New Arc Divider..... letz talk

[Myror.7521]

Sooo we will get a new Arc Divider and after some talk with many peops i come to a conclusion. The old Arc Divider was as good as the new one will be (maybe new one will just be slightly worse in terms of dps)

What speaks for the Old Arc Divider:

1. Its three hits so it goes though Aegis and Blinds

2. The Overall dmg off the Skill is bigger

3. It got a big shiney Spin Animation

 

What speaks against the Old Arc Divider:

1. It does three hits so to get the total amount of dmg out you will need to critical hit every hit. In other words its more or less luck based If you get its full dmg out

2. Its a channeled skill means very easy to react to (means dodging/teleport/ Run Out off range is easier)

3. Your channeled in the Animation.... you can Break it up but it would be a pretty hard dmg loss. 

 

What speaks for the new Arc Divider:

1. Get a ways faster Casting time

2. Its just one big hit so its easier to get the full dmg out off it (better Control able is what i mean here)

3. Its basicly a big fast Hit and fits perfect in Berserkers theme in this case

 

Whats speaks against the new Arc Divider:

1. Its just a 100%  or 0% dmg Skill just as most Power dmg bursts Warrior get

2. It does over all less dps than its older Version (at least in Open World/ WvW while in instanced its Just slightly lower dps and let Berserker drop from a 41k Bench (with Skill Channel Break Up) to 39k Bench)

 

All in all I could understand why peoples still want the old Version over the new one.... it simply Looks better. However I prefer the new one here since im a Main PvP Player and also prefer crontrolable stuff than spamy once. In the end both get pros and cons ^^

Edited June 11, 2023 by Myror.7521

[felix.2386]

there isn't going to be lower dps in raid, cmc said it's not the intention, if there's any dps lose, dps will be buffed back up.

[CalmTheStorm.2364]

2 hours ago, Myror.7521 said:

Sooo we will get a new Arc Divider and after some talk with many peops i come to a conclusion. The old Arc Divider was as good as the new one will be (maybe new one will just be slightly worse in terms of dps)

What speaks for the Old Arc Divider:

1. Its three hits so it goes though Aegis and Blinds

2. The Overall dmg off the Skill is bigger

3. It got a big shiney Spin Animation

 

What speaks against the Old Arc Divider:

1. It does three hits so to get the total amount of dmg out you will need to critical hit every hit. In other words its more or less luck based If you get its full dmg out

2. Its a channeled skill means very easy to react to (means dodging/teleport/ Run Out off range is easier)

3. Your channeled in the Animation.... you can Break it up but it would be a pretty hard dmg loss. 

 

What speaks for the new Arc Divider:

1. Get a ways faster Casting time

2. Its just one big hit so its easier to get the full dmg out off it (better Control able is what i mean here)

3. Its basicly a big fast Hit and fits perfect in Berserkers theme in this case

 

Whats speaks against the new Arc Divider:

1. Its just a 100%  or 0% dmg Skill just as most Power dmg bursts Warrior get

2. It does over all less dps than its older Version (at least in Open World/ WvW while in instanced its Just slightly lower dps and let Berserker drop from a 41k Bench (with Skill Channel Break Up) to 39k Bench)

 

All in all I could understand why peoples still want the old Version over the new one.... it simply Looks better. However I prefer the new one here since im a Main PvP Player and also prefer crontrolable stuff than spamy once. In the end both get pros and cons ^^

Coming from a competitive mindset, I think the new Arc Divider should be great (assuming they give it the full 480 radius). The faster cast and not needing all 3 hits to crit will be a big step forward.

[HeliosMagi.9867]

A benefit of the old Arc Divider that no one mentioned is that the multiple hits give it a way around the 5-target limit. So if an enemy dies to the 1st hit the 2nd hit will hit a new target, and so on. So if you were for example attacked by 15 pocket raptors, old Arc Divider would kill 5 on the 1st rotation, 5 on the 2nd, and a final 5 on the 3rd, killing the whole pack in one move, whereas the new single-hit Arc Divider would only kill 5 and leave the other 10 alive.

[Myror.7521]

@HeliosMagi.9867 hmm yea true but to be honest there are not many situations where this is just straight helpfull but to be fair just a big QoL against Something like poket rabtors for sure.

[Myror.7521]

@felix.2386 we only know the PvE numbers of the Said Balance Preview but I would be fine If they will gain it more DPS though it ^^

 

@CalmTheStorm.2364 If it will be like its oldest Version it would indeed be a 480 Radius. I would be dispointed if not tho ^^ 

[felix.2386]

14 minutes ago, HeliosMagi.9867 said:

A benefit of the old Arc Divider that no one mentioned is that the multiple hits give it a way around the 5-target limit. So if an enemy dies to the 1st hit the 2nd hit will hit a new target, and so on. So if you were for example attacked by 15 pocket raptors, old Arc Divider would kill 5 on the 1st rotation, 5 on the 2nd, and a final 5 on the 3rd, killing the whole pack in one move, whereas the new single-hit Arc Divider would only kill 5 and leave the other 10 alive.

yes, just to kill pocket rapters with one skill, fk the rest of entire modes and bad dps rotations and not like you got other skills right.

Edited June 11, 2023 by felix.2386

[Myror.7521]

@felix.2386 nah the old Version was better everywhere besides PvP of course. How ever new Version would have been worse as it would stay in its DPS but nothing that can't be fixed by numbers tweaking (at least in PvE)

 

Thats said it was only better everywhere besides PvP cause you where playing it on Arms in WvW (Safe burst crit Line) and on a 100% crit Cap in PvE.

Edited June 12, 2023 by Myror.7521

[oscuro.9720]

Someone please explain why the change drops the berserker dps benchmark for pve. The coefficient/cast time increased by 13%, which would suggest an increase to a dps rotation.

Does the dps loss factor in the 5% reduction on bloody roar? Or does Warrior simply not have higher-damaging skills to fill the added 1.06 window to get more damage in?

[Myror.7521]

@oscuro.9720 it drops the dps of GS rotations DPS will drop (from around 41k to 40k if im correct). But also it ends faster. So you sweap weapons to fill the gap. And cause Axe,Axe is allready a lower dps rotation (around 39k) it will mean also some loss of DPS Overall. But you could read the exact things in this Thread If you Go for it:

Just a snowcrows member explaining it ^^

 

 

[oscuro.9720]

4 minutes ago, Myror.7521 said:

@oscuro.9720 it drops the dps of GS rotations DPS will drop (from around 41k to 40k if im correct). But also it ends faster. So you sweap weapons to fill the gap. And cause Axe,Axe is allready a lower dps rotation (around 39k) it will mean also some loss of DPS Overall. But you could read the exact things in this Thread If you Go for it:

Just a snowcrows member explaining it ^^

 

 

Just saw the post and, indeed, it seems to be a coefficient loss over a 5 second window. Seems to mostly because warrior’s skills that fill the added time are incapable of outputting enough total coefficient to compete with what old arcing slice would have provided over the same period of time. Interesting. It seems less a problem with arc divider and more a problem with the other skills on greatsword not being able to produce significant damage. Then again I don’t understand pve well, so w/e.

[felix.2386]

57 minutes ago, Myror.7521 said:

@felix.2386 nah the old Version was better everywhere besides PvP of course.

no way, you barely have more than 5 monsters at a time, even in a radius of 600.

except for pocket raptors that engage you with fast speed and always in large packs.

most of the time you barely even hit 5 enemies with one cast due to low enemy movement speed etc.

 

also there's no point discussing the DPS lose, as cmc clearly stated that it's not the intention and will fix it, maybe even already fixed for the next update.

Edited June 12, 2023 by felix.2386

[felix.2386]

like having a quicker arc divider is actually more practical in the sense you will actually have an easier time chaining for rage skill, instead of being stuck in a long animation.

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

5 hours ago, oscuro.9720 said:

Someone please explain why the change drops the berserker dps benchmark for pve. The coefficient/cast time increased by 13%, which would suggest an increase to a dps rotation.

Does the dps loss factor in the 5% reduction on bloody roar? Or does Warrior simply not have higher-damaging skills to fill the added 1.06 window to get more damage in?

Warriors including arc in their rotation have no skills on their bar that they can press that would do as much or more damage than arc divider completing in its current form. They'd be sitting on their hands in the gap.

Edited June 12, 2023 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

4 hours ago, felix.2386 said:

 

also there's no point discussing the DPS lose, as cmc clearly stated that it's not the intention and will fix it, maybe even already fixed for the next update.

Nah. Discuss it until we hear numbers. If it gets to live because we assume they know what we're thinking it'll take 3 months to fix.  I'm not betting on it unless I get notes.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

11 hours ago, oscuro.9720 said:

Just saw the post and, indeed, it seems to be a coefficient loss over a 5 second window. Seems to mostly because warrior’s skills that fill the added time are incapable of outputting enough total coefficient to compete with what old arcing slice would have provided over the same period of time. Interesting. It seems less a problem with arc divider and more a problem with the other skills on greatsword not being able to produce significant damage. Then again I don’t understand pve well, so w/e.

No, you are right. Go look at those old tables I posted in the past showing how each skill on GS performed relative to the AA chain.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

6 hours ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

Nah. Discuss it until we hear numbers. If it gets to live because we assume they know what we're thinking it'll take 3 months to fix.  I'm not betting on it unless I get notes.

The answer in my book is as follows:

Reduce the cast time of 100B to 2s from 3.5s.
Allow Blade trail to reflect off of the game geometry.
Add a fourth hit to Whirlwind Attack at the same coefficient per hit as the current ones.
Fix Rush pathing, make it do extra damage against vulnerable foes (+0.15 on the coefficient).

[JTGuevara.9018]

First of all, it's "let's".

Second of all, no. No talk. Kill it where it stands. This change, should it go live, is in effect for at least 3 months. If it can averted, then people should take the chance.

Third, I'm just to refer to this post by HeliosMagi.

18 hours ago, HeliosMagi.9867 said:

A benefit of the old Arc Divider that no one mentioned is that the multiple hits give it a way around the 5-target limit. So if an enemy dies to the 1st hit the 2nd hit will hit a new target, and so on. So if you were for example attacked by 15 pocket raptors, old Arc Divider would kill 5 on the 1st rotation, 5 on the 2nd, and a final 5 on the 3rd, killing the whole pack in one move, whereas the new single-hit Arc Divider would only kill 5 and leave the other 10 alive.

 

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

7 hours ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

The answer in my book is as follows:

Reduce the cast time of 100B to 2s from 3.5s.
Allow Blade trail to reflect off of the game geometry.
Add a fourth hit to Whirlwind Attack at the same coefficient per hit as the current ones.
Fix Rush pathing, make it do extra damage against vulnerable foes (+0.15 on the coefficient).

That's just core warrior buffs. 

Arc Divider and its balancing effort doesn't have anything to do with the rest of the state of greatsword (in this particular instance), and having to rebalance the whole weapon just to justify this theoretical Arc Divider is just proof they should leave it alone.

Edited June 12, 2023 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

2 hours ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

That's just core warrior buffs. 

Arc Divider and its balancing effort doesn't have anything to do with the rest of the state of greatsword (in this particular instance), and having to rebalance the whole weapon just to justify this theoretical Arc Divider is just proof they should leave it alone.

If the problem is that there is not enough in the core kit that the change not meant to lower dps lowers dps, then the core kit probably needs buffing.

[Myror.7521]

@JTGuevara.9018 Well I mean Tell me one Situation outside of Poket raptor where this is truely usefull. Im pretty sure there is litterly nothing outside off it. Also you could simply Dodge and burst and they are still death xD. So .... idk that is not a good reason for "yea let it be as it is". Also I allready mentioned the true reasons where it is the better and the worse Option ^^. But all that said. Just let it drop give it a try. If it truely will suck they will change it Back i gues^^

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

On 6/12/2023 at 7:57 PM, Myror.7521 said:

@JTGuevara.9018 Well I mean Tell me one Situation outside of Poket raptor where this is truely usefull. Im pretty sure there is litterly nothing outside off it. Also you could simply Dodge and burst and they are still death xD. So .... idk that is not a good reason for "yea let it be as it is". Also I allready mentioned the true reasons where it is the better and the worse Option ^^. But all that said. Just let it drop give it a try. If it truely will suck they will change it Back i gues^^

Lab farm. Tagging mobs in meta events. Tagging players in the enemy zerg. Clearing mesmer clones and then they mesmer. If the revert this change it will be in three years.

Edited June 16, 2023 by Lan Deathrider.5910

[Leo G.4501]

2 hours ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Lab farm. Tagging mobs in meta events. Tagging players in the enemy zerg. Clearing mesmer clones and then the mesmer. If the revert this change it will be in three years.

I'd also assume recovering hp with Blood Reckoning too as reliability to hit the cap for more damage but with a slower animation will top off your HP better than a weaker but faster animating swing. I guess the counter argument could fit more skills in the Blood Reckoning window with the shorter animation but it's like breaking up your heal button into 3 separate button presses instead of just one.

[felix.2386]

3 hours ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Lab farm. Tagging mobs in meta events. Tagging players in the enemy zerg. Clearing mesmer clones and then the mesmer. If the revert this change it will be in three years.

you are not tagging no mob with only 600 radius, you only clearing raptors because they got like 300% movement speed, so they run to you fast. there's literally no way to have more then 5 trash mobs within 600 radius of you before you finish casting a 1.8 second channel because trash mobs move slower then that.

tagging players in zerg, you got longbow for that, you barely even cast any arc divider in enemy zerg, maybe once every 5 minuts lol. and when you are using it, it's not for tag, but to do burst and get out.

one hit will clear clone just as good, mesmer literally only get 3 clones max at a time.

Edited June 13, 2023 by felix.2386

[prototypedragon.1406]

Let's be honest here, if we ask for a change to be reverted in terms of the balance patch preview unless we are a guardian or an engineer we don't get a say in it. As a warrior no matter how many times we use our shouts we are seldom heard , aside from a few things like the change to sword F1 after years upon years. Or anet would drag out the excuse they misplaced their hearing equipment  and proceed to respond to all players with static silence whether it be balancing in of itself or the boon issue that anet let it manifest into. Idk at this point I just want to use a mace and shield on a warrior and feel slightly tanky in wvw, not be hitting 6ks while stacked up on protection and all boons in the game nor 15s with a shield bash. It would be cool with just to hit 2500 to 3000's( 3500 on crit) with full might stacks plus vuln max stacks on a enemy player. Anymore it seems light armor classes tend to be tankier then heavy armor classes while still being able to dish out damage that would be on par with marauders or full berzerker zerker while having seemingly the survivability of sentinels and clerics combined as one stat type coupled with damage.