Will Relics invalidate legendary runes? [Merged]

[Ashantara.8731]

8 minutes ago, babana.7521 said:

If I don't buy the Expansion, my legendary runes will not be affected???

Of course they will. A system change always affects the whole game and playerbase, not only a part of it.

[babana.7521]

This is going to drive players away. Just wait and see, I have never gotten annoy by this game until now. 

 

[vandrefalk.6823]

1 minute ago, babana.7521 said:

This is going to drive players away. Just wait and see, I have never gotten annoy by this game until now.

I'm telling you... this tiny change, for that miniscule set bonus effect, seriously, people are brewing a kitten storm simply for the sake of it...

[Dayra.7405]

16 minutes ago, Dondarrion.2748 said:

I'm telling you... this tiny change, for that miniscule set bonus effect, seriously, people are brewing a kitten storm simply for the sake of it...

I invested over 2000gold (7 leg Runes) into the capability to freely choose all runes and special effects. And to have them on all chars. Now this goes away, devaluing my investment? You must be quite rich calling 2000g tiny.

Edited June 30, 2023 by Dayra.7405

[babana.7521]

27 minutes ago, Dondarrion.2748 said:

I'm telling you... this tiny change, for that miniscule set bonus effect, seriously, people are brewing a kitten storm simply for the sake of it...

Tiny change, tiny change!! i was like HALELUJAH, I FINALLY HAVE LEGENDARY RUNES, I HAVE JOINED THE ELITE!  and then just WHEN i was flying high, BAM SWATTED BY A TINY CHANGE!!! 

I have plans, I am working on vision now it will be my last piece to complete all the legendary armors, (i know I can craft another conflux anytime, so there's no a worry in that regards), I thought after that I will be free to make the rest of the legendary weapons. But no! have to stall my well planned progress with TINY CHANGE!

Edited June 30, 2023 by babana.7521

[Graymatter.4723]

22 minutes ago, Dondarrion.2748 said:

I'm telling you... this tiny change, for that miniscule set bonus effect, seriously, people are brewing a kitten storm simply for the sake of it...

Just so that you are aware, the bonus effect is not minuscule. It can be as much as 5% more damage. There is a reason why cheap runes and expensive runes that have identical stats can differ is price by as much as 3g for each rune.

[CShades.2456]

Not really here to complain, but I have concerns.

As a long (long) time gamer, occasional GM, once-upon-a-time customer service career manager and generally easygoing person, there is /one/ thing that breaks my mind about this proposed change: you never Never /NEVER/ substract to the known experience, but always add to it. 

It is not only legendary runes that are affected by this. So are regular runes, all of the mote farming, old recipes acquired at time-sinking cost, and probably a bunch of things nobody is even thinking about yet. The addition of relics is great as long as it is an addition. If we are just getting the same thing that we already have for extra money/time/work it is not going to be a popular decision, and the only thing you will lose is Trust. It may not look like much, but it is. 

You can easily add a second bonus instead and make your customers happy. There will be power creep, but there is always power creep, and it is fine as long as it is across the board and available to all. 

[Dayra.7405]

There is a second aspect of devaluing, if you have many char-slots with many equipment-slots bought for many gems and equiped them all with good runes for much gold and then have to read:
"To celebrate the new system, we’ll distribute a relic selection box to all players at launch."

You have good reason to think What the kitten! They celebrate to take away dozens of effects from my equipment to give me just one back?

I've 21 char-slots, with 2-4 equipment-slots, I would need 50+ relics not one to keep what I have.

Edited June 30, 2023 by Dayra.7405

[vandrefalk.6823]

1 hour ago, Dayra.7405 said:

I invested over 2000gold (7 leg Runes) into the capability to freely choose all runes and special effects. And to have them on all chars. Now this goes away, devaluing my investment? You must be quite rich calling 2000g tiny.

Stop being so overly dramatic; you can still choose all the stat bonuses - AND, do I need to point out again, that Rubi on behalf of Anet, have already posted they are looking into how they will ensure those with legendary runes are taken care of.

Everybody is jumping the "oh, my investment is devalued, legendary runes are COMPLETELY useless"

No; the set bonus gets moved, your legendary runes will still function for stats, just like before. And they will have a solution for the set bonus.

I'm just getting kittening annoyed by the community being so toxic about this change when they don't have the full picture yet. It's a game for kitten's sake...

[Pifil.5193]

4 hours ago, Dondarrion.2748 said:

So... if you have 6 legendary runes, you could now swap between rune sets and if you choose 6 of the same rune, you also get the set bonus.

After relics are introduced, you will still be able to freely choose a rune for each of your legendary runes (as before) and you get all the stat bonuses (as before) AND they(Anet) have said they are looking into how they will ensure that the set bonus on the new relic will be preserved for owners of legendary runes.

Where did they say this? I missed it.

[Dayra.7405]

4 minutes ago, Pifil.5193 said:

Where did they say this? I missed it.

Me too, but I found it in the meanrtime:

 

[vandrefalk.6823]

Yeah, that post. My point was they are aware of the concerns raised and they are working on a plan and how to address those concerns.

[draxynnic.3719]

13 hours ago, Darkshadow.2396 said:

How about this as an idea. If you have legendary runes, keep the special affect you get for the 6th position, but allow a relic to over right that value. That way those w/ lego runes keep the effect they worked so hard to get, but allow the flexibility of a relic to change it for all users.

 

5 hours ago, Dondarrion.2748 said:

So... if you have 6 legendary runes, you could now swap between rune sets and if you choose 6 of the same rune, you also get the set bonus.

After relics are introduced, you will still be able to freely choose a rune for each of your legendary runes (as before) and you get all the stat bonuses (as before) AND they(Anet) have said they are looking into how they will ensure that the set bonus on the new relic will be preserved for owners of legendary runes.

Maybe they can introduce a special (not legendary) "Relic of Former Glory" that functions the way that if you choose your 6 legendary runes to all be Scholar, it copies the set bonus from Scholar set, and if you swap to 6x Monk stats, it will copy the old set bonus from Monk's, i.e. everything will work as before.

THEN - owners of Legendary Runes have everything they already had, and on top of that they can later add a Legendary Relic which in addition will allow you to freely choose your set bonus.

I mean - you don't have that option today, so why should you get it for free with the new Relic upgrade.

Do something similar for regular exotic runes as well, and we might have an answer here.

Slot the exotic runes you have, or customise your legendary runes into the set you want, and you get the same bonus effect as has been traditionally associated with that set. Everyone logs in on day of release with the same capabilities they had access to on the day before. But to get the new capabilities available through the new system, players will have to acquire the relics that will allow them to override the default 6-slot bonus.

It's a compromise that means nobody goes backwards as a result of the new system, but people still have incentive to engage with the content associated with the new system in order to go forward.

[Linken.6345]

5 hours ago, Dondarrion.2748 said:

So... if you have 6 legendary runes, you could now swap between rune sets and if you choose 6 of the same rune, you also get the set bonus.

After relics are introduced, you will still be able to freely choose a rune for each of your legendary runes (as before) and you get all the stat bonuses (as before) AND they(Anet) have said they are looking into how they will ensure that the set bonus on the new relic will be preserved for owners of legendary runes.

Maybe they can introduce a special (not legendary) "Relic of Former Glory" that functions the way that if you choose your 6 legendary runes to all be Scholar, it copies the set bonus from Scholar set, and if you swap to 6x Monk stats, it will copy the old set bonus from Monk's, i.e. everything will work as before.

THEN - owners of Legendary Runes have everything they already had, and on top of that they can later add a Legendary Relic which in addition will allow you to freely choose your set bonus.

I mean - you don't have that option today, so why should you get it for free with the new Relic upgrade.

I do have that today if i chose 6 rune of the schoolar i get the set bonus that they now move from relics.

If they added the 6 tier they will bump into runes as relics instead that  would be another thing altogether.

Runes would not have anything new just a shiny new stat stick called relics with + whatever stats

[Pifil.5193]

11 minutes ago, Dondarrion.2748 said:

Yeah, that post. My point was they are aware of the concerns raised and they are working on a plan and how to address those concerns.

OK, but to be clear they haven't said they were "working on a way of ensuring that the set bonus on the new relic will be preserved for owners of legendary runes."

They said they were looking at a way of compensating owners of Legendary Runes. That's not the same thing at all.

[Ashantara.8731]

(I'm going to quote myself from another thread...)

Two things:

1. Everyone will be affected, not just us owners of Legendary Runes. So don't feel overly entitled for a "full compensation".
2. Ask yourself this: If the Relic system had been in place since release, wouldn't you still have acquired 7 Legendary Runes?

I, too, hope that the new system will allow for an equivalent of Legendary Relics, so that we can have our fully customizable functionality back... But I don't feel "betrayed" in any way. It's a change, that's all.

[Dayra.7405]

31 minutes ago, Ashantara.8731 said:

1. Everyone will be affected, not just us owners of Legendary Runes. So don't feel overly entitled for a "full compensation"

Yeah, as said above the more char-slots and equipment-slots you have filled with expensive runes, the harder you are hit.

So this leads to another question:

Would I have bought that char/equipment-slot for gems, if the relict-system would have been in place?

I bought 3 char-slots and a bunch of equipment slots, I likely wouldn't have bought if I would have been aware of the relic-system. (depends how much effort/gold, it will be to get relics.)

31 minutes ago, Ashantara.8731 said:

2. Ask yourself this: If the Relic system had been in place since release, wouldn't you still have acquired 7 Legendary Runes?

That question can currently not seriously answered, we simply don't know how many different runes will exist afterwards, and how much will the useful ones cost.

Edited June 30, 2023 by Dayra.7405

[SmokingLord.6108]

3 hours ago, Dondarrion.2748 said:

Stop being so overly dramatic; you can still choose all the stat bonuses - AND, do I need to point out again, that Rubi on behalf of Anet, have already posted they are looking into how they will ensure those with legendary runes are taken care of.

Everybody is jumping the "oh, my investment is devalued, legendary runes are COMPLETELY useless"

No; the set bonus gets moved, your legendary runes will still function for stats, just like before. And they will have a solution for the set bonus.

I'm just getting kittening annoyed by the community being so toxic about this change when they don't have the full picture yet. It's a game for kitten's sake...

Don't be such a kitten and stop trying valuating other's time by your ruler. The important part about the runes are the bonuses not the stats, also the ability to change them whenever you want. They are removing a functionality already earned.

[blp.3489]

47 minutes ago, Ashantara.8731 said:

2. Ask yourself this: If the Relic system had been in place since release, wouldn't you still have acquired 7 Legendary Runes?

That would be an emphatic NO.  The stats portion isn't that valuable and unlikely to be expensive.  It is the bonus effect that makes a rune expensive, e.g. +5% damage.  Show me a rune that costs several gold that you would be willing to only buy five of, i.e. is valuable without the bonus from the sixth.

[Pifil.5193]

53 minutes ago, Ashantara.8731 said:

(I'm going to quote myself from another thread...)

Two things:

1. Everyone will be affected, not just us owners of Legendary Runes. So don't feel overly entitled for a "full compensation".
2. Ask yourself this: If the Relic system had been in place since release, wouldn't you still have acquired 7 Legendary Runes?

I, too, hope that the new system will allow for an equivalent of Legendary Relics, so that we can have our fully customizable functionality back... But I don't feel "betrayed" in any way. It's a change, that's all.

1. Yep and those people will be as inconvenienced as the owners of Legendary Runes are. On launch day they'll get their Remix selection box and then have to go source possibly dozens of additional Relics to get back to where they were before the expansion launched. At the same time as everyone else.

I don't know what the crafting costs will be of course but I'd guess they're be at least as expensive as crafting one of the equivalent exotic runes (and you won't be able to pry them out of armour so they will have to be crafted). And well, the prices of whatever those materials are is going to spike.

2. Probably not, at least not unless I could have created a Legendary Relic at the same time. I would definitely have created the Relic first then the Sigils, then the Runes.

 

[The Boz.2038]

Just now, Pifil.5193 said:

I merely pointed out that ArenaNet didn't say they were looking for a way to keep the current functionality for Legendary Rune owners

Current functionality: Choose rune.
Future functionality: Choose rune.

Sounds the same to me.

Now, okay, sure, runes change functionality to lose a tiny portion of their effect, in order to offload it to a separate slot, but that doesn't change the fact that your legendary rune still has the function of morphing into any rune at any time you want.

[Pifil.5193]

8 minutes ago, The Boz.2038 said:

Current functionality: Choose rune.
Future functionality: Choose rune.

Sounds the same to me.

Now, okay, sure, runes change functionality to lose a tiny portion of their effect, in order to offload it to a separate slot, but that doesn't change the fact that your legendary rune still has the function of morphing into any rune at any time you want.

Current functionality: Choose rune which includes attributes and unique 6th slot bonus.

Future functionality: Choose rune which includes attributes.

Not really the same, are they?

The whole point is they're taking away functionality Runes currently have to move to a new slot. You may consider it a "tiny portion" of their effect and sure some of the sixth slot bonuses are pretty weak but some are so good that people are willing to take unwanted attribute combinations to get them.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Rune

[The Boz.2038]

1 minute ago, Pifil.5193 said:

You may consider it a "tiny portion" of their effect and sure some of the sixth slot bonuses are pretty weak but some are so good that people are willing to take unwanted attribute combinations to get them.

Oh?
Sounds like an upgrade, then!

[Pifil.5193]

Just now, The Boz.2038 said:

Oh?
Sounds like an upgrade, then!

Not to Runes it isn't. 🙂

[The Boz.2038]

Yes to characters it is.