Winds Of Disenchantment Idea; stop nerfing, it’s time for a rework

[oscuro.9720]

Hello fellow warriors. A lot has been made about arc divider since the patch notes released. I’d like to talk about something less discussed; Winds of Disenchantment (WOD).

For those not in the know, WOD will be receiving another nerf with the upcoming patch by having its duration decreased by 1 second. This continues a trend of neutering one of warriors most useful abilities in large scale combat.

The Reasoning:

On the stream, Roy or CMC (I don’t remember which) said that they were needing this ability because it tended to create stalls in gameplay that were boring.

I don’t actually disagree with them, and the observation is legitimate. However, nerfing WOD for this reason is beyond a poor design choice and doesn’t properly diagnose the problems with WOD and large scale combat.

Why is it a poor design choice?

The stalls in gameplay are not solely a function of WOD, but rather a function of groups (particularly pug or less organized groups) being hesitant to push on bubbles of all kinds. Why push the large visual warning sign when you can wait a few seconds? WOD is just the most noticeable bubble and has a history of being far more punishing to push than it presently is.

It is time to rework WOD

This is not to say rework all bubbles, but WOD’s continued degradation leaves it in a state, imo (and this is just my opinion), that reworked alternatives provide more dynamic gameplay with a broader set of use cases. My suggestion is thus;

The Change:

Change WOD to now be an aoe attack that strips 5 boons from 5 targets and applies 1s disenchantment (under its old effects of not allowing new boons to be applied) per boon removed. Lower the CD to 60s. Ability remains unblockable. 

Benefits of this change:

1. WOD will revert to its stronger state to better create small windows upon which ones group can capitalize.

2. It no longer will create stalls in gameplay with large regions of “no-go” zones.

3. the effect being an aoe burst instead of a static spot will increase the skill’s viability downstream in smaller combat, like in pvp.

Drawbacks of such a change:

1. Target cap will be reduced. This is admittedly one of the strongest benefits of current WOD.

2. No more projectile block.

Conclusion:

I argue that, with the latest change to WOD, the skill should be reworked to be able to fulfill its original niche rather than being a bubble-with-added-effects like it has become. 

I admittedly don’t do much high end large scale combat. Anyone who does, it would be great to hear your thoughts on WOD,  it’s current utility and value, the value of Warrior, and any prospective changes.

Edited June 19, 2023 by oscuro.9720

[Cuks.8241]

I think Wod was overnerfed, especially the change from 100% to 33%. Wod was super strong, meta defining ability and I can see why tackle it. But I think it went the wrong way especially with the above nerf.

Yeah it could get really annoying if your enemy had substantially more bubbles than you because you were constantly dodging bubbles and tracking SPBs. For that reason I think the area and duration nerfs are in order. So it becomes high skill, high reward ability. Now they are just making it irrelevant.

Their reasoning baffles me. "Players are afraid to enter bubble so we will make it irrelevant so players will just walk through it". Thats just silly. Make it small, make it short lasting but if you get caught in it you will get punished hard.

[oscuro.9720]

55 minutes ago, Cuks.8241 said:

I think Wod was overnerfed, especially the change from 100% to 33%. Wod was super strong, meta defining ability and I can see why tackle it. But I think it went the wrong way especially with the above nerf.

Yeah it could get really annoying if your enemy had substantially more bubbles than you because you were constantly dodging bubbles and tracking SPBs. For that reason I think the area and duration nerfs are in order. So it becomes high skill, high reward ability. Now they are just making it irrelevant.

Their reasoning baffles me. "Players are afraid to enter bubble so we will make it irrelevant so players will just walk through it". Thats just silly. Make it small, make it short lasting but if you get caught in it you will get punished hard.

They didn’t say players are scared of entering bubbles. I did. They just observed that people don’t enter bubbles.

I agree with you, the duration nerfs are fine, but changing/nerfing the original disenchantment debuff was a very poor idea.

I made this post because if the lack of pushing into bubbles is the problem, I don’t think any amount of nerfing will change that outside of organized groups. So if you make it a pulse (literally the opening animation, then just no bubble remains), you get the effects, but no bubble, and no stalls in combat (the merits of such a claim being taken for granted obviously). 

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

I'm in favor of turning it into a 1 shot AoE that rips boons and blocks further boons, but why 5? There are elites out there that give all boons. Make it rip all boons on 5 targets and give the original Disenchantment for 1s per boon ripped and give it a 90s CD. kitten the boonball.

[Red Haired Savage.5430]

I honestly think disenchantment should be a debuff that is triggered any time we strip a boon. Having it stack with how many boons are stripped sounds like a good idea.

[oscuro.9720]

6 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

I'm in favor of turning it into a 1 shot AoE that rips boons and blocks further boons, but why 5? There are elites out there that give all boons. Make it rip all boons on 5 targets and give the original Disenchantment for 1s per boon ripped and give it a 90s CD. kitten the boonball.

Cause I tried to make it balanced towards an ideal game state rather than balanced off the currently over amped mechanics some classes have. It may be naive, ik. 

[oscuro.9720]

Just now, Red Haired Savage.5430 said:

I honestly think disenchantment should be a debuff that is triggered any time we strip a boon. Having it stack with how many boons are stripped sounds like a good idea.

Yes, that would be ideal, but that would slot into a trait more than an elite skill. Expanding the disenchantment debuff throughout spell could be a very cool way to counter boons more, but we’ve only seen them nerf Disenchantment so it seems unlikely 😞 

[Red Haired Savage.5430]

1 minute ago, oscuro.9720 said:

Yes, that would be ideal, but that would slot into a trait more than an elite skill. Expanding the disenchantment debuff throughout spell could be a very cool way to counter boons more, but we’ve only seen them nerf Disenchantment so it seems unlikely 😞 

They would probably make it replace enchantment collapse. Then maybe combine enchantment collapse with loss aversion. 

[felix.2386]

only strong when paired with the GM trait too.

like, the skill is garbage, but become too good with the trait.

and that trait is only useful in zerg too..like..aoe boon rip with only 240 radius...

the trait is garbage too without the skill (bad in every other mode outside of zergin)

what is this bad design

Edited June 20, 2023 by felix.2386

[Grand Marshal.4098]

Can't wait for WoD to get overnerfed further. 

Then mesmers will play Time Warp and people will be afraid of pushing that resulting in the nerf of that bubble, while ours flies off the radar for once!

Victory!

[TeqkOneStylez.8047]

Anet has wasted some elite spec choices when it comes to expanding or creating a new archetype / playstyle for some classes. ( I think I heard they apparently believe they have now covered everything lol )

and why even make a "spellbreaker" concept when for 1 -

Magic doesn't even exist in this game.

and 2 :

You thematically aim to target boons instead (justifying that "boons are magical" ), to then proceed to be terrified at the idea of combat taking place in a neutral state?  Not even "debuffs". Literally NEUTRAL form, no conversion effects.  So now you gotta backpedal because you remembered you love boon spam and Fisher Price zerg gameplay with lingering red circles on the ground.

and 3:

Chronomancer almost baseline ( with little trait investment ) can spec for higher levels of boon removal than spellbreaker can with just traits.

Spellbreaker has to waste utility slots and run a specific weapon if they want a decent level of removal. 

Chrono can remove on CC , shatter and I believe there is another trait they can take for a 3rd option which is also not tied to a weapon or a wasted utility slot.

Both Spellbreaker and Bladesworn are wasted concepts imo. And that's just on Warrior.

[felix.2386]

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Vicious_Expression

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shattered_Concentration

haha entire spellbreaker elite spec in 2 traits.

[DKRathalos.9625]

What about making it kind of wind aura that will emits from your character, so it still can be active while you moving around. I think we need to change the visual too rather than bubble maybe make it something else? has to be noticable I believe.

Your idea about how it strips boon is already good at least the way I see it, so let's say 5 secs aura duration, 5 tick damage, each tick remove 1 boon and apply disenchantment for 1 secs.

[oscuro.9720]

22 hours ago, TeqkOneStylez.8047 said:

Anet has wasted some elite spec choices when it comes to expanding or creating a new archetype / playstyle for some classes. ( I think I heard they apparently believe they have now covered everything lol )

and why even make a "spellbreaker" concept when for 1 -

Magic doesn't even exist in this game.

and 2 :

You thematically aim to target boons instead (justifying that "boons are magical" ), to then proceed to be terrified at the idea of combat taking place in a neutral state?  Not even "debuffs". Literally NEUTRAL form, no conversion effects.  So now you gotta backpedal because you remembered you love boon spam and Fisher Price zerg gameplay with lingering red circles on the ground.

and 3:

Chronomancer almost baseline ( with little trait investment ) can spec for higher levels of boon removal than spellbreaker can with just traits.

Spellbreaker has to waste utility slots and run a specific weapon if they want a decent level of removal. 

Chrono can remove on CC , shatter and I believe there is another trait they can take for a 3rd option which is also not tied to a weapon or a wasted utility slot.

Both Spellbreaker and Bladesworn are wasted concepts imo. And that's just on Warrior.

To say spell is a wasted concept is something I have to disagree with. It has been very powerful at times in PvP. It’s mechanics are underutilized, but the concept as a whole is certainly not wasted imo.

The rest I agree with though xD The entire concept of the class is to bring the opponent back to a neutral state (unbuffed), but they continually reduce its ability to do that while increasing the ability for others to buff themselves.

At this point they may as well make Disenchantment a condition with its current effect and let spell breaker spam it like there’s no tomorrow because it’s current effect is meh at best. Disenchantment on burst skill. Disenchantment on CC. Disenchantment per boon ripped. Build it baseline into spell with ample durations so that spell can continually keep other people’s boons reduced. If it’s a condition there is counter play with condition removal. 

[eXruina.4956]

since they're doing away with boon removal, how about adding mechanics that reward spelbreaker the more boons an opponent has active.

 

something like gain x boons when hitting an enemy that has y number of boons, copy x boons when hitting an enemy or heal for x when hitting an opponent with boons, things of that nature.

 

further expounding on the concept of destruction of the empowered.

Edited June 22, 2023 by eXruina.4956

[Hotride.2187]

l o l they nerfed it again