Elementalist QoLs

[Kreator.3701]

Hello o/

 

First of all, I'm super excited for ele changes and where it's going!

 

Here is some stuff I was hoping to see in this balance, hope to see it in a near future (PvE):

-Glyph of Lesser Elementals: spending 2 minutes to summon 3 eles to finally mount up and loose all of them is not fun
-Jade Sphere: Add up an energy bar bigger than what we have right now

-Catalyst's hammer 3: Make grand finale only able to cast when all 4 are charged up

 

I would also add this:
-Steam Surge + Mud Slide (D/D weaver) are charges like Burning Speed and Earthen Rush, will they have the same changes?

 

Anet made really great changes, we still need more QoLs rather than numbers

 

 

Edited February 5, 2023 by Kreator.3701

[Jski.6180]

I think they need to excented this "QOL" update to dash skills to all of there Whirlwind skills war FGS etc.. lets make them stop when they hit there target. They need to do this for all dash skills once they hit a target they should stop dead. So Ride the lighting should stop too if any things gets in its way.

BUT lets make sure they should be balanced as if ppl want pve balancing in there spvp and wvw because though players LOVE pve balancing in there pvp.

[the krytan assassin.9235]

7 hours ago, Kreator.3701 said:

Glyph of Lesser Elementals: spending 2 minutes to summon 3 eles to finally mount up and loose all of them is not fun

-Catalyst's hammer 3: Make grand finale only able to cast when all 4 are charged up

The current state of GoLE is kinda weird right now. Its the highest dmge utility in the game atm (especially on condi) and it simply adds nothing to the game (in instanced PvE atleast). No special skill, no extra burst/combo and they're invulnerable to most of the damage. I'd personally rather see the skill being removed out of the game, although i understand some people like to play a minion master. If they improve the QoL on GoLE they simply need to do a complete overhaul on the skill. I really dislike the idea of forcing a 'press once and forget about it' utility on the ele. 

 

Also i disagree on the cata change. Forcing all 4 attunements will make it really awkward to get back into a proper rotation if you fall out of it for whatever reason. This also wouldn't solve the issue of accidentally double pressing on the last attunement (and regaining your energy w/o the orbs flying around simply takes forever). Just put a 1/2 sec cd on the flipover and all problems should be solved. 

[Fueki.4753]

Arenanet needs to make the lesser Elementals permanent until killed and respawn after mounting. The same goes for the Elite Elementals.

If Necromancers are allowed to have a permanent circus that respawns after mounting, Elementalist should have the same.

Edited February 6, 2023 by Fueki.4753

[PolarBear.3961]

Permanent elementals with flipover skills like necro minions have PLEASE !

[Zhaid Zhem.6508]

On 2/5/2023 at 3:18 PM, Kreator.3701 said:

Here is some stuff I was hoping to see in this balance, hope to see it in a near future (PvE):

[...]

-Catalyst's hammer 3: Make grand finale only able to cast when all 4 are charged up

 

Pve catalyst is already jailed into only one rotation, no matter your build or gear. Make grand finale only available with all 4 "orbs" is already "the rotation" and won't really help for adaptability and diversity.
If it was up to me, I would just delete this boring mechanic on #3; but I guess granting different effects based on your current element (and not "all projectiles") and different CD depending on the numbers of projectiles would be a better step forward. (or bonus, or something ("the less you have projectile, the faster it recharges or the stronger the conditions", smthing like that))

Edited February 6, 2023 by Zhaid Zhem.6508

[NonNonBiyori.1428]

On 2/5/2023 at 8:18 AM, Kreator.3701 said:

Hello o/

 

First of all, I'm super excited for ele changes and where it's going!

 

Here is some stuff I was hoping to see in this balance, hope to see it in a near future (PvE):

 

-Catalyst's hammer 3: Make grand finale only able to cast when all 4 are charged up

 

 

 

I would really love this, I'm constantly fighting with hammer 3 on it's self activation, I even bought a new mouse because I figured that was the issue. People are telling me different things are the issue, but it makes me furious to fight with when im doing rotations. I don't see why it doesn't work like weave self..

Edited February 11, 2023 by steve.2945

[Bladestrom.6425]

On 2/6/2023 at 2:45 PM, Fueki.4753 said:

Arenanet needs to make the lesser Elementals permanent until killed and respawn after mounting. The same goes for the Elite Elementals.

If Necromancers are allowed to have a permanent circus that respawns after mounting, Elementalist should have the same.

 

Most definitely, it makes them useless in wvw and there is absolutely no reason for it since you can portal with them, suspect a bug,

 

Edited February 12, 2023 by vesica tempestas.1563

[Kodama.6453]

On 2/6/2023 at 3:45 PM, Fueki.4753 said:

Arenanet needs to make the lesser Elementals permanent until killed and respawn after mounting. The same goes for the Elite Elementals.

If Necromancers are allowed to have a permanent circus that respawns after mounting, Elementalist should have the same.

If elementals become permanent, then they have to limit how many elementals you can summon with that ability. Probably capping at 3 elementals or such.

Almost all necromancer minion skills are limited to just summon 1 minion (exceptions being bone minions, which summons 2 weak minions and "Rise!", which summons multiple but also with limited duration). Meanwhile the glyph can summon multiple elementals just by spamming that one skill off cooldown.

[zeyeti.8347]

I would love to see a same kind of greater elemental as the flesh golem : permanent .

22 minutes ago, Kodama.6453 said:

Almost all necromancer minion skills are limited to just summon 1 minion (exceptions being bone minions, which summons 2 weak minions and "Rise!", which summons multiple but also with limited duration). Meanwhile the glyph can summon multiple elementals just by spamming that one skill off cooldown.

But for ele you have to wait i think like 2 minutes to get full potential of the summons , not talking about mounting ... get rids of all your minions , even the elite . But yes , minions for necro are just fancy , not really usefull .

[Kodama.6453]

1 hour ago, zeyeti.8347 said:

I would love to see a same kind of greater elemental as the flesh golem : permanent .

But for ele you have to wait i think like 2 minutes to get full potential of the summons , not talking about mounting ... get rids of all your minions , even the elite . But yes , minions for necro are just fancy , not really usefull .

I am not opposed to elementals being permanent, I am just pointing out that if they make them permanent, then they have to put a limit on how many you can summon with the glyph. Otherwise we end up with elementalist running around with 30 elementals with enough preparation time, lol. Imagine a dragon's end run, which has quite alot of preparations time, and elementalists are flooding the platform with their elemental armies.

If they become permanent, they should probably limit the glyph to just be able to summon 3 elementals at once and that's it.

[Fueki.4753]

1 minute ago, Kodama.6453 said:

I am not opposed to elementals being permanent, I am just pointing out that if they make them permanent, then they have to put a limit on how many you can summon with the glyph. Otherwise we end up with elementalist running around with 30 elementals with enough preparation time, lol. Imagine a dragon's end run, which has quite alot of preparations time, and elementalists are flooding the platform with their elemental armies.

If they become permanent, they should probably limit the glyph to just be able to summon 3 elementals at once and that's it.

The Glyph is intended for a maximum of three Elementals anyway, so that's fine.

[Kodama.6453]

3 minutes ago, Fueki.4753 said:

The Glyph is intended for a maximum of three Elementals anyway, so that's fine.

Wiki states that it is currently possible to maintain up to five elementals with it. Probably with shenanigans involving the cooldown reduction trait and alacrity.

I personally would make it hard coded that you can just have 3, tho, if they really become permanent. Because maintaining these elementals also becomes way easier than maintaining 5 with the current version.

[Fueki.4753]

5 minutes ago, Kodama.6453 said:

Wiki states that it is currently possible to maintain up to five elementals with it. Probably with shenanigans involving the cooldown reduction trait and alacrity.

I personally would make it hard coded that you can just have 3, tho, if they really become permanent. Because maintaining these elementals also becomes way easier than maintaining 5 with the current version.

While it's possible to have four with the trait and possibly even five with Alacrity, the ability itself with 40 seconds of cooldown and a duration of 120 seconds definitely looks like three are the intended maximum number of Elementals.

[the krytan assassin.9235]

51 minutes ago, Kodama.6453 said:

Wiki states that it is currently possible to maintain up to five elementals with it. Probably with shenanigans involving the cooldown reduction trait and alacrity.

I personally would make it hard coded that you can just have 3, tho, if they really become permanent. Because maintaining these elementals also becomes way easier than maintaining 5 with the current version.

3 elementals would make it a standard pick for condi & power builds and would probably replace scholar runes for flame Legion in power Weaver. 

The elementals have quite powerful abilities (flame burst, frozen ground, windborne speed & weakness on hit) and were originally designed to be a single temporary Minion with a big cd at the end. 

Especially lesser fire elemental is problematic since flame burst is effected by the condi duration and condi dmge of the player. 

Even with 2 elementals up and no need to refresh the skill it would still probably be the standard pick for condi & power builds. The effects of the abilities either need to be nerfed by atleast 50% (which would make their design kinda dull) or they need to reduce the max capacity all the way to 1 (and maybe give them flipover skills. Sure you wont be able to run around with 5 minions anymore, but it would make it alot easier to balance and open up the possibility with more reactive gameplay with flipover skills. 

[Yasai.3549]

On 2/5/2023 at 10:18 PM, Kreator.3701 said:

Glyph of Lesser Elementals: spending 2 minutes to summon 3 eles to finally mount up and loose all of them is not fun
-Jade Sphere: Add up an energy bar bigger than what we have right now

Before they do this, maybe they should consider a sort of Elementalist playstyle that focuses on Elementals, then removing the timed life. 



 

Edited February 12, 2023 by Yasai.3549

[Kodama.6453]

7 minutes ago, the krytan assassin.9235 said:

Especially lesser fire elemental is problematic since flame burst is effected by the condi duration and condi dmge of the player. 

Wait, what? That doesn't make alot of sense, other pet mechanics use the stats of the minion/pet for these kinds of effects, so why is it affected by the player? That should change.

[the krytan assassin.9235]

40 minutes ago, Kodama.6453 said:

Wait, what? That doesn't make alot of sense, other pet mechanics use the stats of the minion/pet for these kinds of effects, so why is it affected by the player? That should change.

Yep its definitely abit broken (same goes for the elite btw). Current dps of a lesser fire elemental in full condi is ~800 atm and the fire elemental elite deals ~2k dps. (600 & 1400 for zerk with flame Legion). Just having 2 lesser fire ele's out is already comparable with the dps of signet of Fire for condi and a single lesser fire ele already deals the same dps as arcane blast on power builds. 

 

I dont know wether its old spaghetti code, intended design or just another bug that isn't fixed, but aslong as this skill isn't fixed properly the last thing it needs is to make it more accessible. (The only reason snowcrows doesn't run fire ele's is because the dmge output is unreliable. You have 50% chance to get a normal autoattack and 50% chance to proc their special skill). 

Edited February 12, 2023 by the krytan assassin.9235

[Serephen.3420]

22 hours ago, the krytan assassin.9235 said:

Yep its definitely abit broken (same goes for the elite btw). Current dps of a lesser fire elemental in full condi is ~800 atm and the fire elemental elite deals ~2k dps. (600 & 1400 for zerk with flame Legion). Just having 2 lesser fire ele's out is already comparable with the dps of signet of Fire for condi and a single lesser fire ele already deals the same dps as arcane blast on power builds. 

 

I dont know wether its old spaghetti code, intended design or just another bug that isn't fixed, but aslong as this skill isn't fixed properly the last thing it needs is to make it more accessible. (The only reason snowcrows doesn't run fire ele's is because the dmge output is unreliable. You have 50% chance to get a normal autoattack and 50% chance to proc their special skill). 

And there you have the balancer. Unreliable damage.

[Kodama.6453]

28 minutes ago, Serephen.3420 said:

And there you have the balancer. Unreliable damage.

Making it actually reliable and then changing it to not work with the elementalists stats would be better for balance, tho.

Heck, the upcoming patch is making adjustments to mechanist with exactly that argument that pet mechanics are not supposed to work with the player stats.

[Dadnir.5038]

23 hours ago, Kodama.6453 said:

Wait, what? That doesn't make alot of sense, other pet mechanics use the stats of the minion/pet for these kinds of effects, so why is it affected by the player? That should change.

I'm pretty sure core "pets" apart from ranger's all share the condition damage and expertise stat of their masters. It's the other stats that they don't share...

[Kodama.6453]

Just now, Dadnir.5038 said:

I'm pretty sure core "pets" apart from ranger's all share the condition damage and expertise stat of their masters. It's the other stats that they don't share...

Well, according to the argument anet is using, we have to change that.

They are specifically changing mechanist to work with the mechs stats instead of the engineers and they validated that by saying that pets are not supposed to work with the players stats, but with the stats of the pet itself. If that is the case, they shouldn't just and only change mechanist to hold true to that, but all the other pets as well (minions, elementals, turrets, all of them).

[luigrein.8514]

To be fair, mechanists have traits to share their stats with the mech. This lets them make the mech good at supporting the mechanist's build/role without that having to mean they are good at everything at once. Other pets tend to have narrower focuses on their role.  I'm not saying I couldn't see an elemental redesign that incorporated some aspect of that (probably further specializing the elementals and giving them related stat inheritances), but as it stands now I believe mechanist is the only spec that has a way to manipulate stat sharing.

[Dadnir.5038]

33 minutes ago, Kodama.6453 said:

Well, according to the argument anet is using, we have to change that.

They are specifically changing mechanist to work with the mechs stats instead of the engineers and they validated that by saying that pets are not supposed to work with the players stats, but with the stats of the pet itself. If that is the case, they shouldn't just and only change mechanist to hold true to that, but all the other pets as well (minions, elementals, turrets, all of them).

It mean that they have to give a new set of stats to pets and sometime modify very old skills they'd prefer not touch though. I'm pretty sure ANet is fine toying with the new shiny stuff but they usually like to keep the very old stuff under it's heavy layer of dust.

• The elementalist's 4 lesser elementals
• The elementalist's 4 elementals (elite minions)
• Flame barrage's burn
• Stomp's cripple, immob and, as a show of good will, protection.
• Bone fiend's cripple
• rigor mortis's immobilize
• Necrotic traversal's poison
• Haunt's blind, chill, weakness
• Flesh golem's cripple
• Jagged horror's bleed
• Flamme turret's burn
• Smoke screen's blind
• Net turret's immobilize
• Electrified net's immobilize
• Automatic fire vulnerability
• Thumper's turret's cripple
• Mesmer's clones torment/confusion/vulnerability/bleed
• The various traits that work with all those.
• The runesets that summon minions applying conditions.

 

Just listing it, it look like there is enough work for the balance team for the next 3 months. And that's without taking into account the possibility that it would break them underwater. (I'm not saying that I'm not all for an update to all of that but, realistically, the devs will continue to patch things that are more "relevant" than these)

Edit: Oh my! I forgot ranger's spirits and their active skills...

Edited February 13, 2023 by Dadnir.5038

[Kodama.6453]

12 minutes ago, luigrein.8514 said:

To be fair, mechanists have traits to share their stats with the mech. This lets them make the mech good at supporting the mechanist's build/role without that having to mean they are good at everything at once. Other pets tend to have narrower focuses on their role.  I'm not saying I couldn't see an elemental redesign that incorporated some aspect of that (probably further specializing the elementals and giving them related stat inheritances), but as it stands now I believe mechanist is the only spec that has a way to manipulate stat sharing.

Even if we ignore that they are changing mechanist while not holding other classes to the same principle, the current situation makes no sense.

Power damage using pets are using their own inherent power, precision and ferocity stats for their damage. You can't increase their damage with your own stats.

Condition damage focused pets (flame turret, fire elementas, etc) are using the condition damage and expertise stats of the player, so your stats increase their damage.

Treating these pets so differently is nonsensical.