Everyone gets a free skyscale!

[Witch Engine.2305]

Quote

Rabbit jumps much faster.  The flight up of the skyscales is slow.  I often choose the rabbit for its speed.

Rabbit might be able to jump faster but the skyscale has all 6 degrees of movement, it's not limited to a vertical axis and it can wall jump to elevate higher while maintaining all degrees of movement allowing it to change directions for more difficult terrain. It's also safer.

Pair the skyscale with the griffon and the bunny is almost obsolete.

Edited June 30, 2023 by Witch Engine.2305

[Dibit.6259]

1 hour ago, Panda.1967 said:

Such aa narrow minded and self centered outlook… do you think mountain climbers see their achievements to be devalued when a tour company starts offering helicopter rides to the summit? Of course not… the sense of achievement isnt devalued by someone else getting it easier… you did it the hard way, you achieved something difficult or tedius… that achievement still exists, you still did it… someone else can still do it that way if they want to… this change doesnt affect you or your achievement, they didnt have to add a new mastery line that interacts with the old one, but they chose to anyways… 

I mean I did say personally I would find it insulting, as in my own opinion, I didn't expect everyone to agree with me. I also said I didn't mind there being an easier way to get skyscale, I just don't want it to be a free handout because this a game with a system of progress and reward.

My comment towards people getting upset if skyscale is handed out for free would happen regardless of whether you find it "narrow minded" and "self-centered". Skyscale is currently considered the "legendary" of mounts because of the time and effort it takes to get it. Its not hard but its something that takes investment and some people take pride in that, so some will feel that their achievement has been devalued. You can't speak for everyone's thoughts and feelings on the matter and neither can I. Fair enough it might not be "a lot of people" that I said it would be but still there are people out there with these thoughts and feelings.

I was just pointing out in regards to your previous post that they could implement a system similar to dragonfall where you can "rent skyscales" while being in that map if you do not already own a skyscale, meaning that the new content could still be accessible by players without the need of unlocking the skyscale off the bat.

Edited June 30, 2023 by Dibit.6259
typos

[Panda.1967]

19 minutes ago, Dibit.6259 said:

I was just pointing out in regards to your previous post that they could implement a system similar to dragonfall where you can "rent skyscales" while being in that map if you do not already own a skyscale, meaning that the new content could still be accessible by players without the need of unlocking the skyscale off the bat.

The problem with this is that it would limit their map design… all story relevant locations would have to be accessible without any trained skyscale masteries. Rental skyscales would have to be placed near every spot that the story requires you to get to that can’t be accessed without one. Which BTW is VERY limiting… untrained skyscale usage is barely better than fully trained glider usage… so to limit map design that much means they may as well just design everything to be accessible with gliders… and it is clear with their reveal statements that they fully intend to take full advantage of the mobility of the skyscale to make maps designed for them… dragonfall was the introduction of skyscales but its design was limited by untrained skyscale usage and fully navigable with just gliders, raptors, and springers (I 100% dragonfall without just those… and I didn’t even have lay line gliding at the time)…

[Linken.6345]

1 hour ago, yourexcellency.1458 said:

Everyone has the option to obtain a 'free legendary' already with the pendant. 

No the dont everyone dont own season 2-5

[Dibit.6259]

40 minutes ago, Panda.1967 said:

The problem with this is that it would limit their map design… all story relevant locations would have to be accessible without any trained skyscale masteries. Rental skyscales would have to be placed near every spot that the story requires you to get to that can’t be accessed without one. Which BTW is VERY limiting… untrained skyscale usage is barely better than fully trained glider usage… so to limit map design that much means they may as well just design everything to be accessible with gliders… and it is clear with their reveal statements that they fully intend to take full advantage of the mobility of the skyscale to make maps designed for them… dragonfall was the introduction of skyscales but its design was limited by untrained skyscale usage and fully navigable with just gliders, raptors, and springers (I 100% dragonfall without just those… and I didn’t even have lay line gliding at the time)…

Fair point, but at the same time they were able to implementing different methods in EOD in regards to traversing the map using new methods as well as those with pre-existing expansion masteries. It may feel limiting for sure but doesn't make it impossible. It would also encourage those to work towards getting the skyscale. There will be alternate routes for people trying to obtain the masteries of the skyscale too. Basically there isn't a guarantee that the skyscale will be free.

 

Edit: also you will need to buy the expansion in order to get the skyscale so in some way no it will not be free 😂

Edited June 30, 2023 by Dibit.6259
Sad attempt at joke

[Deciboyz.2510]

My guess like at some of the events/festivals there will be places to rent or limited use flying mounts like at Dragon fall i.e. Skyscale eyeri location. I doubt skyscale will be free but 'streamilned' suggest a less convoluted way to get maybe similar to the siege turtle. And rather than huge collections to get the saddle it will be more a do this zones events or simple gold outlay for components like the Gryphon or combination for instance. I like the sound of getting new skills and bonuses for doing both tracks. 

Edited June 30, 2023 by Deciboyz.2510
Spelling

[ArchonWing.9480]

Disregarding the free nonsense, everyone having a skyscale would not be a bad thing because then they could make much more cooler maps since they no longer have to balance for people not having mounts. Having a fight start with half your map not being there isn't a good thing.

And bunny is NOT useless even with skyscale. For short distance hops bunny can be faster, and unlike skyscale doesn't get stuck on random branches and stuff. Of course for longer traveling skyscale wins because that was what it was designed for, it is a jack of all trades mount meant for comfort over long distances while the bunny was a niche mount to begin with.

 

Edited June 30, 2023 by ArchonWing.9480

[Witch Engine.2305]

1 hour ago, Dibit.6259 said:

13 minutes ago, ArchonWing.9480 said:

And bunny is NOT useless even with skyscale.

 

 

No one said it was useless, it's almost obsolete. You got a mount that can jump up and down vertically verses the skyscale which can do that but it's free to move in all six degrees of motion allowing for far more precision and doing so safer because I can safely be away from mobs while I evaluate the terrain in real time. Oh btw, it's going to able to mount in combat and climb walls indefinitely next patch on top of everything else.

I loved the Bunny mount it was amazing before I had the skyscale, especially bunny paired with griffon, but the griffon/skyscale combo is just too good. Next patch its just getting better.

 

Edited June 30, 2023 by Witch Engine.2305

[ArchonWing.9480]

52 minutes ago, Witch Engine.2305 said:

No one said it was useless, it's almost obsolete. You got a mount that can jump up and down vertically verses the skyscale which can do that but it's free to move in all six degrees of motion allowing for far more precision and doing so safer because I can safely be away from mobs while I evaluate the terrain in real time. Oh btw, it's going to able to mount in combat and climb walls indefinitely next patch on top of everything else.

I loved the Bunny mount it was amazing before I had the skyscale, especially bunny paired with griffon, but the griffon/skyscale combo is just too good. Next patch its just getting better.

 

Yea but who cares about having 6 degrees of movement when all I want is to go up a moderately high ledge or two? That's just an overly elaborate tool for a simple task. Now part of this may be because I don't have a griffon but I usually don't have need for such complex maneuvers. A lot of times I actually do raptor on flat ground, bunny when going up slightly, and then skyscale for rest.

And yes the Skyscale just far outclasses the bunny in features  because the former is a premium mount. And even if bunny were buffed most people would probably not bother with the mount switching anyways so I can't say hold your breath; devs probably don't think it's worth the effort.

 

 

Edited July 1, 2023 by ArchonWing.9480

[Ashen.2907]

1 hour ago, ArchonWing.9480 said:

they could make much more cooler maps since they no longer have to balance for people not having mounts

I sincerely hope not.

[Witch Engine.2305]

13 minutes ago, ArchonWing.9480 said:

Yea but who cares about having 6 degrees of movement when all I want is to go up a moderately high ledge or two?
 

People do care. Many people stopped using the Bunny once they got the Skyscale because it's so much better. Using the Bunny is great, it's fun but often times you have to find the ledge you can reach, then jump to another ledge that might be going in a different direction but it's the only ledge you can reach so that's that. Not to mention many zones and areas have mobs you have to deal with while doing this. Meanwhile a person on the Skyscale can just say, nah I'll just fly there. I'll fly very high, wall jump, fly higher to the right avoiding all the mobs and then bam I'm home free.

Next patch you can do all this while on foot, mounting the skyscale even while in combat overshadowing the Bunny even more. I'm trying to think of a time where I got off the skyscale because the Bunny is better. Not saying that this doesn't exist, saying that those opportunities are getting smaller as the skyscale is getting buffed.

Edited July 1, 2023 by Witch Engine.2305

[ArchonWing.9480]

9 minutes ago, Witch Engine.2305 said:

People do care. Many people stopped using the Bunny once they got the Skyscale because it's so much better.

Fair enough, let's change it to I don't care. (So that I still have a dedicated bunny hotkey)

I just don't really have those issues with the bunny.

One example is that vista in Rata Sum for the daily. If I come in far, I'll be using the Skyscale but if I'm too close, the bunny's faster.

I mean sure maybe most won't care about such a simple task but it does affect me enough.

[yourexcellency.1458]

4 hours ago, Dibit.6259 said:

 If they made it free then a lot of people who put time and effort in getting the original skyscale will be in an uproar. Implanting the bonus feature for if you have both masteries is their way of trying to soften the blow on those who already have skyscale. I don't have a issue with their being an "easier" to get skyscale but I would personally find it insulting if it was free. Where would the sense of achievement be? 

How does making it easier for others make your achievement of getting it while it was more difficult any less? They've already made getting the skyscale easier from when it launched. I finished map comp the 1st time while we still had to unlock all of the poi and vista's in wvw. They made that easier too. It doesn't take away what I did. Really the problem here is people want to use the skyscale as a flex. It shouldn't be a flex though because it delivers so much utility. Anet could fix this by having cool skyscale skins locked behind achievements. Do an easy quest to unlock the basic skin and use of the mount, you have to earn the majority of the skills and cool skins. The problem with that is they want to sell the coolest skins in the gem store.

[Dante.1508]

19 hours ago, Witch Engine.2305 said:

You get a free skyscale, I get a free skyscale, unlesss you already have a skyscale of course, but you gotta ask that if we are now in a world where everyone gets a free or more realistically, easy access to the skyscale for whatever the price of the DLC is, then what about the bunny mount? Who will want to use this after getting a skyscale?

That bunny mount is practically obsolete as it is, is there any plan to update this to make it more relevant or will it just remain the way it is?

As i said in another thread, i'm glad they are changing that obnoxious grind for the Skyscale.. To this day i hated it. I did not feel like i passed some goal.. It was toxic, i'm glad new people do not have to wade through that mess..

Its a mount.. for Anet to make money off, having people avoid doing it was limiting them funds.

[Chyro.1462]

I'm curious if the two masteries thing will be just tied to the expansion, or to actually doing the whole skyscale unlock within that expansion.

So like if you want to have the double-mastery bonus, if you have to do just one skyscale unlock collection and then just level the masteries in both expansions (so unlocking Skyscale in either would unlock both mastery tracks). Or if you're required to do both skyscale unlocks in full to also get both mastery tracks.

[Dibit.6259]

11 hours ago, yourexcellency.1458 said:

How does making it easier for others make your achievement of getting it while it was more difficult any less? They've already made getting the skyscale easier from when it launched. I finished map comp the 1st time while we still had to unlock all of the poi and vista's in wvw. They made that easier too. It doesn't take away what I did. Really the problem here is people want to use the skyscale as a flex. It shouldn't be a flex though because it delivers so much utility. Anet could fix this by having cool skyscale skins locked behind achievements. Do an easy quest to unlock the basic skin and use of the mount, you have to earn the majority of the skills and cool skins. The problem with that is they want to sell the coolest skins in the gem store.

I mean, shouldn't it be a flex because it delivers said utility? and the effort which it took to get said utility? Take legendries for example, they take so much time, investment and effort to get that people then walk around with them everywhere to showcase their efforts, some may find this distasteful but why shouldn't they be proud of what their efforts achieve? "How does making it easier for others make your achievement of getting it while it was more difficult any less?" via this logic shouldn't they then be offering free or easier to get legendries? But then would they be considered legendries anymore considering everyone and their mum can now own them for little to no effort? This game is all about getting rewarded for your efforts. The more you accomplish the more you receive. Skyscale was never that hard to achieve, just long winded, and they only made the original collection easier by reducing time gates and adding a item that could bypass some of the jumping puzzles/world bosses for a gd/material fee. Also later the added bonus of being about to get map materials with doing the return to achievements. You still had to do most of the collection, these just made it quicker not easier.

As some find it hard to believe up until this new expansion nothing was cut off from not using skyscale, other mounts of masteries worked just fine (remember doing Hot with just raptor when I first started and only got the other mounts when I started doing POF) With the new expansion they said that it would focus on using flying mounts more therefore I understand why they have made an alternative path in order to obtain skyscale for those who do not want to do the original collection. My post was just stating that if they just give skyscale away for free then some people will feel like their efforts and achievements were wasted, also why I pointed out that they've added additional bonus's if you have both sets.

My personal stance is that I don't mind there being an easier option, I just don't want it to be straight up free. 

Edited July 1, 2023 by Dibit.6259
typos

[Dibit.6259]

10 minutes ago, Chyro.1462 said:

I'm curious if the two masteries thing will be just tied to the expansion, or to actually doing the whole skyscale unlock within that expansion.

So like if you want to have the double-mastery bonus, if you have to do just one skyscale unlock collection and then just level the masteries in both expansions (so unlocking Skyscale in either would unlock both mastery tracks). Or if you're required to do both skyscale unlocks in full to also get both mastery tracks.

Interesting point, I suppose it depends on who anet prefer to cater for in that situation.

[Passerbye.6291]

17 minutes ago, Chyro.1462 said:

I'm curious if the two masteries thing will be just tied to the expansion, or to actually doing the whole skyscale unlock within that expansion.

So like if you want to have the double-mastery bonus, if you have to do just one skyscale unlock collection and then just level the masteries in both expansions (so unlocking Skyscale in either would unlock both mastery tracks). Or if you're required to do both skyscale unlocks in full to also get both mastery tracks.

I'm curious about this too but I doubt they'd make you do both collections as from this thread you can already see that people would grab their pitchforks like they did with the siege turtle. This game's playerbase has 0 patience for anything that requires any amount of effort.  

I especially like how people keep calling skyscale collection tedious and meaningless when it is literally about raising your own skyscale. And yes, it is meant to be somewhat time consuming. It baffles me that something you can get in 7-10 days with casual farming with no RNG involved is considered a tedious grind these days, especially considering it is a one time thing that unlocks it for your entire account. 

A lot of people want instant gratification with no effort put in and then these people often quit the game 3 days later because there is little left to do. This is the same line of argument people who refuse to do raids/strikes/fractals but still want everything those contents have to offer present. While some might argue that the effort required for any given reward is arbitrary, one must remember that everything in a game, at a fundamental level is arbitrary. 

There is a good balance between things being achievable and all around too easy. Skyscale or any other reward that normally takes effort becoming a snoozefest or a hand out diminishes its value exactly because of the lack of effort put in. Anything you gain for free will feel like a given or a baseline. Whereas now, the game has you first running around with, previously, no mount and now raptor only, no gliding, then you gain those things, level them up and gradually make them even better, suddenly vistas are a lot easier to reach with springer, then, once you decide it, you go for skyscale, and at the end of a reasonable grind (1 week of casual farming is not the end of the world and people who go "I spent 7 years to get skyscale and still don't have it, I quit!" are objectively in need of professional help) you unlock and then train it, finally making exploration an entirely different experience. It is exactly due to this gradual process that you get to appreciate skyscale the way it is. If the game slaps you with a flying mount with no limits from the get go, all of this will be diminished.

Edited July 1, 2023 by Passerbye.6291

[GetFoxxed.9478]

Not everyone plays games for some mystical "Sense of achievement". Some just wanna have fun after long day in difficult and effort-consuming job, annoying day at uni, or whatever else.

[Witch Engine.2305]

Quote

23 minutes ago, GetFoxxed.9478 said:

Not everyone plays games for some mystical "Sense of achievement". Some just wanna have fun after long day in difficult and effort-consuming job, annoying day at uni, or whatever else.

 

I'd argue most people that play MMOs want a sense of achievement, I bet many players like the feeling they accomplished a task that once seemed impossible. This doesn't mean you can't have fun after a long day of work, I don't know why it can't be both.

Edited July 1, 2023 by Witch Engine.2305

[GetFoxxed.9478]

7 minutes ago, Witch Engine.2305 said:

I'd argue most people that play MMOs want a sense of achievement, I bet many players like the feeling they accomplished a task that once seemed impossible. This doesn't mean you can't have fun after a long day of work, I don't know why it can't be both.

Then you are free to do the skyscale collection the old way! People taking a helicopter ride at top of a mountain don't take away sense of achievement from people who climbed on it all by themselves.

[Derktarlms.6213]

All to take away value from pof and do less work, but minimal to obtain the other abilities you have to take the path of taking care of the skyscale

[Geronmy.3298]

As someone that did the obnoxious grind for it in 3 days, i am glad that is being given out as a baseline for people that are both new or felt like it was too big of a task for them.

The original way is not an achievement of any sort other than how much torture you can endure for a mount. Is nothing else than farming, doing jumping puzzles/paying to skip them and weird timegates. There was nothing inherently hard about it.

If you still do it the old way    you'll get rewarded with new abilities, so your effort can still be shown with them. Let new players enjoy things.

 

Also let them buy skins for the coolest mount i guess that might be a point cough cough

[Derktarlms.6213]

Why didn't they copy the fallen dragon and place a skyscale at each point where they have to use it? no because it's a lot of work

[GetFoxxed.9478]

7 minutes ago, Derktarlms.6213 said:

Why didn't they copy the fallen dragon and place a skyscale at each point where they have to use it? no because it's a lot of work

Because it's pointless and limiting when they can just give people a mount and forget it.

And probably make some money from skyscale gemstore skins after that.