About the new fractal

[Feanor.2358]

Oh, you are, and very much so.

[shejesa.3712]

It's hard to tell you something constructive... Just git gud as some people say. Tune down your post processing and watch your steps. Dodging sideways helps as hell. And I think that you can't dodge everything. So stay close to your druid. Plus your special action key is a stunbreak. Utilize what you have instead of bitching, if I did it on my 2nd try (all hail mighty Balthazar form that is impossible lore-wise) with zero knowledge of the mechanics

[Cerioth.7062]

I love how some people ignore every post that has valid arguments against their claims...

[Astralporing.1957]

@zealex.9410 said:

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@maddoctor.2738 said:And where is the problem with telling players to play the lower tier?If you think that telling someone that has played a given content and was fine with it before that part of that content is no longer for him anymore is okay, and that person shouldn't be displeased, then i guess our way of looking at things is just way too different.

And telling to ppl that wanted hard 5 man and 10 man content for years that now that we start getting them its bad is okay?Well, in this "exchange" you are only gaining, and i'm only losing, so please pardon me for not feeling too charitable.

[zealex.9410]

@Rennie.6750 said:

@Linken.6345 said:

@Kheldorn.5123 said:

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@Astralporing.1957 said:But that's the whole point - i did like t4s originally. It's the

content

that changed, not me. The game that i liked is being changed, piece by piece, into one that i find far less fun.Yes, i did stop doing fractal dailies and now visit that part of the game only very occasionally. That is what i am complaining against - these late changes chased me away from the content i was completely fine with before.

That

is what hurts the most.

Again, if you find T4 too much trouble for you, then play T3. There are dailies in T3 too you don't have to play T4 for the dailies. Completely moving away of Fractals when there are so many tiers of difficulty to choose from is illogical. Many people argued, including you, that multiple difficulty tiers were good for a game, I guess it was all a lie.

They are changing T4 difficulty with recent additions. Shattered observatory is the best example. Even for normal mode this fractal is oversaturated mess. CMs are okay as they are intended to be raid like content. T4s are not supposed to be so.

You started with "dont like raids, go fractals". Today it's "dont like new fractals, go lower tier". Tomorrow you gonna tell "leave open world, go play character selection screen".

Anet made huge mistake catering to people like you and enforcing your misguided feel that raiding crowd can usurp and dictate how group content should look in our game. You have raids for raid content - stay there and don't change fractals in raids 2.0.

What do you expect the raiders should do after clearing their raid in 1-2 days leave the game for the week?Yea that will entice them to buy from the gemstore no doubt.

Play open world events or wvw like the rest of us? There's a lot to do besides raids or fractals. I'm a raid capable player and still do a bit of open world because why not (facerolls are fun when the rewards are there) and all sorts of fun pvp activities, because that's where the real challenge is. :)

If i wanted to sleep id go to my bed and do so. And frankly everything they added open world wise since pof makes me wonna sleep.

I also cba to play for 2000 wvw lvls to start getting value. So fractals it is.

[maddoctor.2738]

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@zealex.9410 said:

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@maddoctor.2738 said:And where is the problem with telling players to play the lower tier?If you think that telling someone that has played a given content and was fine with it before that part of that content is no longer for him anymore is okay, and that person shouldn't be displeased, then i guess our way of looking at things is just way too different.

And telling to ppl that wanted hard 5 man and 10 man content for years that now that we start getting them its bad is okay?Well, in this "exchange" you are only gaining, and i'm only losing, so please pardon me for not feeling too charitable.

You are not losing anything, the content is still there and you can do the magical lower tiers :)

[Linken.6345]

@shejesa.3712 said:It's hard to tell you something constructive... Just git gud as some people say. Tune down your post processing and watch your steps. Dodging sideways helps as hell. And I think that you can't dodge everything. So stay close to your druid. Plus your special action key is a stunbreak. Utilize what you have instead of kitten, if I did it on my 2nd try (all hail mighty Balthazar form that is impossible lore-wise) with zero knowledge of the mechanics

Not impossible lore wise at all since this is way earlier in time when joko destroyed the sunspears

[Feanor.2358]

@Linken.6345 said:

@shejesa.3712 said:It's hard to tell you something constructive... Just git gud as some people say. Tune down your post processing and watch your steps. Dodging sideways helps as hell. And I think that you can't dodge everything. So stay close to your druid. Plus your special action key is a stunbreak. Utilize what you have instead of kitten, if I did it on my 2nd try (all hail mighty Balthazar form that is impossible lore-wise) with zero knowledge of the mechanics

Not impossible lore wise at all since this is way earlier in time when joko destroyed the sunspears

That's actually a nice touch. The fight with undead Amala doesn't have a Balthazar phase, but the one in the fractal does.

[GrubySzymek.1362]

@Feanor.2358 said:

@Linken.6345 said:

@shejesa.3712 said:It's hard to tell you something constructive... Just git gud as some people say. Tune down your post processing and watch your steps. Dodging sideways helps as hell. And I think that you can't dodge everything. So stay close to your druid. Plus your special action key is a stunbreak. Utilize what you have instead of kitten, if I did it on my 2nd try (all hail mighty Balthazar form that is impossible lore-wise) with zero knowledge of the mechanics

Not impossible lore wise at all since this is way earlier in time when joko destroyed the sunspears

That's actually a nice touch. The fight with undead Amala doesn't have a Balthazar phase, but the one in the fractal does.

Do you mean Amala in open world? She has Balthazar form.

[miku.3025]

once a month a new fractal like this will be nice..... heh :p

[GoZero.9708]

I simply don't do this Fractal when the Daily calls for it. It lasts far too long and doing the final boss with a pug party is intolerable for me. The issue with making harder and longer lasting Fractal instances it that the final reward isn't worth it compared to if I went two Scales higher and did Swampland in a fraction of the time instead. The Cliffside and Dredge reworks fixed these sorts of issues but they seemed to have backtracked with Twilight Oasis. Honestly the Fractal could stand to lose either the beginning section where you run to Amala before being Awakened or the entire section of going across the roofs between being awakened in the boss. Both sections are nothing but padding.

[Hex.2579]

i don't understand why it's so hard for others? first day when it came out, my friends and i barged in and we got it till our 4th time getting wipe. yea 4th time, we're nowhere elitists or speed run, just tried to do our best while figuring out the mechanics. with each wipe, we progressed further. 2 times didn't have enough cc for cc phase. but otherwise, it was a good run in less than 52 mins.

i really enjoy the fractal with all the animations and different mechanics. i don't get why Anet didn't bump it up to 99 though. cuz i could see myself doing it in a CM.though i feel like the fractal itself could use an overhaul cuz the whole running around is pointless. you know how pugs skip most of the time to just end up dying half way and reset? lol. then i had to force myself /gg, i lost count. that's the terrible part of the fractal though. if you position yourself well during the boss fight, the fight is pretty straightforward.

edit: afaik, they already deleted some add on mechanics. so it's easier now than it was on that very first day.

[Bugabuga.9721]

@"GoZero.9708" said:I simply don't do this Fractal when the Daily calls for it. It lasts far too long and doing the final boss with a pug party is intolerable for me. The issue with making harder and longer lasting Fractal instances it that the final reward isn't worth it compared to if I went two Scales higher and did Swampland in a fraction of the time instead. The Cliffside and Dredge reworks fixed these sorts of issues but they seemed to have backtracked with Twilight Oasis. Honestly the Fractal could stand to lose either the beginning section where you run to Amala before being Awakened or the entire section of going across the roofs between being awakened in the boss. Both sections are nothing but padding.

Bonus -- if "slow down for each percentage of health" instability is added, even minimal health loss becomes critical as it gets harder to get out of knock-down aoe path and parties wipe repeatedly :pensive:Yeah, skipping the "new" one. Let CM specialists handle it :smile:

It does mean that in the late evening LFG is basically empty for fractals though, as CM runs / stable groups are all done.

[Subli.8217]

so much QQ. this fractal is fast and easy, allows you to skip mobs and there are also shortcuts you can find that allow you to skip skips(!) and jump directly to sandbinders.

only 2 very annoying things -

1. mobs have a huge leash range, making only stealth skipping a viable option (mainly talking about the first skip)
2. the villagers that shoot fire arrows have ridiculous aggro and attack range, would love to see this drastically reduced.

[Klowdy.3126]

@Anarion.3678 said:Nightmare, Observatory, now this. I could write a very long post, but everything can be summarised into - STOP kitten MAKING FRACTALS INTO RAIDS.

kitten is this? After saying that you wont be doing anymore difficult fractals, you practically made (nightmare+observatory)^2. Unbelievable...Very disappointed.

It seems as if they are pushing to make raids seem more viable to a larger minority, maybe even the majority of players. By making fractals, a much more open endgame grouping experience, more and more like raids, it may deter players less. If fractal mechanics mirror raid mechanics, people may be more willing to brave the toxicity that plagues the pugs in this (and all other games') engame content.

[maxwelgm.4315]

@Klowdy.3126 said:

@Anarion.3678 said:Nightmare, Observatory, now this. I could write a very long post, but everything can be summarised into - STOP kitten MAKING FRACTALS INTO RAIDS.

kitten is this? After saying that you wont be doing anymore difficult fractals, you practically made (nightmare+observatory)^2. Unbelievable...Very disappointed.

It seems as if they are pushing to make raids seem more viable to a larger minority, maybe even the majority of players. By making fractals, a much more open endgame grouping experience, more and more like raids, it may deter players less. If fractal mechanics mirror raid mechanics, people may be more willing to brave the toxicity that plagues the pugs in this (and all other games') engame content.

Only LFR in WoW has truly increased raid viability so far, and it would come with the criticism and toxicity from top players that is much unwanted by the rest of the community. LFR has also more or less sealed the tomb of the rest of the content and only Raids are even remotely relevant by now, something GW2, in spite of all the criticism, is actually trying to avoid.

[zealex.9410]

@maxwelgm.4315 said:

@Klowdy.3126 said:

@Anarion.3678 said:Nightmare, Observatory, now this. I could write a very long post, but everything can be summarised into - STOP kitten MAKING FRACTALS INTO RAIDS.

kitten is this? After saying that you wont be doing anymore difficult fractals, you practically made (nightmare+observatory)^2. Unbelievable...Very disappointed.

It seems as if they are pushing to make raids seem more viable to a larger minority, maybe even the majority of players. By making fractals, a much more open endgame grouping experience, more and more like raids, it may deter players less. If fractal mechanics mirror raid mechanics, people may be more willing to brave the toxicity that plagues the pugs in this (and all other games') engame content.

Only LFR in WoW has truly increased raid viability so far, and it would come with the criticism and toxicity from top players that is much unwanted by the rest of the community. LFR has also more or less sealed the tomb of the rest of the content and only Raids are even remotely relevant by now, something GW2, in spite of all the criticism, is actually trying to avoid.

lfr was prob the one worst thing that was added to wow right next to lfg.

[maxwelgm.4315]

@zealex.9410 said:

@maxwelgm.4315 said:

@Klowdy.3126 said:

@Anarion.3678 said:Nightmare, Observatory, now this. I could write a very long post, but everything can be summarised into - STOP kitten MAKING FRACTALS INTO RAIDS.

kitten is this? After saying that you wont be doing anymore difficult fractals, you practically made (nightmare+observatory)^2. Unbelievable...Very disappointed.

It seems as if they are pushing to make raids seem more viable to a larger minority, maybe even the majority of players. By making fractals, a much more open endgame grouping experience, more and more like raids, it may deter players less. If fractal mechanics mirror raid mechanics, people may be more willing to brave the toxicity that plagues the pugs in this (and all other games') engame content.

Only LFR in WoW has truly increased raid viability so far, and it would come with the criticism and toxicity from top players that is much unwanted by the rest of the community. LFR has also more or less sealed the tomb of the rest of the content and only Raids are even remotely relevant by now, something GW2, in spite of all the criticism, is actually trying to avoid.

lfr was prob the one worst thing that was added to wow right next to lfg.

@zealex.9410 said:

@maxwelgm.4315 said:

@Klowdy.3126 said:

@Anarion.3678 said:Nightmare, Observatory, now this. I could write a very long post, but everything can be summarised into - STOP kitten MAKING FRACTALS INTO RAIDS.

kitten is this? After saying that you wont be doing anymore difficult fractals, you practically made (nightmare+observatory)^2. Unbelievable...Very disappointed.

It seems as if they are pushing to make raids seem more viable to a larger minority, maybe even the majority of players. By making fractals, a much more open endgame grouping experience, more and more like raids, it may deter players less. If fractal mechanics mirror raid mechanics, people may be more willing to brave the toxicity that plagues the pugs in this (and all other games') engame content.

Only LFR in WoW has truly increased raid viability so far, and it would come with the criticism and toxicity from top players that is much unwanted by the rest of the community. LFR has also more or less sealed the tomb of the rest of the content and only Raids are even remotely relevant by now, something GW2, in spite of all the criticism, is actually trying to avoid.

lfr was prob the one worst thing that was added to wow right next to lfg.

LFR is important on that other game because raids are mandatory content insofar as players actually have the meat of story being developed in raids. Mechanics and such are also developed with raids in mind for that other game. You like organized group content? Don't use LFR. You want to see the encounters and get a glimpse of them specially before having the gear? Then LFR is for you.

While LFR is not something I would ever endorse in GW2, saying it's bad does not detract from it increasing the viability of raiding for people who would otherwise simply not raid. If that is a bad thing for a sect of players (don't know why specially with instanced content), this is another story, but it is certainly good for the developer if they want to have more PvX players doing all of what they have to offer; with that said, I think GW2 is already closer than WoW in the "players are dedicated to the game and do most of it" mark, and don't need any kind of further accessibility effort on raids other than how harder it is to find 10 people than it is to find 5. If anything, they should keep bringing the gap between Fractals and Raids closer and closer with more CMs so that players who like this kind of stuff have an option that does not involve large amounts of waiting for the group.

[Klowdy.3126]

Clarification: I am not for LFR. I am only stating it appears as if this is Anet's approach to a kind of LFR. I am not saying it's good or bad, only that with the increase in mechanics and difficulty, new fractals seem to be pushing toward a bridge between fractals and raids.

@maxwelgm.4315 said:

@zealex.9410 said:

@maxwelgm.4315 said:

@Klowdy.3126 said:

@Anarion.3678 said:Nightmare, Observatory, now this. I could write a very long post, but everything can be summarised into - STOP kitten MAKING FRACTALS INTO RAIDS.

kitten is this? After saying that you wont be doing anymore difficult fractals, you practically made (nightmare+observatory)^2. Unbelievable...Very disappointed.

It seems as if they are pushing to make raids seem more viable to a larger minority, maybe even the majority of players. By making fractals, a much more open endgame grouping experience, more and more like raids, it may deter players less. If fractal mechanics mirror raid mechanics, people may be more willing to brave the toxicity that plagues the pugs in this (and all other games') engame content.

Only LFR in WoW has truly increased raid viability so far, and it would come with the criticism and toxicity from top players that is much unwanted by the rest of the community. LFR has also more or less sealed the tomb of the rest of the content and only Raids are even remotely relevant by now, something GW2, in spite of all the criticism, is actually trying to avoid.

lfr was prob the one worst thing that was added to wow right next to lfg.

@zealex.9410 said:

@maxwelgm.4315 said:

@Klowdy.3126 said:

@Anarion.3678 said:Nightmare, Observatory, now this. I could write a very long post, but everything can be summarised into - STOP kitten MAKING FRACTALS INTO RAIDS.

kitten is this? After saying that you wont be doing anymore difficult fractals, you practically made (nightmare+observatory)^2. Unbelievable...Very disappointed.

It seems as if they are pushing to make raids seem more viable to a larger minority, maybe even the majority of players. By making fractals, a much more open endgame grouping experience, more and more like raids, it may deter players less. If fractal mechanics mirror raid mechanics, people may be more willing to brave the toxicity that plagues the pugs in this (and all other games') engame content.

Only LFR in WoW has truly increased raid viability so far, and it would come with the criticism and toxicity from top players that is much unwanted by the rest of the community. LFR has also more or less sealed the tomb of the rest of the content and only Raids are even remotely relevant by now, something GW2, in spite of all the criticism, is actually trying to avoid.

lfr was prob the one worst thing that was added to wow right next to lfg.

LFR is important on that other game because raids are mandatory content insofar as players actually have the meat of story being developed in raids. Mechanics and such are also developed with raids in mind for that other game. You like organized group content? Don't use LFR. You want to see the encounters and get a glimpse of them specially before having the gear? Then LFR is for you.

While LFR is not something I would ever endorse in GW2, saying it's bad does not detract from it increasing the viability of raiding for people who would otherwise simply not raid. If that is a bad thing for a sect of players (don't know why specially with instanced content), this is another story, but it is certainly good for the developer if they want to have more PvX players doing

all

of what they have to offer; with that said, I think GW2 is already closer than WoW in the "players are dedicated to the game and do most of it" mark, and don't need any kind of further accessibility effort on raids other than how harder it is to find 10 people than it is to find 5. If anything, they should keep bringing the gap between Fractals and Raids closer and closer with more CMs so that players who like this kind of stuff have an option that does not involve large amounts of waiting for the group.

I have to disagree with some of what was said in the end. I see more people talking about only doing certain aspects of this game more than any other. PvP is more polarizing in GW2. The pace makes it less open to everyone than a game like WoW. I do random unranked stuff every now and then, but that is it.

I tried WvW a few time and completely disliked it.

I do not raid because I don't need my limited play time to be filled with negative, toxic players, and I learn games by playing them, not studying videos like a professional athlete, so I don't subject others to that.

I run dungeons when I can, but those are ghost towns.

Fractals are the most consistent PvE content in game, so most of my time is spent there, or in the OW.

This is just my specific experience, but I see more people like this than any other game I play, or have played. This is a great game because it offers so many routes, but what I see is people taking one or two of these paths most of the time (on a regular basis). I do agree in bridging the gap, I just hope this works out better than LFR, and doesn't turn people off of fractals.

[Talindra.4958]

I prefer short and simple fractals for dailies reward farm - t4. I do cm only when I hv time during off peak hour when I hv less lag --permanent avg 400 ping plus lag spike during high population makes it extra challenging.. so I avoid at all cost :pThe new fractal was not bad.. I pug my first new fractal t4 .. made my own team. Asked for chrono dps and bs, myself as druid. I also requested no spoiler bcos I hadnt done it. And one dude said.. last team he was in ended very badly.. so I requested all to understand how to benefit from buff sharing etc if not pls leave the party now.. and no one said anything and they stayed.. it was really smooth no one die or down... I was very surprised.. my second run with part pug part guildies were actually not as smooth but that's because we tried to get every single achievement points in that run xD.I think the fractal is a bit too long for normal run and for the reward .. :p

[Benjamin Arnold.3457]

We have some changes planned for the new year to help bring down the average time while retaining (or even improving) the overall experience. We will continue to monitor our analytics and feedback for this fractal for any future improvements.

[Vulf.3098]

@zealex.9410 said:lfr was prob the one worst thing that was added to wow right next to lfg.

The idea of LFR is good on paper but it was implemented poorly and then further twisted by the vocal minority. LFR in WoW basically removes the raid from raiding due to making the content unfailable, with no organization or communication.

My big issue with LFG in WoW is the complete automation of it. I was happy that I no longer had to stand in front of the dungeon entrance for hours yelling for what my group needed but at the cost of removing all forms of communication it honestly wasn't worth it. People just get auto matched with each other and leave when the instance is cleared.

It is an MMO. Group content should require you to communicate with each other.

[zealex.9410]

@Vulf.3098 said:

@zealex.9410 said:lfr was prob the one worst thing that was added to wow right next to lfg.

The idea of LFR is good on paper but it was implemented poorly and then further twisted by the vocal minority. LFR in WoW basically removes the raid from raiding due to making the content unfailable, with no organization or communication.

My big issue with LFG in WoW is the complete automation of it. I was happy that I no longer had to stand in front of the dungeon entrance for hours yelling for what my group needed but at the cost of removing all forms of communication it honestly wasn't worth it. People just get auto matched with each other and leave when the instance is cleared.

It is an MMO. Group content should require you to communicate with each other.

Imo it destroyed alot of what was the community aspect of wow.

[Bugabuga.9721]

@Benjamin Arnold.3457 said:We have some changes planned for the new year to help bring down the average time while retaining (or even improving) the overall experience. We will continue to monitor our analytics and feedback for this fractal for any future improvements.

One more small thing to perhaps consider: the current implementation of hamstrung seems extremely punishing in some fractals as movement is crucial and with hamstrung being hit couple times means cascading failure -- especially in initial phase of bloomhunger where even using the gun won't help much. Can it be capped at 33% (kind of like being frozen?). That'd probably help a lot as most PUG failures I see in bloomhunger happen in initial phase. (I hate vindicators and toxic trail too, but I guess we're stuck with those)

Also perhaps double the length of potion time for higher fractals? :smile:

[Orion Templar.4589]

@Benjamin Arnold.3457 said:We have some changes planned for the new year to help bring down the average time while retaining (or even improving) the overall experience. We will continue to monitor our analytics and feedback for this fractal for any future improvements.

This is good news. One thing that I like about fractals is that they are usually a fairly low investment in time. They are fun content that you can get into quickly when you only have gaming time in small chunks. When I see fractals that take an hour or more, to me that's not a fractal, or at least not what a fractal should be.