Will it be fun? (mantra changes)

[Zergs.9715]

At the end of the day the balance, the mantra "identity", the builds, will not matter if the change you are bringing aren't fun. New hammer #4 into hammer #2 sounds REALLY fun, and yes I'm aware that weapon still needs more work! So will mantra changes be hammer #4 into hammer #2 level of fun?

Just something devs should ask themselves before making any changes to one of the most played and beloved elite specs in the game.

[Yasai.3549]

All I have to say to this is: 

If the Identity of Mantras is feeling garbage to use, then I'd rather Mantras not have an identity. The gall of Anet to pull a statement like identity after what they did to Gyros. Seriously.

 

Edited February 11, 2023 by Yasai.3549

[Buran.3796]

   Well, Willbender got 6 physical skills, and so far only Whirling Light (and to much lesser extent Reversal of Fortune) are used. If casting the mantras becomes annoying (specially taking in consideration the ratio between the new buffs and the annoyance potential), they won't be used (or used in minimal amounts).

   The amimation cast of the Mantras were cool, but only the first 5k times.  Most of them aren't specially useful at team content either, since the nerfs limited their utility and compete against Guardian's shouts and consecrations, which are some of the best supporting skills in the entire game.

[Infusion.7149]

The answer should also be is it fun to play against? In WvW it is not since people can spam mantras without consequence. It is not like you would be able to pinpoint anyone else that is  firebrand other than a commander even if mantras had a recharge time and they messed up.

[otto.5684]

PvE wise, it does not matter. You never use the last charge anyway. Spvp, having a final charge is not going to make mantra’s work. All of the mantra’s, except the condi cleanse, are useless in spvp. This is not news. We have been there before for more than a year, post ~April 2020. We already know that mantras won’t work with by making most of their effect dependent on a final charge.

 

I always find it kittening stupid when devs try the same thing over and over again. It did not work before. It aint gonna work now. Fix the effect of the charges. Seriously, when was the last time a dev even set foot in spvp with FB? Can we stop it with half kitten mediocre bull kitten, that seems to be pulled by a random number generator?

[Ruisenior.6342]

On 2/11/2023 at 4:09 AM, otto.5684 said:

PvE wise, it does not matter. You never use the last charge anyway.

Can you clarify this?

 

I may be wrong, but, as an example i use to burn all mantra of potence charges when i want to burst something.

[zeyeti.8347]

44 minutes ago, Ruisenior.6342 said:

PvE wise, it does not matter. You never use the last charge anyway.

Sorry but i do use the last charge of mantra of flames as dps .

[otto.5684]

3 hours ago, zeyeti.8347 said:

Sorry but i do use the last charge of mantra of flames as dps .

Generally speaking, in any long encounter it was a dps loss. You had to wait for 25 secs + 2.75 sec cast time.

[zeyeti.8347]

3 hours ago, otto.5684 said:

Generally speaking, in any long encounter it was a dps loss. You had to wait for 25 secs + 2.75 sec cast time.

Ahh you mean the previous state of mantras , not the actual state . my bad .

[Hotride.2187]

Cant say I play guard because its fun. I play it because its in high demand. Having final charges on the mantras gives you a bit more decision making... but the tome change took decision making away, on average. Cant say much has changed playing fb despite all the changes. It has not gotten fun for me, it wasnt fun before, prolly wont start being fun. Its a toolbox that is simple to play... cant say it needs to be fun too.

[Ashford.8540]

I would say it's a sustainability and DPS nerf because the firebrands biggest sustain "was" mantra of solace but now that it runs out and you got to wait for the cooldown and you then need to wait for the cast timer, firebrand needs to rely on their other healing abilities instead.

 

DPS wise, same issue, wait for cooldown, then cast timer. A massive downgrade overall because a balance team thought it would be a good idea to revert QoL changes when old mantras did not work the first time.

[Adexxx.4205]

I really dunno who tested or thought its a good idea to do this nonsense manta ''rework'' , but this by far one of the worst changes imo made to FB. Its honestly, on par or worse then warrior banner rework, you just made mantras not fun to play....however everyone will be forced to play this mantra crap because there is no other way.

 

So final result will be - raid meta wont change in qfb/hfb demand, hfb will still be king of fractals and the only thing you achieved with this change is to annoy most of FB players Anet. So is this some new way trying to nerf FBs? by making it's core tool kit unfun to use in PVE? 

 

Horrible and not fun change in my opinion.

[Alastor.3054]

I hate the mantra changes with passion and sadly I don't play any other classes to swap around, if they don't revert back the changes most likely I'm quitting for the foreseeable future.

[Geckoo.6018]

As a HFB i hate this change. I'm not saying that mindlessly spamming mantras as we had before the patch is a better gameplay, but the current changes are not the way to go and honestly, i don't think it properly captures what was wrong about mantras in the first place.

Having to cast the mantras before the combat was an inconvenience back then, but it was just that... The real problem was always, and still is, what happens when you just have one charge left that you should not use because otherwise instead of having a more powerful and interesting effect, you are more likely to get punished with less boon uptime and a short but disruptive cast time. Micromanaging mantra charges is simply not fun nor a works towards having a fluid gameplay.

Edited February 14, 2023 by Geckoo.6018

[DarkSoul.2348]

I am finding it way more interesting to play , PVE only have not tried in WVW I love having this kind of thing in guild wars 2 more artwork on skills is nice to look at and intensifies the feeling of the skills love the final charge being more powerful at the trade off CD and casting, even if some elite specs are more advanced than core or others this adds to the game in my eyes to have at least one spec if not more that requires mastery or skill curve.. Balance is always a fine tuned beast but making the builds fun and interesting to play just as important in my opinion. Overall i think this is a good thing for the game and hopefully other specs and classes can all get the same treatment eventually and bring balance along too. Was way to spam and boring before, I support these kinds of chances 100% hopefully others do and it sticks around. Thank you Devs solid update looking forward to another great year for guild wars 2 !! 

[Gaiawolf.8261]

6 hours ago, DarkSoul.2348 said:

I am finding it way more interesting to play , PVE only have not tried in WVW I love having this kind of thing in guild wars 2 more artwork on skills is nice to look at and intensifies the feeling of the skills love the final charge being more powerful at the trade off CD and casting, even if some elite specs are more advanced than core or others this adds to the game in my eyes to have at least one spec if not more that requires mastery or skill curve.. Balance is always a fine tuned beast but making the builds fun and interesting to play just as important in my opinion. Overall i think this is a good thing for the game and hopefully other specs and classes can all get the same treatment eventually and bring balance along too. Was way to spam and boring before, I support these kinds of chances 100% hopefully others do and it sticks around. Thank you Devs solid update looking forward to another great year for guild wars 2 !! 

Try it on wvw and then see how you feel. Especially if you have to cross a river between fights. 

[DarkSoul.2348]

16 minutes ago, Gaiawolf.8261 said:

Try it on wvw and then see how you feel. Especially if you have to cross a river between fights. 

I have for a little bit and i admit i am not much of a wvw player. Perhaps casting or pre charging the mantras could be removed from wvw only or something like that. Maybe CD or recasting but not both would make it less slow but other than that i feel the mantras work just fine, that being said i kinda like the feeling of  being more decisive with how i use the mantra for example weather to use the final stronger charge and gain a page or save it is a good way forward for elite specs, at least for me. Perhaps wvw needs to be its own thing cant say alot because i only play that mode very causal it wasn't too bad for me  the tomb page cost  i am still not sure about was still kinda feeling like my choice to only dip into resolve for heals and maybe courage for a skill stings a little too hard resulting in too much on CD and or recharge atm. Sorry to hear you are not enjoying it as much atm i hope they find a balance to keep us all happy players,we just have to talk about it and be patient is all. 

[Gaiawolf.8261]

2 minutes ago, DarkSoul.2348 said:

I have for a little bit and i admit i am not much of a wvw player. Perhaps casting or pre charging the mantras could be removed from wvw only or something like that. Maybe CD or recasting but not both would make it less slow but other than that i feel the mantras work just fine, that being said i kinda like the feeling of  being more decisive with how i use the mantra for example weather to use the final stronger charge and gain a page or save it is a good way forward for elite specs, at least for me. Perhaps wvw needs to be its own thing cant say alot because i only play that mode very causal it wasn't too bad for me  the tomb page cost  i am still not sure about was still kinda feeling like my choice to only dip into resolve for heals and maybe courage for a skill stings a little too hard resulting in too much on CD and or recharge atm. Sorry to hear you are not enjoying it as much atm i hope they find a balance to keep us all happy players,we just have to talk about it and be patient is all. 

As suggested in another topic, I think it would be better if the more powerful effect was a pulsing effect on the mantra charge. Then it wouldn't be a long self daze just to get access to charges, and the decision would be whether it's better to sustain smaller effects on a shorter CD, or go on a longer CD to use the powerful channel skill again. Self dazing is just not fun, counter play or not. 

[DarkSoul.2348]

Just now, Gaiawolf.8261 said:

As suggested in another topic, I think it would be better if the more powerful effect was a pulsing effect on the mantra charge. Then it wouldn't be a long self daze just to get access to charges, and the decision would be whether it's better to sustain smaller effects on a shorter CD, or go on a longer CD to use the powerful channel skill again. Self dazing is just not fun, counter play or not. 

 

yeh just read it, i see your point,pre-load can be replaced or reworked especially in wvw, i just find the rest of it better balance aside 

[Zergs.9715]

On 2/11/2023 at 1:15 AM, Zergs.9715 said:

So will mantra changes be hammer #4 into hammer #2 level of fun?

 

Hello, past me! No it's not. We'll meet at GW1.

[DarkSoul.2348]

On 2/16/2023 at 3:15 AM, Gaiawolf.8261 said:

As suggested in another topic, I think it would be better if the more powerful effect was a pulsing effect on the mantra charge. Then it wouldn't be a long self daze just to get access to charges, and the decision would be whether it's better to sustain smaller effects on a shorter CD, or go on a longer CD to use the powerful channel skill again. Self dazing is just not fun, counter play or not. 

 

 

On 2/16/2023 at 2:37 AM, Gaiawolf.8261 said:

Try it on wvw and then see how you feel. Especially if you have to cross a river between fights. 

I do Agree 100% with the river thing  ,just tried the river thing i see what you mean. This needs to be addressed for sure. Going into small body of water should defiantly not reset the mantras 

[Jokuc.3478]

I'm very happy with the mantra changes. Mantras are much more interesting and now with flame mantra you can decide if you want to use old rotation which is easier, or use up final charge but have to fit in the recharge in your rotation, which is slightly higher damage but needs planning. Seeing the mantra animations makes me happy as well, I just wish I got to hear the voice lines more frequently when recharging, it seems kind of random atm if they play or not.