New Mesmer Weapon: Rifle

[Roadkizzle.2157]

On 8/27/2023 at 6:36 AM, rawisz.6439 said:

Mesmer covers ranged and melee weapons for power and condi. Why do you even think that rifle will be dps weapon? I guess it will be heal and support oriented, because its only role which is lacking right now.

I expect the rifle to be a ranged support weapon or for the Scepter to be given ranged support ability and the Rifle to become a ranged Condi dps.

 

But I just don't think that the possibility of it being a close quarter battle weapon should be dismissed out of hand.

Greatsword being a ranged laser weapon is more absurd than a rifle being used in cqb.

[Gibson.4036]

Y'all, rifle mesmer doesn't need to shoot, hit with the stock, nor stab with a bayonet! There is another option that would be so quintessentially Mesmer, it has to be what we're getting.

Color Guard Rifle Spinning!

You and your three clones are a Color Guard unto yourselves, stunning and confusing your enemies with your amazing displays of twirling and tossing while encouraging your allies with a wide variety of boons as they are inspired by your incredible feats of rifle dexterity!

[keyokku.5412]

I like rifle skins so I'm curious if it'll be usable for me

I'm imagining spinning around shooting the rifle like a machine gun maybe ricocheting shots off the ground or terrain and with repositioned portals though the pistol has ricochet loll

 

[draxynnic.3719]

On 8/29/2023 at 4:09 AM, Roadkizzle.2157 said:

What melee OH does the Mesmer have? The Torch is the closest because it has short range for the self burn... But it's entirely a Condi weapon and doesn't work well paired with the Sword which is purely a Power weapon.

It doesn't matter what OH a Sword Mesmer uses, there are very few close range skills for the Mesmer.

Sword 4 is a block. But it's not a melee skill. Are you saying the Scepter block is melee just because it blocks any attack?

Sword. A block isn't inherently a melee ability, but it is something you generally need more in close. And as I mentioned, the phantasm summon also comes with a melee attacl from the mesmer. It isn't a pure melee offhand, but there are few pure melee offhands except on professions where all the mainhand weapons are melee. But it certainly loses effectiveness if you're not in melee, when pistol and focus can be used at full effectiveness from range.

On 8/29/2023 at 4:09 AM, Roadkizzle.2157 said:

 

You still haven't explained how having some ranged skills on a bar suddenly make a melee weapon ineffective.

I have, but it might have been between the lines a bit.

To state it explicitly: A two-handed weapon is supposed to have a set of skills that generate an intended playstyle. If the playstyle is melee, the 2-5 skills are generally intended to either help you keep your target in melee range, to keep you alive while in melee range, or to help deal damage while in melee. If you look at the existing 2H melee weapons, just about every ranged attack is a cripple or an immobilise or a pull or a stun or something like that. Why? Because they're anti-kiting skills. They're ranged attacks that support a melee playstyle. And then there are other skills in there that help to secure the kill.

The hybrid you propose would have a melee autoattack but would not have the skills to properly support a melee playstyle, because most of the cooldown skills would be balanced as ranged skills. If it was just as good as a full melee weapon while in melee range while also having a lot of ranged damage, it'd be overpowered, while if it's not, then it... won't be as good as a full melee weapon. While it won't function as a skirmishing weapon because the lack of a ranged autoattack means its standoff capability only lasts for so long. We have a few melee-ranged hybrids in the game, but they always go with a ranged autoattack and heavy-hitting semi-melee skills for securing the kill rather than trying to do it the other way around. Attempts to do it the other way have all ended up being reworked into having a ranged autoattack, so why keep repeating past mistakes?

Offhands have a high chance of being somewhat hybridy so they can combine with either a ranged or a melee weapon, but two-handed weapons with a melee autoattack need to commit to being melee.

On 8/29/2023 at 4:09 AM, Roadkizzle.2157 said:

Having a few good ranged abilities means when a boss uses a Spread Out mechanic the character is still able to participate with a few attacks. Guardians can't do any attacks in this time.

Guardian loses very little damage for having a sceptre they can pull out in those circumstances. Condi guardians basically lose nothing because they're normally just remaining in axe/torch regardless. Power guardian uses both sets in the rotation, but swapping sw/f for sc/f doesn't lose you that much.

On 8/29/2023 at 4:09 AM, Roadkizzle.2157 said:

But yes once the ranged attacks are on cooldown then you have to wait for them to come back. With a low cooldown DPS shot and Phantasms that Mesmers already reset cooldowns on they can continue fighting for 10 seconds or so at range.

But if a boss has a full phase where you need to be doing ranged then you'll run out of attacks so swap.

But having some ranged attacks on a melee weapon means you don't lose out doing quick mechanics that make you move away temporarily.

And mesmer already has options that work for those sorts of situations. That sort of niche scenario is where a melee weapon with a ranged offhand works well. It's also a situation where having a gap-closer is often very useful for getting back in quickly.

Edited August 31, 2023 by draxynnic.3719

[Hoan.5389]

It's going to be awesome. I don't even care what the playstyle is like, Rifle/GS is going to be awesome!

[Zentoji.8654]

do we know when we are supposed to preview the new weapons, I'm so out of the loop.

[dead.7638]

“Second major update” who knows

[Dukenorton.1240]

On 6/27/2023 at 12:59 PM, gancel.4502 said:

we already have long range GS and Dagger.

melee rifle would be fun.

• switch to rifle - confuse every one around you, including yourself lol
• 5 skill different way of hitting enemies with rifle butt, adds confusion every time

Honestly the rifle butt would be pretty neat.  I think less "hey you're up in my space" and more like a combat color guard, seems more like the mesmer's thing as a performing combat magician.  Magic bullet sniper would be alright but that seems too "normal".  I think to the examples that we already have with Virtuoso's magic throwing daggers, literally throwing the greatsword at enemies while using it as a magic focus, and creating vortexes with the spear.  Seems like the Guild Wars team has a lot of interesting stuff to pull from.  

[vandrefalk.6823]

On 6/27/2023 at 7:56 PM, Exciton.8942 said:

Yeah thematically it sound weird. But it is a two-handed weapon that mesmer community has been asking for some time. It means we will also get a new phantasm.

Imagine the rifle phantasm being called the Illusionary Gunslinger who dual wields pistols, for a joke 😄

[vandrefalk.6823]

40 minutes ago, Dukenorton.1240 said:

Honestly the rifle butt would be pretty neat.  I think less "hey you're up in my space" and more like a combat color guard, seems more like the mesmer's thing as a performing combat magician.  Magic bullet sniper would be alright but that seems too "normal".  I think to the examples that we already have with Virtuoso's magic throwing daggers, literally throwing the greatsword at enemies while using it as a magic focus, and creating vortexes with the spear.  Seems like the Guild Wars team has a lot of interesting stuff to pull from.  

We're going full melee rifle as in Equilibrium 😄 

[Dukenorton.1240]

4 hours ago, Dondarrion.2748 said:

We're going full melee rifle as in Equilibrium 😄 

Full on Gun Fu Graviton Cleric up in here

[Salt Mode.3780]

Just give us what deadeyes have so we can both get nerfed at the same time 

[ShadowKatt.6740]

Long thread, I should spend more time on the forums.

I'm actually excietd for this. I love rifles, I am a mesmer, now I finally get to play with both together. ALL I WANT, I say, ALL I WANT is to be my own 4 man rifle squad. Just let me have clones and put rounds downrange. Let me have long range and just BLAM BLAM BLAM BLAM BLAM!

[Alpha.1308]

just holy butts please for the love of Lyssa just no more projectiles, or at least not too many 

like GS not having "melee" skills besides 5? yea, please gib max 1 projectile skill and the rest something actually reliable 

"portal"ish variations of Marks please and thank you  

Edited September 23, 2023 by Alpha.1308

[Twilightmage.8309]

I really hope its another power or hybrid ranged weapon. Dagger was really boring and spammy so i hope rifle is more interesting.

[Roadkizzle.2157]

11 hours ago, Twilightmage.8309 said:

I really hope its another power or hybrid ranged weapon. Dagger was really boring and spammy so i hope rifle is more interesting.

Well the designers have made it clear they are trying to fill in the gaps the classes have.

Ranger didn't have 1h support or defensive weapons so the Maces fill in those gaps.

Warrior has the worst healing potential and the staff is there to fill in the gap.

Mesmer doesn't have room for yet another pure damage ranged weapon.

 

But regardless, boring and spammy is the definition of every rifle in the game. 

Try using a Focus with the dagger. It makes it more interesting being able to use the Pull on the focus to group up the enemies and multiply the damage of the dagger skills.