mirage dead on patch - second dodge back

[JazzXman.7018]

6 hours ago, Terrorhuz.4695 said:

Well, they probably touched a significant amount of old systems to do that; it's impossible doesn't mean "it can never be done" , it mostly means "it requires way too much effort and we can't do that without accepting a significant risk of regressions and bugs on other unrelated things; also even if everything went well, it takes a lot of time we don't have right now". Right now they are updating a lot of old systems (DX11, rebalancing old bosses, IIRC they touched even collision data some months ago and that is a kittening nightmare let me tell you); I wouldn't go as far as to say they are going to work on dungeons, which are probably the most clusterkittened pieces of code in the game, but now they were given the time and resources to partially unspaghettify old code, and that's what they're doing.

well if it is like you say then they should have communicated that way waaaay better and sooner. esp after they (here cmc esp.) let us down after doing months of work as a community to provide ideas how to balance out mirage and mc better than with deleting one dodge. and that after he promised to take a look and give feedback to the doc.

Overall i dont mind that they removed the ability to dodge while being stunned/immobed, but 

1. i dont think that solves all balance problems the spec has and 
2. mc also only was a problem when looked at in a vacuum, means outside of the whole mirage mechanic it was put in. if you look at the whole mirage mechanics (at least how it should be in terms of mechanical ambush design) then you see that even the old mc could have been balanced out without removing the (by itself) broken ability to dodge while being hard cced.

The sad thing is, that the changes i (and also others in the document i sent to cmc) suggested would have balanced out mc without removing the ability to dodge while being hard cced while also fixing the other problems mirage still has. Means more value for the same amount or even less work for anet than re-coding the split of mc..
But even if the mechanical redesign of ambushes and some traits (like making IH a minor trait after nerfing it to a pure utility trait with deleting the dmg from clone ambushes on all weapons as we have it on sword already) and balance the major gm traits around that)  is a bit more work: that more effort would benefit the game and the spec insane by making mirage more balanced, fair and more skillbased, less braindead spammy with all weapons.

And the simple key to do that is (to name only one concept of the document), to make ambushes mainly utility based, instead direct dmg  being their main reward (no matter if condi or power dmg). This still needs to be done so badly, even with the new mc version!
 

[viquing.8254]

On 6/18/2023 at 5:16 PM, Morwath.9817 said:

Mirage wasn't supposed to 1v1 to begin with. He should be forced to "give up points". Personaly I believe Mirage was supposed to be more mobile version of Mesmer due to leap on sword ambush. 

From my own personal experience, as someone playing FB after PoF launch, I'd rather have Misha on my team playing Mirage, rather than average plat Scrouge. So I don't think Mirage was actualy lacking much, just as I said somewhere else, some classes and/or specs require too much skill and effort to unlock their full potential vs average.

Anyway, thing I wanted to point out (in post you quoted orginaly) was if they would decide to return Mirage to what it was after PoF launch, it would wreck everything. I'd dare to say, that no single e-spec is as strong as PoF e-specs on their arrival. Mirage wasn't feeling super OP back then, because other e-specs released along side with him were completly broken, but they ain't anymore. It's all about context. 

Ofc old mirage in the current situation where everyone was nerfed will be op.

But considering the vigor multiple removal, the multiples ambushes nerf, same for CD, traits (all because 2 evades and CC while evading on the  past.). Even by just bringing back 2 evade it will not overperform.

[Jojo.6590]

On 6/18/2023 at 5:41 PM, JazzXman.7018 said:

The sad thing is, that the changes i (and also others in the document i sent to cmc) suggested would have balanced out mc without removing the ability to dodge while being hard cced while also fixing the other problems mirage still has. Means more value for the same amount or even less work for anet than re-coding the split of mc..
But even if the mechanical redesign of ambushes and some traits (like making IH a minor trait after nerfing it to a pure utility trait with deleting the dmg from clone ambushes on all weapons as we have it on sword already) and balance the major gm traits around that)  is a bit more work: that more effort would benefit the game and the spec insane by making mirage more balanced, fair and more skillbased, less braindead spammy with all weapons.

And the simple key to do that is (to name only one concept of the document), to make ambushes mainly utility based, instead direct dmg  being their main reward (no matter if condi or power dmg). This still needs to be done so badly, even with the new mc version!

WB..sorta.

[magickthief.6492]

Noice to see that previously mirage mains claimed that they could live with a fair version of cloak of they had two dodges back. Specifically not useable during stuns and such, nor immobile. Odd how the tone changed when that was given. Typical.

[Leonidrex.5649]

11 minutes ago, magickthief.6492 said:

Noice to see that previously mirage mains claimed that they could live with a fair version of cloak of they had two dodges back. Specifically not useable during stuns and such, nor immobile. Odd how the tone changed when that was given. Typical.

for sure, has nothing to do with 150 nerfs we got in between point A and point B
🤡

[magickthief.6492]

3 hours ago, Leonidrex.5649 said:

for sure, has nothing to do with 150 nerfs we got in between point A and point B
🤡

You are literally one of those described. Hide

[semak.7481]

3 hours ago, magickthief.6492 said:

Noice to see that previously mirage mains claimed that they could live with a fair version of cloak of they had two dodges back. Specifically not useable during stuns and such, nor immobile. Odd how the tone changed when that was given. Typical.

Not a single nerf to bring it down with "evade while stunned" was brought back. But only more nerfs. 

Meanwhile cata/ele gets more buffs and reworks.

Totally cant understand why are people mad, it requires to be smarter than a potato, innit @Leonidrex.5649 ?

[Leonidrex.5649]

36 minutes ago, semak.7481 said:

Not a single nerf to bring it down with "evade while stunned" was brought back. But only more nerfs. 

Meanwhile cata/ele gets more buffs and reworks.

Totally cant understand why are people mad, it requires to be smarter than a potato, innit @Leonidrex.5649 ?

imagine if all good trait in one of the meta elementialist traitline sgot heavy 50% nerfs.
they would flip their kitten.
mesmer call it tuesday  

[Leonidrex.5649]

53 minutes ago, magickthief.6492 said:

You are literally one of those described. Hide

im not the one hiding behind acc with 62 posts that only whine about mesmer, buddy ol pal.
projecting much ?

[magickthief.6492]

41 minutes ago, semak.7481 said:

Not a single nerf to bring it down with "evade while stunned" was brought back. But only more nerfs. 

Meanwhile cata/ele gets more buffs and reworks.

Totally cant understand why are people mad, it requires to be smarter than a potato, innit @Leonidrex.5649 ?

Mirage

• Mirage can no longer dodge while immobilized or under the effects of crowd control.

You could dodge while stunned, this upcoming update bout to change that... Innit?

[magickthief.6492]

Just now, Leonidrex.5649 said:

im not the one hiding behind acc with 62 posts that only whine about mesmer, buddy ol pal.
projecting much ?

Just 4k out of 5.7k complaining about thief, and the rest to how weak mes is.

[Leonidrex.5649]

Just now, magickthief.6492 said:

Mirage

• Mirage can no longer dodge while immobilized or under the effects of crowd control.

You could dodge while stunned, this upcoming update bout to change that... Innit?

the point went over your head.
anet introduced 100 different nerfs because mesmer " can dodge while cced "
now they removed dodging while cced but they wont undo the 100 different nerfs they did before they made the decision.
They do that a lot while " balancing " mesmer.
For example they were nerfing mesmers vigour for 3 years " because too much dodges ", then they removed the dodge ( didnt undo the vigour nerfs cuz why would they lol )
now they give dodge back ( along with more vigour nerfs XD )

[Leonidrex.5649]

1 minute ago, magickthief.6492 said:

Just 4k out of 5.7k complaining about thief, and the rest to how weak mes is.

im glad you are my avid follower and read them all. stay tuned!

[semak.7481]

10 minutes ago, magickthief.6492 said:

Mirage

• Mirage can no longer dodge while immobilized or under the effects of crowd control.

You could dodge while stunned, this upcoming update bout to change that... Innit?

Why my brain cells have to die because of your posts...?

[Jitters.9401]

On 6/10/2023 at 2:55 PM, Kuma.1503 said:

I'm an ele main and I think the class is getting unfair preferential treatment by ANET. 

Yeah.

That anet guy who mains ele is making himself godmode.

This should be an article in a gaming magazine or in online reviews that an individual has the authority to ruin others fun to give himself a massive advantage... and is doing it.

[Jitters.9401]

On 6/11/2023 at 1:48 PM, WhoWantsAHug.3186 said:

Ok vindi dodge does less damage than split surge and split surge is 1200 range. Common bro.

Range means nothing when your opponent can remain right on top of you the almost the entirety of a figjt, where your attacks won't fire because they are ranged attacks that may pierce but not cleave.  Cleave is a far better mechanic. 

[Jitters.9401]

On 6/15/2023 at 4:01 PM, Bazsi.2734 said:

But you need a reason to nerf reasonably designed things, and ranger currently is not overperforming

Trapper Runes plus the ability to c.c root and reapply that root to an enemy for ridiculous amounts of time.

 

I've had fights where I literally just sat there perma rooted by a ranger. How is that not a ranger overperforming? 

[Terrorhuz.4695]

On 6/18/2023 at 11:41 PM, JazzXman.7018 said:

yaddayaddayadda

Everything is fair and understandable, and I very much agree with the way you feel about your doc beign ignored. BUT.

Put yourself in CmC shoes.
- Community asks WEIRD THING (eg: "change the way mirage dodge works")
- Management says FORGET IT (eg: "it needs months of work, you're facing a significant regression risk, you're working on undocumented and very old parts of the code, it might even turn out to not be doable at all, the company focus currently is somewhere else entirely")

What do you do? You cut the story short: the tldr you give the community is "given the current situation, it's impossible", you don't throw yourself in very convoluted discussions which will still lead nowhere: management said you can't do that and there's no room for change.

The whole situation changed ever since then (and on that, I believe, CmC had no small merit). Currently management shifted focus from "releasing a gazillion new features" to refining old content, and he was allowed to get the months of work necessary to perform this task. If I was a betting boy, I'd say they just tweaked the listener on the "dodge" key and called it a day -if (this.isStunned) return; /* me gud dev huehuehujehue */-, akin to what I think happened with Vindicator, so... nothing EXTREMELY hard to do, I guess? But I do believe he did the right thing for the situation he was in. I'm the first to throw some random bs at the client when I need to cut a discussion short; I have knowledge about the code and the management focus, the details don't need to be 100% true so long as the picture I'm giving you is correct.

Edited June 20, 2023 by Terrorhuz.4695

[SevlisBavles.3059]

44 minutes ago, Terrorhuz.4695 said:

Put yourself in CmC shoes.

Sorry I can't, clown shoes just don't fit me.

[Bazsi.2734]

1 hour ago, Jitters.9401 said:

Trapper Runes plus the ability to c.c root and reapply that root to an enemy for ridiculous amounts of time.

 

I've had fights where I literally just sat there perma rooted by a ranger. How is that not a ranger overperforming? 

If we define overperforming by "I lost to it once" than sure. That's not how everyone else defines it though so... come back when immobspam ranger is overrepresented in PvP winning most matchups in both high and low ratings. It might happen next patch, who knows.

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

3 minutes ago, Bazsi.2734 said:

If we define overperforming by "I lost to it once" than sure. That's not how everyone else defines it though so... come back when immobspam ranger is overrepresented in PvP winning most matchups in both high and low ratings. It might happen next patch, who knows.

While true, nothing gets to this point before the forums decide it might be a problem. Very often do we see brigades on "nerf this" when the thing in question is just slightly annoying. 

All I'm saying is, be consistent with whatever silly balancing philosophy you subscribe to. If "this is annoying" is the cutoff point, then across the board. 

[Jitters.9401]

On 6/20/2023 at 5:21 AM, Bazsi.2734 said:

If we define overperforming by "I lost to it once"

Couple things here....

I did not lose. I never lose to those anymore. My skill isn't the point. 

 

Auto correct changed it from overpowered to overperforming. I think being able to perma cc AND fight very  is overpowered when it is the game skills/traits thay does it for you and not a person's actual talent. 

There should be a pick and choose as to the level of either or, not just freebies. 

 

Edited June 21, 2023 by Jitters.9401

[Leonidrex.5649]

1 hour ago, Jitters.9401 said:

Couple things here....

I did not lose. I never lose to those anymore. My skill isn't the point. 

 

Auto correct changed it from overpowered to overperforming. I think being able to perma cc AND fight very  is overpowered when it is the game skills/traits thay does it for you and not a person's actual talent. 

There should be a pick and choose as to the level of either or, not just freebies. 

 

hammer warrior can do the same kitten, in fact its actually playable, and used to be meta.
unlike druid, which was never good.
this boils down to weee immob bad.

[SevlisBavles.3059]

7 hours ago, Leonidrex.5649 said:

hammer warrior can do the same kitten, in fact its actually playable, and used to be meta.
unlike druid, which was never good.
this boils down to weee immob bad.

Druid was literally full meta in the GW2 World Championships m8

[Master Ketsu.4569]

Well, they are doing what should have been done to Mirage ages ago, and what was almost universally called out as a terrible game mechanic shortly after PoF launched and Mirage launched into SSS+ untouchable God tier. And that is finally removing dodge on CC.

Strange that it is now finally being reworked. Better late than never I suppose.

Edited June 22, 2023 by Master Ketsu.4569