Future Update: Expanded Weapon Proficiency Thoughts

[idpersona.3810]

I don't think there's a way to get an answer, but I'm curious what the thought process was pertaining to which classes got which weapons. Some seem very odd combinations (axe for Thief instead of an offhand maybe).
Like...after Necro gets swords, every single class will have access to swords. While longbows are still limited to 2 main classes and a specialization (so 3 classes after all is said and done). Staff will be used by everyone except Engineers. The numbers are just very out of balance for the different weapon's usages. It just feels off to me.

Edited June 28, 2023 by idpersona.3810
Edit: changed the title since I mixed up Expanded Proficientcy and Weapon Master training

[Sobx.1758]

Probably the same thought process that accompanied the espec weapon choices. Which, again probably, is simply "we have this idea so we're doing this". I don't see how we could say what's definitely fitting or not fitting, seeing how weapons in gw2 can do whatever devs want them to do (like shooting magic lazer beams from gs). I don't think they should even care whether someone thinks "the weapon fits" since different players will always have a different opinion about that. In other words: I wouldn't say it's worth overthinking "how they made these particular choices".

[Batalix.2873]

I agree. The additions are very DPS and MH heavy.

We only have one warhorn espec, and no focus especs, and yet neither of those are being added to any class despite imo fitting very well for Guardian/Mesmer/Engi and Revenant/Ranger, respectively.

I also agree that offhand axe would make more sense for Thief, with some grapplehooking utility.

And even a lot of the other professions I feel wanted to be shuffled around. Take shortbow from Engi and give it to Mesmer as a mid-range/melee bardy weapon. Take rifle from Mesmer and give it to Ele as a longer-range mage-cannon. Take pistol off Ele because we already got two pistol especs and Guardian is over there being Edgelord McEdgy.

Honestly, only Warrior staff and Necro sword make perfect sense to me. And Revenant scepter would if it also got focus OH. And maayybe Ranger maces if they work as flails and not "half-Untamed-hammer". The rest just feel like really garbage choices.

[idpersona.3810]

I guess even without going into themes for these, I wonder about the number balance specifically. Sword being used by all 9 classes while Dagger is/will be 6. And Focus is just the base 4. And Longbow is/will be just 3 classes. That just seems really weird to me.
I'm currently at 13 of 16 legendary (land) weapons, with tons of alts so I look at these numbers when deciding what to work on next. So it just kind of stuck out to me how out of balance the actual weapon usage is.

Looking at it now, they've avoided adding any of the off hands to classes with this go around.

[Sigmoid.7082]

58 minutes ago, idpersona.3810 said:

Looking at it now, they've avoided adding any of the off hands to classes with this go around.

Likely a reaction to the "my espec only got an offhand? This sucks" threads in the past. 

[JohnWater.5760]

Pistol on Elementalist is super weird.

"Elementalist is a magical class, let's fight with pistols"

Why not Longbow? There's almost no class to play with the Longbow, and longbow suits much more than pistols. Longbow gives Forest mage/druid vibes and pistol gives alchemist vibes. Alchemist is not a mage.

[Barraind.7324]

Unless tied into a profession mechanic, or so absolutely pushed it makes your other options seem irrelevant,  "getting an offhand" is just a terrible feeling.  They're incapable of changing a playstyle by themselves (unless you're suddenly adding 2 blocks to something that didnt have an option for that before), due to not being the home of the auto-attack, and usually sporting long cooldowns, making them available at a maximum of once each weapon swap cycle, so they're either better than what you have already, used for a crucial skill you need, or pointless.

 

Necro getting torch on harb/core/Creaper, for instance, is just a better offhand than their base offhands.  But if torch was baseline, and you were to drop Focus onto necro today and be like HEY I GOT YOU THIS!  I dont know if anyone would care. 

Edited June 28, 2023 by Barraind.7324

[idpersona.3810]

24 minutes ago, JohnWater.5760 said:

Pistol on Elementalist is super weird.

"Elementalist is a magical class, let's fight with pistols"

Why not Longbow? There's almost no class to play with the Longbow, and longbow suits much more than pistols. Longbow gives Forest mage/druid vibes and pistol gives alchemist vibes. Alchemist is not a mage.

I can only imagine it's because they only came up with 3 skills and Longbow would require a full 5?

[Sigmoid.7082]

29 minutes ago, JohnWater.5760 said:

Pistol on Elementalist is super weird.

"Elementalist is a magical class, let's fight with pistols"

Why not Longbow? There's almost no class to play with the Longbow, and longbow suits much more than pistols. Longbow gives Forest mage/druid vibes and pistol gives alchemist vibes. Alchemist is not a mage.

Not really all that weird. I've seen as many gun mage threads over the years as I have longbow. Firing magic infused bullets etc. They both suit just as well. 

It also means they only need to make 18 skills instead of 26. 

[JohnWater.5760]

8 hours ago, Sigmoid.7082 said:

Not really all that weird. I've seen as many gun mage threads over the years as I have longbow. Firing magic infused bullets etc. They both suit just as well. 

It also means they only need to make 18 skills instead of 26. 

It is weird for aesthetic and gameplay.

GW2 is the only rpg I know that a MAGE doesn't have good options for ranged, and like it wasn't enough they just announced a mechanical weapon for magic.

There are years, many years, that I see players begging for something ranged, to be a real mage and the devs have been ignoring it for all these years.

Edited June 29, 2023 by JohnWater.5760

[Jin.8501]

4 hours ago, idpersona.3810 said:

Looking at it now, they've avoided adding any of the off hands to classes with this go around.

Good, the new weapon and spec was always the highlight of the expansions and getting an offhand for your main was like a kick in the nuts aka not getting anything new

[idpersona.3810]

2 minutes ago, Jin.8501 said:

Good, the new weapon and spec was always the highlight of the expansions and getting an offhand for your main was like a kick in the nuts aka not getting anything new

I like both Herald and Chonomancer thematically. Just seems like a few of them are going to be underused.
And I mentioned it a few times, but Longbow needs more users. By the numbers, Sword and Staff could use less (or at least don't need more).

[Jin.8501]

3 minutes ago, idpersona.3810 said:

I like both Herald and Chonomancer thematically. Just seems like a few of them are going to be underused.
And I mentioned it a few times, but Longbow needs more users. By the numbers, Sword and Staff could use less (or at least don't need more).

Personally can't wait out to test Herald Greatsword 🙂

[Randulf.7614]

I suspect this will be a permanent replacement for elites and we will get further options in a later expac

[Batalix.2873]

Ugh I keep looking at these new weapon choices and it gets stupider and stupider.

You know it's just bad, haphazard design when someone could have posted it on April 1 and everyone would have immediately recognized it as a joke.

Where the kitten even is "class fantasy" anymore in this game? Let's just give every profession a flaming semi-automatic-bayonet-chainsaw.

Kitten JJ Abrams, Steven Moffat design over here. Screw any original authorship this game had, these devs just wanna make their Kirk and Sherlock action figures kiss. Ninja Necro. Punisher Guardian. Lone Wolf Mesmer.

Unbelievable. Trash, trash design.

Edited June 28, 2023 by Batalix.2873

[Essence Snow.3194]

I'm happy with any new options that are additions.

[Panda.1967]

I said this in another topic about this... and I'll say it again...

Thief should get off-hand Focus in addition to the Axe... thief desperately needs and offhand that complements the Scepter from Spectre...

Shortbow doesn't make much sense for Engineer... a Scepter with Electrical an magnetic abilities and/or a warhorn as a power offhand weapon would have been nice...

Rifle mesmer is cool and all... but dagger offhand and/or pistol mainhand would have been better...

Ranger mace is an ok addition... but the community has been asking for Rifle or Pistols forever...

Excited to see pistol on Elementalist... disappointed to see its only mainhand...

Revenant, Warrior, and Necromancer are perfect... wouldn't change a thing with them... unless of course Revenant Scepter isn't based on Ritualist Channeling Magic abilities...

and I've got no opinion on Guardian Pistols...

3 hours ago, Randulf.7614 said:

I suspect this will be a permanent replacement for elites and we will get further options in a later expac

I'm just worried what they plan to do once they give Warrior it's last weapon... all that is left now is Mainhand Pistol, Shortbow, Scepter, & Focus... It'd be awesome if they made aquatic weapons into land weapons... but I'm skeptical as to if we'll ever get that... I want spear on land so bad though...

Edited June 29, 2023 by Panda.1967

[Fueki.4753]

Swords are the quintessential weapon in many fantasy works and even sometimes in science fiction.

It doesn't surprise me, that all professions will be able to use them.

I think it's weirder that they stubbornly refuse to give Thief an offhand sword. Maybe they really just don't want to give Thief more dual skills than necessary, while they happily dish them out for Elementalist.

That aside, I really don't care much for the new weapons. I especially have no love for Rifle on Mesmer or Pistols on Elementalist and Guardian.

The only ones they might end up interesting to me are Warrior's Staff and Revenant's Sceptre.

Edited June 29, 2023 by Fueki.4753

[Batalix.2873]

19 hours ago, Panda.1967 said:

I said this in another topic about this... and I'll say it again...

Thief should get off-hand Focus in addition to the Axe... thief desperately needs and offhand that complements the Scepter from Spectre...

Shortbow doesn't make much sense for Engineer... a Scepter with Electrical an magnetic abilities and/or a warhorn as a power offhand weapon would have been nice...

Rifle mesmer is cool and all... but dagger offhand and/or pistol mainhand would have been better...

Ranger mace is an ok addition... but the community has been asking for Rifle or Pistols forever...

Excited to see pistol on Elementalist... disappointed to see its only mainhand...

Revenant, Warrior, and Necromancer are perfect... wouldn't change a thing with them... unless of course Revenant Scepter isn't based on Ritualist Channeling Magic abilities...

and I've got no opinion on Guardian Pistols...

I'm just worried what they plan to do once they give Warrior it's last weapon... all that is left now is Mainhand Pistol, Shortbow, Scepter, & Focus... It'd be awesome if they made aquatic weapons into land weapons... but I'm skeptical as to if we'll ever get that... I want spear on land so bad though...

Imo to keep professions largely within their own distinguished corners and their identities intact, two questions need to be asked:

1) Are there any weapons that are *more-suited* to this core profession's identity? If so, those should probably be added to core first.

2) Are there any other professions that are *more-suited* to using this weapon that do not yet have it? If so, those professions should probably get that weapon, or neither profession should.

Look at Warrior staff for example:

1) Not really. MH pistol and shortbow are about on par with staff, but nothing is a standalone winner and staff would add more to a kit that already has OH pistol and longbow.

2) The only other class without staff is Engi. Staff definitely suits Warrior better than Engi.

Conclusion: Staff Warrior is a good addition.

Looking at focus thief, focus is a *magic* and *support* oriented OH.

1) Yes. There are better thief weapons, particularly axe and OH sword, but also maybe torch. Focus is really low on thief's priority in incrementing its core identity. Thief should probably look at other options before focus.

2) Yes. Both Revenant and Herald are more support and magic-oriented than Thief, which tends to be more about evasion, self-ish DPS, and practicality over magic. Both Revenant and Ranger should probably get focus before looking into giving it into Thief.

Conclusion: focus is not a good choice for Thief.

Imo:

* Guardian: fails for OH pistol and not Warhorn being more appropriate to core Guardian.

* Mesmer: fails for rifle being more appropriate to Ele than Mesmer (YMMV).

* Necro: fails for OH sword being more appropriate for Thief than Necro, and arguably less appropriate to Necro than shield.

* Ranger: fails for OH mace and not focus or shield.

In addition to this, giving Ele pistol and not rifle/longbow is just creating a second scepter, whereas rifle would complete its kit more. And Engi just kind of lies in a middle ground where all options feel kind of lackluster: shortbow, torch, warhorn, axe...don't matter really.

Overall, more of these weapon additions blur and dilute class fantasy more than they strengthen it, and since clearly there was a way to do that and the devs didn't, I consider these changes fairly bad.

[Panda.1967]

1 hour ago, Batalix.2873 said:

Looking at focus thief, focus is a *magic* and *support* oriented OH.

1) Yes. There are better thief weapons, particularly axe and OH sword, but also maybe torch. Focus is really low on thief's priority in incrementing its core identity. Thief should probably look at other options before focus.

2) Yes. Both Revenant and Herald are more support and magic-oriented than Thief, which tends to be more about evasion, self-ish DPS, and practicality over magic. Both Revenant and Ranger should probably get focus before looking into giving it into Thief.

Conclusion: focus is not a good choice for Thief.

If you look at core only... and completely ignore that elite spec weapons are going to be available to everyone... sure... but because of the removal of the spec lock for elite spec weapons... I disagree about focus being a bad choice for thief... Lets look at what thief has available right now for one-hand weapon options shall we?

Sword: main-hand melee power weapon
Dagger: main-hand melee condi weapon, offhand hybrid weapon
Pistol: main-hand ranged weapon, offhand ranged weapon
Scepter: main-hand support weapon

Notice something? Neither dagger nor pistol are good choices for off-hand support... currently the choice between dagger or pistol offhand is based purely on the dual wield skill for Scepter... the actual skills of the off-hand weapon are irrelevant if you're playing a support thief because neither dagger nor pistol offhand have any support skills...

are there better fits than focus thematically for the concept of core-thief? sure... but rogue still needs an off-hand support weapon... for those are choices are pretty much restricted to Focus, Warhorn, & Shield...

Warhorn doesn't fit the stealthy thief concept at all
Shield doesn't mesh well with the highly agile and mobile thief
Focus is only odd because of magic, but thief's use Shadow magic in GW lore... the GW1 Assassin used Shadow magic, the Spectre focuses on Shadow Magic... Magic is a part of the thief's toolkit and has been since day one. When it comes to support off-hands focus is the only one that actually fits lorewise and thematically for the thief...

[Batalix.2873]

17 minutes ago, Panda.1967 said:

If you look at core only... and completely ignore that elite spec weapons are going to be available to everyone... sure... but because of the removal of the spec lock for elite spec weapons... I disagree about focus being a bad choice for thief... Lets look at what thief has available right now for one-hand weapon options shall we?

Sword: main-hand melee power weapon
Dagger: main-hand melee condi weapon, offhand hybrid weapon
Pistol: main-hand ranged weapon, offhand ranged weapon
Scepter: main-hand support weapon

Notice something? Neither dagger nor pistol are good choices for off-hand support... currently the choice between dagger or pistol offhand is based purely on the dual wield skill for Scepter... the actual skills of the off-hand weapon are irrelevant if you're playing a support thief because neither dagger nor pistol offhand have any support skills...

are there better fits than focus thematically for the concept of core-thief? sure... but rogue still needs an off-hand support weapon... for those are choices are pretty much restricted to Focus, Warhorn, & Shield...

Warhorn doesn't fit the stealthy thief concept at all
Shield doesn't mesh well with the highly agile and mobile thief
Focus is only odd because of magic, but thief's use Shadow magic in GW lore... the GW1 Assassin used Shadow magic, the Spectre focuses on Shadow Magic... Magic is a part of the thief's toolkit and has been since day one. When it comes to support off-hands focus is the only one that actually fits lorewise and thematically for the thief...

You're forgetting torch, which is a better fit than focus, tbh.

On a scale of magic to not-magic, thief is pretty low. I would say the only less-magical professions are Warrior and Engi. And again, as long as Revenant and Ranger don't have foci, I really am loathe to give it to Thief before either of them.

And on a scale of "support", I would say Thief is the profession *least* concerned with support and the most selfish, identity-wise, with the only close competition being Necro. So I don't really see much need to give it more support weapon options, especially when it has a good deal of group utility in venoms, preparations, and deceptions that I would rather see buffed first.

But if all three (Rev, Ranger, Thief) got it I wouldn't complain as much; it is definitely more in the middle as far as potential thief weapons go, more appropriate than hammer/GS/longbow. I just am against this whole paradigm shift that has been happening since EoD where apparently core professions don't mean anything anymore and Thief is now Necro, Necro is now Thief, Guardian is now a policeman, etc. etc. The authorship behind a lot of the new espec/weapon designs does not have the integrity of older GW2.

Edited June 29, 2023 by Batalix.2873

[Panda.1967]

35 minutes ago, Batalix.2873 said:

You're forgetting torch, which is a better fit than focus, tbh.

I'd accept torch... I only forgot about it because of how underutilzied it is... but it would be a good support thief weapon

35 minutes ago, Batalix.2873 said:

But if all three (Rev, Ranger, Thief) got it I wouldn't complain as much. I just am against this whole paradigm shift that has been happening since EoD where apparently core professions don't mean anything anymore and Thief is now Necro, Necro is now Thief, Guardian is now a policeman, etc. etc. The authorship behind a lot of the new espec/weapon designs does not have the integrity of older GW2.

GW2 elite specs have been largely about either introducing elements from missing GW1 professions or adding some multi-class flavor, due to GW1 secondary professions...

Dragonhunter = Guardian/Ranger, Firebrand = Guardian/Mesmer, Willbender = Guardian/Thief (GW1 Assassin more specifically)
Berserker = Warrior/Paragon, Spellbreaker = Warrior/Dervish, Bladesworn = Warrior/Engineer
Scrapper = Improved Engineer, Holosmith = Engineer/Necromancer, Mechanist = Engineer/Ranger
Daredevil = Improved Thief, Deadeye = Thief/Ranger, Spectre = Thief/Necromancer
Tempest = Elementalist/Paragon, Weaver = Elementalist/Thief, Catalyst = Elementalist/Engineer
Chronomancer = Improved Mesmer (and a homage to a canceled GW1 profession & expansion), Mirage = Mesmer/Thief, Virtuoso = Mesmer/Thief (again)
Reaper = Necromancer/Paragon, Scourge = Necromancer/Guardian, Harbinger = Necromancer/Engineer

Revenant elite specs don't follow this design due to how the Revenant works... all Revenant elite specs are merely alternative improvements to the core Revenant.

 

The weapon choices for some elite specs are rather odd... but many are nods to popular GW1 builds...

Untamed getting hammer was a nod to the R/W Hammer Ranger builds from GW1. The Spellbreaker using Daggers was a nod to the D/A and A/D permanent Shadowform builds, the Spellbreaker's Full Counter ability is also a nod to those builds too, and the choice of it being a Warrior spec was a nod to the similarly invulnerable W/Mo builds (Personally, I like to think my W/D Varsh Spellbreaker had some influence, but I know it didn't). Hammer on Catalyst was a nod to the W/E hammer builds... Warhorn on Tempest was a nod to the GW1 Paragon which was a heavy influence on the spec's design (many of the traits are references to Paragon skills), and also contributed to the design of the Reaper & Berserker...

Edited June 29, 2023 by Panda.1967

[Batalix.2873]

15 minutes ago, Panda.1967 said:

I'd accept torch... 

GW2 elite specs have been largely about either introducing elements from missing GW1 professions or adding some multi-class flavor, due to GW1 secondary professions...

Dragonhunter = Guardian/Ranger, Firebrand = Guardian/Mesmer, Willbender = Guardian/Thief (GW1 Assassin more specifically)
Berserker = Warrior/Paragon, Spellbreaker = Warrior/Dervish, Bladesworn = Warrior/Engineer
Scrapper = Improved Engineer, Holosmith = Engineer/Necromancer, Mechanist = Engineer/Ranger
Daredevil = Improved Thief, Deadeye = Thief/Ranger, Spectre = Thief/Necromancer
Tempest = Elementalist/Paragon, Weaver = Elementalist/Thief, Catalyst = Elementalist/Engineer
Chronomancer = Improved Mesmer (and a homage to a canceled GW1 profession & expansion), Mirage = Mesmer/Thief, Virtuoso = Mesmer/Thief (again)
Reaper = Necromancer/Paragon, Scourge = Necromancer/Guardian, Harbinger = Necromancer/Engineer

Revenant elite specs don't follow this design due to how the Revenant works... all Revenant elite specs are merely alternative improvements to the core Revenant.

 

The weapon choices for some elite specs are rather odd... but many are nods to popular GW1 builds...

Untamed getting hammer was a nod to the R/W Hammer Ranger builds from GW1. The Spellbreaker using Daggers was a nod to the D/A and A/D permanent Shadowform builds, the Spellbreaker's Full Counter ability is also a nod to those builds too, and the choice of it being a Warrior spec was a nod to the similarly invulnerable W/Mo builds (Personally, I like to think my W/D Varsh Spellbreaker had some influence, but I know it didn't). Hammer on Catalyst was a nod to the W/E hammer builds... Warhorn on Tempest was a nod to the GW1 Paragon which was a heavy influence on the spec's design (many of the traits are references to Paragon skills), and also contributed to the design of the Reaper & Berserker...

While yes I agree about the general design of especs, especially HoT/PoF especs, outside of Untamed being Bunny Thumper and Vindicator referencing two common skills I don't get GW1 reference at all from the EOD specs. I get "lazy copy paste jobs".

* Catalyst feels like Scrapper pasted onto Ele with no consideration for elegance.

* Mechanist is super-Ranger on Engi with no proper counterbalancing.

* WB largely just feels like DD 2.0 and doesn't feel like Guardian at all.

* Vindicator feels like a clunkier Shiro with hints of Ventark.

* Untamed barely has any identity and feels like an unhappy marriage between Berserker/Spellbreaker. It almost had an identity with FF, broke as it was, but that is gone.

* And Specter is by far the worst, feeling totally like core Necro/Scourge and not like Thief in the slightest. We already had an amazing shadow mage in Deadeye, why they went this direction is beyond me, other than the obvious explanation that EoD was rushed and they just reused assets as best they could.

So I don't really consider catering to the non-identities EoD brought us to be the soundest reasoning for new weapons. Especially since the EoD specs by and large don't really use their weapons in creative ways like HoT/PoF weapons, and in many cases (WB, Specter, Vindi especially, and to an extent Untamed) just feel like "slap weapon on profession". Which is what a lot of these new weapons feel like--they don't really build up or add to identity, they are just being added haphazardly to make it look like we are getting "content".

I don't see respect for the game's past or its future in a lot of these decisions. Just panicked "we gotta put something out quick" so everyone can keep their jobs while GW3 or whatever is next is still in development.

 

Edited June 30, 2023 by Batalix.2873

[Panda.1967]

6 minutes ago, Batalix.2873 said:

So I don't really consider catering to the non-identities EoD brought us to be the soundest reasoning for new weapons. Especially since the EoD specs by and large don't really use their weapons in creative ways like HoT/PoF weapons, and in many cases (WB, Specter, Vindi especially, and to an extent Untamed) just feel like "slap weapon on profession". Which is what a lot of these new weapons feel like--they don't really build up or add to identity, they are just being added haphazardly to make it look like we are getting "content".

I don't see respect for the game's past or its future in a lot of these decisions. Just panicked "we gotta put something out quick" so everyone can keep their jobs while GW3 or whatever is next is still in development.

Ok... so let me address these choices as best as I can from what I see with them... which is clearly a completely different perspective than what you have...

Willbender... Off-hand Sword was chosen to reference Shiro Tagachi from GW1 Factions. The man who became the greatest threat to the emperor. The entire spec was designed a an emulation of Shiro's ruthlessness and and cunning. To best protect the emperor from similar threats, their guard now emulate the greatest threat that Cantha's emperors have ever known... since lorewise Shiro used two swords, so to do WIllbenders.

Specter... Unlike the Deadeye, the specter doesn't merely use magic to enhance their own abilities... the Specter embraces shadow magic to its full extent, as a weapon, tool, and boon. The deadeye may have had cantrips, but they didn't actually embrace shadow magic, for them it was merely a tool, minor tricks to improve their own skills or throw their foe off. When shadow magic becomes your weapon, like it is for a Specter, you seek out a means through which to further harness it as a weapon. In GW1, A/Me and A/N and Me/A and N/A were fairly common "Shadow magic" builds... all of which typically used Wands (typically Curses or Domination Magic wands)... the actual design of the Specter however was a nod to the Mo/A Protection prayers builds that used Assassin Shadow Arts skills to protect themselves while keeping their allies alive with their Monk skills, which also typically used Wands.

Vindicator... This is an odd one... Archemorus used a Spear... and the only thing really known about Saint Viktor isthat he was a Warrior the only time he's ever depicted using a weapon is when he's wielding one of Shiro's Swords in the Factions trailer... so perhaps the greatsword is a nod to that, since Revenant already had main-hand and offhand sword this was the only sword they could give Vindicator... Also, he does wield Shiro's sword two-handed in that scene...

Untamed... As stated already... Bunny Thumper... but more than that, the Untamed is tied in with Luxon lore... one of the NPCs you fight in GW1 on the Luxon side is actually a Bunny Thumper ranger, and also he's the lore basis of the Untamed spec.

 

If you want hap hazard random weapons... its not EoD specs... it's PoF... Both Firebrand and Mirage got Axes with no clear explanation for them... both specs could have easily gotten just about any other weapon and it would have made just as much sense... The Holosmith got a Sword for the sole reason of making a lightsaber, nothing else... they could have given it anything. Weaver could have had any mainhand melee weapon, sword was just the simplest option. The way Soulbeast actually could have been given Hammer... in fact it feels more like the original Bunny Thumper builds than the Untamed does... The Untamed was made because people were dissapointed that the Soulbeast wasn't the GW1 Bunny Thumper build they were expecting...

Speaking of ranger elite specs... I forgot them in my earlier list...
Druid = Ranger/Dervish (Avatar of Melandru/Avatar of Dwayna builds specifically), Soulbeast = Ranger/Warrior, Untamed = Ranger/Thief

[Batalix.2873]

1 hour ago, Panda.1967 said:

Ok... so let me address these choices as best as I can from what I see with them... which is clearly a completely different perspective than what you have...

Willbender... Off-hand Sword was chosen to reference Shiro Tagachi from GW1 Factions. The man who became the greatest threat to the emperor. The entire spec was designed a an emulation of Shiro's ruthlessness and and cunning. To best protect the emperor from similar threats, their guard now emulate the greatest threat that Cantha's emperors have ever known... since lorewise Shiro used two swords, so to do WIllbenders.

Specter... Unlike the Deadeye, the specter doesn't merely use magic to enhance their own abilities... the Specter embraces shadow magic to its full extent, as a weapon, tool, and boon. The deadeye may have had cantrips, but they didn't actually embrace shadow magic, for them it was merely a tool, minor tricks to improve their own skills or throw their foe off. When shadow magic becomes your weapon, like it is for a Specter, you seek out a means through which to further harness it as a weapon. In GW1, A/Me and A/N and Me/A and N/A were fairly common "Shadow magic" builds... all of which typically used Wands (typically Curses or Domination Magic wands)... the actual design of the Specter however was a nod to the Mo/A Protection prayers builds that used Assassin Shadow Arts skills to protect themselves while keeping their allies alive with their Monk skills, which also typically used Wands.

Vindicator... This is an odd one... Archemorus used a Spear... and the only thing really known about Saint Viktor isthat he was a Warrior the only time he's ever depicted using a weapon is when he's wielding one of Shiro's Swords in the Factions trailer... so perhaps the greatsword is a nod to that, since Revenant already had main-hand and offhand sword this was the only sword they could give Vindicator... Also, he does wield Shiro's sword two-handed in that scene...

Untamed... As stated already... Bunny Thumper... but more than that, the Untamed is tied in with Luxon lore... one of the NPCs you fight in GW1 on the Luxon side is actually a Bunny Thumper ranger, and also he's the lore basis of the Untamed spec.

 

If you want hap hazard random weapons... its not EoD specs... it's PoF... Both Firebrand and Mirage got Axes with no clear explanation for them... both specs could have easily gotten just about any other weapon and it would have made just as much sense... The Holosmith got a Sword for the sole reason of making a lightsaber, nothing else... they could have given it anything. Weaver could have had any mainhand melee weapon, sword was just the simplest option. The way Soulbeast actually could have been given Hammer... in fact it feels more like the original Bunny Thumper builds than the Untamed does... The Untamed was made because people were dissapointed that the Soulbeast wasn't the GW1 Bunny Thumper build they were expecting...

Speaking of ranger elite specs... I forgot them in my earlier list...
Druid = Ranger/Dervish (Avatar of Melandru/Avatar of Dwayna builds specifically), Soulbeast = Ranger/Warrior, Untamed = Ranger/Thief 

WB being modeled after Shiro, a decidedly NOT guardian-like assassin, and not a ritualist, especially when Shiro is a revenant legend, is redundant, awful design. Period.

Specter could have done much more than what it did with lazy scepter balls and copy-paste port-wells, reference or not.

For all Vindicator *could* have used a GS and slot skills to communicate Vikky and Archy, it didn't. Both are pretty generic skillets.

Firebrand - Axe 2 is as a runecarver, Axe 3 as a crook, and arguably  Axe 1 as a wand.

Mirage - kinda loose but Axe 1 and 2 are kind of like a dust devil, Axe 3 as a clone fake out, ambush as something resembling throwing axes for a stage performance.

Holosmith - sword 2 shoots projectiles, the only sword ability to do that outside of Zerker primal burst. Kinda thin I agree but not totally unimaginative like Vindi GS or WB sword.

Soulbeast - agreed on bunny thumper but also using daggers like claws is fine for that fantasy. But I do admit the dagger especs generally could go harder on unique skills

 

I still disagree. At least the lacking PoF weapons (Soulbeast, Spellbreaker, Holosmith) all have really deep engaging mechanics and skill slots. Can't say the same for Vindi, Specter, WB.

 

Edited June 30, 2023 by Batalix.2873