Feedback to Rapid Regeneration

[Noah Salazar.5430]

Whats your sugestions?

 

Schold it be balanced around pve HQS and making it 5ppl aoe

or open word/pvp/wvw roaming bruiser?

Edited February 19, 2023 by Noah Salazar.5430

[Infusion.7149]

You are not going to run this as DPS in PVE.

[Kuma.1503]

Are you suggesting we make this a 226 HP AoE Heal per application of superspeed? 

 

Edited February 11, 2023 by Kuma.1503

[Alcatraznc.3869]

Not only it is worse than the trait before removed but it also encourage more spamming when people have been trying to push Anet away from the whole spam X to get Y boon

[Noah Salazar.5430]

10 hours ago, Infusion.7149 said:

You are not going to run this as DPS in PVE.

Yep, you will not run curent/my version of Rapid Regeneration as DPS in PVE wher you got healer

if curent version of Rapid Regeneration will not change you will run it as dps in pvp/wvw cuz ther 500hp+ per sec is nice to have 

 

10 hours ago, Kuma.1503 said:

Are you suggesting we make this a 226 HP AoE Heal per application of superspeed? 

 

Yes

with 1500 healing stats it will be 1500(healing stats)*0.3=450

450+226=676 (not couting any adional modificators)

+ 33% from Medical Dispersion Field

676+223=899hp per application of superspeed 

with modificators it will be around 1k per superspeed as Healer (

 

As Healer in pve you have around 5-6 superspeeds per 30s cd cycle

Quote

it also encourage more spamming when people have been trying to push Anet away from the whole spam X to get Y boon

I not understend your argument

are you stating that you will spamming it more then what you do now to upkeep quickness or?

as healer your main source of healing is Med Blaster

and asuming you will take that trait as qdps, you will have healer in your party togheter with you so it is not efficient 

in open word it will be just chery on top racher a big deal

Edited February 11, 2023 by Noah Salazar.5430

[Kodama.6453]

1 hour ago, Noah Salazar.5430 said:

if curent version of Rapid Regeneration will not change you will run it as dps in pvp/wvw cuz ther 500hp+ per sec is nice to have 

This is exactly their intention, tho.

The trait is not changed just to give a buff to healscrapper (which it does, even with the current version of the trait, since medical dispersion field works with regeneration effects now).

They want to make scrapper tankier in competitive modes, while still dealing good damage. Scrapper was initially designed as a bruiser spec and they try to buff that playstyle up again.

Your suggestion would make the trait basically an exclusive pick for heal support scrapper, which is not what it is supposed to be. Healscrapper still gets a nice little buff that way, so please let us just keep the version how it was.

[Noah Salazar.5430]

On 2/11/2023 at 2:50 PM, Kodama.6453 said:

This is exactly their intention, tho.

The trait is not changed just to give a buff to healscrapper (which it does, even with the current version of the trait, since medical dispersion field works with regeneration effects now).

They want to make scrapper tankier in competitive modes, while still dealing good damage. Scrapper was initially designed as a bruiser spec and they try to buff that playstyle up again.

Your suggestion would make the trait basically an exclusive pick for heal support scrapper, which is not what it is supposed to be. Healscrapper still gets a nice little buff that way, so please let us just keep the version how it was.

you got a bit right ther

 

lets go for compromise, and just put a little lower numbers for pvp/wvw

 

 

Edited February 12, 2023 by Noah Salazar.5430

[Freedoms.2635]

Rapid regen

Doesn't this still make the trait useless in wvw? Since it's basically impossible to stack up superspeed or keep it up to get any benefit from it? 

Edited February 14, 2023 by Freedoms.2635

[JohnnyRico.8591]

 Just checked the Rapid Regeneration numbers for WvW and PvP, healing was at 89/s for swiftness, 178/s for superspeed. PvE numbers were 102/s for swiftness, 341/s for superspeed.

 

Above numbers were with 40 healing (had some food effect on me), so this is roughly base value. Looks like this isn't exactly the old version https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Rapid_Regeneration, and they nerfed it for competitive modes.

 

I didn't think this was ever going to compete with Object in Motion, and now I am pretty sure of it. I guess scrapper could be a PvE bruiser? is that a thing?

[miriforst.1290]

Just now, JohnnyRico.8591 said:

 Just checked the Rapid Regeneration numbers for WvW and PvP, healing was at 89/s for swiftness, 178/s for superspeed. PvE numbers were 102/s for swiftness, 341/s for superspeed.

 

Above numbers were with 40 healing (had some food effect on me), so this is roughly base value. Looks like this isn't exactly the old version https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Rapid_Regeneration, and they nerfed it for competitive modes.

 

I didn't think this was ever going to compete with Object in Motion, and now I am pretty sure of it. I guess scrapper could be a PvE bruiser? is that a thing?

 Given that super speed access is already heavily nerfed in pvp and especially wvw. Oof.

[JohnnyRico.8591]

Just now, miriforst.1290 said:

 Given that super speed access is already heavily nerfed in pvp and especially wvw. Oof.

Exactly. I don't even know how you could build something around this. I mean, I guess you could try a Big Boomer, Backpack Regenerator, Rapid Regeneration stacking? is that enough to sacrifice the damage bonus? It feels like Rapid Regen should have just been included as part of a minor trait

[Kodama.6453]

3 hours ago, JohnnyRico.8591 said:

Exactly. I don't even know how you could build something around this. I mean, I guess you could try a Big Boomer, Backpack Regenerator, Rapid Regeneration stacking? is that enough to sacrifice the damage bonus? It feels like Rapid Regen should have just been included as part of a minor trait

Pretty sure they made the healing so small because they hate healscrapper in WvW and wanted to make extra sure that it stays ou as the meta healer. Even if superspeed is already nerfed into the dirt in that mode. They just didn't want to give the slightest little buff to healscrapper there.

So basically: They don't want you to build anything around it. That trait is nerfed into a dead state in WvW on purpose, they made it so weak that you will never consider taking it.

Edited February 14, 2023 by Kodama.6453

[JohnnyRico.8591]

1 hour ago, Kodama.6453 said:

Pretty sure they made the healing so small because they hate healscrapper in WvW and wanted to make extra sure that it stays ou as the meta healer in WvW. Even if superspeed is already nerfed into the dirt in WvW. They just didn't want to give the slightest little buff to healscrapper there.

So basically: They don't want you to build anything around it. That trait is nerfed into a dead state in WvW on purpose, they made it so weak that you will never consider taking it.

Sums it up perfectly, I think you are right. I have never enjoyed the healscrapper play in WvW, avoided it for years, but if you don't run it, you're left with the cookie cutter explosives/alch/scrapper nades build...which relies on Object in Motion for a bunch of its damage. Real build diversity...  

 

What's strange is that its self heal only, and MDF gives such a small percentage of its healing. I don't even think the old 340 base healing would have been relevant.

[Yme.6145]

This change makes me pretty sad. They took away a unique feature of the class (not aware of any other class having a staggered damage reduction) and replaced it with a weaker version of regeneration. Were there complaints about DD being OP? It doesn't look like everything else in the game was balanced and the one thing left was scrapper's survivability against spike power damage.

[Kodama.6453]

23 minutes ago, Yme.6145 said:

This change makes me pretty sad. They took away a unique feature of the class (not aware of any other class having a staggered damage reduction) and replaced it with a weaker version of regeneration. Were there complaints about DD being OP? It doesn't look like everything else in the game was balanced and the one thing left was scrapper's survivability against spike power damage.

Anet explained that the problem was that DD was swinging too much between extremes. Against high spike damage, that trait was performing exceptionally well by staggering it and therefore giving you room to heal back up or build barrier. Meanwhile in situations were you are dealt a constant stream of damage, that trait does almost nothing.

Rapid regeneration does have it's upsides, but in competitive modes they just nerfed it way too hard so it is worthless there.

[Noah Salazar.5430]

2 hours ago, Yme.6145 said:

This change makes me pretty sad. They took away a unique feature of the class (not aware of any other class having a staggered damage reduction) and replaced it with a weaker version of regeneration. Were there complaints about DD being OP? It doesn't look like everything else in the game was balanced and the one thing left was scrapper's survivability against spike power damage.

 

as HQS main, in my opinion it's much easier to play it in pve atm, before you healed yourself only from backpack regenerator and you needed stay around exlixir shell/super elixir to survive

 

Now with Rapid Regeneration, is so easier to play, and even agony not hurts you so much on t4 fractals, + "duble regen" for allys is nice to have thx to medical dispersion field

Edited February 15, 2023 by Noah Salazar.5430

[Kuma.1503]

This trait is useless in competetive. The sustain is pitiful at the current tuning. I'd rather take Expert Examination on tanky builds. The weakness ends up preventing more damage, and the vuln helps you set up kills. 

If I'm being pressured from range, I've got Defense field, Elixir S, and my hammer skills to buy me time to find LoS. If it had its PvE tuning, I might consider taking it. 

[Kodama.6453]

8 hours ago, Kuma.1503 said:

This trait is useless in competetive. The sustain is pitiful at the current tuning. I'd rather take Expert Examination on tanky builds. The weakness ends up preventing more damage, and the vuln helps you set up kills. 

If I'm being pressured from range, I've got Defense field, Elixir S, and my hammer skills to buy me time to find LoS. If it had its PvE tuning, I might consider taking it. 

It really makes you wonder if Anet was thinking that through.

With how overnerfed the trait is in competitive, there is no way that anyone is going to use that. They stated that their intention was to buff scrappers bruiser playstyle by giving it more sustain, but that won't work out that way.

As it currently stays, the trait will just and only get taken for PvE healscrapper builds to increase their healing through MDF. If they want it taken as a defensive option in bruiser builds, they have to crank up these healing numbers.

[Calen.8945]

5 hours ago, Kodama.6453 said:

 If they want it taken as a defensive option in bruiser builds, they have to crank up these healing numbers.

I wander if that could be a worthwhile build. Build more of a quickness/healing build for pve. When the build editor site gets updated I'm going to play around with some numbers and see if I can turn scrapper into a self healing tank.

[Kodama.6453]

10 minutes ago, Calen.8945 said:

I wander if that could be a worthwhile build. Build more of a quickness/healing build for pve. When the build editor site gets updated I'm going to play around with some numbers and see if I can turn scrapper into a self healing tank.

In PvE, it might be usable. The problem there is that tanks are just very rarely needed. Either you simply don't need that much tankiness in PvE (open world, meta events, etc.) or you have a dedicated healer in the squad taking care of that (strikes, raids).

That's the major problem of most bruiser specs in PvE. They are equipped to be tanky and have alot of survivability packed into their kits, but that is not needed the big majority of the time.

[Alcatraznc.3869]

6 hours ago, Calen.8945 said:

I wander if that could be a worthwhile build. Build more of a quickness/healing build for pve. When the build editor site gets updated I'm going to play around with some numbers and see if I can turn scrapper into a self healing tank.

 

For group content outside of raid, tank are very niche. If you play healer then I guess that adds a little bit of healing but nothing to write books about. For non healer, this trait is even worse than its pre removed state.

 

For OW it could work but honestly you would be better off playing Celestial Holosmith or Mechanist rather than Scrapper. Both offer better damage, Holosmith has arguably more healing through Hard Light Arena and Heat cooldown and Mechanist has a signet and a pet that can tank a bit of damage.

 

In the end of the day, this trait brings a little bit of healing if you play HQS in PvE but for PvP and WvW it's just trash. Superspeed has been super nerf in both gamemode that you dont exactly benefit much from the superspeed healing but on top of that the base value is nerfed. If you're playing support healer then yes you will pick this trait because there is objectively nothing better but it will not bring much value. But for non healer, they will still pick Object in motion, hell even Expert examination.

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

On 2/14/2023 at 5:19 PM, Yme.6145 said:

This change makes me pretty sad. They took away a unique feature of the class (not aware of any other class having a staggered damage reduction) and replaced it with a weaker version of regeneration. Were there complaints about DD being OP? It doesn't look like everything else in the game was balanced and the one thing left was scrapper's survivability against spike power damage.

It had a major issue in content such as raids where a very high damage would be delivered at bad times. While running this trait you never knew if you would suddenly go down because spike damage is unpredictable, and most players I knew didn't run the trait due to it being a liability.

 

For example many bosses have one-shots that far exceed the damage a player can take and you would survive the initial hit only to explode a short time later.

Edited February 16, 2023 by SoftFootpaws.9134

[miriforst.1290]

2 hours ago, SoftFootpaws.9134 said:

It had a major issue in content such as raids where a very high damage would be delivered at bad times. While running this trait you never knew if you would suddenly go down because spike damage is unpredictable, and most players I knew didn't run the trait due to it being a liability.

 

For example many bosses have one-shots that far exceed the damage a player can take and you would survive the initial hit only to explode a short time later.

What made this even more hilarious is that an ill timed bulwark gyro could mean that a guaranteed down attack could turn one down into one down and one dead since bulwark gyro would transfer lethal damage to the engineer and then, right about when the downstate invuln wears off, deliver a killing blow from dampener. I just found the potential antisynergy so delicious on a tanky spec.

 

This reminds me that maybe we should just have bulwark gyro pulse barrier instead of this weird damage transfer. Usually, focused fire is a bad thing to have happening to you.

 

[Yme.6145]

7 hours ago, SoftFootpaws.9134 said:

It had a major issue in content such as raids where a very high damage would be delivered at bad times. While running this trait you never knew if you would suddenly go down because spike damage is unpredictable, and most players I knew didn't run the trait due to it being a liability.

 

For example many bosses have one-shots that far exceed the damage a player can take and you would survive the initial hit only to explode a short time later.

 

I'm a bit confused by your example - if you didn't die to the 66% of the strike damage, why would you die to the %33 2 seconds later (+66% of the follow up strike damage)? Wouldn't that make the healer's job easier to keep you alive if it's a one-off spike damage or make no difference if you're not dodging / avoiding damage? Also, heal quickness scrapper is pretty rare in any case and DPS scrappers will always take Object in Motion so perhaps that's why you haven't seen it in instanced PVE. I would expect it to be more popular in WvW where it provided decent spike damage mitigation.

Edited February 16, 2023 by Yme.6145

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

3 hours ago, Yme.6145 said:

 

I'm a bit confused by your example - if you didn't die to the 66% of the strike damage, why would you die to the %33 2 seconds later (+66% of the follow up strike damage)? Wouldn't that make the healer's job easier to keep you alive if it's a one-off spike damage or make no difference if you're not dodging / avoiding damage? Also, heal quickness scrapper is pretty rare in any case and DPS scrappers will always take Object in Motion so perhaps that's why you haven't seen it in instanced PVE. I would expect it to be more popular in WvW where it provided decent spike damage mitigation.

There's various reasons for this such as attacks that are based upon a percentage of health, mechanics that mitigate damage for only brief periods, loss of barrier, and too low of an HPS on healers which average about 5k (sometimes more, sometimes less), which isn't enough to fully restore 15k in a few seconds unless your own personal heal skill is available at the time.

 

You're also going to still be taking damage on top of that, possibly from allies with Bulwark Gyro. which is sometimes taken even on DPS builds to allow ignoring some mechanics.

Edited February 16, 2023 by SoftFootpaws.9134