Why Mace over Shield?

[Matoro.9708]

This will be a bit of a rant, but I've wanted to get it off my chest for a long time now, so I'll start by harping on the thematics: we last got hammer, and between that, sword (now having lost its signature move, the roll, F) greatsword, and dagger, I can't imagine having another close range weapon be all that exciting. Moreover, I guess the ranger isn't quite done smashing stuff yet? Yay... Shield would be perfect as a 'defender of nature' vibe. As it stands, the greatsword is the best and basically only defensive close range tool the ranger has. I see this as a huge missed opportunity, and frankly, I'm not buying the expansion for this reason especially since sword can no longer evade like it used to. Granted, they could add it later, and it would be even better with more main hand options, but I definitely think it should come sooner rather than later. Especially if they want my money, lol.

Mechanically speaking, all of the off hand weapon choices for ranger are either offensive or boon related. They all generally pair as a ranged tool too. There is obvious room to create cool defender of nature themed close range shield skills. 

Am I missing something? Are they just rolling dice and seeing what to do next? I don't understand where the intuition is. 

[Mell.4873]

It's probably going to be the reverse of Axe so Melee for main-hand and Ranged for off-hand. 

Over all it will probably be very stationary like other maces in the game. It will probably have a aoe pull on off-hand since Ranger doesn't have any. 

Let's just wait and see, I mean Mesmer Greatsword doesn't follow any set preset (no 4 block for example). 

[Mic.1897]

Main and off Maces have 5 skills

Shield would only have 2

[Levetty.1279]

I don't understand where this weird idea that maces can't be defensive came from when only one mace in the game currently isn't defensive.

[InsaneQR.7412]

I gue s its because rangers lack mainhand weapons and also a proper cleave weapon. If ranger mace is similar to Rev mace i think it will definetly find a niche for the class. Mace OH then being a defensive weapon or more cc heavy would also fill a gap.

[Beddo.1907]

Mace can be a defensive weapon, as much as a shield can be an offensive weapon if you are creative enough.

[Batalix.2873]

The only way I can think of offhand mace being fun on ranger is if it works as a flail, but given design's recent track record I am betting it will be pretty unimaginative.

I too am in the camp that Ranger shield or focus would have been aligned much more with its identity. But in general I think the devs' overarching philosophy with these weapons are in some sort of delusional stupid-bubble. Necro OH sword but not shield? No Rev OH focus to compliment scepter? No Thief OH weapon to compliment axe? Pistol and not rifle or longbow on Ele? And no WH on Guardian but instead *two* pistols? Even Engi would rather have axe/torch than yet another ranged weapon.

The profundity of how dumb, dumb these weapon choices are is why I am not buying SotO and taking an indefinite leave from the game. They do not communicate anything but cheap, empty spectacle to me and add precisely nothing to the game that would compel me to continue investing in the profession system.

[Arheundel.6451]

10 hours ago, Beddo.1907 said:

Mace can be a defensive weapon, as much as a shield can be an offensive weapon if you are creative enough.

Ranger elite weapons don't have a great track record....actually they are some of the worst elite weapons in the game. Staff, dagger mh and hammer are awful compares to say shield, shortbow and greatsword on revenant or greatsword, torch and pistol on necro. 

You'd have to be a pretty optimistic and disillusioned individual to even think that mace/mace will be anything but another subpar option for rangers.....defensive? Ranged aoe?....naahh...nothing of that sort. 

This is what mace/mace will look like on ranger:

1) Plain mace AA with 1 stack of bleeding 

2) Grant 1s protection if hit enemy

3) Smash ground for 2 stacks bleeding

4) 2s cast animation knock down

5) Root ranger, gives 1 stack aegis around you

We all know that I won't be that much off the mark, it has been almost 10 years since HoT and not once I have seen the ranger community building anything staple around an elite weapon. It has always been GS, longbow and axe since the beginning of time.

The ranger community hasn't got a main dev playing the class and giving crazy idea during balance and design discussions. There is nobody vouching for rangers to add skills that do 10 things at the same time on a 5-10s CD to a new elite weapon. The truth is everybody including you...know that mace/mace will be kitten/average as every ranger elite weapon up to now

[Beddo.1907]

2 hours ago, Arheundel.6451 said:

You'd have to be a pretty optimistic and disillusioned individual to even think that mace/mace will be anything but another subpar option for rangers.....defensive? Ranged aoe?....naahh...nothing of that sort. 

So I should be depressed and overly negative? Got it.

2 hours ago, Arheundel.6451 said:

it has been almost 10 years since HoT and not once I have seen the ranger community building anything staple around an elite weapon.

Staff: WvW support Druid, Condi roamer Druid
Dagger: Condi DPS Soulbeast, Hybrid DPS Soulbeast
Hammer: Power DPS Untamed
 

[Arheundel.6451]

1 hour ago, Beddo.1907 said:

So I should be depressed and overly negative? Got it.

Staff: WvW support Druid, Condi roamer Druid
Dagger: Condi DPS Soulbeast, Hybrid DPS Soulbeast
Hammer: Power DPS Untamed
 

Staff : you are tripping ..not even in T5 wvw you see requested support druids lol - like 40% zerg is scrappers, 30% scourge/reaper/harbringer, 20% firebarnd and 10% tempest, like..only a madman would drop any of the builds I have mentioned for a druid in a zerg....you're tripping bad to think that. No aoe stability, no damage pressure...weak to CC...and people can have everything by using a scrapper, because it's broken OP alongside harbinger giving out all boons like candies and firebrand covering those little weakness left, then add tempest for perma aura spam and heal.....where does druid even fits into this?

Dagger...ok PvE and Open world...everything goes there...even playing naked with a mace would bring results

Hammer....again PvE open world

So let me correct myself...subpar options outside PvE and fringe gameplay in the middle of nowhere like staff condi druid...I hate to be that guy but...somebody must wake you up to reality :  there are 0...zero....I have said ZEEERROOOOOO players using any of the builds you mention

People are not being negative for the sake of it...it's because there is nothing even to suggest anything different could happen, ranger has been the same mediocre duellist with mediocre dmg that dies almost instantly to any +1 since 2013. With the occasional flare-up builds ...which then get nerfed in the space of a few months

Edited July 9, 2023 by Arheundel.6451

[Firebird Gomer.9563]

39 minutes ago, Arheundel.6451 said:

Ranger has been the same mediocre duellist with mediocre dmg that dies almost instantly to any +1 since 2013. With the occasional flare-up builds ...which then get nerfed in the space of a few months

Yep Agree's. The amount of times you get a good build its like Anet go, Oh No you cant have that... You are the wrong class, that was meant for Guardians or Necros or Ele's.

 

Rangers shouldn't be called Rangers.... They should be called the nerf class.... And the other reason they shouldn't be called rangers is because they are forced into 300 to stack with everyone else to gain or provide buffs. Why bother having a longbow....

[Matoro.9708]

16 hours ago, Arheundel.6451 said:

Ranger elite weapons don't have a great track record....actually they are some of the worst elite weapons in the game. Staff, dagger mh and hammer are awful compares to say shield, shortbow and greatsword on revenant or greatsword, torch and pistol on necro. 

You'd have to be a pretty optimistic and disillusioned individual to even think that mace/mace will be anything but another subpar option for rangers.....defensive? Ranged aoe?....naahh...nothing of that sort. 

This is what mace/mace will look like on ranger:

1) Plain mace AA with 1 stack of bleeding 

2) Grant 1s protection if hit enemy

3) Smash ground for 2 stacks bleeding

4) 2s cast animation knock down

5) Root ranger, gives 1 stack aegis around you

We all know that I won't be that much off the mark, it has been almost 10 years since HoT and not once I have seen the ranger community building anything staple around an elite weapon. It has always been GS, longbow and axe since the beginning of time.

The ranger community hasn't got a main dev playing the class and giving crazy idea during balance and design discussions. There is nobody vouching for rangers to add skills that do 10 things at the same time on a 5-10s CD to a new elite weapon. The truth is everybody including you...know that mace/mace will be kitten/average as every ranger elite weapon up to now

I'm glad you understand my fears. A ranger with the old sword and a shield off hand would be extremely defensive. I definitely think that the original plan for GW2 professions having unique uses for the same weapon has gone out the window - where one profession might use it as dps, for the ranger it was good for mobility and defense, and this tied into the core theme of the class. Now it feels to me like the balance team is making all weapons do basically the same thing no matter the class, removing both unique gameplay and roleplay at the same time. I understand the logical appeal of consistency... but that doesn't always equal fun. 

On 7/8/2023 at 1:06 AM, Mic.1897 said:

Main and off Maces have 5 skills

Shield would only have 2

I should like more of something I don't want than less of what I do?

[Mic.1897]

To be fair, they don't work just for your personal fantasy

[anduriell.6280]

Let me share a wild guess: mace will probably be based in the warriors CC based weapon. I don't understand why because with the expansion we will get hammer which should be a good weapon for that. 

I agree with the OP  as double shield ranger for full turtle deffense would have been so breathtaking and brave. 

Before anybody says anything like "that's absurd" think the ranger still has the pets to do some dps. 

[Gotejjeken.1267]

18 hours ago, Arheundel.6451 said:

So let me correct myself...subpar options outside PvE and fringe gameplay in the middle of nowhere like staff condi druid...I hate to be that guy but...somebody must wake you up to reality :  there are 0...zero....I have said ZEEERROOOOOO players using any of the builds you mention

Zero you say...

 

[Puffer Fish.1796]

On 7/9/2023 at 7:12 AM, Arheundel.6451 said:

[...]

Dagger...ok PvE and Open world...everything goes there...even playing naked with a mace would bring results

Hammer....again PvE open world

So let me correct myself...subpar options outside PvE and fringe gameplay in the middle of nowhere [...]

So, if I'm understanding correctly, the vast majority of actual story content in the game (which takes many hours to complete), isn't good enough to qualify for you because you've already finished all of it?

Just because it's not how you personally play, and just because metabattle says it's "good but not THE meta", doesn't mean it's a nonviable play style. 
I just returned after 5 years away, and I rather like playing axe/dagger or sword/dagger ranger now whereas I hated it in the past. I plan on maining Untamed once I unlock it.

If you're this mad about having fun, maybe take a break for a few months and come back. Sometimes perspective lets you see that all builds are fine for certain situations.