Is Virt limited to just instanced stuffs...??

[Joxer.6024]

Ok, so really wanna play Virtuoso as i like that one elite can be both power and condi, no need for other builds\specs and such. But....I do play alot of OW stuffs and have been "told" (youtubes, etc.) that it kinda blows in that area. Hizen flat out hates it for open but then again what he builds is for really strong open world solo stuffs, Champs and the like, where I am not quite on that level.

Guildjen and Metabattle both have builds but are they just clickbait or are they builds that truely work?

So I ask, does anyone play Virt out in the open and if so how is it? I think condi is the strongest option but am not 100%, so feel free to clue me in. Cheers!  😉

[Ashantara.8731]

3 minutes ago, Joxer.6024 said:

So I ask, does anyone play Virt out in the open and if so how is it?

One of my OW characters is Virtuoso, and I have no issues whatsoever. You might not have big instant burst damage, but enemies still go down fairly quickly.

[Joxer.6024]

29 minutes ago, Ashantara.8731 said:

One of my OW characters is Virtuoso, and I have no issues whatsoever. You might not have big instant burst damage, but enemies still go down fairly quickly.

yea burning things down is not an issue with me, dont mind it tsking a bit, just dont want to be a super squish!  😉

What build\spec you use?

[Dayra.7405]

Marauder (with mixed in dragon, such that crit is 100% with bufs) for power in OW.

Very useful for sustain is life-steal on crit food, e.g. the quite cheap https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Scoop_of_Mintberry_Swirl_Ice_Cream

Edited June 7, 2023 by Dayra.7405

[draxynnic.3719]

For the sort of stuff Hizen does, virt is outclassed by mirage, but it'll do fairly well in open world for anything that isn't soloing group event bosses, and it's probably better in situations where you're having to deal with large numbers of relatively trashy mobs where a mirage would have trouble keeping their clones up. Horses for courses.

[Joxer.6024]

3 minutes ago, Dayra.7405 said:

Marauder (with mixed in dragon, such that crit is 100% with bufs) for power in OW.

Very useful is life-leach on crit food, e.g. the quite cheap https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Scoop_of_Mintberry_Swirl_Ice_Cream

i actually thought full cele would be the ticket...good to know! Cheers!

[draxynnic.3719]

1 minute ago, Joxer.6024 said:

i actually thought full cele would be the ticket...good to know! Cheers!

Virt is probably one spec where cele doesn't really work. A power virt isn't really going to be making use of the condition-oriented attributes, while a condi virt really needs 100% crit chance, or close to it, in order to function properly.

[Zhaid Zhem.6508]

About OW already you should be careful about what the Hizen and others big shots could say.
They involve "solo bounty" they put celestial everywhere; but for 99% of players OW is about farming pack of mobs quickly.

Virtuoso is really good, you have range, cleave, sustain, reasonable burst ... what do you expect more ?

[Joxer.6024]

Just now, Zhaid Zhem.6508 said:

About OW already you should be careful about what the Hizen and others big shots could say.
They involve "solo bounty" they put celestial everywhere; but for 99% of players OW is about farming pack of mobs quickly.

Virtuoso is really good, you have range, cleave, sustain, reasonable burst ... what do you expect more ?

good to know!!!

[Joxer.6024]

thanks guys!! you have renewed my faith! I shall go forward.  😉

[draxynnic.3719]

1 minute ago, Zhaid Zhem.6508 said:

About OW already you should be careful about what the Hizen and others big shots could say.
They involve "solo bounty" they put celestial everywhere; but for 99% of players OW is about farming pack of mobs quickly.

I think this is something that Nike has directly acknowledged. Their builds are designed to deal with the hard stuff that requires special builds to handle, but if you're not planning to solo stuff that wasn't intended to be soloed, a raid build with maybe a few concessions to additional durability (such as taking marauder instead of berserker, taking one defensive traitline rather than all in on damage traitlines, and/or taking a couple of defensive utilities) will do the job more often than not, and is what he actually recommends for meta events.

[Ashantara.8731]

56 minutes ago, Joxer.6024 said:

yea burning things down is not an issue with me, dont mind it tsking a bit, just dont want to be a super squish!  😉

What build\spec you use?

I am actually playing all of my characters (mostly) on raid dps gear and builds in OW, because dodging, evading and blocking, as well as using the terrain to your advantage, makes survival gear pretty obsolete in most scenarios. I rarely ever die.

Edited June 7, 2023 by Ashantara.8731

[Joxer.6024]

1 hour ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

Virt is probably one spec where cele doesn't really work. A power virt isn't really going to be making use of the condition-oriented attributes, while a condi virt really needs 100% crit chance, or close to it, in order to function properly.

let me ask then...why do site like Guildjen and meta show builds using said cele, if it truly isnt the best? Kinda misleading for sure, and an expensive mistake for one to make!  😉

[Dayra.7405]

27 minutes ago, Joxer.6024 said:

let me ask then...why do site like Guildjen and meta show builds using said cele, if it truly isnt the best? Kinda misleading for sure, and an expensive mistake for one to make!  😉

Cele for sure has more sustain, and if you start quite new into the expansions, that likely pays off, but your bleeding depends mainly on crits, so you loose a lot damage on non crits. So Cele is more defensive and if you die to often in Marauder (with lvl 10 jade-core) go for Cele. But the better and more familiar with the areas you get the less defensive you need to be.

Edited June 7, 2023 by Dayra.7405

[draxynnic.3719]

5 hours ago, Joxer.6024 said:

let me ask then...why do site like Guildjen and meta show builds using said cele, if it truly isnt the best? Kinda misleading for sure, and an expensive mistake for one to make!  😉

Had to go hunting for the builds in question.

The metabattle build is WvW-oriented and... that's a bit of a weird build. Like someone took the idea of a tanky mirage or core mesmer build and decided to apply it to virtuoso instead. Sceptre and staff on a virtuoso are... well, I guess they have their reasons, but the damage done by clones is a not-insignificant part of the damage from staff and sceptre, so it's a bit of a strange choice. Maybe they've done the numbers and make up for it elsewhere. Either way, that build isn't using Jagged Mind, so the reliance on critical hits isn't there.

Vallun's version is a bit harder to work out. Seems to be another "solo champions" build, giving up a bit of damage for a lot of extra defences. Losing some of the bleeds due to having lower crit chance seems to be something he's deliberately given up for that.

[raido.4073]

virtuoso celes work well in OW the crit problem isn't as bad as deadeye.

This is what i use : http://gw2skills.net/editor/?Pi1AgqFllyWZtsLmLWOP+xfA-zxIY1ozvMioiiNF9cAqA-e

you're not totally crit cap (you're roughly at 90%+ depending of gear quality) but it's not game breaking, the pistol is for the bleed and defiance bar break (you can easily proc duelist discipline on champion with mantra of distraction).

I use a greatsword to gain some aoe power since mirror blade, mindstab and phantasmal berserker are considered blade attack but you can also just use another offhand if you're good at dealing with group with the dagger.

You can change sword of decimation for what you want or need, blink can be changed but it help a lot to place yourself properly for the best thousand cut or just to keep in the back/flank of the enemy to proc the thief rune or simply dodge or flee.

The problem is underwater you need to change most utility skill but seem to be a problem for a lot of class and build but otherwise it work correctly to do underwater event even champion with the trident.

 

Edited June 7, 2023 by raido.4073

[draxynnic.3719]

That's a valid point - classic condivirt is dependent on being able to throw a lot of blades around, so if you're going underwater where you can't use dagger or greatsword, you might be better off with cele or viper. At that point, though, I'd be sorely tempted to just switch to a chrono or mirage build. Or power virt.

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

I've had no problems with it.  I generally run Chronomancer for the run speed boost, but I have taken Virt into the overworld many times.  The main advantage to virt is that its resource system doesn't hook on to other enemies, letting you stack up blades for quick kills and tagging without worry.  The power variants are better at handling weaker enemies, but the condi variants are better at handling champions and world bosses.  Condi virt has an underrated amount of self-sustain built into it's toolkit, which makes it great at fighting those HP-sponge champs we see in later expansions.  

[Eekasqueak.7850]

I use a full glass 100% crit chance Condi virt for open world just fine, the long range helps a lot. 

[Joxer.6024]

so its looking like condi is the way to go, what with the sustain and such. Okies, will give it a go and thanks all for all the info!!!!!   

[anbujackson.9564]

Its pretty much as op in OW as scourge. Condi of course.

You got sustain from your dealt condi damage, you have f4 and f5 as additional "dodges", you are fully ranged, you are flexible in your utility, good cc, a pull on focus, another block on sword.

And one big advantage for your solo dps: you generate a lot of vulnerability. 

You can even switch a trait or two in Illusions for self quickness. Maybe in solo play the quickness outvalues the lost damage from the other traits even.

Pretty much every good aspect in instanced content is a plus in OW too.

Edited June 9, 2023 by anbujackson.9564

[SlayerXX.7138]

On 6/7/2023 at 8:38 AM, Joxer.6024 said:

So I ask, does anyone play Virt out in the open and if so how is it? I think condi is the strongest option but am not 100%, so feel free to clue me in. Cheers! 

It is pretty decent. The big problem is: No elegant way to self buff. Full stack of might is huge. Full ascended berserker gear gives 1381 Power. Full might gives 750 Power. Condi Virt needs his precision like any power build would, which makes it unable to relocate stats to utility or survival like other Condi builds can. Depending on you skill level that is only relevant if you want to solo stuff that isn't meant to be soloed. For normal OW play you can just copy the snow crow build. Maybe slot in a Sigil of strength for situation in which you are solo to get that sweat might.
In short: Everything that makes Virt good in group content, makes it good in OW. It just can't go over the top in solo situation's like other specs can.

[Monchichi.9301]

Open world cvirt is great. I use a mix of cele and rampager to get to 100% crit (60% from gear) and most things die before they kill me. The blades fill up really fast vs groups, and F1, F2, rain of swords and the elite is a lot of burst damage even though it is condi. But I use F4 and F5 a lot for survivability.  

And I don't really do much champ or bounty solos. Just mainly metas, bounty trains and random achieves. I think mirage is better solo vs very strong enemies. 

Taking away the block on f5 may change my OW playstyle quite a bit. I'm not sure how it will play after that or if I will still like it. 

[mungozen.2379]

On 6/10/2023 at 12:41 AM, SlayerXX.7138 said:

It is pretty decent. The big problem is: No elegant way to self buff. Full stack of might is huge. Full ascended berserker gear gives 1381 Power. Full might gives 750 Power. Condi Virt needs his precision like any power build would, which makes it unable to relocate stats to utility or survival like other Condi builds can. Depending on you skill level that is only relevant if you want to solo stuff that isn't meant to be soloed. For normal OW play you can just copy the snow crow build. Maybe slot in a Sigil of strength for situation in which you are solo to get that sweat might.
In short: Everything that makes Virt good in group content, makes it good in OW. It just can't go over the top in solo situation's like other specs can.

Chaos Condi Virt using the Jade Protocols can solo most OW content.  Limitations include most Legendary Bounties and Some Champ Bounties or equivalent content. 
 

If you aren’t using the Jade Protocols you are nerfing your open world experience by losing as much as half if not more of your potential DPS (profession dependent)

[SlayerXX.7138]

2 hours ago, Mungo Zen.9364 said:

If you aren’t using the Jade Protocols you are nerfing your open world experience by losing as much as half if not more of your potential DPS (profession dependent)

The only place where you need the buff are champion level encounter. In This case the buffs fall of anyway. Protocols only speeds things up, but they don't bring you over the edge in most cases. 

2 hours ago, Mungo Zen.9364 said:

Chaos Condi Virt using the Jade Protocols can solo most OW content.  Limitations include most Legendary Bounties and Some Champ Bounties or equivalent content.

Which makes it decent. It does everything you want from dedicated OW build. Being decent doesn't equal bad my friend. Just saying if I face some champion solo I rather have my celestial deatheye or whatever rev build hizen cooked up this month, then a Virtuoso.

Edited June 12, 2023 by SlayerXX.7138