End game pve is incredibly gatekept and lacks player population

[Krzysztof.5973]

17 hours ago, SoftFootpaws.9134 said:

i think this is exadurating quite a bit.

 

there's a ceiling to everything in this game and alot of players who think they're very good at the game simply aren't. for example i see alot of fractal god and dancing with demons players who do really good damage but have a poor grasp on fractal mechanics, and play very selfishly, so are overall a burden to the fractal group. likewise is see players with 10k+ufe who don't seem to understand how the challenge mote works and i have to explain it to them with like 1k.

 

for example, to this day i still have to explain to very experienced groups that ai's tornado reflects projectiles.

 

players in this thread are doing something called generalising, which is acting like all people are equal and can be judged by something like an arbitrary number, even though in reality those numbers can be gained by alot of dishonest methods. let's be clear, you can get carried hard in this game, even by a single player, outside of pvp, and as a result any experienced player has known since the game introduced achievement points that all arbitrary numbers are mostly useless.

 

with the current damage numbers its possible for even a single player to carry the old cms almost solo (someone even soloed cm100).

 

its very similar to the real world in this regard, for example how many assume that a person with several degrees and a high-paying job actually knows what they're doing even though in reality they have no clue and someone else does everything for them. let me ask a question; how many diamond legend players in wvw do you think could actually kill you 60%+ of the time in 1v1, and weren't just zerglings who karma trained?

 

but it takes years of playing 40+hours a week to get that rank, they must be insanely skilled! i mean, that's how it works, right?

 

there's also another issue: veteran players are tired and turn to playstyles and mannerisms that they really shouldn't out of exhaustion. sometimes its even a net negative to take them onto the group even though they can be nearly perfect when at their best, because as their best gets better over the years their worst also gets worse due to unavoidable burnout. this is the main reason i'd take someone with 520 over 70k.

Have you played in a group with everybody at 50k+ UFE and how efficient in min/maxing they are? Mind sharing your UFE? 😏

[Kuma.1503]

This game's community makes things harder on themselves than it needs to be. 

The endgame of GW2 is NOT that hard. DPS checks are extremely lenient, if not non-existant. Most wipes are not due to a lack of DPS, but due to inexperienced players tunneling on their rotation and failing mechanics. 

A lot of DPS loss across the raid occurs, not because the supports don't have the optimal level of Boon Duration that just lets them eek out 100% uptime while sqeezing out as much DPS as possible. 

But because the quickness/alac supports built too conservative on the boon duration and are dropping uptime left and right due to totally expected mistakes. Sometimes it's good to let yourself overcap on boon duration, so you have a buffer in case things don't go as expected. 

Or the DPS build full glass, are trying to jump right in with a difficult rotation, and are constantly going downstate or dying. 

 

In short. We enforce Snowcrows / Speed run meta on newbies to our detriment. You don't need to deal 36k+ DPS on every person to clear raids, fractals, or strikes. This game is tuned for a time before the mass powercreep when people did a fraction of that number. 

Supports should allow themselves more boon duration in their gear while they're learning. 

DPS shouldn't feel bad about using a simplified rotation as they are learning. And they shouldn't feel disuaded from running tankier stats like Marauder, Dragon, Celestial, or Trailblazer. (The latter two are not reccomended for raids due to toughness aggro). 

 

For Example. A player new to weaver should not hop in right away on Power Weaver. Full Zerker stats. 11k HP. You are paper on that build and will drop dead to random trash mob auto attacks. You are expected to play on a knife's edge and be on point with your dodges or you will become the epitome of the ele downstate meme. 

Instead, they should consider running something beefier. Perhaps a set of Dire/Trailblazer gear with balthazar runes. In T4 fractals, this build can still burst very good numbers (even top DPS on trash pulls), but is MUCH safer to play and has a simplified rotation that mostly sticks to fire and earth. A new player would have a much easier time learning the game on these kinds of builds.  (You can swap out for a mix of Viper/Carrion in raids. Just try to hit 100% burn durration). 

I genuinely believe if people would stop enforcing speedrun strats on newbies, they would have MUCH cleaner runs. Let people ease into that as they gain more experience. Full glass or minimal boon duration builds should be used only once someone is familiar and comfortable with both the fight and their class. 

 

Like most rules, there are exceptions. For the truly difficult content like CM, or achievement runs. The above does not necessarily apply. 

 

Edited August 5, 2023 by Kuma.1503

[Cyninja.2954]

This discussion is as old as dungeons, so pretty much as old as the game its self.

For dungeons it was: should I run berserker or soldier? (and definitely not necro or ranger, dead classes in vanilla basically)

The majority of content is indeed not that hard. Unfortunately, the majority of player are also just not that good.

In regards to UFE, KP or w/e I stick to the opinion: everyone gets to make their own group and rules. 

The entire back and forth about how good players are at which amount of KP is pointless. Yes, on average one can expect a player with more KP to have more experience but there are exceptions to the rule.

The amount of KP asked for, to me, was always rather an indicator of what I might expect in said group. Specifically in fractals this might be at higher UCE/UFE/KP: no healer, many skips, decent to very decent dps, proper cc, portals and likely a lower tolerance for mistakes (but trust me, the most toxic groups are usally the mid range ones where players think they are hotshots while just being decent). I myself join according to what I am looking for at certain a specific time (or used to, thank god I don't LFG a lot for instanced content atm).

But here is the kicker: ALL OF THIS DOESN'T MATTER. 

The largest deciding factor for endgame access is the social structures and people/players you know. As it should be in a MMO.

So every time I read about how gate kept PvE is due to a fraction of it, the LFG side, being organized a certain way and how it needs fixing I immediately think: well you're already doing it wrong. Which does not fill me with confidence in that persons abilities, so I add a few KP on top 🤷‍♂️

Edited August 5, 2023 by Cyninja.2954

[Kuma.1503]

2 hours ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

This discussion is as old as dungeons, so pretty much as old as the game its self.

For dungeons it was: should I run berserker or soldier? (and definitely not necro or ranger, dead classes in vanilla basically)

 

See that's the funny thing. 

With smart gearing, you can gain a good deal of extra bulk while sacrificing very little in actual DPS. Dropping Zerker for Soldiers is overkill. Here is one example build to illustrate. 

For the sake of demonstartion, lets say the player is fully geared out. Full ascended and infusions. (Obviously if you're still in exotics, getting the stats exact doesn't matter)

The build is power sword Weaver. 

Instead of running the Snowcrows reccomended gearset. This is what I run:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PGiAwilZwoYSsHmJO6KfvLA-zRRYDhEJGNU3lgtHExYD05kCjlIOjgKA-e

Full marauder with 2 pieces of Valkyrie. 2 precision infusions allows you to hit exactly 100% crit chance with fury for a perfect crit cap. This is done without the need to maintain 100% weakness uptime on the target as well. 

It's much bulkier with 23k hp. This affords significantly more leniency to the player, and the DPS loss is not significantly felt. You can still top DPS charts even in a competent group. 

Since you no longer rely on weakness uptime to keep up your crit chance, your target swapping also improved. 

 

For utilities, dropping one DPS utility for on demand stability or a stunbreak can also make things less painful. I like stone resonance because it's like having a procket firebrand to stab me through mechancis whenever I need it. You get 2 charges on a relatively short cooldown, which can allow you to power through annoying mechanics or random trash mob stunlocks (very common in dungeons and, to a lesser extent, fractals) without the need to dodge or lose uptime. 

 

These are the kind of adaptations a player can make to give themselves an easier time, without even being a hinderance to their group in the DPS department. Sure it doesn't provide the highest damage theoretically possible. But I guarantee, for the vast majority of players, it will provide more actual DPS due to less time spent dodging, getting stunlocked out of your rotation, losing crit chance to target swaps or random weakness dropping, or going downstate. 

Edited August 5, 2023 by Kuma.1503

[mikko.4013]

23 hours ago, IAmNotMatthew.1058 said:

Figured the guy with the "if you haven't been doing CMs nonstop you're not decent"  mindset would say that. No offense, just facts.

As I said, my point of view is that 10kUFE-20kUFE are usually decent parties.
By the way, I now have doubt about your thinking ability if you think 10kUFE means doing CMs nonstop... 10kUFE is just a proof that you completed about 250 single CMs. It doesn't say how long it took you to rack your 250 single CMs. It means, you could have racked your 10kUFE doing daily "old" CMs in less than 3 months... as well as in 2 years. So, no, 10kUFE is not having played CMs nonstop, your statement is not fact, just a sad attempt of argument, like the former posts that you wrote.

Regular CM players are used to playing full CMs +T4 on a daily basis, for less than 1 hour a day. But maybe 1 hour a day is too intense nonstop pace for you, which is of course your own right.

Keep in mind that asking for "high" UFEs doesn't mean asking for having played nonstop. It's just a way to enhance the chance of getting a skilled player. For instance, I often meet 50kUFE+ returning players, and their skills are far from being top notch.

Now, let's talk about what 520UFEs do represent : about less than 5 days of daily old CMs...

I had some respect for you, believing that you were talking and arguing about topics that you knew... but how could I take seriously take your opinion about 0-10-20-30kUFE while you could not apply to a 10kUFE LFG ?...

[IAmNotMatthew.1058]

34 minutes ago, mikko.4013 said:

As I said, my point of view is that 10kUFE-20kUFE are usually decent parties.
By the way, I now have doubt about your thinking ability if you think 10kUFE means doing CMs nonstop... 10kUFE is just a proof that you completed about 250 single CMs. It doesn't say how long it took you to rack your 250 single CMs. It means, you could have racked your 10kUFE doing daily "old" CMs in less than 3 months... as well as in 2 years. So, no, 10kUFE is not having played CMs nonstop, your statement is not fact, just a sad attempt of argument, like the former posts that you wrote.

Regular CM players are used to playing full CMs +T4 on a daily basis, for less than 1 hour a day. But maybe 1 hour a day is too intense nonstop pace for you, which is of course your own right.

Keep in mind that asking for "high" UFEs doesn't mean asking for having played nonstop. It's just a way to enhance the chance of getting a skilled player. For instance, I often meet 50kUFE+ returning players, and their skills are far from being top notch.

Now, let's talk about what 520UFEs do represent : about less than 5 days of daily old CMs...

I had some respect for you, believing that you were talking and arguing about topics that you knew... but how could I take seriously take your opinion about 0-10-20-30kUFE while you could not apply to a 10kUFE LFG ?...

I use playing non stop as a way to showcase just how absolutely ridiculous your numbers are. Those numbers are with the current 4CMs. Would "85 days of Fractal CMs and you may be better than training" or "You aren't experienced, you haven't been doing CMs for 170 days striaght" sound better? 

But, how could I take someone seriously whose opinion is that doing Fractal CMs for 70 days straight is training category and spending 1/3rd of a year doing daily CMs is not even experienced?

[mikko.4013]

2 hours ago, IAmNotMatthew.1058 said:

I use playing non stop as a way to showcase just how absolutely ridiculous your numbers are

Still not tired ? These numbers are MY way to see things. It's an opinion, not a self-proclamated truth.

Secondly, you have no idea what the differences are, between a 10kUFE and a 30kUFE party. You know what they say ? Talk about things that you know. The same way I won't talk about raids, because I have close to zero experience in them.

Your treshold is 500 UFE ? All good for you.
Mine are 10-20-30kUFE. Feel free to compare when you are able to join on a regular basis, and I will be glad to hear some legit arguments from you.

2 hours ago, IAmNotMatthew.1058 said:

Those numbers are with the current 4CMs.

Nope, wrong again.These numbers are with 3 old CMs.
You get 40UFE for 1CM
10000 UFE / 40 = 250 single CMs for 10kUFE
You could do 3 "old" CMs a day, so :
250 / 3 = 83.3 days, let's say 84 days, meaning less than 3 months

It seems that not only are you clueless about what is the meaning behind UFE in fractal LFG, but either your maths and/or your knowledge are deficient as well.

3 hours ago, IAmNotMatthew.1058 said:

But, how could I take someone seriously whose opinion is that doing Fractal CMs for 70 days straight is training category and spending 1/3rd of a year doing daily CMs is not even experienced?

Well, feel free to not take seriously someone who actually experienced all kind of UFE LFGs, and trust yourself who have played in 0.5k LFGs at best ?
As I said, stack up your UFEs, try the LFGs, and see for yourself. But don't talk about things that you don't know.

[TheNurgle.4825]

Interesting to read. New players complain about gatekeeping and lack of population. Answers from some "experienced players" just confirm gatekeeping. Like create your own group in GW2 LFG tool (one of worst in any MMO I played over years), oh and you need commander tag for 300gold. Also should new players create groups in Training or Experienced?

GW2 instanced community is really small and it is not suprising. Fractals are nice example. New ppl try T1 and very few get to T2 with noone doing T3. T4 is done by ppl, but most of times you rush ahead skip stuff/mechanic since you can. New player see that noone is doing T1/2/3 so they get ascended gear and necessary AR and go right to T4 since they have no other option and they do not understand what is happening. So what they do? They do not do it since they had bad experience with it. Fault here is not with new players. Fault here is on devs and current endgame community. 

I think that having 4 tiers for fractals is useless removing two of them and rework AR would bring more ppl to fractals. Also fixing some "skip" or "rush/run" mechanic is necessary. Sadly this will never happen since a lot ppl have that boomer mentality which explain gatekeeping and lack of population.

Also new ppl see strikes and they think that difficulty is same or similar and it is not. Like IBS3 is like whatever now go to boneskinner and you have huge spike in diffuculty for new player and is reward better? Same with EoD strikes like AH, XJJ, KO are easy even for new player and after that you get HT. Do not forget about rewards from strikes and perspective of new players, it is not rewarding at all.

[Sobx.1758]

17 minutes ago, TheNurgle.4825 said:

Answers from some "experienced players" just confirm gatekeeping. Like create your own group

Anyone being able to make their own group and being informed about it is somehow "confirming gatekeeping"? Not sure how?

18 minutes ago, TheNurgle.4825 said:

Also should new players create groups in Training or Experienced?

Depends on those players and the groups they're creating. If they're new and want to practice then "training" sounds reasonable, doesn't it?

[Kuma.1503]

Making Agony Resist account-wide would be a HUGE improvement tbh. 

I feel like once someone has done the grind once. They understand what they're doing and they don't need to be gated on other classes they play. 

AR in it's current iteration is just an obnoxious gold/time sink. 

[TheNurgle.4825]

10 hours ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Anyone being able to make their own group and being informed about it is somehow "confirming gatekeeping"? Not sure how?

Depends on those players and the groups they're creating. If they're new and want to practice then "training" sounds reasonable, doesn't it?

You just proved it again. You "by accident" forget to quote me on needing commander tag for 300gold. So thatnk you for proving me right.🤣

[IAmNotMatthew.1058]

12 hours ago, mikko.4013 said:

Nope, wrong again.These numbers are with 3 old CMs.
You get 40UFE for 1CM
10000 UFE / 40 = 250 single CMs for 10kUFE
You could do 3 "old" CMs a day, so :
250 / 3 = 83.3 days, let's say 84 days, meaning less than 3 months

You don't need to explain to me how much UFE one gets from Fractals, I know it. Now... are you confused by the difference between those and these? Because I fail to notice how counting with 160UFE(what you get for 4CMs) would equal 83.3 days. 

[Sobx.1758]

5 hours ago, TheNurgle.4825 said:

You just proved it again. You "by accident" forget to quote me on needing commander tag for 300gold. So thatnk you for proving me right.🤣

I didn't forget to quote it, I just thought it goes without saying that the claim "you need commander tag to make a group in lfg" is completely false. Meanwhile you addressed absolutely nothing and apparently your plan is to keep repeating "you just proved it again!" to anyone, no matter what you quote. That doesn't really work though.

[Nephalem.8921]

On 8/5/2023 at 12:08 PM, Kuma.1503 said:

See that's the funny thing. 

With smart gearing, you can gain a good deal of extra bulk while sacrificing very little in actual DPS. Dropping Zerker for Soldiers is overkill. Here is one example build to illustrate. 

For the sake of demonstartion, lets say the player is fully geared out. Full ascended and infusions. (Obviously if you're still in exotics, getting the stats exact doesn't matter)

The build is power sword Weaver. 

Instead of running the Snowcrows reccomended gearset. This is what I run:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PGiAwilZwoYSsHmJO6KfvLA-zRRYDhEJGNU3lgtHExYD05kCjlIOjgKA-e

Full marauder with 2 pieces of Valkyrie. 2 precision infusions allows you to hit exactly 100% crit chance with fury for a perfect crit cap. This is done without the need to maintain 100% weakness uptime on the target as well. 

It's much bulkier with 23k hp. This affords significantly more leniency to the player, and the DPS loss is not significantly felt. You can still top DPS charts even in a competent group. 

Since you no longer rely on weakness uptime to keep up your crit chance, your target swapping also improved. 

 

For utilities, dropping one DPS utility for on demand stability or a stunbreak can also make things less painful. I like stone resonance because it's like having a procket firebrand to stab me through mechancis whenever I need it. You get 2 charges on a relatively short cooldown, which can allow you to power through annoying mechanics or random trash mob stunlocks (very common in dungeons and, to a lesser extent, fractals) without the need to dodge or lose uptime. 

 

These are the kind of adaptations a player can make to give themselves an easier time, without even being a hinderance to their group in the DPS department. Sure it doesn't provide the highest damage theoretically possible. But I guarantee, for the vast majority of players, it will provide more actual DPS due to less time spent dodging, getting stunlocked out of your rotation, losing crit chance to target swaps or random weakness dropping, or going downstate. 

The meta build does 14% more while you have no might and 12% more with might. You also dont take arcane missiles which means it is missing ~5-6k dps for 5k hp. You are basically trading dps for hp 1to1.

I have no clue what instanced content you are doing but most of it has barely any dmg pressure or has % based dmg like vg. Surviving only starts becoming an issue if you do content without a healer or well if you do content with pug healers which is the same as doing it without a healer anyways. Healer mains think pressing buttons is toxic and they are carrying the group or something.

The game is already very easy. No reason to make it even easier. Scourge loses even less for taking trailblazer btw and gets way more out of it than a power build swapping to marauder.

[Kuma.1503]

2 hours ago, Nephalem.8921 said:

The meta build does 14% more while you have no might and 12% more with might. You also dont take arcane missiles which means it is missing ~5-6k dps for 5k hp. You are basically trading dps for hp 1to1.

I have no clue what instanced content you are doing but most of it has barely any dmg pressure or has % based dmg like vg. Surviving only starts becoming an issue if you do content without a healer or well if you do content with pug healers which is the same as doing it without a healer anyways. Healer mains think pressing buttons is toxic and they are carrying the group or something.

The game is already very easy. No reason to make it even easier. Scourge loses even less for taking trailblazer btw and gets way more out of it than a power build swapping to marauder.

I do a lot of pug content. 

Since this is a thread about endgame being gatekept. I assumed it was a given that we're talking about pug groups. Most guilds have laxer expectations once they've grown familiar with you. 

When I used to run with a static I did run full glass because we had some cracked healers in our group. 

For content, I mostly do raids, fractal CMs, and the occasional strike CM.  

 

Arcane Missle is only sacrificed on fights where the stability trade-off is worth it. Like https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Legendary_Brazen_Gladiator

His daze every 5 seconds is a  bigger DPS loss than what you'd give up by taking arcane missles. Assuming you don't have a FB in your group to aegis/stab you through it and let you keep uptime. 

Edited August 6, 2023 by Kuma.1503

[TheNurgle.4825]

5 hours ago, Sobx.1758 said:

I didn't forget to quote it, I just thought it goes without saying that the claim "you need commander tag to make a group in lfg" is completely false. Meanwhile you addressed absolutely nothing and apparently your plan is to keep repeating "you just proved it again!" to anyone, no matter what you quote. That doesn't really work though.

If you have 2 groups and one is with tag and other without ppl never join group without tag. We all know it and you can spend time and check LFG tool so yea you actaully need commander tag to successfully create group. Imagine being new create group without tag and after 60-90 mins just give up since you do not get 10 ppl.

Your comment is like:

You can finish any group achievement by making group in LFG achievement section and in theory yes, but it never happen since noone even looking in that section same for WvW.

 

I also like when new ppl write on forum that game has gatekeeping and small endgame population everyone is like it is not true and give advice from veteran player perspective which is actually not helpful at all and do opposite.

What about fractals? I saw a lot new players just give up on them since most groups just rush it or skip some mechanics and new players sometimes stay at start of fractal and leave since noone help them.

[mikko.4013]

10 hours ago, IAmNotMatthew.1058 said:

You don't need to explain to me how much UFE one gets from Fractals, I know it. Now... are you confused by the difference between those and these? Because I fail to notice how counting with 160UFE(what you get for 4CMs) would equal 83.3 days. 

English is not my native language, as you noticed. At least, you can write something with sense, I'm impressed 🤣
Glad that you enjoyed my explanation 😘
By the way, counting 160UFE a day (4CMs) instead of 120UFE a day (3 old CMs), wouldn't it make even faster and easier ? Right right right ? 😇

I'm so proud of you : you didn't use whataboutism this time, you are making some progress.

And at least, you are now talking about things that you do know : English language, rather than UFE in Fractal LFG.

Edited August 6, 2023 by mikko.4013

[IAmNotMatthew.1058]

36 minutes ago, mikko.4013 said:

English is not my native language, as you noticed. At least, you can write something with sense, I'm impressed 🤣
Glad that you enjoyed my explanation 😘
By the way, counting 160UFE a day (4CMs) instead of 120UFE a day (3 old CMs), wouldn't it make even faster and easier ? Right right right ? 😇

I'm so proud of you : you didn't use whataboutism this time, you are making some progress.

Neither is mine, but, strangely, when you write one thing I don't consider it a different thing. I'm proud of you that you realize that 4CMs make it quicker than 3CMs. Atleast you see the difference now. 

38 minutes ago, mikko.4013 said:

And at least, you are now talking about things that you do know : English language, rather than UFE in Fractal LFG.

Well, I know about both, but, you should stick to talking about UFE, since you seem to know it better than English.

[mikko.4013]

7 minutes ago, IAmNotMatthew.1058 said:

Neither is mine, but, strangely, when you write one thing I don't consider it a different thing. I'm proud of you that you realize that 4CMs make it quicker than 3CMs. Atleast you see the difference now. 

See, in the end, you do agree with me 😘.

7 minutes ago, IAmNotMatthew.1058 said:

Well, I know about both, but, you should stick to talking about UFE, since you seem to know it better than English.

Looks like a nice denial from the 520UFE player that you are. So entertaining 😉.

And you know what they say... when someone is attacking you on the form rather than the substance, it shows their argumentation is pretty poor. Please forgive my English, as you do know, I'm far from being as good as you at writing English 😅

Edited August 6, 2023 by mikko.4013

[IAmNotMatthew.1058]

2 minutes ago, mikko.4013 said:

See, in the end, you do agree with me 😘.

Looks like a nice denial from the 520UFE player that you are. So entertaining 😉.

And you know what they say... when someone is attacking you on the form rather than the substance, it shows their argumentation is pretty poor. Please forgive my English, as you do know, I'm far from being as good as you at writing English 😅

Out of the 2 of us you are the one throwing UFE around to back your statements up, like having 70k UFE means you are right, while the other isn't. Other than "high UFE good, low UFE bad" you have no argument and always fall back on "but that's my opinion". Noone's here going on about how much LI or UFE they have, only you bring up other's UFE.

It's extremely entertaining seeing you constantly repeat "You have low UFE, you're wrong" over and over again while completely missing the point I'm making with how long doing 3/4 CMs each day it would take to reach your "decent" level by not reading what I'm writing to you. Only "my opinion", "high UFE good, low UFE bad" and "you have low UFE, you know nothing"

Your English is forgiven, considering all you pay attention to is UFE.

You went into trying to act tough over your opinion to a person who was comparing your numbers to actual playtime, congrats mate. 

[mikko.4013]

22 hours ago, IAmNotMatthew.1058 said:

Out of the 2 of us you are the one throwing UFE around to back your statements up, like having 70k UFE means you are right, while the other isn't. Other than "high UFE good, low UFE bad" you have no argument and always fall back on "but that's my opinion".

I think you have troubles understanding what I meant.

Let's sum things up, and make it easier for you :
- I stated my opinion about my personal skill thresholds in UFE LFG (10k-20k-30k)
- you disagreed with it, trying to mock me about how I would ask a high number of LI in RAID and RAID TRAINING
- I explained you that I don't ask for LI, and I don't do raids anyway
- someone (not me) exposed you for having 520UFE only (I never bragged about mine)

That could have ended there.
What you don't seem to understand, is that you have your own opinion about my personal UFE-skill thresholds... though you have NEVER experienced ANY of these LFGs.
Basically, you are trying to talk about how to drive a car, while you have close to zero experience in it. This is an argument. Try to prove it wrong 😘

22 hours ago, IAmNotMatthew.1058 said:

You went into trying to act tough over your opinion to a person who was comparing your numbers to actual playtime, congrats mate. 

I never said that "you have low UFE then you are wrong". Don't try to put words that I didn't say 😉.

I am saying that having that low UFE, you have close to ZERO experience in CMs, and you have close to ZERO experience in assessing how skilled is an average 10kUFE or 20kUFE or 30kUFE PUG party.
It's not about "I have more UFE than you", it's about "you didn't experience any of the LFGs we are talking about, and you want to prove me wrong, even though you are clueless about that.

22 hours ago, IAmNotMatthew.1058 said:

Your English is forgiven, considering all you pay attention to is UFE.

Well, we were discussing about UFEs, KPs, and gatekeeping. Just tell me how my English mastery is involved in that topic ? Let me help you : there is no connection.
But thank you all the same, still appreciated 😘.

22 hours ago, IAmNotMatthew.1058 said:

You went into trying to act tough over your opinion to a person who was comparing your numbers to actual playtime, congrats mate. 

You are still very entertaining, trying to reverse roles because you can't bear having been exposed for your lack of experience, lack of knowledge, lack of sense, lack of argumentation.
We are talking about UFEs tresholds in LFG, and I respect your courage to talk about it, without even having experienced it once 🙄.

It's not about time, but experience (which often go together). If you had about 10kUFE and managed to join 30kUFE parties on a regular basis (with static, friends, etc), I could take you seriously because you would have experienced it.
But, unfortunately, there is litteraly no way you could get an accurate idea about how UFEs thresholds work in LFG, with 5 days of daily old CMs only...

Now, as much as I enjoy your comical performance, I will stop answering you here, because I pity the other users that will have to read our love letters. 
Feel free to become my favorite keyboard friend in private message, because I might miss the entertainment 😘.

Edited August 7, 2023 by mikko.4013

[Sobx.1758]

On 8/6/2023 at 10:41 PM, TheNurgle.4825 said:

If you have 2 groups and one is with tag and other without ppl never join group without tag. We all know it and you can spend time and check LFG tool so yea you actaully need commander tag to successfully create group. Imagine being new create group without tag and after 60-90 mins just give up since you do not get 10 ppl.

Joined a 1/10 raid squad without commander yesterday and intentionally didn't tag up. At 7 or 8/10 someone did though. People join squads without tags too.

Notice how your initial claim was "oh and you need a tag for 300g too!" [to make a group in lfg], but now you pivoted into "if there are two groups and one has a tag while the other one doesn't then more people will join the one with the tag!". These are two different claims. Not only you still don't need a tag to make a group, your latter (current?) claim makes an assumption that two same -or really similar- groups exist at the same time in the lfg and people somehow need to compete against each other. Well, if that same group exists except with a tag then... join it. And according to the complaint "but the requirements are bad", make a tagless group without requirements and I guess you should be having an inflow of players joining the squad?

On 8/6/2023 at 10:41 PM, TheNurgle.4825 said:

You can finish any group achievement by making group in LFG achievement section and in theory yes, but it never happen since noone even looking in that section same for WvW.

It's not the same -and that's why you made up this "achievement lfg" example instead of addressing what we're talking about- and people do look in raid/strike/fractal lfg sections. I'd know since literally almost all clears I do, I did through lfg. Maybe you don't care about that lfg, but that doesn't make what you just said true.

On 8/6/2023 at 10:41 PM, TheNurgle.4825 said:

I also like when new ppl write on forum that game has gatekeeping and small endgame population everyone is like it is not true and give advice from veteran player perspective which is actually not helpful at all and do opposite.

False, I'm giving advice from the perspective of someone who started playing that content through lfg and still does it that way, so I'd say that my view on the state of lfg isn't somehow out of date/touch. It's just that it obviously is more convenient for you to take what I (or anyone else) say and flip it into some made up "weeeell you're talking from the perspective of having 43789kp so you don't know what you're talking about". Labeling people giving tips for how to play the content as "veterans who try to gatekeep it" is, well, at least misguided.

"not helpful at all and do opposite"? How?

Edited August 7, 2023 by Sobx.1758

[Kuma.1503]

So. I think OP does raise valid criticism about GW2 endgame content. 

I think many of us vets take for granted the new player experience. A positive development we've seen semi-recently is the rising popularity of LI builds. These go a long way towards easing new players into this game's more difficult content.

We should continue to share more of these types of builds. I've met a handful of newer players who have told me that playing LI builds like condi virt and rifle mech made that jump much less painful for them. 

 

However, I think there's still more work to be done, and a good deal of it lays on the feet of the developers. For example, it's worth considering if a queueing system would work in this game. GW2 lacks a holy trinity in the traditional sense. 

But what we do have is a seperate trinity unique to GW2. Instead of Tank/Heals/DPS we have DPS/Quick/Alac. If a player could simply queue for the content they want to play, that would ease a lot of the stress on their part. I've heard GW2's partying system compared to job applications by a disturbing amount of players. If we could make the process of partying up less stressful, that may encourage more people to give it a try. 

There will be a fair share of hurdles. How do we enforce builds? How do we resolve build discrepancies when they happen? Where do healers fit into all this?

One potential solution is for the game to give trait reccomendations based the role they're queueing. If they queue for quickness, and their build is incapable of providing group quickness, the game will ping them and ask them to change. It will then highlight the trait and utility choices necessary to perform the role. 

 

While I don't have any guaranteed answers on how to fix this issue. I think Anet should definitely look into how players get into parties, and make the process more inviting for anyone dipping their toes in for the first time. 

Edited August 8, 2023 by Kuma.1503

[sumpwa.1849]

As long as in game tools don't properly support end game PVE, players will continue to use methods like KP and community discords to gatekeep.

Firstly, group functionality should not be locked by a commander tag. The only thing the tag should allow you to do is to make 50 player squads, which only matters in WVW and Open World anyway.

Second, The LFG tool should allow people to queue up for your group even if its full, as long as it continues to be listed. This will make the LFG lists look more popular than they do now (IE Mostly dead). I'm okay with my group having a waitlist because it may encourage people to form their own groups instead of waiting on mine.

Third, the LFG tool should allow people who sign up for your group to be able to list a note in their sign up as to what role they will do. That way you can fill important roles with people who actually know what those roles are.

Ideally, I would also like to be able to gear inspect, but no one is ready for that conversation yet, even though it will massively reduce toxicity.

Please note that I am largely placing this burden on Anet. This game is over a decade old. Things need to change if they want strikes to succeed. You can't just throw together a bunch of 10 man encounters, leave them to the players to figure out, and not also improve the systems that surround that content.

[TheNurgle.4825]

On 8/8/2023 at 1:07 AM, Sobx.1758 said:

Joined a 1/10 raid squad without commander yesterday and intentionally didn't tag up. At 7 or 8/10 someone did though. People join squads without tags too.

Notice how your initial claim was "oh and you need a tag for 300g too!" [to make a group in lfg], but now you pivoted into "if there are two groups and one has a tag while the other one doesn't then more people will join the one with the tag!". These are two different claims. Not only you still don't need a tag to make a group, your latter (current?) claim makes an assumption that two same -or really similar- groups exist at the same time in the lfg and people somehow need to compete against each other. Well, if that same group exists except with a tag then... join it. And according to the complaint "but the requirements are bad", make a tagless group without requirements and I guess you should be having an inflow of players joining the squad?

So yesterday you joined one tagless group since we discuss it on forum to prove me wrong and I asked over 100 ppl over several weeks so sorry not taking you seriously. Also it is funny that yesterday I listen to something which is relevant to this topic. I even link it where they start talking about private and public groups and we all know that happen only when ingame LFG system is really bad.

 

On 8/8/2023 at 1:07 AM, Sobx.1758 said:

It's not the same -and that's why you made up this "achievement lfg" example instead of addressing what we're talking about- and people do look in raid/strike/fractal lfg sections. I'd know since literally almost all clears I do, I did through lfg. Maybe you don't care about that lfg, but that doesn't make what you just said true

Do you even understand why I put that example there? Since from this comment it does not look like it. That is similar like first one I take sample of 100 ppl and get results and you are like "I did exact opposite what you wrote once so you are wrong".

 

On 8/8/2023 at 1:07 AM, Sobx.1758 said:

False, I'm giving advice from the perspective of someone who started playing that content through lfg and still does it that way, so I'd say that my view on the state of lfg isn't somehow out of date/touch. It's just that it obviously is more convenient for you to take what I (or anyone else) say and flip it into some made up "weeeell you're talking from the perspective of having 43789kp so you don't know what you're talking about". Labeling people giving tips for how to play the content as "veterans who try to gatekeep it" is, well, at least misguided.

"not helpful at all and do opposite"? How?

I don't know. To improve anything first you need to admit that you have issue to solve and you are more like everything is fine and working just "do it and endure it".