The main barrier to fun gameplay is lack of skill transparency

[Ovark.2514]

The game will never be balanced until players are able to see what is killing them and are able to react to it. There is no class that is free from skills like this atm.

Just as an example I will highlight a small sample of skills which need addressed:

 

Mesmer: Shatters need unique animation and cast time (Applies to chrono and mirage too). Distortion needs counterplay. Mantra of Distraction needs cast time. Something something mirage. . .

 

Warrior: Axe 3 and GS 3 are too fast for their damage. Magebane tether is degenerate and should only trigger on full counter success. Breaching Strike and Aura slicer have too similar an animation. Dragon-Slash Boost is still almost impossible to dodge.

 

Ranger: Smokescale still doesn't have the CC animation line up with the actual CC. Smoke Assault (Soulbeast skill) still has no wind-up like the nearly identical Rev sword 3. Unnatural traversal should either have a tiny animation so that players can't maul you through a wall without a tell OR should require LOS. Primal Echos is degenerate. Glyph of Equality should have an animation that can be reacted too.

 

Necro: Staff marks should only be placeable in-front of you. They should also have more unique animations and their symbols should be more obvious. Additionally they should have a visual tell on where they are about to be placed. This would mean that you should no longer be able to change their placement after channeling with snap-to-cursor. Fear ring should have a more obvious indicator as to whether it is from a friendly or enemy player. Dark Path should look more distinct from Staff Auto-attacks. Spinal Shivers needs to have an indicator like Ray of Judgement has on the targeted player. Infusing Terror (Reaper Shroud 3) should have a 1s CD before Terrify can be used so players can react. Scourge shades need their visual tell for when an ability is used be unique to that ability and only show when it is a DAMAGING ability (not something like sand cascade). Shade skills need to have a necromancer cast animation and should no longer trigger the effect from the necro (revert old change basically). Harbinger: Vile Blast needs to have a more distinct animation from the pistol AA. Elixirs need unique animations, or at lease damaging ones distinct from non-damaging ones. Harb shroud 5. . . ya know

 

Guardian: Shield 5 Needs to have an delay/ indicator for the CC portion. Same with Protective Reviver.

 

Engi: Slick Shoes shouldn't CC a player unless that player is Moving INTO the aoe. Completely rework flashbang. Things like Bladeburst and Surprise Shot need to have an animation (even if small). Shield 4 needs to be given the guardian shield 5 treatment I proposed. Shield 5 needs to be reworked somehow to not be so much kitten as it kinda does everything. Acid Bomb needs a ground aoe field. Shouldn't be able to stomp or revive in elixir s.

 

Thief: Steal and swipe need an animation so long as Slight of Hand is equipped (if small). Binding Shadow needs to have a more clear projectile. Something something specter. . .

 

Rev: Vindicatior shouldn't be able to change direction while dodging. Why don't the vindi dodges have different indicators? Why does planar protection do everything?

 

Ele: Earth Shield 4 needs a ground telegraph. Dragon's Tooth should only follow you around for a portion of the animation. Something something Scepter Freshair ele. . . Give Lightning Flash the Unnatural Traversal Treatment I proposed. Something something Arcane skills. Gale and Comet shouldn't be useable while facing away. Also Gale shouldn't be unblockable. Something Something shocking aura.

 

I know this post has a bunch of terminology that keeps changing. When in doubt, what i mean is that some skills should have a ground indicator. Also rune of the trapper needs to be GONE. Also when a foe has stability it should be apparent on their character model instead of just buff bar.

[Terrorhuz.4695]

bruh

[Wild.1705]

What you are proposing is for more reactive gameplay over predictive gameplay. I agree with most of your points; however, there are valid reasons to also include predictive gameplay. As long as one wrong  prediction does not result in a loss.

Good post overall.

[Hotride.2187]

On 12/17/2022 at 10:20 PM, Ovark.2514 said:

Engi: Slick Shoes shouldn't CC a player unless that player is Moving INTO the aoe.

I'm fairly certain you don't get CCed if you stand still and the engi is going to drop it as soon as you are on top of them. Its only bad when you are chasing. The endless blocks and high superspeed uptime are IMO a bigger problem.

Anyway I don't agree with most of what is listed here. The ones I feel more strongly about follow.

Dagger 2 and dagger burst on spb do need better animation differentiation, but dagger burst will be used when someone is blocking so you kinda know what is coming. The range is also different (dagger 2 is 300, dagger burst is 450). Tether is one of the few pulsing reveals, its degenerate that its needed, not that it exists.

For mesmer shatters they'll go off when the mesmer is close to you or has clones close to you.

For ele I have bigger problems with knowing when the unblockable knockdown is coming. That is one of the few casts that I have trouble anticipating since its hard to tell when the ele is going in air unless you are watching their buff bar all the time.

[Gotejjeken.1267]

All that, and no mention of Moa not having any counterplay? 

[Khalisto.5780]

2 hours ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

All that, and no mention of Moa not having any counterplay? 

moa is its own counterplay, most of the time i get moa'd i use 2 dodge use 5 dodge breaking loss and barely take any dmg when it's 1v1

[Master Ketsu.4569]

Only a small handful of skills could use a cast time nerf / increase. But it's true that lots of skills have utterly crap animations and that this hurts the game more than most people realize. GW1 had better counterplay than GW2 simply because it had a cast bar.  Anet decided they would have all skills have better animations than GW1 than a cast bar, which is a great idea in theory but only works in practice if it's actually practiced.

 

 

[CalmTheStorm.2364]

I might not agree with everything here, but there's a lot of good feedback, and a (refreshingly) even-handed assessment. Nice job @Ovark.2514

[Sahne.6950]

15 hours ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

All that, and no mention of Moa not having any counterplay? 

waiting for this one guy to step in and screech that just a single stack of stabi is enough to render moa useless.

[Sahne.6950]

When it comes to skill transparency...i think what would help immensly, is a "Castbar".

If you have your enemy targeted, you can see what skills they are currently casting under their HPbar.

[Spellhunter.9675]

1 hour ago, Sahne.6950 said:

waiting for this one guy to step in and screech that just a single stack of stabi is enough to render moa useless.

Isn't it goes through stab?

[Sahne.6950]

1 minute ago, Spellhunter.9675 said:

Isn't it goes through stab?

not sure.  But this one mesmer main keeps saying it that 😄

Edited December 21, 2022 by Sahne.6950

[Ovark.2514]

16 hours ago, CalmTheStorm.2364 said:

I might not agree with everything here, but there's a lot of good feedback, and a (refreshingly) even-handed assessment. Nice job @Ovark.2514

Thank you! I would have been more careful with my words and had more examples as there are def things I forgot, but it's more about the method/philosophy over anything else.

[SleepyBat.9034]

21 hours ago, Hotride.2187 said:

The endless blocks and high superspeed uptime are IMO a bigger problem.

Considering how much broken stuff was added in Eod, blocks and superspeed is the only thing keeping Holosmith in the meta so it's not a "problem"

I'm against most of these changes anyway.

Edited December 21, 2022 by SleepyBat.9034

[Anonynja.3172]

On 12/17/2022 at 3:20 PM, Ovark.2514 said:

Mesmer: Shatters need unique animation and cast time (Applies to chrono and mirage too). Distortion needs counterplay.

Rev: Vindicatior shouldn't be able to change direction while dodging. Why don't the vindi dodges have different indicators?

I don't agree with everything you said, but you generally raised a bunch of good points. I am curious what you guys mean by "degenerate" in this context. I'll just add a couple thoughts.

Shatters are telegraphed. The clones are starting moving toward the same point at the same time in a straight line. Their back-arching animation is also unique, but I feel like it happens after the damage procs.

Adding cast time to shatters would be a massive nerf to mesmers across all game modes and require many buffs to offset. It would also break the flow of gameplay and make the class much less fun. They are designed to be combined with other skills. I want to say you probably don't play mesmer much if you're suggesting this. Mantras, on the other hand, are at least worth discussion - we have had the same complaint in PvE with Firebrand's no-effort Quickness button on mantras. 

Vindicator's dodge is in an awkward spot since adding the second dodge. Changing direction in mid-air is necessary when you think about the single, long-cast-time dodge it used to have. It's in a gray area right now though because they shortened the dodge animation when they added the second one back in. A lot of us think Vindicator is just not fully designed, and as a rev main I have a lot of thoughts on that for another post.

[Ovark.2514]

1 hour ago, Anonynja.3172 said:

I don't agree with everything you said, but you generally raised a bunch of good points. I am curious what you guys mean by "degenerate" in this context. I'll just add a couple thoughts.

Shatters are telegraphed. The clones are starting moving toward the same point at the same time in a straight line. Their back-arching animation is also unique, but I feel like it happens after the damage procs.

Adding cast time to shatters would be a massive nerf to mesmers across all game modes and require many buffs to offset. It would also break the flow of gameplay and make the class much less fun. They are designed to be combined with other skills. I want to say you probably don't play mesmer much if you're suggesting this. Mantras, on the other hand, are at least worth discussion - we have had the same complaint in PvE with Firebrand's no-effort Quickness button on mantras. 

Vindicator's dodge is in an awkward spot since adding the second dodge. Changing direction in mid-air is necessary when you think about the single, long-cast-time dodge it used to have. It's in a gray area right now though because they shortened the dodge animation when they added the second one back in. A lot of us think Vindicator is just not fully designed, and as a rev main I have a lot of thoughts on that for another post.

What I mean by degenerate is that it's an issue that 1: It's really annoying and un-fun to play against and 2: I don't have a good solution for fixing it other than reworking the trait/skill and 3: In some cases the trait causes players to behave in ways that are actually counter to the intended design. For instance, spellbreakers RUNNING AWAY FROM YOU to use the pull even though the point is to stay as close as possible to the foe.

 

Actually, now that I think about it, a good rework might be to have the tether only trigger on FC so that the warrior has to be close to the foe AND the tether itself no longer pulls foes that exceed the 600 range. Now when a foe exceeds the range, the tether breaks and applies cripple to the target and superspeed to the spellbreaker while removing any movement impairing conditions.

 

And for the mesmer thing. Yes I play mesmer just not a ton. I do find it fun and realize that on paper my shatter suggestion seems like it would kill the fun of the class. Unfortunately, a class based around skill-stacking is inherently unhealthy for competitive modes; and shattering in their current state is just that. Another suggestion might be that the clones only shatter once ALL the clones alive are in range of the foe. That way it's more clear when it the right time to be dodging and such. Surely there are other solutions but that is one that I thought of just now.

 

I wholeheartedly agree that mantras are unhealthy for the game in their current state  and made a post on it ages ago. I think the best solution atm is to give mantras their old channel back but give them an effect that occurs during the channel as well as a powerful effect when it is complete. For example: Mantra of Resolve removes a condition each pulse and then full cleanses you at the end. Mantra of pain deals minor damage and applies vulnerability on tick then has a big 2.0+ damage attack at the end. Mantra of Concentration breaks stun and grants stability on activation, then while it is channeling, all damage and condition damage you take is shared among your illusions (In the case of virtuoso your blades get consumed per second to soak damage). Alternatively with Mantra of Concentration, it could be unique in that it is the only mantra that doesn't require a channel but just pulses stability for the duration. Mantra of Distraction could be first pulse is blind, then single target daze 1s, then 2s stun. That might be too annoying to fight against but at least the enemy has 1s to react to the incoming CC.

 

As for rev stuff I ofc failed to mention Phase Traversal. . .

[Myror.7521]

@Ovark.2514I must say I stop read the Text when you said "warrior gs 3 is too fast" .... its not like this is the only "defence" skill on greatsword and can be Interrupted as well xd! To be fair Axe 3 does rly too hard dmg buut also axe burst skill deal too low dps so over all its fair enough ^^. Need to read the rest to say more to it xd.

 

Edit:

Must say im not sure if i can agree with ya. The tether is needed on burst to pull you enemy back to yourself. Just a good skill and also ezy to counter play. (Dodge burst skills, don't hit the full counter or use stability). The dagger 2 and burst skill might need some other animation true words but not so sure what it would be. For dragon boots well its the only skill that make your burst skill a "more safe hit" but still you can evade it by dodge into your enemy juuust simple as that.

When it comes to mes you could say most of the time the shatter by the mes comes when he is near ya. Also you could see that shattering when all clones are run straight into ya. I would call this a learn to react fast enough issue. Mantra of distortion should have a cast time OR Mark enemy with something and trigger at time left. Distortion is good as it is but to be fair gain it to virtuoso was a pretty stupid idea.

The rangers pet smokescale cc thing annoys me every frcking time lmao! Tho rest of your points are more a QoL thing in my opinion.

All your necro points are also more or less QoL things in my opinion and not that mutch need but would be nice to have.

When it comes to engi.... well yes that blind+daze trait thing finaly need to be adressed by anet. Just simply too mutch blinds in my opinion! Rest of points are hmmm okayish. But idk engi also need strong things to stay at least somehow Alife!

I still dont get why they gain thief swipe....... they meant to nerf thief with it back then but instead they made it better with this unblockable thing in it...... maybe give it 300 more range and remove the unblockable path oooor simply buff backstab and remove the unblockable path .... something like this would help thief alot more!

I cant say anything to ele never played that class eather

I do not say anything to your guardian point since i like this skill as it is soll xd.

Edited December 21, 2022 by Pati.2438

[Hotride.2187]

11 hours ago, Sahne.6950 said:

When it comes to skill transparency...i think what would help immensly, is a "Castbar".

If you have your enemy targeted, you can see what skills they are currently casting under their HPbar.

I think that works for longer casts, not for 0.5 sec or so abilities. A clear animation is IMO easier to react to.

[Ovark.2514]

24 minutes ago, Pati.2438 said:

@Ovark.2514I must say I stop read the Text when you said "warrior gs 3 is too fast" .... its not like this is the only "defence" skill on greatsword and can be Interrupted as well xd! To be fair Axe 3 does rly too hard dmg buut also axe burst skill deal too low dps so over all its fair enough ^^. Need to read the rest to say more to it xd

Like I suggested in my gw2 combat system overhaul project, the fix for GS3 would be to make it a skill which has an optional channel sooo: No channel is low damage and evasion but high channel is high damage and evasion. Problem solved.

[freakcoco.4287]

What I reading is "Nerf all, problem solved"