Low FPS, is there any way to improve it?

[NitricRose.1863]

I can barely get 30fps if I lower most of the graphics settings.

If I use auto-detect, I get 11fps.

If  I reduce the display size to 1920x1080, at first the frame rate looks really good, but this doesn't last and it later drops to 18 fps (using auto-detect).

Setting shadows to low and the shader to medium gets me 21-24 fps @ 1920x1080 (14-16fps @ 2560x1440).

Is this the best that can be expected from this game?

 

Hardware:

Dell G7

RTX 2060 (mobile)

i7-9750H CPU @ 2.60GHz

16gb

2560x1440 monitor (just got this).  The monitor is 75Hz maximum.

The laptop display is too small (15"), I was tired of playing on that small of a screen.  It is 1920x1080, 144Hz

 

Edited June 22, 2023 by NitricRose.1863
fix title

[draconicrose.6213]

With a graphics card that weak there isn't much you can do. Make sure character model limit is set to lowest and disable allied visual effects.

[Chaba.5410]

Turn off shaders too.

[GetFoxxed.9478]

18 minutes ago, draconicrose.6213 said:

With a graphics card that weak there isn't much you can do. Make sure character model limit is set to lowest and disable allied visual effects.

2060 should be more than enough for old game like this

[draconicrose.6213]

4 minutes ago, GetFoxxed.9478 said:

2060 should be more than enough for old game like this

You're right, I misread the number. Still, mobile graphics cards tend to interact weirdly with some games. make sure it is not turning on power saving mode or something, including the laptop itself.

[NitricRose.1863]

1 hour ago, draconicrose.6213 said:

You're right, I misread the number. Still, mobile graphics cards tend to interact weirdly with some games. make sure it is not turning on power saving mode or something, including the laptop itself.

That's a good thought, but there is no difference.

[Crini.3985]

On 6/22/2023 at 3:10 PM, NitricRose.1863 said:

That's a good thought, but there is no difference.

In my experience the setting that has the biggest impact in the game is  character model limit

You can lower your shadows, shaders, reflections, texture quality etc to low or lowest but if you leave character model limit to high values (medium, high, highest) you won't get decent fps..
Character model limit is the amount of people you see on screen, during big events this is the main cause of low fps because the game is processing  all the people on screen therefore all the shadows, particles, light effects etc coming from all those players, that kills performance in some computers.

Try this:

• Character model limit to medium, low or lowest, the lowest value gives the best performance but hides most of the player characters around you and gives them a default appearance.
•  Character model quality probably to medium, i doubt that low or lowest will increase the fps. This is the quality you will see from other players around you, not your own toon.
• Shadows to medium or low, you won't notice it after a while
• Reflections to NONE if you truly struggling with fps, The reflections have a big impact on performance, see how much fps you get with "terrain & sky" setting but if you want more fps just pick "none"
• High rest textures and high quality characters can be set to HIGH so you can see pretty models and not pixelated, low res characters. Some people play with this option to lowest thinking that it will improve the performance while ignoring other options like character model limit or shadows which hit performance much more.
•  best texture filtering to high/on it doesn't impact that much like other options, and makes the game looks better.
• Shaders to medium, some people prefer it anyways, because high shaders give this "shiny" appearance and not everyone likes it.
• FXAA antialiasing.

 

Let us know if this improved your FPS, sometimes fps get better when you delete the gw2 cache folder and the local.dat file when it gets corrupted, the launcher will rebuild both next time, you can google it like "gw2 local.dat file" to get more info. Also use windows defender and perform a scan in your computer, who knows maybe you got a bug as in virus draining your resources and then all the windows 10 and windows 11 bloatware eating ram and cpu, that's another topic but there's plenty of telemetry and useless options everywhere,

Edited June 25, 2023 by Crini.3985

[NitricRose.1863]

@Crini, thanks for the input.

I now have it set to Best Performance, then textures to high, best texture filtering on, character model limit to low, character model quality to medium, high-res character textures.

There's a strange thing that happens.  I exited the game for several minutes, went back in, and the FPS was around 70+, after running around Arborstone for a bit, it has dropped down to the high thirties.  (Earlier today, with higher graphics settings, in the middle of an event, it was getting 9 fps).

I am thinking that @draconicrose is correct.   There is something limiting the graphics speed when the card gets warm.    But I don't know if there's anything I can change.  I already set GW2 to "prefer maximum performance" in the nvidia control panel.

[Jukhy.2431]

Make sure you are not using the integrated CPU graphics (Intel UHD Graphics 630). Try setting everything on default/auto detect in Nvidia control panel, or try to switch the GPU and then switch back. I read about a problem where the setting panel said to be using the 2060 when in reality it was using the integrated one. Also make sure everyhing is up-to-date with the laptop (BIOS, OS, GPU and other drivers).

[KrHome.1920]

Quote

Setting shadows to low and the shader to medium gets me 21-24 fps @ 1920x1080 (14-16fps @ 2560x1440).

This proves, that you are GPU bound. If your CPU would limit your fps, then a higher resolution would not drop your fps.

Quote

RTX 2060 (mobile)

That GPU should provide WAY more fps, than what you get.

Conclusion: I do also guess that you are not using your discrete GPU (2060), but your integrated GPU (Intel) for the game.

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

On 6/22/2023 at 12:22 PM, NitricRose.1863 said:

I can barely get 30fps if I lower most of the graphics settings.

If I use auto-detect, I get 11fps.

If  I reduce the display size to 1920x1080, at first the frame rate looks really good, but this doesn't last and it later drops to 18 fps (using auto-detect).

Setting shadows to low and the shader to medium gets me 21-24 fps @ 1920x1080 (14-16fps @ 2560x1440).

Is this the best that can be expected from this game?

 

Hardware:

Dell G7

RTX 2060 (mobile)

i7-9750H CPU @ 2.60GHz

16gb

2560x1440 monitor (just got this).  The monitor is 75Hz maximum.

The laptop display is too small (15"), I was tired of playing on that small of a screen.  It is 1920x1080, 144Hz

 

there's several issues here, but the main one is its not your graphics card causing this. this is an older game, developed before dualcore was even that common on desktop, so it depends on the raw processing power of a single core and 2.6ghz is very low even if it is a more modern design like an i7.

 

as processor designs have had more cores added to them, they've also been slowed down as the focus has shifted from executing a single task very quickly to multitasking more efficiently.

 

the second issue is 16gb of memory is quite low as well. the game itself takes around 6-8gb, usually the operating system needs another 2gb, and a web browser or similar background applications like discord need up to 4gb combined if you don't close them. that still fits into memory at around 14gb maximum, except then you have no disk cache and your disk access slows the game to a crawl even on an ssd.

 

first of all, push all your settings to the maximum. lowering them will hurt performance on newer cards because they aren't optimised for old featuresets, only new ones. this sounds strange but its just how graphics drivers work, as these features use backwards compatibility layers that are often poorly implemented. you can hand-tweak individual settings in a neutral area (like an empty guild hall) to see if they actually help or hurt your framerate, but probably only a few of them will have any effect at all.

 

turn the character model limit to lowest and character model quality to low to hide other players.

 

make sure triple buffering is turned on in your graphics driver settings and vsync is turned off in-game as vsync will artificially limit framerates due to timing asynchronisations and its better to let your graphics driver handle the heavy lifting here with triple buffering.

 

the disk cache can reside in free and unused memory only. you can mitigate this by not running anything else at the same time as the game, or keeping it to a minimum, freeing up memory.

 

finally you need to make sure cpu down-throttling (not just power saving) is completely disabled in the operating system, and that turbo boost is always enabled and the machine is sitting on a cooling pad so turbo boost doesn't turn off due to temperatures climbing, which it will do automatically.

 

you're probably thinking , but that only gets me 20-30 fps. well, that's what most people play with and you're not going to get better with that cpu no matter what you do. the players you see on 100+fps are on dedicated gaming rigs running 4ghz+ processors and 24-32gb of ram and motherboard-mounted disks.

Edited June 26, 2023 by SoftFootpaws.9134

[NitricRose.1863]

@SoftFootpaws : An interesting concept.  Pushing everything to max simply gets my FPS down to 11 or so.

I have plenty of memory.  I know how to avoid bloat.  Discord is only about 300Mb.  With GW2, task manager, discord running, there's about 9+G of 16G memory in use.   CPU runs around 25%.  The GPU's 3D operations are maxed out.

I did find the cpu frequency setting, and I'll try that out later in a more realistic test.  Right now I'm just running about Arborstone.

Starting with best performance, I can change a few settings and I can get almost 20fps.

There's still something definitely weird in GW2.  Sometimes when I start up, I get excellent frame rates for a short while, other times when I start up, it's back down to 20 FPS.  Yesterday, during some testing, just running about Echovalds, it remained at 45-50 fps for quite a while.  That was really unusual.   Sign on today, and back down to 20 FPS.   I'll have to test again late at night and see what happens.

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

6 hours ago, NitricRose.1863 said:

@SoftFootpaws : An interesting concept.  Pushing everything to max simply gets my FPS down to 11 or so.

I have plenty of memory.  I know how to avoid bloat.  Discord is only about 300Mb.  With GW2, task manager, discord running, there's about 9+G of 16G memory in use.   CPU runs around 25%.  The GPU's 3D operations are maxed out.

I did find the cpu frequency setting, and I'll try that out later in a more realistic test.  Right now I'm just running about Arborstone.

Starting with best performance, I can change a few settings and I can get almost 20fps.

There's still something definitely weird in GW2.  Sometimes when I start up, I get excellent frame rates for a short while, other times when I start up, it's back down to 20 FPS.  Yesterday, during some testing, just running about Echovalds, it remained at 45-50 fps for quite a while.  That was really unusual.   Sign on today, and back down to 20 FPS.   I'll have to test again late at night and see what happens.

you'll likely never see the cpu go past 25% as i explained, the game can only use a single core.

 

the benchmarks for your graphics card put it leagues beyond (~300%) of a card i ran the game maxed at 30 fps on in the past, which means if your gpu is getting topping out then something else is wrong. its possible the gpu is also down-throttling, as they're designed to do if they have excessive heat or not enough voltage.

 

you can try installing the proprietary software that came with it if you haven't already. they usually include monitoring and overclocking/underclocking tools from the manufacturer. you can also try the free gpu-z.

 

keep in mind that its a 60gb game, having a few gigs of memory free for a cache is nothing. at the very least, the game needs to be on a fast, solid-state device as it uses lazy loading of models, meaning it loads and unloads 100% of the time you're playing the game, any time you move around or turn the camera. when accessing the data the cpu gets stuck in wait states on i/o, further decreasing the amount of processing power available.

Edited June 26, 2023 by SoftFootpaws.9134

[Basse Dahlfrost.2859]

How well does the game run on the laptop display ?

Because most laptops have both Geforce AND intel graphics card, and alot of laptops uses the intel graphics card by default for external monitors, alot of laptops you manually can change it to use the Geforce card instead, but also alot of laptops you can't.

[NitricRose.1863]

9 hours ago, Basse Dahlfrost.2859 said:

How well does the game run on the laptop display ?

Because most laptops have both Geforce AND intel graphics card, and alot of laptops uses the intel graphics card by default for external monitors, alot of laptops you manually can change it to use the Geforce card instead, but also alot of laptops you can't.

Interesting.  The Dell G7 is set up correctly.  The Intel is used for the laptop screen, but will switch to the Nvidia automatically if needed -- I never had to force gw2 to use the Nvidia.  The Nvidia is used for the external connections.  And the Nvidia control panel can force programs to use one or the other.

The game runs fine on the laptop display.  Same issues with the GPU throttling the speed as the heat goes up.  The Dell G7 series definitely needs bigger fans.  It's sort of a lightweight gaming laptop.

The GPU speed throttling can be determined as the culprit, as the FPS is very good (75+) when the game starts, and then later the FPS goes down a bit, then down even further when the computer gets quite warm.  @draconicrose was definitely on the right track.

The GPU speed throttling can be quite problematic, as the graphics settings might be set high, and when the GPU is throttled, those high-end graphics settings are no longer appropriate.    If you have a GPU that is throttling, the in-game graphics settings can be lowered so that (a) the GPU doesn't heat up quite so fast, and (b) will be more appropriate when the FPS does go down.

I vacuumed out the vents on the laptop, and I have ordered a laptop cooling pad.   We'll see how that works out when it arrives.

[KrHome.1920]

If overheating is the issue, then this is not acceptable, because it means, that your RTX 2060 mobile overheats and throttles to an extent, that it can't even produce 20 fps in a game from 2012. 

You could try to limit the game to 30 fps (less than half of the 75 fps you normally would get) right from the start to drastically reduce the power consumption of your gpu and slow down or even stop (if you are lucky) the overheating process.

Edited June 27, 2023 by KrHome.1920

[NitricRose.1863]

Purchasing a laptop cooler has helped tremendously.  It's a bit noisy, but that's ok.

After playing a long time, I get ~60 fps with the GPU running about 78C.  And this is with very decent graphics settings.

In the middle of a big event, it was getting 27-33 fps, which is fine.   Much better than 9 fps.

 

[TheQuickFox.3826]

You should get WAY more FPS on a RTX 2060.

Disable shadows, set character limit to low/medium.

Make sure the game is using your Nvidia card and not the built-in Intel graphics.

Check temperatures to see the CPU or GPU is not overheating. If it is, it may need a repair by Dell or a good notebook repair tech.

[eyelogix.1654]

On 7/2/2023 at 9:26 PM, TheQuickFox.3826 said:

You should get WAY more FPS on a RTX 2060.

Disable shadows, set character limit to low/medium.

Make sure the game is using your Nvidia card and not the built-in Intel graphics.

Check temperatures to see the CPU or GPU is not overheating. If it is, it may need a repair by Dell or a good notebook repair tech.

i wouldn't count on it when it comes to mobile ones, and they usually perform worse

[FaiFei.2386]

rtx 4080 laptop fps is 30-40 on high settings, freezes during play for mili seconds its annoying.

gpu usage is like %40 temp 60-65 C power draw 50-60W 

optimus off, updated drivers as well.

[TheQuickFox.3826]

6 hours ago, FaiFei.2386 said:

rtx 4080 laptop fps is 30-40 on high settings, freezes during play for mili seconds its annoying.

gpu usage is like %40 temp 60-65 C power draw 50-60W 

optimus off, updated drivers as well.

The curse of putting high-performance chips in a cramped and cooling restricted package called a laptop.

Check if it is thermal throttling or running into power limits.

[KrHome.1920]

6 hours ago, FaiFei.2386 said:

rtx 4080 laptop fps is 30-40 on high settings, freezes during play for mili seconds its annoying.

gpu usage is like %40 temp 60-65 C power draw 50-60W 

optimus off, updated drivers as well.

Your CPU is overheating => thermal throttling.

Typical laptop gaming experience - esp. if you have an Intel CPU.

[Deniara Devious.3948]

Weird. I am using a desktop PC, which is 11 years old. The original graphics card died years ago so I fitted Nvidia 1060 (ASUS 1060 Strix) with 6 GB RAM to it. I can easily get 60 fps in full 4K glory (3840x2160). Yes, 11-year-old PC runs this game fine in 4k. Note: I use vsync on and I only have 60 Hz display, so 60 fps is fine for me. I mostly play WvWvW.

I am typing this on a Dell work laptop, which haw awfully bad thermal design. CPU can hit 100% and start to throttle in mere 15 seconds of heavy load. My work laptop got a bit better after setting BIOS to setting, which minimizes fan noise and temperature. Yes, it runs a bit lower frequency, but that is fine of Guild Wars 2. I also had a Dell service person replace the thermal components, as this laptop was running extremely hot.

Lesson learned: Don't buy Dell or expect them to run games. The 6-year-old Dell was fine with GW2. 

 

[KrHome.1920]

To be fair all modern CPUs are designed to throttle - the desktop ones as well. All modern CPUs will run into thermal limits and throttle within 5 seconds of full load (e.g. cinebench).

Intel: at 100 degree celsius

AMD Ryzen 5000: at 90 degrees

AMD Ryzen 7000: at 95 degrees

Your cooler determines which clock speed your CPU can maintain in this thermal limit. While a high end water cooler can hold a 14900 at 4.5 GHz, a crappy laptop cooler will drop much lower (I guess even below 2 GHz worst case) causing noticable performance issues.

[ShadowCatz.8437]

On 7/2/2023 at 4:50 AM, NitricRose.1863 said:

Purchasing a laptop cooler has helped tremendously.  It's a bit noisy, but that's ok.

After playing a long time, I get ~60 fps with the GPU running about 78C.  And this is with very decent graphics settings.

In the middle of a big event, it was getting 27-33 fps, which is fine.   Much better than 9 fps.

 

As most laptop have relative small fans compared to desktop, it is possible that you also have a lot of dust entering your laptop as the air through ventilation holes (to create air pressure) also will move dust and hair (if you have a hairy pet you can see how fast hair will get stuck outside those holes in front of fans).

Make sure to use a vacuum cleaner at least once a week or twice to remove dust and hair before it enters your laptop and take your laptop to a technician that are allowed to open your laptop and clean it out from dust or anything that might have entered.

An external laptop cooler will help to move more air into your laptop, but at same time it is still necessary to have fans work as optimal as possible to move air into fins of your integrated heat sink which on laptop are meant to cool both CPU and your discrete SoC RTX 2060. It means that the path air have to take are much longer then on a desktop where you usually have two independent heatsinks and also at least one fan directly mounted on CPU cooler and one (up to three) that are mounted on that heatsink that are meant to keep GPU cool.

That is also the reason why thin laptop in general are bad gaming laptop as their heatsink system would make it very heavy to carry.

As for the discussion about GW2 being old and therefore a single core based game, I would say that it is a myth with no base in understanding how CPU, cores, multithreading (SMP and SMT) and OS work to allocate resource. It is MS Windows that have that task not the game  or app as it is OS that first need to fetch information from BIO/UEFI which in turn gets that info from CPU to what kind of cores and threads that it have access to. Read this article and you will understand better how it works:

https://www.extremetech.com/computing/310299-how-does-windows-use-multiple-cpu-cores

I would suggest that you download Hardware Info 64 as that app can monitor and also log temp and work load on GPU and CPU among other things.

https://www.hwinfo.com/download/

With MSI Afterburner you can also see on screen (overlay) what Hardware Info64 measure from sensors on your system.

https://us.msi.com/Landing/afterburner/graphics-cards

(This app can be used all systems even when they aren't from MSI or have any hardware from MSI).