When is necro going to be good?

[Swan.9815]

1 hour ago, Obtena.7952 said:

I excluded the first one specifically in this case because if someone decides to continue playing 2nd health bar necro even if it doesn't work for them and they think it needs to be fix, then it's not actually the big problem they claim that Anet needs to fix in the first place. 

This right here is the core of the problem. You think that playing 2nd health bar necro and thinking it needs to be fixed are this mutually exclusive thing when they aren't.

As far as I can tell no one in this thread has said how much they love having a 2nd health bar (kinda the opposite), but let's say that the 2nd health bar is the only reason someone likes necro. What about their love of playing 2nd health bar necro has to do with thinking it is broken and needs fixing? A thing can be fixed without breaking what made it fun to someone in the first place.

[Obtena.7952]

10 minutes ago, Swan.9815 said:

This right here is the core of the problem. You think that playing 2nd health bar necro and thinking it needs to be fixed are this mutually exclusive thing when they aren't.

As far as I can tell no one in this thread has said how much they love having a 2nd health bar (kinda the opposite), but let's say that the 2nd health bar is the only reason someone likes necro. What about their love of playing 2nd health bar necro has to do with thinking it is broken and needs fixing? A thing can be fixed without breaking what made it fun to someone in the first place.

No, I don't think that at all and it should be obvious I don't think that because I stated that continuing to play 2nd health bar necro is an option even if people can't get it to work for them or it doesn't work the way they want it. I don't think it's a good option to do that, so I'm suggesting they don't. 

The actual core of the problem is that Anet can't cater to everything that some people think is a problem (and no, let's not just assume that 2nd health bar is broken and needs to be fixed to make my suggestion absurd either.).

Therefore, I think the most reasonable action someone can take in that situation is to play other things if the thing they play doesn't work for them based on the options we have to choose from. That's the BEST indicator that Anet can get from players to show there is an issue with specific choices. I mean, in the extreme case, if a spec went to 0% usage ... that's a clear indication of an issue. You don't think Anet would make that a priority?

Edited June 15, 2023 by Obtena.7952

[Swan.9815]

5 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Therefore, It's the most reasonable option to suggest people play other things if the thing they play doesn't work for them based on the options we have to choose from. 

You weren't suggesting, you were just telling people what to do, all the option stuff came later when you got called out.  

 

10 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

That's the BEST indicator that Anet can get from players to show there is an issue with specific choices. I mean, in the extreme case, if a spec went to 0% usage ... that's a clear indication of an issue. You don't think Anet would make that a priority?

So you are saying the BEST option is the one where only after an extreme case Anet will do anything?

[Obtena.7952]

55 minutes ago, Swan.9815 said:

You weren't suggesting, you were just telling people what to do, all the option stuff came later when you got called out.  

In the end, the decision is with the player so I'm not really concerned about how people are triggered by what or how I'm saying things here. But, what is a suggestion if it's not telling people what I think they should do? Somehow those things are different in your mind. I'm OK with not seeing that difference because it doesn't change the truth of what I'm saying. 

55 minutes ago, Swan.9815 said:

So you are saying the BEST option is the one where only after an extreme case Anet will do anything?

Again, I outlined the three options. I think the best one for someone playing something that doesn't work for them is to play something else. I've explained why, including the part of my post you quoted. That's completely reasonable given the options available to us. I think it is the best option regardless of whatever Anet decides to do because people can always make other choices whenever they want based on anything they want, including if Anet makes some changes to the game. 

Edited June 16, 2023 by Obtena.7952

[Swan.9815]

16 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:

But, what is a suggestion if it's not telling people what I think they should do?

It's the holier-than-thou attitude that's the difference. 

You've also proven the original statement you made is in fact unreasonable because you've had to spend several messages flailing around trying to justify it until you landed on this "I'm just giving people options" line that was no where in your original statement.

[Obtena.7952]

1 hour ago, Swan.9815 said:

You've also proven the original statement you made is in fact unreasonable ...

Nothing of the sort has been proven, especially not by myself because there was nothing unreasonable about the statement in the first place. Playing something else is a completely reasonable option for people who are playing things that don't work for them. That's true regardless of whatever sensitivities you have about how I said it. 

Edited June 16, 2023 by Obtena.7952

[Swan.9815]

14 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

. Playing something else is a completely reasonable option for people who are playing things that don't work for them.

Again with the options thing that was no where in your original statement. Just admit your original statement was flawed.

[Obtena.7952]

55 minutes ago, Swan.9815 said:

Again with the options thing that was no where in your original statement. Just admit your original statement was flawed.

There won't be any such admission because there is nothing flawed about making a suggestion to someone without listing every option available to them and because the suggestion itself is reasonable. 

But for fun, how about you admit the suggestion is reasonable without being triggered by it?

Edited June 16, 2023 by Obtena.7952

[Swan.9815]

1 hour ago, Obtena.7952 said:

But for fun, how about YOU admit that playing something else is a completely reasonable option for people who are playing things that don't work for them

I agree that playing something else is a completely reasonable option for people who are playing things that don't work for them. Had you just said that in the first place we could have saved a lot of time, but you didn't. Instead you doubled down and just said you were right and after several posts added in the part about options.

Is this new version what you meant when you said the original statement? Maybe, but it's not what you actually said and I don't live inside your head to know that's what you meant.

[Obtena.7952]

19 minutes ago, Swan.9815 said:

I agree that playing something else is a completely reasonable option for people who are playing things that don't work for them. 

Is this new version what you meant when you said the original statement? 

No, it's the same thing. When I suggested people play other things because what they play doesn't work for them ... and you were initially triggered by it, it was reasonable then, it's reasonable now, it will always be reasonable. The consistency of that message hasn't changed once in this thread and it won't change either because I believe it regardless of how badly you want to win some weird argument, even though you admit you agree with what I'm saying. 🤷‍♂️

Edited June 16, 2023 by Obtena.7952

[Swan.9815]

10 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

No, it's the same thing. When I suggested people play other things and you were initially triggered by it, it was reasonable then, it's reasonable now, it will always be reasonable. Nothing I'm saying is changing here. 

No one is triggered here but you. You said something, got called out on it and changed what you were saying.

I'd also like to point out that every single reply you have had to me has been edited after the fact. I'm not accusing you of anything out right, it's just not a good look.

 

[Obtena.7952]

15 minutes ago, Swan.9815 said:

 You said something, got called out on it and changed what you were saying.

Just to be clear, my message has not changed, not even once in this thread. 

If people are playing things that don't work for them, it's reasonable to suggest they play something else, like I have. 

Edited June 16, 2023 by Obtena.7952

[Swan.9815]

15 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Just to be clear, my message has not changed, not even once in this thread. 

You can keep asserting that, but it doesn't make it true. You've gone from telling people to stop playing the class to manipulate the metrics to make Anet look at the class, to:

 

15 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

If people are playing things that don't work for them, it's reasonable to suggest they play something else. 

Those two things are not the same.

Edited June 16, 2023 by Swan.9815

[Obtena.7952]

31 minutes ago, Swan.9815 said:

You've gone from telling people to stop playing the class to manipulate the metrics to make Anet look at the class, to:

Hold on .. that's just not accurate representation of what I said at all. I never advise people stop playing the class to manipulate metrics. I' said that people playing classes they don't like skews the metrics in a direction that is opposing the desired result, which is for Anet to take notice of things that might be wrong with the class. And therefore ... people playing other things is a reasonable option for them and results in more accurate data for Anet. 

But what is interesting is that ... I can point out how people are skewing data Anet uses to monitor class health AND point out they can play other things if what they play doesn't work for them ... and that isn't a problem because there is relation there where one of those statements supports the other. Those things live together very nicely and the fact that anyone would try to point out I made them in the same thread is absurd if they don't see the relationship that I already explained. I mean, FOR YOU it seems to be a problem because you are trying very hard to SOMEWHERE to  save some face from your initial over reaction to what I'm saying, but that's not really a concern for me. 

 

Edited June 16, 2023 by Obtena.7952

[Swan.9815]

27 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

I never advise people stop playing the class to manipulate metrics.

21 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Therefore, I think the most reasonable action someone can take in that situation is to play other things if the thing they play doesn't work for them based on the options we have to choose from. That's the BEST indicator that Anet can get from players to show there is an issue with specific choices. I mean, in the extreme case, if a spec went to 0% usage ... that's a clear indication of an issue. You don't think Anet would make that a priority?

I believe you when you say that that was not your intention, but it still can come off that way. That's kind of been what this is all about, sometimes what we intend to say is not what others hear. You meant to say that people have the option to stop playing the class, but it came off more as you demanding that they stop airing their grievances in the forum and just stop playing the class. 

27 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

I mean, FOR YOU it seems to be a problem because you are trying very hard to SOMEWHERE to  save some face from your initial over reaction to what I'm saying, but that's not really a concern for me. 

What a strange accusation, I just saw someone be wrong on the internet and was pointing it out then they doubled down so I did the same, and eventually they somewhat admitted (through actions, not words) they were wrong and a I agreed with their new version of what they said. If it's of no concern for you why even bring it up?

 

[Junkpile.7439]

Necromancer only problem is lack of stability and stun breaks. 

[Crystal Paladin.3871]

16 hours ago, Junkpile.7439 said:

Necromancer only problem is lack of stability and stun breaks. 

Shroud3, "you're all weaklings", spectarmor, spectwalk, wellofpower, trailanguish

FIFY

Edited June 19, 2023 by Crystal Paladin.3871

[Crystal Paladin.3871]

Is this a meme thread? Is necro really bad?

[Junkpile.7439]

2 hours ago, Crystal Paladin.3871 said:

Shroud3, "you're all weaklings", spectarmor, spectwalk, wellofpower, trailanguish

FIFY

But you need to use at least one well and epidemic.

[DEATHsCLAW.1978]

9 hours ago, Crystal Paladin.3871 said:

Is this a meme thread? Is necro really bad?

pve: no, there will be viable builds post patch

competitive (pvp/wvw): yes

[Lalary.3561]

18 hours ago, DEATHsCLAW.1978 said:

pve: no, there will be viable builds post patch

competitive (pvp/wvw): yes

Necro bad in WvW? Cele Harbinger says hi.

[Dadnir.5038]

20 hours ago, DEATHsCLAW.1978 said:

pve: no, there will be viable builds post patch

competitive (pvp/wvw): yes

Let me correct you:

• PvE: Indeed there will still be viable builds post patch (Heal scourge might fall out of flavor but power reaper and condi harb won't be shaken by the patch).
• WvW: Necromancer will continue to be meta there for the same reason it's been meta for the last 10 years (Necromancer have been the boon hate king forever in WvW and the patch isn't going to change this fact. In any way, conditions are already instantly cleansed so boon convertion or boon rip... If anything, the necromancer's competition on it's niche is weakened in this patch).
• sPvP: Like in PvE, there will still be viable builds post patch (Currently procmancer is meta and various builds that aren't impacted by the patch are considered good. This will make no difference after the patch).

[Esufer.8762]

necromancer good

[Burnfall.9573]

On 6/5/2023 at 5:36 PM, Vile.4387 said:

I need stealth teleports to players with 20k damage instantly, or faceroll with every boon in the game to dive and deal damage while blocking at the same time. When do necro's get to do stuff like that? Don't tell me harbinger either, they are the most masochistic low life garbage characters in the game, needs dedicated healbot to keep me alive. When do I get stability? When do I get escapes and mobility worth using? I want to teleport around like a mexican jumping bean, then flee when I am at 25% health. Maybe I can get stealth to break line of sight, or maybe a way to detect it instead? Possibly a great way to combat those people that like to facetank all my damage, then one shot me from 1500 meters. Maybe I can go invisible and then oneshot people from stealth, or perhaps get multiple clones of me to soak up AOE attacks that tickle me anyways. Who needs damage when your entire purpose is to boonrip in zerg fights. What do I do when I am not in a zerg, and just die to everything in the game? Why does necro suck? "Necro's are pretty good." - Anet Dev

Anet Philosophy for Necromancer Profession, is to be The Designated Scapegoat Profession. To be blamed and be held accountable, for the root cause Toxic state of the game including its defects.

Throughout the years; Anet has successfully assigned Necromancer Profession role to being The Scapegoat Profession.

Anet has successfully assigned Necromancer Profession Philosophy..as a False Sense of Temporary Importance, Care and Happiness; to only have it taken away from it.

With so much success, Anet has convinced Necromancer Profession players to be ashamed of themselves, to feel bad about themselves, to feel responsible for being the root cause of the game Toxic state and its defects.

Necromancer Profession know the feeling of Rejection, Isolation, Abandonment, in all game modes.

Being every Professions "Punching Bag", the last one left behind.

"Once a Scapegoat, will always be a Scapegoat"

-Necromancer Profession--Scapegoat Profession Forever...

Feeling Worthlessness, Helplessness, Rejection, Maltreatment, with False Sense Of Happiness and with Low State of Being..Trauma...while Anet robs it from its Identity and roles, to empower and to please, their Favorite-Perfect Profession--Thief Profession

 

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shroud

 

~~Sympathy For Necromancer Profession~~

Edited June 20, 2023 by Burnfall.9573

[Cuks.8241]

This thread is a joke right? Necro competing for the class with all time most meta build options across all game modes.