Progression systeme

[Artemis.8034]

On 1/17/2023 at 4:42 AM, Gehenna.3625 said:

To be honest, just because something comes back regularly on these forums, doesn't mean that "many" players find this important. Also that doesn't automatically mean it's worth discussing. All in all, there are a lot of topics here that I don't find worthy of discussion, but you know, it's always so enticing to give one's opinion on something, worthy or not. 😉

You mean because you have it others must not get it . 🥱 It is totally worth discussing because numbers dont lie , people are not interested in wvw/ raiding. The numbers for legendary armor show that. There is nothing wrong with giving OW players a set to strive for in their environment. The truly entitled are the ones that want to lock the unwashed masses from getting it at all.  

[Linken.6345]

9 minutes ago, Artemis.8034 said:

You mean because you have it others must not get it . 🥱 It is totally worth discussing because numbers dont lie , people are not interested in wvw/ raiding. The numbers for legendary armor show that. There is nothing wrong with giving OW players a set to strive for in their environment. The truly entitled are the ones that want to lock the unwashed masses from getting it at all.  

Then play with exotic or the odd ascended box you get in open world and be happy.

It is all scaled to people in miss matched level up gear to begin with only changed in the last EoD meta.

And pretty sure people could do that with the same gear if they did not eat every big red aoe of death mechanic of said fight and had 10 stacks of the buff pre events give.

[Sobx.1758]

On 1/16/2023 at 1:23 PM, Astralporing.1957 said:

And yet i haven't seen many threads about legendary weapons being too grindy. Curious that. Almost like people didn't really have too many issues with legendary gear requiring a lot of effort, grind and cost to get.

They can literally "credit card" them, so much for "a lot of effort, grind and cost".

1 hour ago, Artemis.8034 said:

You mean because you have it others must not get it . 🥱 It is totally worth discussing because numbers dont lie , people are not interested in wvw/ raiding. The numbers for legendary armor show that. There is nothing wrong with giving OW players a set to strive for in their environment. The truly entitled are the ones that want to lock the unwashed masses from getting it at all.  

Nobody is locked from getting any of them, but that sure is a convenient narrative to draw. "I don't want to play more of the game for more optional rewards, so it means I'm locked out of them". No, it doesn't. It just means you don't want to play more of the game and luckily you're free to keep playing it like you're playing right now, because lack of those optional rewards doesn't go against anything you're doing.

Edited January 19, 2023 by Sobx.1758

[Astralporing.1957]

4 hours ago, Sobx.1758 said:

They can literally "credit card" them, so much for "a lot of effort, grind and cost".

So, you say people do not complain because they "credit card" them? Do you really think that most players obtain their legendaries this way? Besides, if that was really the case, how do you explain lack of complains about gen 2.0 weapons which cannot be obtained that way?

You can also compare with Aurora, Vision, Transcendence, Conflux, and legendary backpacks. None of which, again, can be bought. It is a fact that, for some reason or another, it's specifically armor (and pretty much armor alone) out of all legendaries that gets complained about. And that it has nothing to do with it not being purchasable on TP.

[vares.8457]

7 hours ago, Artemis.8034 said:

There is nothing wrong with giving OW players a set to strive for in their environment.

There are so many reasons against an open world legendary armor. It would be very wrong and would hurt the game. Besides, the PvE legendary already has a lot of open world components 
To become full legendary you should play a variety of content. Open World already is the area of the game where you can get the most legendaries. But armor should never be obtained by only playing open world. 

[Astralporing.1957]

1 hour ago, vares.8457 said:

There are so many reasons against an open world legendary armor. It would be very wrong and would hurt the game.

Why exactly is that?

1 hour ago, vares.8457 said:

Besides, the PvE legendary already has a lot of open world components 
To become full legendary you should play a variety of content. Open World already is the area of the game where you can get the most legendaries. But armor should never be obtained by only playing open world. 

Any reasons for that? And does that mean that if it follows the legendary weapons' acquisition style (gift of battle, dungeon tokens) it will be fine, as it will no longer be only OW?

Edited January 19, 2023 by Astralporing.1957

[Ashen.2907]

9 hours ago, Artemis.8034 said:

The truly entitled are the ones that want to lock the unwashed masses from getting it at all

This might be true if there were any players wanting to lock others out of getting it. But there aren't so it is a fabrication.

[soul.9651]

9 hours ago, Artemis.8034 said:

You mean because you have it others must not get it . 🥱 It is totally worth discussing because numbers dont lie , people are not interested in wvw/ raiding. The numbers for legendary armor show that. There is nothing wrong with giving OW players a set to strive for in their environment. The truly entitled are the ones that want to lock the unwashed masses from getting it at all.  

Yeah even better lets just drop legendary armor straight to the gem store. I bet thats what most OW players would want :'). You are the ones who are beeing entitled to get everything for no reason or the effort.

[Luthan.5236]

There is enough stuff to do in the game. People complaining ... first should check whether they already completed all available achievements or not. (Most do still have stuff left to do I guess. Even the long-time players.)

Talking about "having something to grind" then calling it fun ... is the weirdest thing I've ever seen. People dislike grind. They even complain for smaller stuff like the currency needed for Skyscale - which is not much. The only people that like to grind are Asians - afaik. That is why the asian grind games are popular there.

We also have tons of games with a similar setup in the west. People could just play WoW or something like that.  Making changes here would put GW2 into competition with those other games that already have their fanbase ... while losing the current main target audience (and not gaining players enough on the other end) ...

better to stay unique here. The target audience here usually are older people - not the typical teenager that likes to grind 24/7 and raid countlessly the same stuff over and over until they get a lucky drop - to go to be able to do the next raid. And the main selling point is ... that you can access most stuff quickly.

Imagine them adding such a system. Now when a new player disliking it sees this and wants to play the latest content but he first has to grind content X to get gear good enough to grind content Y ... to then be able to play content Z - might scare way to be forced to grind the same older stuff over and over. Now you are more free to play what you like - out of the tons of maps and different types of content where it is not only PvP/WvW and PvE but PvE coming with lots of achievements and different stuff. (Also stuff like JPs.)

Edited January 19, 2023 by Luthan.5236

[Astralporing.1957]

58 minutes ago, Ashen.2907 said:

This might be true if there were any players wanting to lock others out of getting it. But there aren't so it is a fabrication.

While noone might be trying (or wanting) to lock out any individual players out of obtaining legendary armor, there's definitely quite a lot of those that are arguing about restricting it from whole groups of players just on the basis of their preferred playstyle. And insisiting that legendary armor has to remain a prestige item, with extremely narrow acquisition methods.

They may not want to lock all others out, but they definitely want to lock most people out.

[vares.8457]

40 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

While noone might be trying (or wanting) to lock out any individual players out of obtaining legendary armor, there's definitely quite a lot of those that are arguing about restricting it from whole groups of players just on the basis of their preferred playstyle. And insisiting that legendary armor has to remain a prestige item, with extremely narrow acquisition methods.

They may not want to lock all others out, but they definitely want to lock most people out.

That is complete nonsense. No one here wants to prevent players from doing PvE, WvW or PvP. 
Anet has (correctly) decided that only doing open world doesn’t qualify to get legendary armor. 

Edited January 19, 2023 by vares.8457

[Gehenna.3625]

11 hours ago, Artemis.8034 said:

You mean because you have it others must not get it . 🥱 It is totally worth discussing because numbers dont lie , people are not interested in wvw/ raiding. The numbers for legendary armor show that. There is nothing wrong with giving OW players a set to strive for in their environment. The truly entitled are the ones that want to lock the unwashed masses from getting it at all.  

I'm just pointing out a logic error. Didn't say this topic was or wasn't worth discussing.

Also, if you knew me and my posting history, you'd eat your comments because I've always been a proponent of OW legendary armor sets ever since the legendary armory came out. I don't see why people would have to spend an enormous amount of time in content that they don't enjoy.

I play a lot of WvW, but when I see the amount of afk'ers in WvW that are just doing the bare minimum to keep their participation clock going, I think that's detrimental to the WvW mode. So just for that reason alone I would want OW versions of legendary armor sets.

Edited January 19, 2023 by Gehenna.3625

[Astralporing.1957]

4 minutes ago, vares.8457 said:

That is complete nonsense. No one here wants to prevent players from doing PvE, WvW or PvP. 

Sure. They do want to limit legendary armor acquisition only to players that play a very small part of the game however.

4 minutes ago, vares.8457 said:

Anet has (correctly) decided that only doing open world doesn’t qualify to get legendary armor. 

Untrue. A ton of other things (like strikes, fractals, dungeons, etc) doesn't qualify either. It's the exactly opposite - legendary armor is restricted only to those that play raids, WvW and SPvP. Content which is played only by small minority of players. And i mean in total, taken together. Most players do not play any of those (or, if do, do it only occasionally and in very low amounts, way below the level  of commitment necessary to have a reasonable chance of obtaining the armor).

[vares.8457]

3 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Sure. They do want to limit legendary armor acquisition only to players that play a very small part of the game however.

Untrue. A ton of other things (like strikes, fractals, dungeons, etc) doesn't qualify either. It's the exactly opposite - legendary armor is restricted only to those that play raids, WvW and SPvP. Content which is played only by small minority of players. And i mean in total, taken together. Most players do not play any of those (or, if do, do it only occasionally and in very low amounts, way below the level  of commitment necessary to have a reasonable chance of obtaining the armor).

If they want the armor they can play the content. No one is restricted from playing it. There is absolutely no reason for an open world legendary armor. Now with the emboldened mode even open world players can do raids just fine and get the armor. 

Edited January 19, 2023 by vares.8457

[Astralporing.1957]

1 minute ago, vares.8457 said:

If they want the armor they can play the content. No one is restricted from playing it.

So, you do admit that acquisition of legendary armor is restricted only to those that play Raids, WvW and SPvP (so, a small minority content).

1 minute ago, vares.8457 said:

There is absolutely no reason for an open world legendary armor. 

And that you want to lock it out from a huge majority of GW2's players.

[Gehenna.3625]

1 hour ago, soul.9651 said:

Yeah even better lets just drop legendary armor straight to the gem store. I bet thats what most OW players would want :'). You are the ones who are beeing entitled to get everything for no reason or the effort.

This is just such a non-argument. Look at Vision or Aurora. They're mainly OW based. So my point is that OW doesn't equate to low effort. Compared to those Conflux is low effort imo. This is just your bias against OW players talking. 

2 minutes ago, vares.8457 said:

If they want the armor they can play the content. No one is restricted from playing it. There is absolutely no reason for an open world legendary armor. 

As a WvW player, I find those players coming there afk'ing for months and just doing the bare minimum to keep their timers going detrimental to the WvW mode. You see, all those hours they spend in WvW do count towards the server status and is one of the reasons why there are population imbalances.

And I don't see raiders or pvp'ers welcoming people that just afk or not participate seriously. You see I think the discussion is sort of backwards. As you say no one is restricted from playing those modes, but do those modes benefit from such players?

So from that point of view there absolutely is a reason for OW legendary armor.

 

[The Boz.2038]

2 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

So, you do admit that acquisition of legendary armor is restricted only to those that play Raids, WvW and SPvP (so, a small minority content).

And that you want to lock it out from a huge majority of GW2's players.

People who disagree with your daft idea aren't "locking people out", for the umpteenth time.

[vares.8457]

2 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

So, you do admit that acquisition of legendary armor is restricted only to those that play Raids, WvW and SPvP (so, a small minority content).

And that you want to lock it out from a huge majority of GW2's players.

Everyone can play raids, WvW or PvP. Legendary armor is a great motivation to play a variety of content the game has to offer. 
But of course there are people who want everything handed to them for free. If you want the armor do what is required, you are not better than the rest of us who did just that. 

[soul.9651]

6 minutes ago, Gehenna.3625 said:

This is just such a non-argument. Look at Vision or Aurora. They're mainly OW based. So my point is that OW doesn't equate to low effort. Compared to those Conflux is low effort imo. This is just your bias against OW players talking. 

 

Problem is that they do wanna it to be low effort.... Even if they had OW option they would still be crying untill anet would give them armors almost for free

Hell people these days even complain how they cant do jumping puzzles.. this is the level where OW people are..

Edited January 19, 2023 by soul.9651

[Astralporing.1957]

Just now, soul.9651 said:

Problem is that they do wanna it to be low effort.... Even if they had OW option they would still be crying untill anet would give them armors almost for free

Again, there's absolutely no basis for that claim. That's just strawman that was made up by some people that think only their playstyle is "worthy".

[vares.8457]

3 minutes ago, soul.9651 said:

Problem is that they do wanna it to be low effort.... Even if they had OW option they would still be crying untill anet would give them armors almost for free

Absolutely. We saw it with the DE meta, skyscale, Aurora and Vision. Open world only players are just not the right audience for stuff like that. You wouldn’t sell alcohol to a child. 

Edited January 19, 2023 by vares.8457

[The Boz.2038]

3 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Again, there's absolutely no basis for that claim. That's just strawman that was made up by some people that think only their playstyle is "worthy".

No, you are having amnesia again. Did you see a doctor about that?

This is not the first time the "ow leggy armor" topic rears its ugly head around these parts.
And every time, the gimme crowd boils down to "but cheaper, yeah".

[Gehenna.3625]

3 minutes ago, soul.9651 said:

Problem is that they do wanna it to be low effort.... Even if they had OW option they would still be crying untill anet would give them armors almost for free

Hell people these days even complain how they cant do jumping puzzles.. this is the level where OW people are..

Aside from this being a completely sweeping generalization (which confirms that you're biased), just because SOME people complain about it doesn't mean it's a bad idea. People also complain about other things and Anet doesn't do it. 

So for me it's fair to implement OW legendary armor, as long as it's not too easy. And then Anet can ignore the complaints from those people who complain about it being too hard. 

3 minutes ago, vares.8457 said:

Absolutely. We saw it with the DE meta, skyscale, Aurora and Vision. Open world players are just not the right audience for stuff like that. 

Also a sweeping generalization. Besides, Skyscale, Aurora and Vision exist and therefore your argument is invalid. Just because people complain about it doesn't mean a) that they represent all OW players and b) that their complaints are valid.

[soul.9651]

11 minutes ago, Gehenna.3625 said:

Aside from this being a completely sweeping generalization (which confirms that you're biased), just because SOME people complain about it doesn't mean it's a bad idea. People also complain about other things and Anet doesn't do it. 

So for me it's fair to implement OW legendary armor, as long as it's not too easy. And then Anet can ignore the complaints from those people who complain about it being too hard. 

Also a sweeping generalization. Besides, Skyscale, Aurora and Vision exist and therefore your argument is invalid. Just because people complain about it doesn't mean a) that they represent all OW players and b) that their complaints are valid.

I mean i can turn this around and say that you yourself are biased thinking that its the majority of people who wanna OW armors even if they "not too easy to get" and its a"good idea" to make OW option. What if you are generelazing things yourself? 

Edited January 19, 2023 by soul.9651

[Sobx.1758]

4 hours ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

While noone might be trying (or wanting) to lock out any individual players out of obtaining legendary armor, there's definitely quite a lot of those that are arguing about restricting it from whole groups of players just on the basis of their preferred playstyle. And insisiting that legendary armor has to remain a prestige item, with extremely narrow acquisition methods.

They may not want to lock all others out, but they definitely want to lock most people out.

Nope, nobody is locked out of anything here. It also has nothing to do with "but those players want it for themselves because it fits their preferred playstyle!". My opinion about it was exactly the same when I wasn't raiding and I wasn't interested in getting any legendary item since I understood I'm perfectly fine playing without them. So you're trying to draw a false narrative here.

3 hours ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Again, there's absolutely no basis for that claim.

Considering the thread/s proposing ridiculously easy ways to obtain it (equivalent of "just tag world bosses for few weeks" and "just park alts on the jumping puzzle AND make it tradable/sellable anyways"), there absolutely is basis for that claim. And you know it, because you were in those threads. On the other hand, if people don't have issues with giving some effort, just play more of the content game offers. Nobody is locked from anything here.

Edited January 19, 2023 by Sobx.1758