Theory: Condi Druid changes were made to justify bigger nerfs later

[Mell.4873]

On 7/11/2023 at 5:07 PM, Dante.1508 said:

Obviously never played at release...

When Warrior was king....? 

Druid was best/only Healer in the game post HoT. 

Soulbeast was really strong post PoF especially when exposed damage increase was like 50%. 

Untamed with Fervent Force was able to solo Ice Brood Saga Strikes.

Seems like they like Ranger to me. 

[Dante.1508]

On 7/13/2023 at 10:22 AM, Mell.4873 said:

When Warrior was king....? 

Druid was best/only Healer in the game post HoT. 

Soulbeast was really strong post PoF especially when exposed damage increase was like 50%. 

Untamed with Fervent Force was able to solo Ice Brood Saga Strikes.

Seems like they like Ranger to me. 

That was a long long time after release.. Do you not remember when rangers were nerfed into the ground due to it being a favorite of botters..

Also the literal nerfed Spirits skills to this day are useless.

[Mell.4873]

3 hours ago, Dante.1508 said:

That was a long long time after release.. Do you not remember when rangers were nerfed into the ground due to it being a favorite of botters..

Also the literal nerfed Spirits skills to this day are useless.

Meh what nerf?

Spirits where fine before last update and started to make there way into end game content. 

Edited July 15, 2023 by Mell.4873

[AlexndrTheGreat.8310]

“Never ascribe to malice that which is adequately explained by incompetence”
 

I feel like it’s less that Anet made Condi Druid very strong intentionally so that they’d have an excuse to hard nerf it later, but rather that they have been very bad about the initial balance of changes they push through. There are many examples of numbers in this patch (Druid Alac duration, Deadeye applying 100% quickness without boon duration, Bladesworn alac duration, Scourge Alac duration) which show that the boon changes had a very bad execution, numbers across the board are either significantly higher or lower than what they should have been.

[kiwituatara.6053]

On 7/15/2023 at 12:46 PM, Dante.1508 said:

That was a long long time after release.. Do you not remember when rangers were nerfed into the ground due to it being a favorite of botters..

Also the literal nerfed Spirits skills to this day are useless.

That was so long ago tho. Yeah I rmber rangers in vanilla used to get nerfed to the ground all the time, but after HoT we’ve been receiving mostly love from the devs. Even if they are sometimes executed in the most janky/clumsy ways, the devs are definitely trying.

[Dante.1508]

3 hours ago, kiwituatara.6053 said:

That was so long ago tho. Yeah I rmber rangers in vanilla used to get nerfed to the ground all the time, but after HoT we’ve been receiving mostly love from the devs. Even if they are sometimes executed in the most janky/clumsy ways, the devs are definitely trying.

Rangers had it tough for a long time.. The stuff @Mell.4873 is speaking about is still relatively new, yeah spirits got hammered again not long ago.. Many older players haven't forgotten those years..

Edited July 17, 2023 by Dante.1508

[kiwituatara.6053]

2 hours ago, Dante.1508 said:

Rangers had it tough for a long time.. The stuff @Mell.4873 is speaking about is still relatively new, yeah spirits got hammered again not long ago.. Many older players haven't forgotten those years..

Yeah, I think the changes had good intentions though. I haven't touched pve in a long time but spirits were boring to play right? Takes up slots while generating passive buffs.

[Dante.1508]

20 hours ago, kiwituatara.6053 said:

Yeah, I think the changes had good intentions though. I haven't touched pve in a long time but spirits were boring to play right? Takes up slots while generating passive buffs.

No as a trapper build i liked using spirits.. the flame one was excellent but now spirits are useless. They took away their damage.

[Eekasqueak.7850]

Every class forum thinks a net hates their class. 

[Levetty.1279]

On 7/17/2023 at 1:03 PM, kiwituatara.6053 said:

Yeah, I think the changes had good intentions though. I haven't touched pve in a long time but spirits were boring to play right? Takes up slots while generating passive buffs.

Yeah old spirits were unusable everywhere except alac gen in certain PvE fights where you don't move around a lot. Mechanically new spirits are much better and actually usable in all modes, some of them just need buffs on some of their effects and an increase in boon duration on pretty much all of them..

[kiwituatara.6053]

On 7/19/2023 at 12:12 AM, Levetty.1279 said:

Yeah old spirits were unusable everywhere except alac gen in certain PvE fights where you don't move around a lot. Mechanically new spirits are much better and actually usable in all modes, some of them just need buffs on some of their effects and an increase in boon duration on pretty much all of them..

In WvW as well? I'm always open to new builds but I haven't really played around with them in WvW.

Actually, I just read through the Spirit skills again. They do seem extremely underwhelming even in PvE. The idea of active gameplay is great, but I don't see how they would work right now?

[FShoppe.6572]

On 7/7/2023 at 5:32 AM, Seventh Ranger.3968 said:

because we all know how much Anet hates Ranger, and in particular Druid. 

LOL. If you think ANet hates' ranger go try to play Warrior in any game mode outside PvE. I literally dare you.

[Levetty.1279]

2 hours ago, kiwituatara.6053 said:

In WvW as well? I'm always open to new builds but I haven't really played around with them in WvW.

Actually, I just read through the Spirit skills again. They do seem extremely underwhelming even in PvE. The idea of active gameplay is great, but I don't see how they would work right now?

AOE boons, condi cleanse, heal, revives, aegis, damage. They are pretty decent.

[Dante.1508]

On 7/18/2023 at 7:15 PM, Eekasqueak.7850 said:

Every class forum thinks a net hates their class. 

Not Engi or Guardian..

[Eekasqueak.7850]

Just now, Dante.1508 said:

Not Engi or Guardian..

Nah I see Engis say it sometimes too, and even guardians after the tome rework. 

[Beddo.1907]

35 minutes ago, Dante.1508 said:

Not Engi or Guardian..

Took me ~30s to find "anet hates..." for both of them.

[Dante.1508]

On 7/21/2023 at 10:32 AM, Beddo.1907 said:

Took me ~30s to find "anet hates..." for both of them.

Yes but does anyone take them seriously.. I mean try writing a thread on how weak firebrand is and look at all the 🤣

[Mic.1897]

On 7/22/2023 at 12:33 AM, Dante.1508 said:

Yes but does anyone take them seriously.. 🤣

I don't think anyone takes any of these threads seriously lol it's a video game 

[Mauti.3520]

On 7/19/2023 at 5:33 PM, kiwituatara.6053 said:

In WvW as well? I'm always open to new builds but I haven't really played around with them in WvW.

Actually, I just read through the Spirit skills again. They do seem extremely underwhelming even in PvE. The idea of active gameplay is great, but I don't see how they would work right now?

The Frost Spirit is an option for WvW Heal Druid as it's a convenient AoE Cleanse for 3 conditions for 5 players that isn't gated behind Celestial Avatar. A second time if you run Nature's Vengeance and happen to stay in the same spot 3 seconds later. For roaming I don't know.

For PvE they see more use to provide boons rather than for their active effects. The damage+daze on Storm Spirit is very nice though and fits particularly well into a Quickness Untamed. Water Spirit a nice AoE Heal with some Vigour attached and the Stone one for it's Aegis. Sun Spirit is convenient Might+Burn.
lso the Nature Spirit is a glorious and convenient big rez utility now that unlike Glyph of the Stars isn't gated behind Druid.

[voltaicbore.8012]

As much as I know ranger is not allowed to have nice things, OP 's idea implies that a certain amount of deep planning went into this. Now that is the real conspiracy theory there, not the nerfs. Nerfs, we've lived with for a long time. But deep, cunning planning about the future of this class? Nah.