Will Relics invalidate legendary runes? [Merged]

[Astralporing.1957]

35 minutes ago, BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

You aren’t losing anything, the functionality of Legendary runes is being able to select any Rune  at any time.

Notice, that "any rune at any time" today includes what future Relics will be. After the change, it won;t include that anymore. That's the loss of functionality right there.

35 minutes ago, BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

You aren’t losing anything, the functionality of Legendary runes is being able to select any Rune  at any time. You still have 6 rune effects, you can still select any time at any time, Anet is just rebalancing runes to only give stats.

That "rebalancing" is splitting functionality into two types of gear. Notice, that "splitting" does mean that some functionality will be split off. That part is where the loss happens.

35 minutes ago, BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

You’re actually gaining functionality because now you can select any stat selection with an additional stat node in most cases and have whatever Relic effect now. 

Notice, that i will only gain that functionality after i have farmed a collection of Relics (or a legendary relic). Before that, it's clear loss.

Again, the current situation is that anyone with a set of legendary runes can adjust immediately and at no cost to all Rune-related balance changes. After introduction of Relics, it will no longer be true. Simple as that. And, again, changing name on part of functionality does not change the nature of the thing.

[Pifil.5193]

58 minutes ago, BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

You aren’t losing anything, the functionality of Legendary runes is being able to select any Rune  at any time. You still have 6 rune effects, you can still select any time at any time, Anet is just rebalancing runes to only give stats. You’re actually gaining functionality because now you can select any stat selection with an additional stat node in most cases and have whatever Relic effect now. 

They're taking functionality away from Runes to put in the Relic slot, I'm amazed people can't seem to grasp that. 

Let's put it in terms people might be able to get. Imagine Runes give you apples (stats) and an orange (the sixth slot unique effect). ArenaNet are changing it so that Runes will only give you apples now and they're putting the orange in a different slot.

Are Runes losing something? Yes, you no longer get the orange with your Runes? The orange is now in the Relic slot. You can still get oranges but you used to get an orange with your Runes now to do not. 

Edited July 9, 2023 by Pifil.5193

[QueenKeriti.5176]

46 minutes ago, BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

You aren’t losing anything, the functionality of Legendary runes is being able to select any Rune  at any time. You still have 6 rune effects, you can still select any time at any time, Anet is just rebalancing runes to only give stats. You’re actually gaining functionality because now you can select any stat selection with an additional stat node in most cases and have whatever Relic effect now. 

Except I made my runes for the sixth set bonus (AKA the "relic bonus") on all my 30+ characters/builds easily. No more farming metas/dungeons for that 6th bonus on any char. No carting around anything. No buying more. My 6th effect is just there, waiting for me with a click of a button.  For every character and build on my account.

If I had just wanted stat runes, I could have literally bought thousands of them for the price of ONE (1) legendary rune. 

This IS losing functionality. It's taking something I already had and moving it into something I now have to grind for again. And, worse, it's the functionality part that makes some of my characters viable at all. I'm not losing 5% damage; I'm losing things like condi cleanse in group WvW. I will have to grind for that AGAIN just to have that functionality back. And not just for this character/build, but for ALL of them, especially if we're "blessed" enough to have relics operate like jade bot cores and can't have them on multiple chars at the same time. After I worked so hard for months to not have to do that. 

The relic idea is ok...on paper. It does provide new customization options; we all know that. That's a cool concept, but the 18th will tell us just how nyerked we are when it came to spending 2k+ gold, 300-350 of a time gated currency, a crackton of clovers, coins, symbols, and more to lose the point of making these in the first place. 

You know, the reason we never EXPECTED to lose this is because Anet's entire game philosophy for over 20 years has been around NOT removing a functionality and moving it into a new thing. 
 

short of giving us a legendary relic, which, judging by Anet's surprise about people calling this out, they likely don't have/didn't even think about, there are going to be a ton of pissed off people. Looking forward to the "where's my set bonus?" posts on reddit/forums/map and guild chat when people who don't know about this change get to experience it with the expansion launch.

 

 

[Wolfyno.2704]

12 minutes ago, BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

You aren’t losing anything, the functionality of Legendary runes is being able to select any Rune  at any time. You still have 6 rune effects, you can still select any time at any time, Anet is just rebalancing runes to only give stats. You’re actually gaining functionality because now you can select any stat selection with an additional stat node in most cases and have whatever Relic effect now. 

And that is almost the whole point of runes, what make each rune valuable. I did not buy runes for the extra 50/100 power / condition / toughness. Instead I got them for the:

- +20% Bleeding.png Bleeding duration; inflict Bleeding.png bleeding, Torment.png torment, and Poisoned.png poisoned to nearby foes for 8 seconds after using an elite skill

- +20% Torment.png Torment duration; gain Regeneration.png Regeneration after inflicting a foe with Torment.png Torment. (Cooldown: 5 seconds)

- +20% Burning.png Burning duration; increase strike damage by 10% while fire aura is active.

- +10% Condition Duration.png Condition Duration; gain barrier after using a stance skill.

- +25% Movement Speed; gain shocking aura for 4 seconds after using an elite skill. (Cooldown: 45 seconds)

There is no way in hell you can convince anyone that a rune will still be as valuable after removing  those effects JUST  just have me farm them back for each build for each char I have, even more so when I have a full legendary rune set.

[ItsAlive.1236]

30 minutes ago, Pifil.5193 said:

They're taking functionality away from Runes to put in the Relic slot, I'm amazed people can't seem to grasp that.

They get it, they're just so kittening bored they're pretending they don't.

[Pifil.5193]

2 minutes ago, ItsAlive.1236 said:

They get it, they're just so kittening bored they're pretending they don't.

You know what, that makes perfect sense, time to leave the thread. Thanks 

[Sobx.1758]

1 hour ago, BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

You aren’t losing anything, the functionality of Legendary runes is being able to select any Rune  at any time. You still have 6 rune effects, you can still select any time at any time, Anet is just rebalancing runes to only give stats. You’re actually gaining functionality because now you can select any stat selection with an additional stat node in most cases and have whatever Relic effect now. 

Curent runes: pick a set to get stats+bonus effects.
Future runes: pick stats.  // Relics: provide bonus effects. No longer bound to runes.

Yes, I do understand what disconnecting bonus effects from the stats means, but you're simply wrong about saying people aren't losing anything in their current runes. If they translate scholar runes as a whole into "runes for stats" and separate "scholar relic for bonus effect" then by picking stats on your new runes you're left without any bonus effect. And so now you have to acquire relics to use them for the bonus effects you currently have on the legendary runes. Swapping effects? Well, enjoy holding sets of 10 runes per character if we won't get legendary relics. "You aren't losing anything"? What?

[BlaqueFyre.5678]

46 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Notice, that "any rune at any time" today includes what future Relics will be. After the change, it won;t include that anymore. That's the loss of functionality right there.

That "rebalancing" is splitting functionality into two types of gear. Notice, that "splitting" does mean that some functionality will be split off. That part is where the loss happens.

Notice, that i will only gain that functionality after i have farmed a collection of Relics (or a legendary relic). Before that, it's clear loss.

Again, the current situation is that anyone with a set of legendary runes can adjust immediately and at no cost to all Rune-related balance changes. After introduction of Relics, it will no longer be true. Simple as that. And, again, changing name on part of functionality does not change the nature of the thing.

Using your logic any balance or change is a taking away when they are rebalancing and restructuring, they aren’t removing the functionality of the legendary runes, runes are the entire thing not just one small piece, every time in existence is being restructured and given a compensation of 6th stat in some cases, while giving more functionality of having more stats and a bonus that’s going to be different, since the relics won’t have stats on the effect of the effects that have both a stat and an effect. 

if they removed some stats from the game that’s not changing the function of legendary armor/weapons/trinkets since the overall function of stat selection at any time is still there. Same things with the runes the runes are the stats they give plus whatever effect if any that effect isn’t the whole rune, it’s 1/6th of a rune.

Now you get added functionality of any stat you want because if we take you people at your word you weee taking stats you didn’t want which is the majority of the rune for an effect, now you get the stats you actually want and then some extra on top of Relics.

again you’re not losing any functionality, you’re gaining a functionality increase
 

 

[Geralt.7519]

1 hour ago, BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

You aren’t losing anything, the functionality of Legendary runes is being able to select any Rune  at any time.

Runes today = 2 functions = stats + set bonus

Runes in Soto = 1 function = stats

Changing name to the set bonus doesn't make it any less a function or runes, that function is lost in next xpac.

This affects everyone, not only legendary crafters, they're effectively breaking every single build on every char.

To avoid the game being unplayable at launch, they're giving everyone a choice of one set bonus for free.

While we could argue that normal stuff can be subject to losses, legendaries should not, that's the whole premise of legendaries, a legendary relic for legendary crafters is the only way to bring back both functions runes have today.

Edited July 9, 2023 by Geralt.7519

[BlaqueFyre.5678]

6 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Curent runes: pick a set to get stats+bonus effects.
Future runes: pick stats.  // Relics: provide bonus effects. No longer bound to runes.

Yes, I do understand what disconnecting bonus effects from the stats means, but you're simply wrong about saying people aren't losing anything in their current runes. If they translate scholar runes as a whole into "runes for stats" and separate "scholar relic for bonus effect" then by picking stats on your new runes you're left without any bonus effect. And so now you have to acquire relics to use them for the bonus effects you currently have on the legendary runes. Swapping effects? Well, enjoy holding sets of 10 runes per character if we won't get legendary relics. "You aren't losing anything"? What?

Except runes will still have 6 effects, and the functions of legendary runes is switching the runes at anytime the runes aren’t just the 6th effect like people are making them out to be, you still never have to grind or get any new rune stats from new content. 
 

this is them just rebalancing runes, if they removed berserker stats from the game Legendary Armors and Weapons aren’t losing functionality 

[Sobx.1758]

9 minutes ago, BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

Except runes will still have 6 effects

No, they won't have "6 effects", they'll probably simply have stats separated between the runes to pick. Which doesn't mean it somehow gives more, it's just adding what it was and redistributes it over 6 runes. The BONUS is lost. You're not getting more stats (unless they'd -for some reason- want to introduce more power creep, but at this point I'm not sure there's a reason for that or even a reason to suspect that), you're probably just getting stats values redistributed more evenly between the 6 pieces, while losing the bonus. The current utility in the form of having bonus effect/s is lost -which is also exactly what I wrote in the post you've quoted. I'm really not sure what you're not understanding here.

9 minutes ago, BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

and the functions of legendary runes is switching the runes at anytime the runes aren’t just the 6th effect like people are making them out to be, you still never have to grind or get any new rune stats from new content. 

Who ever said that "runes are just 6th effect"? Are you reverting to just making up random stuff now? I didn't see people claim what you say they're claiming here. Duh, in my post you just quoted I literally wrote this:

Curent runes: pick a set to get stats+bonus effects.
Future runes: pick stats.  // Relics: provide bonus effects. No longer bound to runes.

Where do you see anything about "runes just being 6th effect"? Could you, perhaps, now address what you've quoted in the post above? Because you still didn't.

Edited July 9, 2023 by Sobx.1758

[Wolfyno.2704]

3 minutes ago, BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

Except runes will still have 6 effects, and the functions of legendary runes is switching the runes at anytime the runes aren’t just the 6th effect like people are making them out to be, you still never have to grind or get any new rune stats from new content. 
 

this is them just rebalancing runes, if they removed berserker stats from the game Legendary Armors and Weapons aren’t losing functionality 

If people want just the stats, they are able to do it already. Just mix two rune sets and you'll have an all rune stats, if that is what you are going for. For most, without effects runes are almost useless.

[BlaqueFyre.5678]

1 minute ago, Wolfyno.2704 said:

If people want just the stats, they are able to do it already. Just mix two rune sets and you'll have an all rune stats, if that is what you are going for. For most, without effects runes are almost useless.

Doesn’t mean you’re losing any functionality the function of legendary runes are still going to be the exact same,

[Sobx.1758]

6 minutes ago, BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

Doesn’t mean you’re losing any functionality the function of legendary runes are still going to be the exact same,

No, it won't and it was already explained:

Curent runes: pick a set to get stats+bonus effects.
Future runes: pick stats.  // Relics: provide bonus effects. No longer bound to runes.

In what world is this legendary runes mainaining their current functionality? It just isn't. If you don't get relics, your build is simply nerfed when compared to the one you're running today, because only the stats remain and the effect is lost. On any build or role you run.

Edited July 9, 2023 by Sobx.1758

[Healix.5819]

They should have just avoided the problem. There's no need to change anything, simply add new sets of runes that are only stats, then the relic can serve as the bonus for these new runes, or stats for the old ones.

[QueenKeriti.5176]

16 minutes ago, Pifil.5193 said:

You know what, that makes perfect sense, time to leave the thread. Thanks 

Same. I've said my piece. 😕 If people want to troll/be woefully dense, I don't wish to argue my point anymore. I'm frustrated enough at Anet killing my work 3 weeks after I finished my rune set (at the very least, I wouldn't have made the 5th and 6th runes because it's months too late for those 4 prior ones); I don't need to be frustrated with the playerbase, too. I could go check out Aion Classic if I want to relive those days lmao

[Geralt.7519]

26 minutes ago, ItsAlive.1236 said:

They get it, they're just so kittening bored they're pretending they don't.

I feel sorry for them lol, I guess it's time to let them be kitten bored among themselves, Anet got all the feedback already anyway. Thanks for heads up 🙂

[QueenKeriti.5176]

13 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

No, they won't have "6 effects", they'll probably simply have stats separated between the runes to pick. Which doesn't mean it somehow gives more, it's just adding what it was and redistributes it over 6 runes. The BONUS is lost. You're not getting more stats (unless they'd -for some reason- want to introduce more power creep, but at this point I'm not sure there's a reason for that or even a reason to suspect that), you're probably just getting stats values redistributed more evenly between the 6 pieces, while losing the bonus. The current utility in the form of having bonus effect/s is lost -which is also exactly what I wrote in the post you've quoted. I'm really not sure what you're not understanding here.

Who ever said that "runes are just 6th effect"? Are you reverting to just making up random stuff now? I didn't see people claim what you say they're claiming here. Duh, in my post you just quoted I literally wrote this:

Curent runes: pick a set to get stats+bonus effects.
Future runes: pick stats.  // Relics: provide bonus effects. No longer bound to runes.

Where do you see anything about "runes just being 6th effect"? Could you, perhaps, now address what you've quoted in the post above? Because you still didn't.

I think he's confusing me saying the only reason why I made the legendary runes is for quick and easy access to the bonus stat lmao (because stat stat runes are cheap af; it's getting the sets to get the bonus that makes any runes expensive, if that makes sense? Like I could buy thousands of power runes from cheap sets if all I wanted was the base stats, but I made the runes to have access to the SETS for the set bonus, not the stats). But he's either a troll or has 0 idea how runes work, so I don't have much hope.

[Astralporing.1957]

14 minutes ago, BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

Using your logic any balance or change is a taking away

Yes. it can be. That part is fine. What is not fine is that having legendary gear was supposed to protect us from the consequences fo that. And now suddenly it does not do it anymore.

14 minutes ago, BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

they are rebalancing and restructuring, they aren’t removing the functionality of the legendary runes, runes are the entire thing not just one small piece, every time in existence is being restructured and given a compensation of 6th stat in some cases, while giving more functionality of having more stats and a bonus that’s going to be different, since the relics won’t have stats on the effect of the effects that have both a stat and an effect.

Indeed. And, again, having legendary runes should have allowed us to adjust to all changes immediately and at no cost. Except this time it won't.

14 minutes ago, BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

if they removed some stats from the game that’s not changing the function of legendary armor/weapons/trinkets since the overall function of stat selection at any time is still there.

Yes, if they had removed some stats the legendary functionality would be retained, because people with legendary gear would be able to adjust to the change on the spot. Withoun needing to grind for new gear. That's not what wil happen however. They will not remove stats - they will move them to a completely new type of gear. So, people with legendary gear will not be able to adjust, and will need to grind for new gear - something posessing legendaries was supposed to protect you from.

14 minutes ago, BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

Now you get added functionality of any stat you want because if we take you people at your word you weee taking stats you didn’t want which is the majority of the rune for an effect, now you get the stats you actually want and then some extra on top of Relics.

again you’re not losing any functionality, you’re gaining a functionality increase

No. People with legendaries will lose one key functionality - ability to adjust to the change without the need to grind for new gear. Or are you going to tell me i am wrong about that part?

[BlaqueFyre.5678]

22 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

No, it won't and it was already explained:

Curent runes: pick a set to get stats+bonus effects.
Future runes: pick stats.  // Relics: provide bonus effects. No longer bound to runes.

In what world is this legendary runes mainaining their current functionality? It just isn't. If you don't get relics, your build is simply nerfed when compared to the one you're running today, because only the stats remain and the effect is lost. On any build or role you run.

Current Legendary Rune: select any rune

New Legendary Rune: select any Rune 

No functionality lost

[Sobx.1758]

2 minutes ago, BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

Current Legendary Rune: select any rune

New Legendary Rune: select any Rune

Nope, current rune selection gives stats +bonus. Post rework runes will provide same stats, but won't provide any bonus effect. Clear reduction of utility they provide.

Quick test: keep playing SotO with current runes without ever getting any relic. Let me know if you still think your runes remained their current utility 🙄 

14 minutes ago, QueenKeriti.5176 said:

I think he's confusing me saying the only reason why I made the legendary runes is for quick and easy access to the bonus stat lmao (because stat stat runes are cheap af; it's getting the sets to get the bonus that makes any runes expensive, if that makes sense? Like I could buy thousands of power runes from cheap sets if all I wanted was the base stats, but I made the runes to have access to the SETS for the set bonus, not the stats). But he's either a troll or has 0 idea how runes work, so I don't have much hope.

Yeah, at this point that's probably what it is.

Edited July 9, 2023 by Sobx.1758

[BlaqueFyre.5678]

6 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Nope, current rune selection gives stats +bonus. Post rework runes will provide same stats, but won't provide any bonus effect. Clear reduction of utility they provide.

Quick test: keep playing SotO with current runes without ever getting any relic. Let me know if you still think your runes remained their current utility 🙄 

Yeah, at this point that's probably what it is.

Current Legendary  runes are runes that can be swapped at will

new runes are rebalanced runes that can be swapped at will

the only function of Legendary Runes over Superior runes  is swapping what rune they are at will 

you can still do that therefore zero functionality loss 

Again the only function of Legendary runes is swapping the type of Rune you aren’t losing that function

[Swoo.5079]

I'll take a legendary box that allows me to choose a legendary relic as compensation 😁

I mean if dropping the set bonus is not a loss for runes, getting a set bonus is not a gain for relics.

Unfortunately it is likely legendary relics arent on the cards, because grind and awakardness to change builds that get nerfed/wiped/created every couple of months is a great idea...

Dr. Jekyl creates legendary armour Mr Hyde decides to add an extra component to builds by splitting existing components..

 

[BlaqueFyre.5678]

Just now, Swoo.5079 said:

I'll take a legendary box that allows me to choose a legendary relic as compensation 😁

I mean if dropping the set bonus is not a loss for runes, getting a set bonus is not a gain for relics.

Unfortunately it is likely legendary relics arent on the cards, because grind and awakardness to change builds that get nerfed/wiped/created every couple of months is a great idea...

Dr. Jekyl creates legendary armour Mr Hyde decides to add an extra component to builds by splitting existing components..

 

Why should you get rewarded for not losing anything? Then everyone should get a legendary relic fo free with the expansion.

[Sobx.1758]

9 minutes ago, BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

Again the only function of Legendary runes is swapping the type of Rune you aren’t losing that function

No, the funciton of runes and legendary runes is picking stats and 6th rune bonus. Something you won't be able to have without relics after the patch.

2 minutes ago, BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

Why should you get rewarded for not losing anything? Then everyone should get a legendary relic fo free with the expansion.

Wrong. What "everyone should get" is maybe a relic box for each rune set they have. In case of legendary runes, it's legendary relic, since legendary runes provide unlimited use of rune sets.

Edited July 9, 2023 by Sobx.1758