My list of painful points not addressed

[anduriell.6280]

I believe this is a list of pending pain points. 

* Empathic Bond still in WS trait-line instead BM. If you want to cleanse you go WS or nothing.

* evasive purity still with iCD, that trait has enough CD because it depends on dodges. 

* Spirits are unusable outside from raids. 
* No actual squad wvw build. Instead the 3 elites focused in dueling .

* druid still brings nothing relevant in wvw. 

* core still can’t hide the pet permanently. That alone would solve the biggest issue ranger has in wvw. 
* EOD pets are awfully designed skill wise. 
* ranger has no way to visualize the pets boons or conditions affecting them. 
* unfinished still feels like garbage and make me feel nauseated when I play with it independently of the game mode . 
* dagger in general feels awful. Hammer is not much better but for different reasons. 
* ranger still not wanted and despised in wvw .

[Mic.1897]

2 hours ago, anduriell.6280 said:

 

* No actual squad wvw build. Instead the 3 elites focused in dueling .

 

 

 

Have you considered ascending to Bear

[Beddo.1907]

11 hours ago, anduriell.6280 said:

* No actual squad wvw build.

11 hours ago, anduriell.6280 said:

* ranger still not wanted and despised in wvw .

The only part where I'd half disagree. While Druid still isn't perfect, the squads I've been to, usually take Druid if there is nothing better. In the end the healing output is decent and cleanse is enough to support your team.
There are only 4 things that hold druid back (some of which you mentioned):
-Glyph flip is locking support skills for 1/3 of the fight.
-Druids suffers in mobile fights, Healing spring, Glyph of the Stars and some CA skills are hard to use at 100% efficiency, but work well when the entire effect is used.
-Pet. Who would have guessed.
-No relevant stab.

If Druid got some reliable stab source, Glyphs had both effects (seriously 24cd daze, 20cd 2s root on 300r and 30cd for bad damage?), Pet stayed on stow and more effects that move with you and I'd say Druid is good enough.

[Abyssisis.3971]

Sometimes I think ranger should have been designed as a petless class like every other class, but have a special or 6th trait line solely dedicated to enabling the ranger to gain access to pets and increasing its effectiveness. 

[Beddo.1907]

23 minutes ago, Abyssisis.3971 said:

Sometimes I think ranger should have been designed as a petless class like every other class, but have a special or 6th trait line solely dedicated to enabling the ranger to gain access to pets and increasing its effectiveness. 

So Mechanist, but core?

[Abyssisis.3971]

7 hours ago, Beddo.1907 said:

So Mechanist, but core?

Yes, but without the whole engineer side of things.

[Kodama.6453]

4 hours ago, Abyssisis.3971 said:

Yes, but without the whole engineer side of things.

Problem is, if the pet mechanic would be tied to taking a core trait line, then what would ranger's actual class mechanic be?

[Abyssisis.3971]

5 hours ago, Kodama.6453 said:

Problem is, if the pet mechanic would be tied to taking a core trait line, then what would ranger's actual class mechanic be?

Proficiency… a mechanic similar to attunement by elementalist, only once in combat, cannot be switched. Each of these proficiency should focus on one aspect of the ranger theme and improve it.

[Gotejjeken.1267]

13 hours ago, Abyssisis.3971 said:

Proficiency… a mechanic similar to attunement by elementalist, only once in combat, cannot be switched. Each of these proficiency should focus on one aspect of the ranger theme and improve it.

 

Or they just release Dervish already, give us as scythe and let us channel our pets like ritualists / current revs do with legends...

[Abyssisis.3971]

7 hours ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

 

Or they just release Dervish already, give us as scythe and let us channel our pets like ritualists / current revs do with legends...

That still won’t fix current issues with pets.

[Mell.4873]

On 2/26/2023 at 12:19 PM, anduriell.6280 said:

I believe this is a list of pending pain points. 

* Empathic Bond still in WS trait-line instead BM. If you want to cleanse you go WS or nothing.

* evasive purity still with iCD, that trait has enough CD because it depends on dodges. 

* Spirits are unusable outside from raids. 
* No actual squad wvw build. Instead the 3 elites focused in dueling .

* druid still brings nothing relevant in wvw. 

* core still can’t hide the pet permanently. That alone would solve the biggest issue ranger has in wvw. 
* EOD pets are awfully designed skill wise. 
* ranger has no way to visualize the pets boons or conditions affecting them. 
* unfinished still feels like garbage and make me feel nauseated when I play with it independently of the game mode . 
* dagger in general feels awful. Hammer is not much better but for different reasons. 
* ranger still not wanted and despised in wvw .

I believe these are our strong points:

• Merged pet swap allows some crazy mobility
• Longbow is easily one of the best WvW weapons for Roaming and Zergs
• Untamed FF makes any build viable even Spirits
• Druid (CA) Glyph of the Stars basically makes 5 people invulnerable for 7 seconds and is on a very low cooldown
• Druid can Root multiple people in place, very useful for separating players during a Zerg clash
• The Turtle pet gives Ranger access to a projectile block
• Untamed is easily the best overall PvP elite being a sort of Druid/Soulbeast hybrid
• Dagger in PvE gives access to a Poison Condition build which no other class can do
• Hammer has 3 stuns so more FF and has equally powerful Power Burst when an enemy is stunned.
• Ranger is one of the most widely used classes in WvW, especially for Roaming with Soulbeast.

Edited April 13, 2023 by Mell.4873

[Zaret.1450]

for me pets arent as bad of a mecanic, the problem is implementation, we have all pet traits spread, mainly pet boons being on nature magic makes it so its difficult to give pet reliable boons, as a dps build is usually better with beastmastery and the longbow traitline, then theres the nerf in health that pets have in wvw, i understand a pet with 40k would be absurd for a duel, but a pet with 20k and no boons is just non existant  so... it needs something to survive those zergs.

For me next would be untamed, the unleashed mecanic is cool, but only you get the buffs and pet unleash skills arent as great, theyre good, but if it were to get a 5%dmg increase while unleashed and 5%dmg reduction while leashed, itd help quite a lot, in pve FF is gonna be nerfed, so a bit of pet extra dmg woundt mind and in wvw is just a bit of sustain, next ambushes... theyre so bothersome, being forced to leash and unleash, having to either save the ambush and wait when you might want the auto attacks leash and unleash again to get the ambush, its just... its a bit clunky for me, if instead the skills just replaced the 2 skill of the weapons, with the timer being on the corruption trait, wed get better aoe on untamed, a decent boon rip/corrupt, and while it could loose dmg on longbow or some weapons, well pets improvement balance it out a bit.

[Gotejjeken.1267]

14 hours ago, Abyssisis.3971 said:

That still won’t fix current issues with pets.

I don't see how Dervish with integrated 'spirt pet' functionality is any worse than locking rangers to an attunement.  If you want that, play elementalist.  

I mean, you literally allude to a Derv/Rit/spirit type deal here:

On 2/26/2023 at 7:29 AM, Abyssisis.3971 said:

Sometimes I think ranger should have been designed as a petless class like every other class, but have a special or 6th trait line solely dedicated to enabling the ranger to gain access to pets and increasing its effectiveness. 

 

Edited February 28, 2023 by Gotejjeken.1267

[Abyssisis.3971]

2 hours ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

I don't see how Dervish with integrated 'spirt pet' functionality is any worse than locking rangers to an attunement.  If you want that, play elementalist.  

I mean, you literally allude to a Derv/Rit/spirit type deal here:

 

The word you missed was “current” as in devish won’t fix pets for core, Druid, soulbeast and untamed. 🤦‍♂️

The idea behind giving rangers an “attunement” isn’t the same as elementalist.

Rangers being the jack of all trades, proficient in all manner of things. The idea is that they would take it one step further than being the jack of all trades and actually master the trade. Proficiency options could improved a ranged proficiency, melee proficiency, beastmastery proficiency etc.

For example, if I wanted to improve my ranged skills, id spec into the Proficiency that did it. Doing so could improve my skills, increase my weapon range, crit chance, damage bonus etc. 

This would be rangers mechanic instead of pets, obviously it never going to happen tho. 

Edited February 28, 2023 by Abyssisis.3971

[Beddo.1907]

11 hours ago, Abyssisis.3971 said:

The word you missed was “current” as in devish won’t fix pets for core, Druid, soulbeast and untamed. 🤦‍♂️

The idea behind giving rangers an “attunement” isn’t the same as elementalist.

Rangers being the jack of all trades, proficient in all manner of things. The idea is that they would take it one step further than being the jack of all trades and actually master the trade. Proficiency options could improved a ranged proficiency, melee proficiency, beastmastery proficiency etc.

For example, if I wanted to improve my ranged skills, id spec into the Proficiency that did it. Doing so could improve my skills, increase my weapon range, crit chance, damage bonus etc. 

This would be rangers mechanic instead of pets, obviously it never going to happen tho. 

Seems like the most boring class mechanic up to date. Literally Soulbeast, but without skills and limited to one part of ranger.

[Abyssisis.3971]

1 hour ago, Beddo.1907 said:

Seems like the most boring class mechanic up to date. Literally Soulbeast, but without skills and limited to one part of ranger.

Maybe, but still better than pets 😂 

[Kodama.6453]

2 hours ago, Abyssisis.3971 said:

Maybe, but still better than pets 😂 

Pets just made extremely much sense as a class mechanic for ranger thematically, that's the thing.

Obviously, anet intended ranger to be nature themed class. And what better way to convey that nature theme than giving the class a permanent animal companion?

A mechanic which is basically an attunement with the ranger having some proficiency over one aspect does not deliver the message of "this is the nature expert" all that much. You could also have used that mechanic on thief or engineer, for example, it would just make as much sense there.

[Abyssisis.3971]

43 minutes ago, Kodama.6453 said:

Pets just made extremely much sense as a class mechanic for ranger thematically, that's the thing.

Obviously, anet intended ranger to be nature themed class. And what better way to convey that nature theme than giving the class a permanent animal companion?

A mechanic which is basically an attunement with the ranger having some proficiency over one aspect does not deliver the message of "this is the nature expert" all that much. You could also have used that mechanic on thief or engineer, for example, it would just make as much sense there.

That’s all well and good for playing game mode like lions arch and trading post, but as a wvw player, thematic doesn’t work too well.

[apharma.3741]

On 2/26/2023 at 11:28 AM, Beddo.1907 said:

The only part where I'd half disagree. While Druid still isn't perfect, the squads I've been to, usually take Druid if there is nothing better. In the end the healing output is decent and cleanse is enough to support your team.
There are only 4 things that hold druid back (some of which you mentioned):
-Glyph flip is locking support skills for 1/3 of the fight.
-Druids suffers in mobile fights, Healing spring, Glyph of the Stars and some CA skills are hard to use at 100% efficiency, but work well when the entire effect is used.
-Pet. Who would have guessed.
-No relevant stab.

If Druid got some reliable stab source, Glyphs had both effects (seriously 24cd daze, 20cd 2s root on 300r and 30cd for bad damage?), Pet stayed on stow and more effects that move with you and I'd say Druid is good enough.

I was going to also question the group WvW, druid was being explored by a lot of guilds last time I looked into what organised comps were. That was before the Christmas patch though so things might have changed after staff ele buffs.
Having a glyph outside of stars give stab would be nice, otherwise druid isn't that bad, it's not perfect but man does glyph of stars carry.

Generally I've found druid scales pretty well from solo to small group to small organised to larger comps. Drops off a little as groups get bigger and pet death is very real even set to passive.

[anduriell.6280]

On 3/1/2023 at 2:05 PM, apharma.3741 said:

I was going to also question the group WvW, druid was being explored by a lot of guilds last time I looked into what organised comps were. That was before the Christmas patch though so things might have changed after staff ele buffs.
Having a glyph outside of stars give stab would be nice, otherwise druid isn't that bad, it's not perfect but man does glyph of stars carry.

Generally I've found druid scales pretty well from solo to small group to small organised to larger comps. Drops off a little as groups get bigger and pet death is very real even set to passive.

Exactly what i feel when i play Druid. It does pretty well in small scale (3-5 each team) but the bigger is the group the more useless it feels.  Also when i write "it does pretty well" keep in mind  what i actually mean is it feel somewhat useful.

But that can be applied to every Ranger specialization. And let's not forget the limping pet following you around everywhere. When you try to hide you allies with celestial shadow.

There must be a reason Druid is still a very niche build with no usage in real squad combat and very few guilds use it in their havoc comps that i know of for as much as some would like otherwise. 

Edited March 3, 2023 by anduriell.6280

[apharma.3741]

37 minutes ago, anduriell.6280 said:

Exactly what i feel when i play Druid. It does pretty well in small scale (3-5 each team) but the bigger is the group the more useless it feels.  Also when i write "it does pretty well" keep in mind  what i actually mean is it feel somewhat useful.

But that can be applied to every Ranger specialization. And let's not forget the limping pet following you around everywhere. When you try to hide you allies with celestial shadow.

There must be a reason Druid is still a very niche build with no usage in real squad combat and very few guilds use it in their havoc comps that i know of for as much as some would like otherwise. 

Depends what we mean by havoc, I often see druid in 5-10 groups usually to immobilise enemies with entangle. I believe they're playing celestial so they heal a bit but mostly get kills through roots. It'll depend on the co-ordination of the group but stealth, immobilise and a moving water field are all great for hit and run.
For bigger groups I don't think it matches a tempest or scrapper but I'd be comfortable putting druid in 3rd place, ignoring that FB is and always will be required so not ranking. Glyph of stars though, wow, I just cast it where they're going to clash and either people don't worry about conditions and have stab or when they go down you win the rally war.
Only saving grace about the pet limping is it's usually a long way behind but yeah it's super annoying that it gives the game away.

[anduriell.6280]

On 3/3/2023 at 9:33 AM, apharma.3741 said:

Only saving grace about the pet limping is it's usually a long way behind but yeah it's super annoying that it gives the game away.

That limping pet is actually your class  mechanic. Ranger is the only class who will get their mechanic disabled at any moment and there is nothing you can do. 

And over that, pets are unadulterated  garbage additions in every scenario and to top it all also bring undesired effects when they die. So Anet developers are basically using a handicap they intentionally  keep to justify all the additional short comings in the class. 

Like really. It's been a decade. Fix the class already. And please put somebody who actually play the class in charge of the changes, Don't let another one who has to check in the wiki to know what an skill or trait is supposed to do. 

And I don't think the sheltered guild ranger player have an actual grasp of the class either.   

Edited March 5, 2023 by anduriell.6280

[apharma.3741]

On 3/5/2023 at 12:10 PM, anduriell.6280 said:

That limping pet is actually your class  mechanic. Ranger is the only class who will get their mechanic disabled at any moment and there is nothing you can do. 

And over that, pets are unadulterated  garbage additions in every scenario and to top it all also bring undesired effects when they die. So Anet developers are basically using a handicap they intentionally  keep to justify all the additional short comings in the class. 

Like really. It's been a decade. Fix the class already. And please put somebody who actually play the class in charge of the changes, Don't let another one who has to check in the wiki to know what an skill or trait is supposed to do. 

And I don't think the sheltered guild ranger player have an actual grasp of the class either.   

Everything you said also applies to mesmer but ANet hasn't "fixed" it so certain versions will always be stuck like that.
The best you can ask/hope for is to get elite specs that make up for it in WvW where this is really a problem, that's why I think adding stab to a glyph and in general making glyphs and CA better for large scale is the route to go. Allows druid to be good in large scale support and be competitive without the pet (skill split for PvP where pet death is less of an issue) and if you want damage you go soulbeast and stay merged to not deal with the pet death.
It would be ideal if the balance team did have people who specialised in every class, could make mechanical changes when needed, do reworks instead of nerfing 50+ traits/skills on core just for the elites but that's not happening. They do not have the resources or can't justify spending the resources on that.
 

[Ashford.8540]

Honestly, all the specs  are lackluster right now with the only saving grace being soulbeast, but even then it's a bad time because SB is only playable in group pve content but terrible at open world without significant investment into 2 sets of gear (Condi/celestial or trailblazers). Not to mention as the OP stated, there is a big stigma with rangers that they are bad which means  as  a ranger, players will get kicked out of groups  alot.

 

In some respect I do  agree though, although all the classes  are in  a better state in PvE than it was months  ago, rangers  is one of  the worst classes  in the game right now behind necromancer considering for the amount each spec has, there are about a many number of things wrong with them, all while managing  a pet AI

Edited March 10, 2023 by Ashford.8540

[Lazze.9870]

On 2/26/2023 at 12:28 PM, Beddo.1907 said:

-Pet. Who would have guessed.
-No relevant stab.

If Druid got some reliable stab source, Glyphs had both effects (seriously 24cd daze, 20cd 2s root on 300r and 30cd for bad damage?), Pet stayed on stow and more effects that move with you and I'd say Druid is good enough.

Firebrand provides stabs. I dunno why people keep brining it up. A Tempest doesn't replace a Firebrand either. You have one stab/prot bot, then you have a healer/cleanser. Druid falls into the latter. The reason it isn't meta is imply because Tempest does it better.

And yes, the pets suck for WvW. At least the Turtle isn't a complete deadweight with its instant shield.

The only thing druid really suffers from in comparison to Tempest is ease of use and radius of or the statonairy nature of some skills. You can't compete with braindead aura spam, unless you're pre-nerfed scrapper.