Can Harbinger Get New Traits?

[Parpage.9867]

On 12/16/2022 at 10:17 AM, Seuchenherbst.2746 said:

The design space for Harbinger is really huge and it's a shame the devs didn't use more of it, for whatever reason.

You have no idea how sad i was when i realized that they didn't exploit the opportunity to make plaguedoctor-like traits so you could actually heal while throwing elixirs plus the boon share would have been perfect to fulfill that fantasy 😞

[Obtena.7952]

The GM's are a big disappointment ... another set of traits that only works in Shroud and simply proc's a bunch of rather boring effects. Hardly affects how you play or make decisions for using Harb. Just a bunch of "here have some DEEPS" traits. Frankly, the much of the traits feel like this. Low interaction

As for Harb getting new traits ... I doubt it will, or if it does, the conditions aren't really there for it to happen anytime soon. 

Edited January 15, 2023 by Obtena.7952

[Eekasqueak.7850]

The elixir sfx all felt really underwhelming too. 

[Parpage.9867]

7 hours ago, Eekasqueak.7850 said:

The elixir sfx all felt really underwhelming too. 

And the lack of new dialogues when casting something or entering shroud is just sad, i mean i didn't expect much don't get me wrong, but a least a couple of phrases to add a bit of flavor like virtuoso bladesworn etc would have been nice 

[Eekasqueak.7850]

5 minutes ago, Parpage.9867 said:

And the lack of new dialogues when casting something or entering shroud is just sad, i mean i didn't expect much don't get me wrong, but a least a couple of phrases to add a bit of flavor like virtuoso bladesworn etc would have been nice 

Yeah I played harbinger for awhile but the flavor felt so undercooked I just reverted back to playing scourge. 

[Uete.3805]

The main issue trait-wise are the GM traits.

For the strike damage one, I think giving either your elixirs or your shroud the ability to produce minions affected by your other traits would be cool (to give it more of a minionmancer feel).

I think there's space to make the condi one give burning to your harbinger shroud abilities or at least different damaging conditions based on proximity or blight stacks? Like the closest you are to the radioactive gunslinger the more your burn?

Basically, if they changed them I hope those traits become more flavourful than just the (very much needed) mechanic changes we've been asking for since harbi beta.

[ZeftheWicked.3076]

On 12/16/2022 at 9:33 AM, Kodama.6453 said:

Holy kitten, can we please not make mechanist responsible for literally every single problem in the game? Next week you are going to tell us mechanist is the reason your mom divorced your dad.

To be fair, a lot of divorces happen due to  "irreconcilable differences reagarding mechanist in gw2". True story.

Which does not change the fact that harb's grandmaster traits are indeed a choice between one option and two ways to troll yourself and/or others...
 

Edited January 25, 2023 by ZeftheWicked.3076

[Shadowmoon.7986]

I honestly do not understand wtf is going on here.  Harb has probably some of the best and most straight forward traits on all of all the espec trait lines. The only reason power harb is not a thing is because how awful core necro power weapons are, especially the offhands that anet has made worse with their "reworks". 

GM are great trade off with being a quickness source or a dps for your group. Compare this to the reaper traits, where most ignore your stat investment in precision and ferocity, so they are OP if you do not  invest in them, but become UP when you do.  Then you have scourge traits where there is NO dps trait in the Master line.

Couple this with that elixirs are actually good and provide a dps increase to both qharb and dps harb.  Punishment and shout are complete garbage, and provide dps losses for scourge and reaper, there is a reason people think wells are reaper's class mechanic now.

Edited January 26, 2023 by Shadowmoon.7986

[Zex Anthon.8673]

1 hour ago, Shadowmoon.7986 said:

I honestly do not understand wtf is going on here.  Harb has probably some of the best and most straight forward traits on all of all the espec trait lines.

I'm not sure what your definition of "best" is, but harbs traits are some of the most uninteresting, low effort, work I have seen from the dev team. I guess you could consider them "straight forward" since they are brainless cookie cutter mimics of each other. Honestly, this is the type of work I would expect from a high school intern. It is pretty clear that harbinger shroud was the focus of the class, and everything else was an afterthought.

 

[Asum.4960]

4 hours ago, Shadowmoon.7986 said:

I honestly do not understand wtf is going on here.  Harb has probably some of the best and most straight forward traits on all of all the espec trait lines. The only reason power harb is not a thing is because how awful core necro power weapons are, especially the offhands that anet has made worse with their "reworks". 

GM are great trade off with being a quickness source or a dps for your group. Compare this to the reaper traits, where most ignore your stat investment in precision and ferocity, so they are OP if you do not  invest in them, but become UP when you do.  Then you have scourge traits where there is NO dps trait in the Master line.

Couple this with that elixirs are actually good and provide a dps increase to both qharb and dps harb.  Punishment and shout are complete garbage, and provide dps losses for scourge and reaper, there is a reason people think wells are reaper's class mechanic now.

People are complaining about the design, not the efficacy. 

You could make an Elite Spec line that's just passive damage modifiers and or stat gains, and then add Utility skills that are just press button and gain increased outgoing damage - and it would be "some of the best and most straight forward Elite Spec"!?

And that might as well be what Harbinger is, with the Adepts being "gain increased damage based on Blight" (which is in direct design conflict with Blight being consumed via Shroud 3&4 for even more DPS), the Master's being "gain increased Ferocity/Expertise", and the GM's being "gain increased Power/Condition Damage + passively pulse Damage in Shroud", in addition to trash "Utilities" that pretty much just serve as Blight generators for the aforementioned Shroud 3&4. 

 

The only way to design a more uninspired (or "straight forward") Elite Spec would be to just make all Traits and Utilities a passive "do x% increased Damage". 

You really think that's acceptable, just because it would Benchmark well?

 

Are Necro Core Weapons, especially when it comes to Power, trash? Yes, and that's a problem, pretty much since launch. 

Does Necro historically have awful Utility skills, especially for Elite specs? Yes, and I'd love to see a lot of reworks there too. 

Do other Elite Specs (and Core lines) have glaring holes or problems in their Traitlines? Absolutely.

 

But at least there is some game design, some thought and care going on with those. 

If you added Blight to Punishments and then made Shade 3&4 consume Blight for extra Torment, Serpent Siphon wouldn't suddenly became a well designed Utility skill just because it's a DPS boost - just trash with a crutch, much like Harb as a whole.

Frankly, I don't see how someone can put out something like Harbinger and call themselves a game designer, let alone be proud of their work. It's an amalgamation of conflicting and bland design.

Edited January 26, 2023 by Asum.4960

[Yasai.3549]

On 12/16/2022 at 2:43 PM, Zex Anthon.8673 said:

Seems like Mechanist got all the dev time and they had to rush Harbinger. And, they never bothered going back to finish it

I'll tell you what's up with Harbinger: It's basically not even a necro. They just did it cos they think chugging potions and shooting people is cool. Someone at Anet had a cowboy phase but was stuck on Espec development group. I can already imagine the thought process: 

- Heyyyyyy let's like, make a guy with a gunnnn and they down some whiskey and shoot people

- Like a cowboy? 

- Heck yea! Let's give it to Thief! It'll be so cool! Would be something like GUNSLINGERrrrrr or something

- But... Thief already has dual Pistols, what weapon would we give? 

- Errrrr I dunno man, maybe a Scepter? Like a riding crop?

- Hey hate to break it to you but bobby already drafted a Thief Espec concept, but we can use the Scepter

- Sheeeeetttt. aight who's left?

- Necro? But hardly fitting to throw back liquor and shoot peop-

- NO NO ITZA GREAT IDEA! WE CALL THE "DRUNK" MECHANIC BLIGHT AND ERRRR YOU DO LOTZZZ MORE DAMAGE! YOU BASICALLY MUST GET DRUNK TO DO MORE DAMAGE, GENIUS! GENIUS I SAY!

- But sir, that's not even remotely necro-y

- WELL TELL BOBBY TO COOK UP SOME SHEEEEET EXCUSE FOR THE MECHANIC, IDK HOW YOU DO IT DO IT OR YOU WON'T SEE Q4 THIS YEAR

 

[Eekasqueak.7850]

Even if elixirs are mechanically better they have almost no sfx. Punishments could be buffed but they feel visually impressive to use at least and even get a unique voiceline on the ult! I use it for open world scourge for that alone. 

[felincyriac.5981]

Not saying scourge is perfect, but it has some interesting traits that change your gameplay in different ways. Compared to harbinger, you can tell which one had more time and effort put into it.

[Seuchenherbst.2746]

On 1/26/2023 at 6:50 PM, Asum.4960 said:

Frankly, I don't see how someone can put out something like Harbinger and call themselves a game designer, let alone be proud of their work.

I can't imagine anybody being proud of how Harbinger turned out. Still feels like a spec that never left the beta design.

The class still doesn't even have an underwater shroud skill #4!

And the visuals of shroud skill 5 looks like they colored some Firebrand skill green and slapped unfinished stick figures on it. First days I used the skill I honestly thought it was a rendering problem on my part.