July 18 - no announced changes to engineer when some are needed

[SolarDragon.7063]

Mech Genius is horrific right now, and the icon is way too subtle.
Also, the mech mace barrier changes make it overall a worse barrier generator despite the much publicised barrier burst change.

Scrapper... I hate it.

Holo could do with like... any boon generation, honestly. It's probably the closest to 0-boon of any spec in the whole game right now.

[Tuskali.6417]

15 hours ago, foxtrot.6902 said:

Wait you mean, please give engi the ele treatment? ele is an absolute beast in wvw (or any game mode right now i'd say), I'd love some of that treatment for engi lol...

I think ele even has higher super speed up time now? Scrapper has been blasted hard into the ground, a good chunk of over correcting w/super speed nerfs... looking at x1 18sec gap closer. We don't have shadow steps, ports, or even really any snares like some other classes and locked into one weapon so not like can swap to a ranged. Yes there's mortar kit but if anyone dies to those sky watermelons that's on you... it's aimed with a 2 sec air time + cast time.

Additional updates kind of kicked every engi spec in the shins depending on trait selection eg) tools cd reduction (shield), gadgeteer rocket boots reduction, and the elixir S action. Then there's rifle autos that can probably null dmg w/regen alone lol not to mention the after cast is brutal so not exactly easy to keep counter pressure going if you're swapping into kits often. 

Ugh...

I have to admit I´m not up to date about this because I play ele very casually in open world.

But it´s just been a popular meme for a long long time that ele gets nerfed with every patch and that you have to play the piano to reach numbers other classes reach with 3 skills. That´s why i said it.

[Tuskali.6417]

15 hours ago, foxtrot.6902 said:

Wait you mean, please give engi the ele treatment? ele is an absolute beast in wvw (or any game mode right now i'd say), I'd love some of that treatment for engi lol...

I think ele even has higher super speed up time now? Scrapper has been blasted hard into the ground, a good chunk of over correcting w/super speed nerfs... looking at x1 18sec gap closer. We don't have shadow steps, ports, or even really any snares like some other classes and locked into one weapon so not like can swap to a ranged. Yes there's mortar kit but if anyone dies to those sky watermelons that's on you... it's aimed with a 2 sec air time + cast time.

Additional updates kind of kicked every engi spec in the shins depending on trait selection eg) tools cd reduction (shield), gadgeteer rocket boots reduction, and the elixir S action. Then there's rifle autos that can probably null dmg w/regen alone lol not to mention the after cast is brutal so not exactly easy to keep counter pressure going if you're swapping into kits often. 

Ugh...

I have to admit I´m not up to date about this because I play ele very casually in open world.

But it´s just been a popular meme for a long long time that ele gets nerfed with every patch and that you have to play the piano to reach numbers other classes reach with 3 skills. That´s why i said it.

[Tuskali.6417]

15 hours ago, foxtrot.6902 said:

Wait you mean, please give engi the ele treatment? ele is an absolute beast in wvw (or any game mode right now i'd say), I'd love some of that treatment for engi lol...

I think ele even has higher super speed up time now? Scrapper has been blasted hard into the ground, a good chunk of over correcting w/super speed nerfs... looking at x1 18sec gap closer. We don't have shadow steps, ports, or even really any snares like some other classes and locked into one weapon so not like can swap to a ranged. Yes there's mortar kit but if anyone dies to those sky watermelons that's on you... it's aimed with a 2 sec air time + cast time.

Additional updates kind of kicked every engi spec in the shins depending on trait selection eg) tools cd reduction (shield), gadgeteer rocket boots reduction, and the elixir S action. Then there's rifle autos that can probably null dmg w/regen alone lol not to mention the after cast is brutal so not exactly easy to keep counter pressure going if you're swapping into kits often. 

Ugh...

I have to admit I´m not up to date about this because I play ele very casually in open world.

But it´s just been a popular meme for a long long time that ele gets nerfed with every patch and that you have to play the piano to reach numbers other classes reach with 3 skills. That´s why i said it.

[Tuskali.6417]

Lol sorry for spam. It seems like there was a bug.

[AlPower.2476]

19 hours ago, Tuskali.6417 said:

Ugh...

I have to admit I´m not up to date about this because I play ele very casually in open world.

But it´s just been a popular meme for a long long time that ele gets nerfed with every patch and that you have to play the piano to reach numbers other classes reach with 3 skills. That´s why i said it.

That only happens with some instanced PvE builds; nothing more. 

Also, there are some builds at the level or maybe harder than any ele but they are overnerfed, such as old core condi engi. So that's not a excuse for having them broken in PvE (THEY ARE NOT BROKEN in PvE; they are fine; even I would say that they need little improvenets, such as Quickness Cata and Alacrity Tempest. I was just mentioning it in case there's someone who believes they should be doing 60k DPS in PvE). The problem is mostly a PvP and WvW thing.

[Tiviana.2650]

Ham needs better self heals, out of all the healing classes their self heals are trash, yeah they can heal a group good, but not themselves. Who designs these things!

[Noxin.9276]

I love the scrapper change - quickness is much more interesting to apply than pressing the same utilities on cooldown with no thought - just an amazing way to keep the LE/LI players on scourge/mechanist. Insane amount of quickness you can apply with a few smart combo interactions.

[Kuma.1503]

I've already adapated to the change in PvE. 

Being able to play condi scrapper now is a huge plus. And heal Scrapper is definitely improved... if you're one of the players who made a habit of timing all of your blast finishers into your Blast Gyro for 25 might. You now get quickness as well for doing what you were already did before. And now there's no obligation to burn your heal, stunbreak, and bulwark/purge gyro off CD as well just to keep quickness up. 

Power Scrapper isn't as bad as people are making it out to be. I've yet to fling myself to my death with Rocket Charge, but I do miss being able to save it as an extra dodge. 

 

What I think can be improved:

• Make Kinetic Accelerators work on any combo finisher.

 

Whirl and Projectile would open up more build space for us. Some finishers can give less value than others if it needs to be balanced, but given other specs just give perma boons passively for free now, I don't think that's an issue. No need to make Scrapper needlessly restricted. 

 

• Give Scrapper Quickness in PvP/WvW.

 

 We've been nerfed more than enough. Ele does superspeed better than we do now, while having better ranged pressure, more on demand blocks/invulns, more sustain, a teleport, far superior boon uptime, better cleanse, perma stab, shocking aura, magnetic aura, and their damage goes through reflects. Even Scrapper's unique ability to pressure while kiting isn't so unique because ele scepter can also do that. Dragon's tooth is especially noteworthy. It's an ability that requires no LoS, goes through reflects, latches onto the target and crits for 7k+. 

All this, and you mean to tell me that Scrapper doing slow, interruptable Blast combos for quickness would be too OP for the game mode?

but Ele being who quite literally outclasses Scrapper in every category is fine to have instant cast quickness? That they get for free with no traits required?

There is no dev bias in Gw2. 

Edited July 8, 2023 by Kuma.1503

[WipZedKay.5316]

6 hours ago, Kuma.1503 said:

Being able to play condi scrapper now is a huge plus. And heal Scrapper is definitely improved... if you're one of the players who made a habit of timing all of your blast finishers into your Blast Gyro for 25 might. You now get quickness as well for doing what you were already did before. And now there's no obligation to burn your heal, stunbreak, and bulwark/purge gyro off CD as well just to keep quickness up. 

Power Scrapper isn't as bad as people are making it out to be. I've yet to fling myself to my death with Rocket Charge, but I do miss being able to save it as an extra dodge.

What I think can be improved:

• Make Kinetic Accelerators work on any combo finisher.

Whirl and Projectile would open up more build space for us. Some finishers can give less value than others if it needs to be balanced, but given other specs just give perma boons passively for free now, I don't think that's an issue. No need to make Scrapper needlessly restricted. 

While the new way to play scrapper isn't necessarily bad or wrong by any means, it does pigeon hold you like before except with leap/blast finishers instead of gyros. While this has opened up heal and condi scrapper quite a bit, it has also made power scrapper fundamentally different to play. While the numbers are fine, it does suck for me and many others who loved the gunho berserker gameplay power scrapper had before the balance patch. I do agree that removing the restriction that leap and blast finishers to give scrapper the flavour of ''look buddy, just do combos okay?'', as all the gyros all provide a combo field or finisher it would therefore make sense to have quickness not far away. While it does promote gyro gameplay, it doesn't limit you too it which is also very healthy for experimentation and access to bring utility or skills you prefer over the meta choices.

[Kodama.6453]

On 7/8/2023 at 6:35 PM, Rayamon.4358 said:

While the new way to play scrapper isn't necessarily bad or wrong by any means, it does pigeon hold you like before except with leap/blast finishers instead of gyros. While this has opened up heal and condi scrapper quite a bit, it has also made power scrapper fundamentally different to play. While the numbers are fine, it does suck for me and many others who loved the gunho berserker gameplay power scrapper had before the balance patch. I do agree that removing the restriction that leap and blast finishers to give scrapper the flavour of ''look buddy, just do combos okay?'', as all the gyros all provide a combo field or finisher it would therefore make sense to have quickness not far away. While it does promote gyro gameplay, it doesn't limit you too it which is also very healthy for experimentation and access to bring utility or skills you prefer over the meta choices.

This just makes one of the core issues of scrapper more apparent: It has no real class mechanic.

Scrapper quickness generation will always force some skills or others into your skill bar, simply because there is no other way to implement it into scrapper. Let's look how other elite specs are distributing these key boons:

• Druid: While this spec has its own set of problems, the utility skill bar is free for them to chose how they see fit. Because the alacrity comes from the celestial avatar mode, which is their class mechanic they get for picking druid in the first place. So no investment in utility skills is needed.
• Untamed: Creates quickness with their ambushes, which again is a class mechanic they get for picking untamed in the first place.
• Tempest: Gives alacrity through overloading. You guessed it, class mechanic.
• Bladesworn: Gives alacrity through dragon trigger, class mechanic.
• Willbender: Gives alacrity through using flowing resolve, class mechanic.

And so on and so forth. The only sad excuse of a class mechanic which scrapper has is the function gyro. To make scrapper work in a similar way and allow us to pick our weapons and utility skills freely, they would have to load so much quickness into the function gyro that we can keep up permanent quickness just with the use of this single skill alone.

Which is most likely not gonna happen. This will keep being the problem with scrapper (utility skills/weapons forced into our builds which we have to spam off cooldown for the boon) until Anet decides that scrapper deserves to have an actual class mechanic instead of just one single skill change.

[PeLi.5498]

As a WvW squad/guild player, I think the scrapper needs to come some patchs back with the cleanses or coodowns and the superspeed. Really low condi cleanse and low superspeed uptime

[wasss.1208]

19 hours ago, Kodama.6453 said:

And so on and so forth. The only sad excuse of a class mechanic which scrapper has is the function gyro. To make scrapper work in a similar way and allow us to pick our weapons and utility skills freely, they would have to load so much quickness into the function gyro that we can keep up permanent quickness just with the use of this single skill alone.

The sad thing is: Bladesworn already does this. A single ability provides all of their alacrity on itself. And there are stuff, like Harbinger, Mechanist, Specter, that does their booning just by existing. They could literally give Function Gyro 20 seconds of quickness, or pulsing quickness when you have barrier/superspeed, and it wouldn't be an outlier at this point.

[Gaeb.2837]

Needs to apply quickness on Whirl finishers, that would fix the Quick-DPS Scrapper via Electowhirl/Shredder Gyro (and let us get away from being forced to use leap finishers, which are stupid imo as leap moves can easily go wrong and should be reactive decisions not required rotation). 

Need to tune down the amount of quickness given, its kind of ridiculous how much you can pump out with little or no boondur. 

Edited July 10, 2023 by Gaeb.2837

[SolarDragon.7063]

On 7/11/2023 at 8:23 AM, wasss.1208 said:

The sad thing is: Bladesworn already does this. A single ability provides all of their alacrity on itself. And there are stuff, like Harbinger, Mechanist, Specter, that does their booning just by existing. They could literally give Function Gyro 20 seconds of quickness, or pulsing quickness when you have barrier/superspeed, and it wouldn't be an outlier at this point.

It still doesn't fix a core problem of Function Gyro being supposedly for utility like revives and finishers... and then you're forced to use it for boons.

[SleepyBat.9034]

I can't find this preview you mentioned, link me it or it didn't happen.

[soleet.8473]

Most of the quickscrapper player do not like the new rotation and most of them stop playing it. There is only one guy I know who like it. 

 

Most of the people alac mechanist do not even understand how the mechanical genius works and I had to explain to them. 

 

See. People who pick engineer just want a chill game play while feeling adequate. The learning curve on this game even a simple class like engineer have a high ceiling. 

Most of the gamers are chill players who are quitters when the going get tough . Hardcore only represent a small amount. Let them play a more fancy class and do CMs or make a super cm to make them happy and don't mess around with the majority of gw2 population. There are many types of players and the game should support progressions of skills. 

What about the new players? I can't imagine if I start playing this game now. 

 

You are winning a battle but losing the War anet. 

Edited July 13, 2023 by soleet.8473
Spelling

[Wurzy.5182]

1 hour ago, soleet.8473 said:

Most of the quickscrapper player do not like the new rotation and most of them stop playing it. There is only one guy I know who like it. 

 

Most of the people alac mechanist do not even understand how the mechanical genius works and I had to explain to them. 

 

See. People who pick engineer just want a chill game play while feeling adequate. The learning curve on this game even a simple class like engineer have a high ceiling.

I do Feel that. I Play GW2 from time to time. QScrapper is the Class to come back too. Quite easy to play. Has a good flow. Dmg is decent. Gets the Job done.
Havent really played for some month again. Heard about the Add-On got exited and now this. 🙃

[Kodama.6453]

12 hours ago, SleepyBat.9034 said:

I can't find this preview you mentioned, link me it or it didn't happen.

Here you go, buddy.

[Jaruselka.5943]

On 7/3/2023 at 2:26 AM, Dawdler.8521 said:

I consider it a targeted attack against core engie. Just further proof Anet hates it. Especially when you consider what they DIDNT nerf, such as the ability to toss nades 180 degrees over your head (or just nade kit damage really).
 

It really does seem like the core engie is at the top of Anet's hate list..

[Crain.4789]

I really tried to cope with the new playstyle during the last weeks but the new qScrapper is still no fun. Died so many times in fractals although I'm usally the one who survives longest. So many jumps-to-death, so many flux bombs on me right after hitting hammer 3 and all the other negative side-effects that were discussed here before. I can't count anymore how many red circles I brought to the bosses in siren's reef. Or jumped overboard with a green one because autofocus decided to mess up while activating the finisher. 

My static group even decided to do without quickness because it's no fun for them, too. Guess, that's our first personal step to remove quickness from the game 😅

I like combo fields and can even get used to the fact that quickness is generated in this way. But not with jumps, regardless of whether they come from a hammer, a mace or whatever skill.

[Tuskali.6417]

On 7/15/2023 at 2:31 AM, Crain.4789 said:

I really tried to cope with the new playstyle during the last weeks but the new qScrapper is still no fun. Died so many times in fractals although I'm usally the one who survives longest. So many jumps-to-death, so many flux bombs on me right after hitting hammer 3 and all the other negative side-effects that were discussed here before. I can't count anymore how many red circles I brought to the bosses in siren's reef. Or jumped overboard with a green one because autofocus decided to mess up while activating the finisher. 

My static group even decided to do without quickness because it's no fun for them, too. Guess, that's our first personal step to remove quickness from the game 😅

I like combo fields and can even get used to the fact that quickness is generated in this way. But not with jumps, regardless of whether they come from a hammer, a mace or whatever skill.

I really feel that. I´m giving it a fair chance but it does not feel as good as before. Survivability was way easier and movement was better. I really don´t like combo fields being stationary.

[WipZedKay.5316]

Ignore this, realized that I posted something redundant thanks to a friend of mine and a brain fart on my end.

Still hope this post's discussion and activity has given enough to get some changes in for tomorrow though.

Edited July 17, 2023 by Rayamon.4358
Ignore this, I'm having bit of a brain fart thanks to a friend of mine.

[jason.1083]

On 7/6/2023 at 8:32 AM, SolarDragon.7063 said:

Mech Genius is horrific right now, and the icon is way too subtle.
Also, the mech mace barrier changes make it overall a worse barrier generator despite the much publicised barrier burst change.

Scrapper... I hate it.

Holo could do with like... any boon generation, honestly. It's probably the closest to 0-boon of any spec in the whole game right now.

Holosmiths can have good boons if you build it that way. Usually we don't because most builds are only focused on pure dps in group content.

Yes we got stripped of boons in the past few years, namely 5 stacks of might less in Corona Burst and the removal of stability from Crystal Config: Eclipse, which I'd love to see back. But Holos do have native boon generation. Quickness, Swiftness, Protection, Regeneration, Fury, Might, (used to have Stability and more Might). 

Edited July 18, 2023 by jason.1083

[WipZedKay.5316]

Looks like we're going to be stuck with the current implementation of Mechanical Genius for quite a while then. The patch notes didn't mention the trait so I went in-game to see if it perhaps there was an undocumented change but it's exactly like it was yesterday...

So if anyone from Anet ever sees this post or comment, it feels terrible to play mechanist as it is currently the only spec that actively punishes you for playing it. Not playing it poorly like overheating on holo but punishes you for just picking the spec. If it's too difficult to rework the trait, just give us back the grace period we had before; it wasn't a good solution to afk mech but it ''worked'' and didn't punish you for dodging away from the mech!