Stop coddling the pvp population

[RedAvenged.5217]

Balance is bad and yet FACTS

1 players getting paid to balance

2 players paying for titles

3 a pvp area where you can afk

4 a daily that gives you gold 

SOLUTION

eliminate HotM, forcing pvpers to do map completion and eliminate the daily gold reward.

 

on top of that charge daily pvpers 10g a day to force them to learn proper fractal mechanics

 

[Multicolorhipster.9751]

Obviously there's not too much coddling going on otherwise people wouldn't be quitting in mass.

You right though, they do be coddling specific groups of players that remain in PvP and the solution to dealing with each one differs based on who is being coddled.

 

The wintraders for instance the ones paying for and boosting accounts to get titles are coddled the most because they have DuoQ and total impunity. They're even hired to come and balance PvP with all their biases so that they can flex their narcissism on literally everyone.

The solution is to take away their DuoQ, to make what they do objectively more difficult to do, and then; when they stop looking like literal gods walking amongst mere mortals, they will lose all authority over balance. They are carried by DuoQ. It is a crutch,  an advantage, ego-inflation. You want to stop coddling them, tell them: "You did really good with help, now try playing without any help and see how you fare."

 

Then there's the lame-brain AFKers. In Arenanet's TOS it says that this is against the rules, but it never goes punished and freebie rewards still exist. Really they're coddled and there isn't an even an attempt to enforce the rule. Instead it is just strongly advised against, while also rewarding the people who AFK just for being there, and with this game's low population, even 1 person AFKing at any given time is likely to run into players of any rating.

The solution there is to remove the reward for losing in competitive because losing is losing, not winning.

 

Prayer and pain, actual commitment and effort. That's what it will take to cleanse PvP, if it is to be cleansed at all. 🙏

[Wayne.6253]

12 hours ago, RedAvenged.5217 said:

force them to learn proper fractal mechanics

what is fractal? I dont play a kitten braindead mechanics as pve is.

If im playing Gw2 is only because i can log in, do from 30 min to 3 hours of pvp ranked and i can log out happy.

No pve, no gear farm, no daily quest, this is the beauty of SPvP of GW2, and its what is missing in the other core mmorpg.

Edited May 16, 2023 by Wayne.6253

[Damocles.4908]

I think the reward track should go or give less goods, I never felt the need to go and get mats or run in pve areas as most of my stuff just comes from pvp rewards now...Like there is no drive to venture out

[Wayne.6253]

15 minutes ago, Damocles.4908 said:

I think the reward track should go or give less goods, I never felt the need to go and get mats or run in pve areas as most of my stuff just comes from pvp rewards now...Like there is no drive to venture out

you should go to run pve if you have fun, not for materials... gaming is not a job, you shouldn't be forced to do somenthing that you don't want to do.

[RedAvenged.5217]

3 hours ago, Damocles.4908 said:

I think the reward track should go or give less goods, I never felt the need to go and get mats or run in pve areas as most of my stuff just comes from pvp rewards now...Like there is no drive to venture out

exactly my friend. If only pvpers got their daily queensdale adventuring- they would get gud

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

19 hours ago, Multicolorhipster.9751 said:

coddling specific groups of players

 

Yes.

 

21 hours ago, RedAvenged.5217 said:

forcing pvpers

 

forcing pvpers to engage with the mode if the mode has no integrity is how you kill the game mode. They don't have to do anything, and punishing people who are even tangentially interested in the mode for not being fully invested isnt the way. 

Direct that at the people who disrespect the game mode and take for granted the people that decide to engage with it. The people that want to git gud will, your priority should be making sure that if they decide to git gud they get rewarded with a richer experience, instead of a more toxic one. 

Edited May 16, 2023 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[Multicolorhipster.9751]

12 hours ago, Wayne.6253 said:

you should go to run pve if you have fun, not for materials... gaming is not a job, you shouldn't be forced to do somenthing that you don't want to do.

Then like every game/sport winning should be winning and losing should be losing.

A good middle ground would be removing the reward that's given just for showing up in Ranked.

 

That reward; given for absolutely nothing, is Anathema to effort, and if you're passionate about a game, sport, or any activity then you're going to want your peers to put in some themselves, even knowing it's all in the context of a game.

Because if we all turn into do-nothing AFK leechlords, then people are only really having fun in the same way the crackheads in San Francisco are having fun. Like yeah; kind of, but not really.

People underestimate the value of deferred gratification and self-sacrifice. There's something to actually be proud of.

[Lucy.3728]

I don't play the pvp mode but when I read this you maybe should play wvw. Seems there's more pvp in wvw than in pvp.

No pvp ranks and less rewards.

People playing pvp there play because they like it (I guess) because everything else, esp zerg vs zerg, pays off more (if you're after rewards like many bags)

Edited May 18, 2023 by Lucy.3728

[ShadowInTheVoid.9183]

On 5/15/2023 at 10:55 PM, Multicolorhipster.9751 said:

The solution there is to remove the reward for losing in competitive because losing is losing, not winning.

Actually, isn't the solution to reward people for their individual actions rather then only reward/punishing them with the team?

Points based on how much damage you put out, how much healing you did, how offensive or defensive you were, how much you interacted with stage stuff like killed the lord or fired the cannons etc.

Then if you get a AFKer they sit there and get no rewards and the remaining players get rewarded for still playing and not giving up

 

If there is no reward for losing at all then people will just give up sooner and AFK more because why would they try?

 

We also need the season reward chests on Unranked because right now no matter how bad you are or how little you actually want to play it's always more rewarding to play Ranked

[Myror.7521]

@ShadowInTheVoid.9183 the only Shadow Side of this rewarding system would be ....... you could actually have no (yes I mean No) top Stat in a Match but still carry it. For example a Warrior as a Sidenote would go for 1v1 or Just 1vX this leads into him gain no top Stats cause his Point will maybe be Always captured (cause he won every matchub). In this case he does not gain any top Stats while get the Point tick for His Team the whole Match (and also kill peops there).  Plus let His teammates maybe gain the upper hand by duelling another Person or simply two persons at the Same time.

 

Just to say it in short you could absolutely carry a Match without any top Stats gained. So with your system, If you want to get rewarded you would need to use mid Fight only classes in a Gamemode that is played with +1/Sidenote/midfights/Roaming roles.

Edited May 19, 2023 by Myror.7521

[The Ace.9105]

On 5/15/2023 at 10:18 PM, RedAvenged.5217 said:

Balance is bad and yet FACTS

1 players getting paid to balance

2 players paying for titles

3 a pvp area where you can afk

4 a daily that gives you gold 

SOLUTION

eliminate HotM, forcing pvpers to do map completion and eliminate the daily gold reward.

 

on top of that charge daily pvpers 10g a day to force them to learn proper fractal mechanics

 

Bad take, can't force ppl to keep playing. Removing pvp would not increase your fractal population. 

Just saying "Become brainless everyone!" with "forcing pvpers to do map completion" (???) just means that all the ppl who play pvp would just completely stop playing the game and that's it. 

The pvp population has already been ignored for years now and that's FACTS.

ps. punching bag pve with low mechanics and skills off cd sucks btw

Edited May 19, 2023 by The Ace.9105

[Wayne.6253]

Just now, The Ace.9105 said:

Bad take, can't force ppl to keep playing. Removing pvp would not increase your fractal population. 

Just saying "Become brainless everyone!" with "forcing pvpers to do map completion" (???) just means that all the ppl who play pvp would just completely stop playing the game and that's it. 

The pvp population has already been ignored for years now and that's FACTS.

ps. punching bag pve with low mechanics and skills off cd sucks btw

Holy words Bro!

I've never played pve, because I consider it a braindead content, and I certainly won't start with GW2, where pvp is the only thing done right and interesting

 

[ShadowInTheVoid.9183]

6 hours ago, Myror.7521 said:

the only Shadow Side of this rewarding system would be ....... you could actually have no (yes I mean No) top Stat in a Match but still carry it. For example a Warrior as a Sidenote would go for 1v1 or Just 1vX this leads into him gain no top Stats cause his Point will maybe be Always captured (cause he won every matchub). In this case he does not gain any top Stats while get the Point tick for His Team the whole Match (and also kill peops there).  Plus let His teammates maybe gain the upper hand by duelling another Person or simply two persons at the Same time.

 

Just to say it in short you could absolutely carry a Match without any top Stats gained. So with your system, If you want to get rewarded you would need to use mid Fight only classes in a Gamemode that is played with +1/Sidenote/midfights/Roaming roles.

To be clear I am not talking about actually using the Top Stat aware itself but they could give idea's of categories that get rewarded for. Part of it could be based on how much you contributed to the team as a % but part of it could just be a flat reward based on what you did and nothing else.

In your example a sidenoder would almost always be capturing or defending a node, they would be doing DPS on anyone they are fighting and kill at least a few people.

The aim would be that even if you are the worst player in the game or have a team of AFKers or whatever you are always better just carrying on and having a go because the more you play the more you earn.

 

Right now people just see that they're loosing and give up because there is no reward for trying.

[Kuma.1503]

On 5/16/2023 at 5:41 PM, Multicolorhipster.9751 said:

Then like every game/sport winning should be winning and losing should be losing.

A good middle ground would be removing the reward that's given just for showing up in Ranked.

That reward; given for absolutely nothing, is Anathema to effort, and if you're passionate about a game, sport, or any activity then you're going to want your peers to put in some themselves, even knowing it's all in the context of a game.

Because if we all turn into do-nothing AFK leechlords, then people are only really having fun in the same way the crackheads in San Francisco are having fun. Like yeah; kind of, but not really.

People underestimate the value of deferred gratification and self-sacrifice. There's something to actually be proud of.

Giving players rewards for losing is fine. Especially with matchmaking being as brutal as it is. A bronze going up against a team of golds+ was doomed to lose from the start, they've earned some pity cash for their efforts. Especially when they're thrown into that sceanrio on repeat due to low population. 

The problem is that Anet is too lazy to do anything about bots or AFK. If someone sits in base for too long in a game, give that player an infraction,  remove all rating gain/loss for that game, and give players the option to leave the match early if they wish. ( Dota 2 system). If it happens on reapeat, ban. If cheaters/wintraders exploit it, ban. 

If a player leaves base, but doesn't deal any damage, contritube any caputure point progress, heal anyone, ect. flag them as AFK. 

If someone plays an inhuman amount of games every season, put that account up for automatic review, if 3rd party programs are detected, instant perma ban. 

 

Anet needs to be harder on the players who are not playing by the rules. Not on the people just trying to PvP and get get better. 

Edited May 19, 2023 by Kuma.1503

[Bazsi.2734]

I love how the forum posts "there has been no PvP update in 5 years" and "stop coddling PvP players" are right next to each other.

[Multicolorhipster.9751]

On 5/19/2023 at 2:09 AM, ShadowInTheVoid.9183 said:

Actually, isn't the solution to reward people for their individual actions rather then only reward/punishing them with the team?

Points based on how much damage you put out, how much healing you did, how offensive or defensive you were, how much you interacted with stage stuff like killed the lord or fired the cannons etc.

It's already done that way with extra pips being awarded for each top stat and for a near-victory bonus.

"Rewards are gained from completing reward tracks. There are six different tracks with increasingly valuable rewards. The last track is repeatable. Each track consists of a number of tiers. To complete a tier, one needs to earn 20 to 30 pips depending on the track. Pips are earned by winning and losing matches and earning top stats. Winning a match will award 10 pips, losing a match will award 3 pips, and earning any amount of top stats will earn 1 pip. Losing a ranked match with a score equal to or greater than 80% of the winning team’s score will award a Near Victory bonus worth 2 pips. Being in the Platinum division will also award you with 2 extra pips after each game and being in the Legendary division will award you 4. This reward track resets once per season, unlike the weekly reset of the WvW equivalent."

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/PvP_League#Rewards

On 5/19/2023 at 2:09 AM, ShadowInTheVoid.9183 said:

Then if you get a AFKer they sit there and get no rewards and the remaining players get rewarded for still playing and not giving up

That's not how it works in practice because you get 3 pips just for losing, and only 1 for each top stat you manage to get and then 2 if you manage to make up the score difference.

Notice how the rewards that actually require effort and some degree of success award less than what is given just for showing up.

Typically people usually AFK when they're already losing and they feel the game has been hopelessly lost, so they aren't getting or even attempting to earn the rewards that require effort, making them redundant.

Otherwise I think a near-win bonus and bonus pips for top stats are good idea because that encourages people to play the game. It's the participation award which has no place in a self-declared "competitive mode"

On 5/19/2023 at 2:09 AM, ShadowInTheVoid.9183 said:

If there is no reward for losing at all then people will just give up sooner and AFK more because why would they try?

This is contradictory to basic common sense.

If I told you to quit your job right now, would you do it? No reason other than me telling you to do it. Would you do it? No, right?
Now what if I told you to quit your job but offered you money, lovers, anything thy heart desires, and a brand new car as compensation?

Which deal would you be more likely to take?

If you don't want someone to do something, you don't reward them for doing that something.

On 5/19/2023 at 2:09 AM, ShadowInTheVoid.9183 said:

We also need the season reward chests on Unranked because right now no matter how bad you are or how little you actually want to play it's always more rewarding to play Ranked

I wholeheartedly agree with you there, and by that idea alone, accept my blue heart and heed my highest praise. 🙏

Participation awards are a casual reward and the casual gamemode is exactly where they belong.

That change alone would eliminate much of the vitriol and toxicity in Ranked because forcing casual and competitive-minded players to compete together will always be a terrible idea. Plus this would give some unranked some actual purpose.

[Multicolorhipster.9751]

On 5/19/2023 at 11:07 AM, Kuma.1503 said:

Giving players rewards for losing is fine. Especially with matchmaking being as brutal as it is. A bronze going up against a team of golds+ was doomed to lose from the start, they've earned some pity cash for their efforts. Especially when they're thrown into that sceanrio on repeat due to low population. 

I want to preface this entry by first saying that I have the utmost love and respect for you, and I consider you to be one of this forum's most valuable members in mind, body, and soul. 🙏

But I respectfully disagree. Giving players a reward for losing in Ranked (the self-labeled competitive PvP gamemode) is not fine. I believe matchmaking is brutal as a symptom of this very fact, and more. The low population makes matchmaking bad as well, yes, but bad matchmaking alone doesn't excuse the actions of AFKers.

They do what they do because they're rewarded for doing it. Under righteous circumstances, there would be no cause to AFK without it being anything but a spiteful act that the entire team suffers for, worthy of nothing but the most resolute condemnation. But these are unrighteous circumstances where that behavior is only reinforced and never punished.

Play a game with some competitive integrity, and you will immediately note the difference in player attitude. When it's win or lose, that encourages cohesion and effort. A few months back, I returned to Gw2 Ranked to sample 10 Ranked games(placements) and I won 7 of those 10 games, but 9 of those 10 games were blowout matches with AFKs present in them. 

The attitude very much becomes; the moment a team wipes or goes down by 100+ score, "I'm getting paid anyway, so effort is highly optional." They're not having fun, and I can assure you their teammates definitely aren't having fun, especially if they're playing Ranked for what it is meant for; competition. A single moment of laxity spawns a lifetime of heresy.

On 5/19/2023 at 11:07 AM, Kuma.1503 said:

The problem is that Anet is too lazy to do anything about bots or AFK. If someone sits in base for too long in a game, give that player an infraction,  remove all rating gain/loss for that game, and give players the option to leave the match early if they wish. ( Dota 2 system). If it happens on reapeat, ban. If cheaters/wintraders exploit it, ban. 

If a player leaves base, but doesn't deal any damage, contritube any caputure point progress, heal anyone, ect. flag them as AFK. 

If someone plays an inhuman amount of games every season, put that account up for automatic review, if 3rd party programs are detected, instant perma ban. 

I believe this to be true like I said before, Arenanet has never done anything about the rampant AFKing and match manipulation in Ranked sPvP. Hope is the currency of misery; being founded in misery, and perpetuating itself through disappointment.

I think it safe to say; after all these years, they're not going to start punishing AFKers anytime soon. By removing the reward given just for being there, or sliding it on over to Unranked where it really belongs, Ranked will be protected autonomously.

On 5/19/2023 at 11:07 AM, Kuma.1503 said:

Anet needs to be harder on the players who are not playing by the rules. Not on the people just trying to PvP and get get better. 

Truth, kindred. Truth. I've crawled through Hel itself just to type this response. No weapon that is formed against you will ever prosper, and every tongue that accuses you in judgment, you will condemn to merciful oblivion. In righteousness. 🙏