About the new fractal

[Feanor.2358]

@Kheldorn.5123 said:I'm disappointed with new fractal, current fractal team and dev competition to push raid-like content into fractals. Fractals were supposed to be our substitue for dungeon, medium-difficulty content. Currently, for some reason, fractal team tries to compete with raid team to provide even more elitist content, pushing vocal minority of elitist on pedestal, trying to alienate even more players.

As mentioned above - don't like raids? Go play fractals. After the pollution ag tryhards is leaking to T4s and we are now being pushed away to lower tiers. Why? Because these players said so?

If we're just tryhards you wouldn't have problems playing T4, right? Form your own group and have fun.

[sigur.9453]

@Kheldorn.5123 said:I'm disappointed with new fractal, current fractal team and dev competition to push raid-like content into fractals. Fractals were supposed to be our substitue for dungeon, medium-difficulty content. Currently, for some reason, fractal team tries to compete with raid team to provide even more elitist content, pushing vocal minority of elitist on pedestal, trying to alienate even more players.

As mentioned above - don't like raids? Go play fractals. After the pollution ag tryhards is leaking to T4s and we are now being pushed away to lower tiers. Why? Because these players said so?

Your game won't survive on elitists. PvP proved this. If you keep pushing such ridiculous fractals like shattered observatory - which means random aoe spamfest, oversaturated visuals and messy mechanics - you will get a burst of hype for few months but lose more players in the process.

When Anet said that for 5-man content we should go fractals after they stopped developing dungeons, they lied. Recent fractals proved it.

what are you saying? you can still "outsubstain" every fractal. And besides CM all of them are pretty easy compared to raids.i don´t know where your problem is exactly. it IS medium diffuculty content.i don´t even see a differenc to dungeons at all. Except less mobs to skip and way quicker.

[GrubySzymek.1362]

@Feanor.2358 said:

@Kheldorn.5123 said:I'm disappointed with new fractal, current fractal team and dev competition to push raid-like content into fractals. Fractals were supposed to be our substitue for dungeon, medium-difficulty content. Currently, for some reason, fractal team tries to compete with raid team to provide even more elitist content, pushing vocal minority of elitist on pedestal, trying to alienate even more players.

As mentioned above - don't like raids? Go play fractals. After the pollution ag tryhards is leaking to T4s and we are now being pushed away to lower tiers. Why? Because these players said so?

If we're just tryhards you wouldn't have problems playing T4, right? Form your own group and have fun.

The bad design of encounters is not something that is fixed by making my own group :)

@sigur.9453 said:

@Kheldorn.5123 said:I'm disappointed with new fractal, current fractal team and dev competition to push raid-like content into fractals. Fractals were supposed to be our substitue for dungeon, medium-difficulty content. Currently, for some reason, fractal team tries to compete with raid team to provide even more elitist content, pushing vocal minority of elitist on pedestal, trying to alienate even more players.

As mentioned above - don't like raids? Go play fractals. After the pollution ag tryhards is leaking to T4s and we are now being pushed away to lower tiers. Why? Because these players said so?

Your game won't survive on elitists. PvP proved this. If you keep pushing such ridiculous fractals like shattered observatory - which means random aoe spamfest, oversaturated visuals and messy mechanics - you will get a burst of hype for few months but lose more players in the process.

When Anet said that for 5-man content we should go fractals after they stopped developing dungeons, they lied. Recent fractals proved it.

what are you saying? you can still "outsubstain" every fractal. And besides CM all of them are pretty easy compared to raids.i don´t know where your problem is exactly. it IS medium diffuculty content.i don´t even see a differenc to dungeons at all. Except less mobs to skip and way quicker.

The encounter design of new fractals, shattered being the worst offender here, is basically raid 2.0. I have no problem with CMs being overtuned, both mechanically and visually, but making normal T4s same way is a big no for me. Fractals are not raids and I hope fractal team gets it before they alieneta even more people than they already did :)

[Feanor.2358]

@Kheldorn.5123 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:

@Kheldorn.5123 said:I'm disappointed with new fractal, current fractal team and dev competition to push raid-like content into fractals. Fractals were supposed to be our substitue for dungeon, medium-difficulty content. Currently, for some reason, fractal team tries to compete with raid team to provide even more elitist content, pushing vocal minority of elitist on pedestal, trying to alienate even more players.

As mentioned above - don't like raids? Go play fractals. After the pollution ag tryhards is leaking to T4s and we are now being pushed away to lower tiers. Why? Because these players said so?

If we're just tryhards you wouldn't have problems playing T4, right? Form your own group and have fun.

The bad design of encounters is not something that is fixed by making my own group :)

See above. The design isn't bad, quite the contrary in fact. But if you don't want to take advantage of it, you're free to do so. Creating your own group doesn't seem to be such an effort that you would rather enforce your own way of playing over the whole playerbase. Or am I mistaken?

[Astralporing.1957]

@Feanor.2358 said:Ultimately - yeah, if you dislike a specific content, then don't play it. It's that simple. The game is big, and it has features targeted at all kinds of players. I don't do brawls, I don't do sPvP, I don't do complex JPs like the one in Malchor's Leap or that in Ember Bay. And guess what? It's fine. These are all things for other players to enjoy. Likewise, T4, CMs and raids are for people with a mindset similar to mine. To each their own.But that's the whole point - i did like t4s originally. It's the content that changed, not me. The game that i liked is being changed, piece by piece, into one that i find far less fun.Yes, i did stop doing fractal dailies and now visit that part of the game only very occasionally. That is what i am complaining against - these late changes chased me away from the content i was completely fine with before. That is what hurts the most.

[sigur.9453]

@Kheldorn.5123 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:

@Kheldorn.5123 said:I'm disappointed with new fractal, current fractal team and dev competition to push raid-like content into fractals. Fractals were supposed to be our substitue for dungeon, medium-difficulty content. Currently, for some reason, fractal team tries to compete with raid team to provide even more elitist content, pushing vocal minority of elitist on pedestal, trying to alienate even more players.

As mentioned above - don't like raids? Go play fractals. After the pollution ag tryhards is leaking to T4s and we are now being pushed away to lower tiers. Why? Because these players said so?

If we're just tryhards you wouldn't have problems playing T4, right? Form your own group and have fun.

The bad design of encounters is not something that is fixed by making my own group :)

@sigur.9453 said:

@Kheldorn.5123 said:I'm disappointed with new fractal, current fractal team and dev competition to push raid-like content into fractals. Fractals were supposed to be our substitue for dungeon, medium-difficulty content. Currently, for some reason, fractal team tries to compete with raid team to provide even more elitist content, pushing vocal minority of elitist on pedestal, trying to alienate even more players.

As mentioned above - don't like raids? Go play fractals. After the pollution ag tryhards is leaking to T4s and we are now being pushed away to lower tiers. Why? Because these players said so?

Your game won't survive on elitists. PvP proved this. If you keep pushing such ridiculous fractals like shattered observatory - which means random aoe spamfest, oversaturated visuals and messy mechanics - you will get a burst of hype for few months but lose more players in the process.

When Anet said that for 5-man content we should go fractals after they stopped developing dungeons, they lied. Recent fractals proved it.

what are you saying? you can still "outsubstain" every fractal. And besides CM all of them are pretty easy compared to raids.i don´t know where your problem is exactly. it IS medium diffuculty content.i don´t even see a differenc to dungeons at all. Except less mobs to skip and way quicker.

The encounter design of new fractals, shattered being the worst offender here, is basically raid 2.0. I have no problem with CMs being overtuned, both mechanically and visually, but making normal T4s same way is a big no for me. Fractals are not raids and I hope fractal team gets it before they alieneta even more people than they already did :)

could you please explain further? what is raids 2.0? not every boss there has "aoe spamming red circles". Also, what would you prefer instead? What do you want. it´s easy to complain and generalize but thats not called contructiv feedback."i don´t like the current state, it would be better to go back to ...................,because.............and i also find that ......... mechanics are more enjoyable"

[GrubySzymek.1362]

@Feanor.2358 said:

@Kheldorn.5123 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:

@Kheldorn.5123 said:I'm disappointed with new fractal, current fractal team and dev competition to push raid-like content into fractals. Fractals were supposed to be our substitue for dungeon, medium-difficulty content. Currently, for some reason, fractal team tries to compete with raid team to provide even more elitist content, pushing vocal minority of elitist on pedestal, trying to alienate even more players.

As mentioned above - don't like raids? Go play fractals. After the pollution ag tryhards is leaking to T4s and we are now being pushed away to lower tiers. Why? Because these players said so?

If we're just tryhards you wouldn't have problems playing T4, right? Form your own group and have fun.

The bad design of encounters is not something that is fixed by making my own group :)

See above. The design isn't bad, quite the contrary in fact. But if you don't want to take advantage of it, you're free to do so. Creating your own group doesn't seem to be such an effort that you would rather enforce your own way of playing over the whole playerbase. Or am I mistaken?

Of course you are mistaken :)

The problem here is content design which is trying to compete with raid desing. Making my own group won't fix this. This is very rare case where anet is to blame, not the community :)

[Feanor.2358]

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:Ultimately - yeah, if you dislike a specific content, then don't play it. It's that simple. The game is big, and it has features targeted at all kinds of players. I don't do brawls, I don't do sPvP, I don't do complex JPs like the one in Malchor's Leap or that in Ember Bay. And guess what? It's fine. These are all things for other players to enjoy. Likewise, T4, CMs and raids are for people with a mindset similar to mine. To each their own.But that's the whole point - i did like t4s originally. It's the

content

that changed, not me. The game that i liked is being changed, piece by piece, into one that i find far less fun.Yes, i did stop doing fractal dailies and now visit that part of the game only very occasionally. That is what i am complaining against - these late changes chased me away from the content i was completely fine with before.

That

is what hurts the most.

And the same changes made that content a lot more fun for me. The thing is, fun is subjective and you can't make something to please everyone, it is simply not possible. However, let me point out a simple fact:

You can find the experience you were fine with before, on lower tiers. The new experience, the one you're not comfortable with and I am, is exactly that - new. It didn't exist before. Adding it to the game increases its diversity, gives a wider number of players something to enjoy. What you're currently complaining against is that you're no longer having fun on the top difficulty tier. So what? Just drop one down. You'll miss one chest. So what? Why are you playing this game, any game? To get virtual rewards? Or to have fun?

[GrubySzymek.1362]

@Feanor.2358 said:

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:Ultimately - yeah, if you dislike a specific content, then don't play it. It's that simple. The game is big, and it has features targeted at all kinds of players. I don't do brawls, I don't do sPvP, I don't do complex JPs like the one in Malchor's Leap or that in Ember Bay. And guess what? It's fine. These are all things for other players to enjoy. Likewise, T4, CMs and raids are for people with a mindset similar to mine. To each their own.But that's the whole point - i did like t4s originally. It's the

content

that changed, not me. The game that i liked is being changed, piece by piece, into one that i find far less fun.Yes, i did stop doing fractal dailies and now visit that part of the game only very occasionally. That is what i am complaining against - these late changes chased me away from the content i was completely fine with before.

That

is what hurts the most.

And the same changes made that content a lot more fun for me. The thing is, fun is subjective and you can't make something to please everyone, it is simply not possible. However, let me point out a simple fact:

You

can

find the experience you were fine with before, on lower tiers. The new experience, the one you're not comfortable with and I am, is exactly that -

new

. It didn't exist before. Adding it to the game increases its diversity, gives a wider number of players something to enjoy. What you're currently complaining against is that you're no longer having fun on the top difficulty tier. So what? Just drop one down. You'll miss one chest. So what? Why are you playing this game, any game? To get virtual rewards? Or to have fun?

Thing is, for your kind of fun, there are raids. There is no reason to change rules for fractals fans to please you. You already have you fun in different mode.

[Zunki.3916]

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:Ultimately - yeah, if you dislike a specific content, then don't play it. It's that simple. The game is big, and it has features targeted at all kinds of players. I don't do brawls, I don't do sPvP, I don't do complex JPs like the one in Malchor's Leap or that in Ember Bay. And guess what? It's fine. These are all things for other players to enjoy. Likewise, T4, CMs and raids are for people with a mindset similar to mine. To each their own.But that's the whole point - i did like t4s originally. It's the

content

that changed, not me. The game that i liked is being changed, piece by piece, into one that i find far less fun.Yes, i did stop doing fractal dailies and now visit that part of the game only very occasionally. That is what i am complaining against - these late changes chased me away from the content i was completely fine with before.

That

is what hurts the most.

You are talking about Mai, Swampland and Molten Boss then? The other T4 fractals haven't been changed that much. I mean, you can still do the ones you liked back then, they just introduced new ones.

And yeah, the Encounter design of the new fractals is much better, but also different. Telegraphed attacks, all easily avoidable, solid bosses. It doesn't make it bad, but you can dislike it and that is a valid point. I actually wanted dungeons to be like this to begin with, this has nothing to do with raids. I was thrilled when they started 5 mans with solid design and enjoy them a lot. And the flawed 5 man content of the past was what let me quit GW2 for a long time...

[maddoctor.2738]

@Astralporing.1957 said:But that's the whole point - i did like t4s originally. It's the content that changed, not me. The game that i liked is being changed, piece by piece, into one that i find far less fun.Yes, i did stop doing fractal dailies and now visit that part of the game only very occasionally. That is what i am complaining against - these late changes chased me away from the content i was completely fine with before. That is what hurts the most.

Again, if you find T4 too much trouble for you, then play T3. There are dailies in T3 too you don't have to play T4 for the dailies. Completely moving away of Fractals when there are so many tiers of difficulty to choose from is illogical. Many people argued, including you, that multiple difficulty tiers were good for a game, I guess it was all a lie.

[sigur.9453]

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@Astralporing.1957 said:But that's the whole point - i did like t4s originally. It's the

content

that changed, not me. The game that i liked is being changed, piece by piece, into one that i find far less fun.Yes, i did stop doing fractal dailies and now visit that part of the game only very occasionally. That is what i am complaining against - these late changes chased me away from the content i was completely fine with before.

That

is what hurts the most.

Again, if you find T4 too much trouble for you, then play T3. There are dailies in T3 too you don't have to play T4 for the dailies. Completely moving away of Fractals when there are so many tiers of difficulty to choose from is illogical. Many people argued, including you, that multiple difficulty tiers were good for a game, I guess it was all a lie.

exactly my thought. same people who are demanding story mode for raids are complaining that t4 is to hard and they don´t want to "be forced" to do T3 fractals

[GrubySzymek.1362]

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@Astralporing.1957 said:But that's the whole point - i did like t4s originally. It's the

content

that changed, not me. The game that i liked is being changed, piece by piece, into one that i find far less fun.Yes, i did stop doing fractal dailies and now visit that part of the game only very occasionally. That is what i am complaining against - these late changes chased me away from the content i was completely fine with before.

That

is what hurts the most.

Again, if you find T4 too much trouble for you, then play T3. There are dailies in T3 too you don't have to play T4 for the dailies. Completely moving away of Fractals when there are so many tiers of difficulty to choose from is illogical. Many people argued, including you, that multiple difficulty tiers were good for a game, I guess it was all a lie.

They are changing T4 difficulty with recent additions. Shattered observatory is the best example. Even for normal mode this fractal is oversaturated mess. CMs are okay as they are intended to be raid like content. T4s are not supposed to be so.

You started with "dont like raids, go fractals". Today it's "dont like new fractals, go lower tier". Tomorrow you gonna tell "leave open world, go play character selection screen".

Anet made huge mistake catering to people like you and enforcing your misguided feel that raiding crowd can usurp and dictate how group content should look in our game. You have raids for raid content - stay there and don't change fractals in raids 2.0.

[maddoctor.2738]

@Kheldorn.5123 said:You started with "dont like raids, go fractals". Today it's "dont like new fractals, go lower tier". Tomorrow you gonna tell "leave open world, go play character selection screen".

And where is the problem with telling players to play the lower tier? This isn't about different types of content, this is about the same content that has multiple difficulties. T1 fractals are easier than most new Open World fights, so sending players to the Open World is highly unlikely.What happened to "We need multiple tiers of difficulty so we can train"? Doesn't seem to work very well in Fractals.

[sigur.9453]

@Kheldorn.5123 said:

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@Astralporing.1957 said:But that's the whole point - i did like t4s originally. It's the

content

that changed, not me. The game that i liked is being changed, piece by piece, into one that i find far less fun.Yes, i did stop doing fractal dailies and now visit that part of the game only very occasionally. That is what i am complaining against - these late changes chased me away from the content i was completely fine with before.

That

is what hurts the most.

Again, if you find T4 too much trouble for you, then play T3. There are dailies in T3 too you don't have to play T4 for the dailies. Completely moving away of Fractals when there are so many tiers of difficulty to choose from is illogical. Many people argued, including you, that multiple difficulty tiers were good for a game, I guess it was all a lie.

They are changing T4 difficulty with recent additions. Shattered observatory is the best example. Even for normal mode this fractal is oversaturated mess. CMs are okay as they are intended to be raid like content. T4s are not supposed to be so.

You started with "dont like raids, go fractals". Today it's "dont like new fractals, go lower tier". Tomorrow you gonna tell "leave open world, go play character selection screen".

Anet made huge mistake catering to people like you and enforcing your misguided feel that raiding crowd can usurp and dictate how group content should look in our game. You have raids for raid content - stay there and don't change fractals in raids 2.0.

i will ask again, what is raid 2.0? what recent addions?what would you like to change? how?why?stating opinions is no solid ground for a civilised discussion.

[Brynioch.1873]

@Kheldorn.5123 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:

@Kheldorn.5123 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:

@Kheldorn.5123 said:I'm disappointed with new fractal, current fractal team and dev competition to push raid-like content into fractals. Fractals were supposed to be our substitue for dungeon, medium-difficulty content. Currently, for some reason, fractal team tries to compete with raid team to provide even more elitist content, pushing vocal minority of elitist on pedestal, trying to alienate even more players.

As mentioned above - don't like raids? Go play fractals. After the pollution ag tryhards is leaking to T4s and we are now being pushed away to lower tiers. Why? Because these players said so?

If we're just tryhards you wouldn't have problems playing T4, right? Form your own group and have fun.

The bad design of encounters is not something that is fixed by making my own group :)

See above. The design isn't bad, quite the contrary in fact. But if you don't want to take advantage of it, you're free to do so. Creating your own group doesn't seem to be such an effort that you would rather enforce your own way of playing over the whole playerbase. Or am I mistaken?

Of course you are mistaken :)

The problem here is content design which is trying to compete with raid desing. Making my own group won't fix this. This is very rare case where anet is to blame, not the community :)

Where do fractals outside of challenge modes compete with raids? Dodging AoEs was always part of 5man content, that has nothing to do with raids. There is nowhere the level of coordination that raids, especially Dhuum, needs to complete it.

[Feanor.2358]

@Kheldorn.5123 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:Ultimately - yeah, if you dislike a specific content, then don't play it. It's that simple. The game is big, and it has features targeted at all kinds of players. I don't do brawls, I don't do sPvP, I don't do complex JPs like the one in Malchor's Leap or that in Ember Bay. And guess what? It's fine. These are all things for other players to enjoy. Likewise, T4, CMs and raids are for people with a mindset similar to mine. To each their own.But that's the whole point - i did like t4s originally. It's the

content

that changed, not me. The game that i liked is being changed, piece by piece, into one that i find far less fun.Yes, i did stop doing fractal dailies and now visit that part of the game only very occasionally. That is what i am complaining against - these late changes chased me away from the content i was completely fine with before.

That

is what hurts the most.

And the same changes made that content a lot more fun for me. The thing is, fun is subjective and you can't make something to please everyone, it is simply not possible. However, let me point out a simple fact:

You

can

find the experience you were fine with before, on lower tiers. The new experience, the one you're not comfortable with and I am, is exactly that -

new

. It didn't exist before. Adding it to the game increases its diversity, gives a wider number of players something to enjoy. What you're currently complaining against is that you're no longer having fun on the top difficulty tier. So what? Just drop one down. You'll miss one chest. So what? Why are you playing this game, any game? To get virtual rewards? Or to have fun?

Thing is, for your kind of fun, there are raids. There is no reason to change rules for fractals fans to please you. You already have you fun in different mode.

Thing is, raids are a different tier. They aren't reliably doable with pugs, or on a daily basis. T4s are. And you already have your fun in the lower tiers, too, so that particular point is moot.

[GrubySzymek.1362]

@Feanor.2358 said:

@Kheldorn.5123 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:Ultimately - yeah, if you dislike a specific content, then don't play it. It's that simple. The game is big, and it has features targeted at all kinds of players. I don't do brawls, I don't do sPvP, I don't do complex JPs like the one in Malchor's Leap or that in Ember Bay. And guess what? It's fine. These are all things for other players to enjoy. Likewise, T4, CMs and raids are for people with a mindset similar to mine. To each their own.But that's the whole point - i did like t4s originally. It's the

content

that changed, not me. The game that i liked is being changed, piece by piece, into one that i find far less fun.Yes, i did stop doing fractal dailies and now visit that part of the game only very occasionally. That is what i am complaining against - these late changes chased me away from the content i was completely fine with before.

That

is what hurts the most.

And the same changes made that content a lot more fun for me. The thing is, fun is subjective and you can't make something to please everyone, it is simply not possible. However, let me point out a simple fact:

You

can

find the experience you were fine with before, on lower tiers. The new experience, the one you're not comfortable with and I am, is exactly that -

new

. It didn't exist before. Adding it to the game increases its diversity, gives a wider number of players something to enjoy. What you're currently complaining against is that you're no longer having fun on the top difficulty tier. So what? Just drop one down. You'll miss one chest. So what? Why are you playing this game, any game? To get virtual rewards? Or to have fun?

Thing is, for your kind of fun, there are raids. There is no reason to change rules for fractals fans to please you. You already have you fun in different mode.

Thing is, raids are a different tier. They aren't reliably doable with pugs, or on a daily basis. T4s are. And

you

already have your fun in the lower tiers, too, so that particular point is moot.

I had fun with T4s already but recent additions are changing rules. If you like raid content, play raids, don't pollute T4s. Fractals are not raids so Anet devs should stop competing with each other on creating spam fest, oversaturated mechanics.

[maddoctor.2738]

@Kheldorn.5123 said:I had fun with T4s already but recent additions are changing rules. If you like raid content, play raids, don't pollute T4s. Fractals are not raids so Anet devs should stop competing with each other on creating spam fest, oversaturated mechanics.

Then keep playing T4s on the fractals that you can finish and go play T3, or T2 on those you cannot.The game added new things, from elite specs, to food, to gear, why is it so surprising that they are also making more complex content?It's been like this since the release of the game, every bit of content had parts on a higher complexity level than the previous, it's the natural cycle of a game.If you can't handle it, there are multiple difficulty settings in Fractals for a good reason, stop ignoring it.

[Feanor.2358]

@Kheldorn.5123 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:

@Kheldorn.5123 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:Ultimately - yeah, if you dislike a specific content, then don't play it. It's that simple. The game is big, and it has features targeted at all kinds of players. I don't do brawls, I don't do sPvP, I don't do complex JPs like the one in Malchor's Leap or that in Ember Bay. And guess what? It's fine. These are all things for other players to enjoy. Likewise, T4, CMs and raids are for people with a mindset similar to mine. To each their own.But that's the whole point - i did like t4s originally. It's the

content

that changed, not me. The game that i liked is being changed, piece by piece, into one that i find far less fun.Yes, i did stop doing fractal dailies and now visit that part of the game only very occasionally. That is what i am complaining against - these late changes chased me away from the content i was completely fine with before.

That

is what hurts the most.

And the same changes made that content a lot more fun for me. The thing is, fun is subjective and you can't make something to please everyone, it is simply not possible. However, let me point out a simple fact:

You

can

find the experience you were fine with before, on lower tiers. The new experience, the one you're not comfortable with and I am, is exactly that -

new

. It didn't exist before. Adding it to the game increases its diversity, gives a wider number of players something to enjoy. What you're currently complaining against is that you're no longer having fun on the top difficulty tier. So what? Just drop one down. You'll miss one chest. So what? Why are you playing this game, any game? To get virtual rewards? Or to have fun?

Thing is, for your kind of fun, there are raids. There is no reason to change rules for fractals fans to please you. You already have you fun in different mode.

Thing is, raids are a different tier. They aren't reliably doable with pugs, or on a daily basis. T4s are. And

you

already have your fun in the lower tiers, too, so that particular point is moot.

I had fun with T4s already but recent additions are changing rules. If you like raid content, play raids, don't pollute T4s. Fractals are not raids so Anet devs should stop competing with each other on creating spam fest, oversaturated mechanics.

Yes, fractals are not raids. Like I said, they are different tier. They are just slowly becoming more fun and engaging. But if you insist on doing content by pressing "1" half asleep, you can still do it, and still in fractals. I don't understand the desire to cripple tiered content by insisting its higher tier remain uber-casual.

[Astralporing.1957]

@maddoctor.2738 said:And where is the problem with telling players to play the lower tier?If you think that telling someone that has played a given content and was fine with it before that part of that content is no longer for him anymore is okay, and that person shouldn't be displeased, then i guess our way of looking at things is just way too different.

[Zunki.3916]

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@maddoctor.2738 said:And where is the problem with telling players to play the lower tier?If you think that telling someone that has played a given content and was fine with it before that part of that content is no longer for him anymore is okay, and that person shouldn't be displeased, then i guess our way of looking at things is just way too different.

It's not like the old T4s went away... They are still there, and can be played. Your given content is still there, no one took it away!

I mean, when they introduce a new raid that I'm not capable of doing, I won't go and say "but I was fine with doing raid-content and could do them, now I wont do the old raids any more because the new raid is too hard for me and so I dislike the whole raid-content"

[maddoctor.2738]

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@maddoctor.2738 said:And where is the problem with telling players to play the lower tier?If you think that telling someone that has played a given content and was fine with it before that part of that content is no longer for him anymore is okay, and that person shouldn't be displeased, then i guess our way of looking at things is just way too different.

It's not the same content though, since it's a completely different Fractal. That person shouldn't be displeased because they still have access to the T4 they could already finish, plus Fractals have this so much loved concept of difficulty tiers that they can use the lower tiers of the fractals they can't beat on T4.It's like saying that Tequatl should be the same difficulty as Shadow Behemoth because they are both the same type of content (world boss).Or that every story boss should be like the Earth Elemental that Ulgoth summons in the human starter instance, because it's the same type of content (story).

Guess what? Even dungeon paths are completely different in terms of challenge, we get jokes like Citadel of Flame Path 1, and we got tougher ones, like Arah Path 4.We got really easy Fractals, like Uncategorized, and we got harder ones like Volcanic.We got easy Raids like Escort and harder Raids like Matthias.It applies everywhere and it's obvious strategy in games, having content of multiple difficulties. As game's mature, they developers of said games do too, and they create more exciting and more complex mechanics. And what makes your argument laughable is the existence of multiple tiers of difficulty in Fractals, that are suddenly worthless.

[Cerioth.7062]

@Kheldorn.5123 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:Ultimately - yeah, if you dislike a specific content, then don't play it. It's that simple. The game is big, and it has features targeted at all kinds of players. I don't do brawls, I don't do sPvP, I don't do complex JPs like the one in Malchor's Leap or that in Ember Bay. And guess what? It's fine. These are all things for other players to enjoy. Likewise, T4, CMs and raids are for people with a mindset similar to mine. To each their own.But that's the whole point - i did like t4s originally. It's the

content

that changed, not me. The game that i liked is being changed, piece by piece, into one that i find far less fun.Yes, i did stop doing fractal dailies and now visit that part of the game only very occasionally. That is what i am complaining against - these late changes chased me away from the content i was completely fine with before.

That

is what hurts the most.

And the same changes made that content a lot more fun for me. The thing is, fun is subjective and you can't make something to please everyone, it is simply not possible. However, let me point out a simple fact:

You

can

find the experience you were fine with before, on lower tiers. The new experience, the one you're not comfortable with and I am, is exactly that -

new

. It didn't exist before. Adding it to the game increases its diversity, gives a wider number of players something to enjoy. What you're currently complaining against is that you're no longer having fun on the top difficulty tier. So what? Just drop one down. You'll miss one chest. So what? Why are you playing this game, any game? To get virtual rewards? Or to have fun?

Thing is, for your kind of fun, there are raids. There is no reason to change rules for fractals fans to please you. You already have you fun in different mode.

Excuse you?

I am both a raider and daily fractal runner. Let me tell you right now, fractals to me are completely DIFFERENT kind of fun than raids - yes, even CMs. Raids require high organizing, very specific composition (you can get away with it in fractals), doing the mechanics right or you will get 1 shotted etc.

I doubt you have ever raided, or tried only 1-2 nbosses. Fractal type attack mechanics are NOT typical for raids. Raids actually tend to have slower pace than high tier fractals but they require more individual skill and playing with mechanics - at VG your tank needs to constantly focus on correct positioning, druids need to control seekers, 4 people need to run greens, have to avoid blue teleports etc. Fractal mechanics are nowhere near as punishing or demanding. You all dont take massive damage if one player slacks. Compare Keep Construct mechanics to fractal mechanics and you'll see the difference between the punishing raid content and medium difficulty fractal content. Fractals are ultimately about correct movement, raids get more complex than that with execution. I go to do fractals when I want to have some mindless fun where my only concern is avoiding the damage circles and not having to worry about things like stun breaking fear at Slothasor.

[Rennie.6750]

@Feanor.2358 said:

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:Because you can't play lower-tier fractals?Suure. First it was "then don't raid". Then it was "don't do fractal CMs". Then it was "don't do t4's (or t3s)". What's next? "then don't play fractals"? "Don't play the game"? It's not like it's an one-time change - it's a process that keeps progressing. And with each new change the game becomes less and less fun.

It becomes more and more fun for me. Ultimately - yeah, if you dislike a specific content, then don't play it. It's that simple. The game is big, and it has features targeted at all kinds of players. I don't do brawls, I don't do sPvP, I don't do complex JPs like the one in Malchor's Leap or that in Ember Bay. And guess what? It's fine. These are all things for other players to enjoy. Likewise, T4, CMs and raids are for people with a mindset similar to mine. To each their own.

@Ahlen.7591 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:

@Ahlen.7591 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:

@Ahlen.7591 said:Also classes without consistent sustain are at a pretty massive disadvantage on the last boss.

Because you play it solo, kappa.

It's a cooperative game, all it takes is 1 support. 98-99-100 are actually harder to carry (and therefore - harder overall) because there are actual mechanics that can wipe you if players fail. Oasis you can just outheal.

GW2 as a game is not built on having a support, all classes are supposed to be able to stand on their own without a healer.

So saying "Just bring a healer" is counter to what this game is sold as.

Trust me I know, I play support FB and Druid and yes it makes it way easier. HOWEVER, that doesn't excuse design that either forces a healer or forces certain classes out of the game.

You are straight up making my argument for me when you say bring a support to cover for classes that lack sustain.

You can. On lower tiers. Stop pretending all of this game is casual. It's not.

I can only roll my eyes so much. I and many others have no problems completing this content, it was not challenging compared to content other MMO's provide but was a nice step up from normal GW2 fare. What I and many others are arguing for is that this content can exclude classes, and does not match up to the difficulty:reward ratio of other fractal content.

T1, T2, T3, T4, that problem will still persist. People in this thread are just arguing two different points.

The

content

can't exclude classes. Let's be realistic, it's easy even on T4. You can do it with any classes and any composition. It's the players that can, and do, exclude classes. There's a solid reason for that - the lack of teamplay in such random compositions. Yesterday someone in a pug asked why people "can't" play anymore without a druid and chrono in their group. It's not that I can't, we did the T4 dailies. It's that I don't want to, because the feeling is so much different. In groups like these everyone is basically playing solo. You play next to other players, but not

with

them. It's not remotely as fun as playing in a good composition where characters have different roles to execute.

And that's the thing. The design direction the fractal team is taking encourages teamplay. It makes the whole experience more fun, more engaging. And is therefore better. If for some reason you're fan of the "play solo next to others" approach, then you can still have it. And if you find it too hard, then drop down a tier to relax the difficulty. But if you, like me, find this boring, then it's extremely good that we can

now

have actual team content in instances designed to be played by, you know, teams.

What you refuse to acknowledge is that it's not a difficulty issue, at least not in a vacuum. It's fundamentally a rewards and consistency one. This fractal has the same rewards as older fractals while being significantly more demanding and having a significantly more punishing pacing. It's not about us being unable to complete it - I did, several times - it's about us not agreeing with removing older fractals with a more casual pacing and design for something much more difficult without adding meaningful rewards. Dropping a tier isn't a solution, t3 rewards in comparison are utter garbage. And you know it, so instead of using strawman arguments just say that you disagree on the fact that newer fractals that aren't 101+ should match older ones in terms of difficulty and rewards. That would be more honest than what you're trying to achieve. If you don't agree that a consistent risk/rewards ratio and time investment are issues then we can agree to disagree like adults and move on.