earthen rush and burning speed changes

[Zhaid Zhem.6508]

How do you think casual players will handle more APM with de-target/targetting ?

[Dadnir.5038]

42 minutes ago, Edu.6984 said:

 

I disagree and think you are the one wrong here. Pve is not just about the "high end" 1%. People that are so high end you can detarget, use the skill and target again to get the full movement. For the casual player, which is the vast majority of the game, stopping at the enemy make the skill simpler and easier to use. Specially in fractals, where there is a lot more platform jumping, this change will avoid people dashing and falling to death when using the skill. The casual pve player doesn't even have a dps meter and won't possibly notice losing some dmg, but they will notice that they don't have to fear dashing to their death.

 

While they have used splits for cooldowns, durations, dmg, mostly numbers only changes, etc, you don't see them using complete different animation and movement for different game modes. It would be really weird for a skill to do a dash in wvw and stop at target in other game modes.

That's ridiculous. It's like saying that the change have WvW in mind because 99.9999999% playing in WvW have experienced at least once going down a cliff due to movement skills. And the same goes for most sPvP players in skyhammer for example.

It is weird for a skill to hit a different number of target based on the gamemode, yet there is at least one that do that. It is weird for skills to apply different boons/conditions based on the gamemode yet there are some that do that. We even have behavior splits based on specializations nowadays. What's so different about having a skill that stop it's move at the target? It isn't a different animation, they've just set the end point of the movement at the target.

I just think you're deluding yourself into thinking that you can blame PvE for a change. As a matter of fact, PvP player have a lot more sway on balance than PvE players do since they are incredibly more vocal with their never ending stream of complains. I can even add that the recent complains and wishes about elementalist come at 100% from the competitive modes where elementalist have been perceived as "too strong" since the scepter rework. (Just looking at the context in which elementalist have been these last few months is enough to doubt that any change have been done with solely PvE in mind. No PvE meta build even used dagger in main hand anyway)

[Edu.6984]

 

29 minutes ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

That's ridiculous. It's like saying that the change have WvW in mind because 99.9999999% playing in WvW have experienced at least once going down a cliff due to movement skills. And the same goes for most sPvP players in skyhammer for example.

 

1) If the change was about dmg and not about mobility and ease of use, then they would just nerf the dmg numbers/coefficients.

 

2) In wvw falling is not as problematic, because you can glide in your territory. In spvp Skyhammer is not much popular and they also redesigned the map ages ago to avoid the knockback fiesta. In instanced PvE you have no gliding and a lot more platforms and positioning.

 

32 minutes ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

It is weird for a skill to hit a different number of target based on the gamemode, yet there is at least one that do that. It is weird for skills to apply different boons/conditions based on the gamemode yet there are some that do that. We even have behavior splits based on specializations nowadays. What's so different about having a skill that stop it's move at the target? It isn't a different animation, they've just set the end point of the movement at the target.

 

Changing the way the character move is a different level than all the other changes.

 

 

34 minutes ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

As a matter of fact, PvP player have a lot more sway on balance than PvE players do since they are incredibly more vocal with their never ending stream of complains.

You are showing your bias towards PvE players. I would say that the PvE, specially the instanced PvE community is a lot more vocal, hence why we have so many PvE only changes and so many dmg changes on skills. They even did a complete rework on banners, spirits and other unique effects just so it helps with raid comps been more diverse.

 

38 minutes ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

No PvE meta build even used dagger in main hand anyway

 

That just corroborates my point, they are helping underused weapons in pve. Why would they make better something that is already meta?

[Elrey.5472]

I am sad to see this ele change hasn't been reverted in today's patch.

[RaveOnYou.2819]

On 2/28/2023 at 11:53 PM, Elrey.5472 said:

I am sad to see this ele change hasn't been reverted in today's patch.

yeah its annoying, i will keep this thread live until change 🙂

[StonyStevenson.6130]

No need for me to repeat all the reasons why this change is bad, its all been said by people above me. Just giving my +1 on the topic in the hopes anet notices and reverts the change back or at least makes it toggleable with melee assist setting. 

Edited March 3, 2023 by StonyStevenson.6130

[Zhaid Zhem.6508]

Please ANET, revert this change. It's bad.

[Uthrax.4975]

CHANGE IT BACK PLEASE. LAME LAME LAME.

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

Now don't be mad, but it might have been me.  I don't remember ever suggesting a change, but I do remember commenting on how Ele dagger skills' forced movement would made structured PVE harder.  It was part of my complaints, particularly about thief, about how raid and fractal design was largely antithetical to the forced movement skills on our weapon sets.  Now, for some reason, Anet really likes to go with my suggestions and try to fix the problems I point out (See: Willbender flames no longer overwriting).  I don't know anyone else saying it, so there's a good chance it was me.

Although I wouldn't have expected the skills Earthen Rush and Burning Speed to be changed to reduce their damage against a targeted enemy.  That... seems like a drastic oversight and unintentional.  I'm expecting something like Burning Speed to get it's line dash extended to it's full distance while the player actually stops in place, or something else to that effect.  Maybe not now, because that sounds complicated to code, but sometime in the near future.  

Edited March 7, 2023 by Blood Red Arachnid.2493

[Khaldris.9026]

10 hours ago, Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:

...about how raid and fractal design was largely antithetical to the forced movement skills on our weapon sets.

See, I almost agree with this on any class other than Elementalist. A single weapon skill (or two, in this case) is less of our total 'power budget' for any given weapon combination if only because we have 4 sets of weapon skills to work with. I daresay that it's not out of the imagination to make players ask themselves "If I use this skill, will it put me in a bad situation?" Sure, you might be giving up some DPS, but 90% DPS is better than 0% while you're lying on the floor (insert down-state Elementalist joke here).

TL;DR - If using a skill will kill you, and you still press it: that is not a designer issue, it's a player skill issue.

Hells, Scepter is right there if you want a bit more leeway on your damage options. (sidenote: I really wish they'd just full-on rework Staff to make it feel less slow)

Also adding my bump in solidarity with wanting this reverted.

Edited March 7, 2023 by Khaldris.9026

[Zhaid Zhem.6508]

Still no revert on dagger.

I guess I won't play ele in wvw for an other month.

[Barabbas.8715]

Thanks for sucking all the fun out of D/D, Anet. Another abysmal change that helps literally no one because experienced D/D players weren't dashing into hazard areas in PVE anyway, they were using it to avoid danger. Hurry up and revert this already, yall know it sucks.

[RaveOnYou.2819]

at least put some decent detarget key into game. esc is not proper detarget button, or clicking on empty space is also not good way of detargeting enemy.

[Damico.2695]

34 minutes ago, RaveOnYou.2819 said:

at least put some decent detarget key into game. esc is not proper detarget button, or clicking on empty space is also not good way of detargeting enemy.

Still doesn't solve the problem for anyone using action camera.

 

I'd much rather have the ability to tap the skill again to stop early if I choose, or as someone else suggested, make the skills AoE ground target abilities. 

[Uthrax.4975]

12 hours ago, Damico.2695 said:

Still doesn't solve the problem for anyone using action camera.

 

I'd much rather have the ability to tap the skill again to stop early if I choose, or as someone else suggested, make the skills AoE ground target abilities. 

ANet could just put a checkbox on the skill : check on if you want to jump to target, check off if you want to jump through.

 

Done.

[Zelda The Mighty.5369]

Yep, still sucks to play dagger in WvW. Using dagger 3 to escape is just muscle memory for me. I have just resigned myself to expecting to die when using dagger 3.

[Zelda The Mighty.5369]

12 hours ago, Uthrax.4975 said:

ANet could just put a checkbox on the skill : check on if you want to jump to target, check off if you want to jump through.

 

Done.

We already have that checkbox - it’s called melee attack assist.

[Uthrax.4975]

13 hours ago, Zelda The Mighty.5369 said:

We already have that checkbox - it’s called melee attack assist.

Tested, doesn't make a difference. Thanks for the suggestion though.

[Barabbas.8715]

Still mad. Fix this Anet. Revert this crap. You know it sucks. Don't punish us because your 10-year-old niece Earthen Rushed into Baltahzaar's flame scorcher and died in a raid.

Edited March 18, 2023 by Barabbas.8715

[RaveOnYou.2819]

i cant believe how anet havent rework these skills yet. five obvious reason why they are bad;

1) you have to untarget for meaningfull use. indeed these skills are more than just damage for competitive game modes, evade, run away, mislead, creating combo field etc.

2) game has no untarget key!!!!!

3) no!!! clicking empty space or esc is not exactly untarget. in actual fight sometimes there will be no free space to press mouse and esc is buggy, sometimes works sometimes not, when it worked it usually send player to quit menu lmfo.

4) stoping animation is terrible, i played all classes in this game, i think there is no worse animation than this.

5) ele is already buttonmash class, dont bring more complexity, people playing this skill for years in same manner then it suddenly changed.

6) its horrible for action camera users.

Edited March 25, 2023 by RaveOnYou.2819
adding new bullets

[Extacy.6192]

The game has a detarget keybind. It is called "lock autotarget" under the target keybind section.

I use this daily. Also for things like f1 longbow berserker in wvw.

Since at least April 2020 when i started playing again.

So it just takes a bit of additional micro managment and muscle memory. This way you can have both, depending on the situation.

If you are extra lazy, just write a flexible macro via autohotkey or something like that... not that i would recommend it... it is against the TOS

[Damico.2695]

I'd prefer the whole change just be reverted. 

Edited March 28, 2023 by Damico.2695

[Zhaid Zhem.6508]

Sad to see the worst change since years is not picked up by devs and forgotten by players.
I'm a bit disappointed, for quite some time I don't play long sessions anymore and when I see how d/d sucks in wvw particulary it kills me + ragequit.

[Barabbas.8715]

Anet working overtime to make sure we hate their game.

[Coldtart.4785]

If you wanted these skills to be more controlled in where they land why not make them ground targeted like with Specter's leap? Moving through a target with burning speed has been a core part of dagger ele gameplay since day 1.