Ranger - Virtuoso - Granade Kit

[Roxy Enjoy.1950]

Ranger damage is insanely hight, need an hot fix, we cannot wait the next balance patch, is not balance matter, is more like a bug, is very insane.

Mesmer has many issues, first of all the shield on any mesmer spec is too much, too strong. Second, Virtuoso singet is immortal and keep deal condi damage with any skill pressed, too easy to play, too easy to survive and too easy to tank everyone, virtuoso is immortal and now even worse due to shield, Virtuoso need Distortion nerf, Virtuoso need shield nerf, Mesmer need more CD in his passive.

Engineer Granade is a problem, the granade kit deal way too much damage, can 100 - 0 whole team in a team fight, too much damage, also the combo invisible + gyro + granade spam can kill any player within 2 seconds, this is too much, granade kit need a nerf. 

Edited August 28, 2023 by Roxy Enjoy.1950

[Sahne.6950]

it helps, when you make diffrent Threads for diffrent topics.

That thing right here is a rant at best 😄

[Roxy Enjoy.1950]

3 minutes ago, Sahne.6950 said:

it helps, when you make diffrent Threads for diffrent topics.

That thing right here is a rant at best 😄

First thread was about ranger only, after playing 30+ hours of pvp with the new balance patch/expansion i have something to add, and i added the mesmer and granade issues, ranger issues is pretty well knowed at this point, but i didnt saw any thread about Virtuoso, Virtuoso will be the next overpowered spec, give 3/4 more days and you will see only Virtuoso signets + shield, is completely broken, is unkillable and deal way too much condi damage, also is easy to play, just spam and dodge, you will kill someone.

[zyra.7860]

I agree about ranger doing way too much burst dmg atm

[Terrorhuz.4695]

- Remove F5 block on virtuoso
- Give virtuoso an even stronger block with shield

IDK how anyone expected this to work out, but with the benefit of hindsight we can admit this whole reasoning could have used some balancing.
Honest talk about mesmer here

1) Blurred Inscriptions currently gives distortion any time you cast a signet. This shouldn't exist in any way, shape or form: the distortion from this trait should be removed, without compensation. The trait is strong enough already as it is.
2) Blade Renewal comes from the original design of Virtuoso: you can't invuln anymore, but you can block. If you really wanted to have an invuln, you slot a dedicated utility skill for that. It's not as strong as baseline distortion (can't be activated while stunned, can't cover other actions) but it gets the job done. Then balancing considerations occurred: virtuoso was so easy to focus, so the cd was lowered to 40s, placing it as the invuln with the lowest cd in the game.
The main take is that none of those design points exist Today. S*lar introduced Blade Renewal to compensate the change from invulnerability to block... but virtuoso was redesigned since then. The block which was supposed to substitute Distortion is gone, and Distortion (which wasn't designed to be there) is now a normal shatter. All the reasons that justified the creation of blade renewal are now gone, so... the current iteration of that skill doesn't have any reason to exist today. Should definitely be reworked IMHO, but the whole spec is really badly designed IMHO

Edited August 28, 2023 by Terrorhuz.4695

[Roxy Enjoy.1950]

1 hour ago, Terrorhuz.4695 said:

- Remove F5 block on virtuoso
- Give virtuoso an even stronger block with shield

IDK how anyone expected this to work out, but with the benefit of hindsight we can admit this whole reasoning could have used some balancing.
Honest talk about mesmer here

1) Blurred Inscriptions currently gives distortion any time you cast a signet. This shouldn't exist in any way, shape or form: the distortion from this trait should be removed, without compensation. The trait is strong enough already as it is.
2) Blade Renewal comes from the original design of Virtuoso: you can't invuln anymore, but you can block. If you really wanted to have an invuln, you slot a dedicated utility skill for that. It's not as strong as baseline distortion (can't be activated while stunned, can't cover other actions) but it gets the job done. Then balancing considerations occurred: virtuoso was so easy to focus, so the cd was lowered to 40s, placing it as the invuln with the lowest cd in the game.
The main take is that none of those design points exist Today. S*lar introduced Blade Renewal to compensate the change from invulnerability to block... but virtuoso was redesigned since then. The block which was supposed to substitute Distortion is gone, and Distortion (which wasn't designed to be there) is now a normal shatter. All the reasons that justified the creation of blade renewal are now gone, so... the current iteration of that skill doesn't have any reason to exist today. Should definitely be reworked IMHO, but the whole spec is really badly designed IMHO

Yeah man, Virtuoso will be insane next weeks, now i dont see many of them around, but they will be next signet cata, imagine a virtuoso rabid amulet with antitoxin runes and shield, this is a mess, Virtuoso need to be nerfed now.... It will be the next signet catalyst, i will quit this game if they dont balance this stuff, ranger and virtuoso have priority on nerfs, engi granade can wait, engi is not that strong, only granade are aproblem.

[coro.3176]

I just gotta ask, has your spell checker not got an update since 1913?

[Eddbopkins.2630]

Has anet come out and said ranger damage is bug or is it just you guys the "community" saying it's buged? If anet has not said anything don't expect it to change for at least 6 months when/if the decided to do the usual balance.

[Endo.1652]

I dont think ranger is bugged. I think just some coefficients were overlooked along with dmg mods of things like sic em for soulbeast. Ranger has always had ways to stack a lot of dmg modifiers onto itself. The problem people also have is compared to other specs that do the same thing dont have as strong of a utility to survive when pressured.

That being said, power soulbeasts can still die super easily outside of their combos. More than one person just need to treat them like other glass specs and hard focus them as soon as they enter a fight like they would vs a power chrono or a gunflame warrior.

[Terrorhuz.4695]

19 hours ago, Roxy Enjoy.1950 said:

Yeah man, Virtuoso will be insane next weeks, now i dont see many of them around, but they will be next signet cata, imagine a virtuoso rabid amulet with antitoxin runes and shield, this is a mess, Virtuoso need to be nerfed now.... It will be the next signet catalyst, i will quit this game if they dont balance this stuff, ranger and virtuoso have priority on nerfs, engi granade can wait, engi is not that strong, only granade are aproblem.

That's an overstatement. The build itself suffers from all the old virtuoso problems (no setup, only super telegraphed attacks), and rune of the antitoxin alone denies any damage from this build. It's just going to be extremely boring to face, as all immortal builds are, and a badly designed one too.

Edited August 29, 2023 by Terrorhuz.4695

[Shagie.7612]

15 hours ago, Endorphin.9147 said:

I think just some coefficients were overlooked along with dmg mods of things like sic em for soulbeast.

Honestly I'm not even sure they were overlooked so much as unchanged because Soulbeast lost pet swap at the same time they went through and reduced coefficients so it wasn't necessary to reduce porcine maul cause of opportunity costs at the time.

A couple other things escaped nerfs at the time, and were later reduced down the road, but I'd be willing to bet that the patch that gave soulbeast back the second pet was so far away from Feb 2020 that they simply forgot.

[Gotejjeken.1267]

Virtuoso is immortal but Soulbeast is unstoppable...seems balanced to me.  

[Gotejjeken.1267]

Also found this vid you might be right...Virutoso is OP....

trashgamegarbagebad - Twitch

[Terrorhuz.4695]

12 hours ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

Also found this vid you might be right...Virutoso is OP....

trashgamegarbagebad - Twitch

The damage is obscene on a full glass (10k f2... and it's a condi skill!).

But

The class relies on very weird projectiles.
- Projectiles from F1 autotrack and shoot from the same angle, but at different times
- Projectiles from F2 shoot at the same time, but don't autotrack and don't shoot from the same angle
- Projectile from F3 shoots from a single angle and in a single instant, but it doesn't autotrack and the projectile itself is slow

In a nutshell, it's really hard to get those numbers in pvp, for different reasons.
F1: since projectiles shoot for some time, targets have time to dodge\los only part of the attack
F2: since projectiles shoot at different angles, some projectiles will have clear LoS on the target and connect, some other projectiles will not
F3: since it's really kittening slow and doesn't autotrack, it just doesn't hit

The obvious answer would be using setup skills (like rangers do with point blank shot => rapid fire, or guardians with deflecting shot => true shot), but virtuoso doesn't really have anything of the sorts other than pistol5. Knockbacks don't last long enough to combo any of those skills, and all other mesmer CC is pretty much dazes.

TLDR damage can be obscene, but it's extremely easy to miss and mesmer has no obvious ways to set it up

[Bazsi.2734]

Virtuoso needs more defenses. Ranger needs more damage.

[jdawgie.1835]

On 8/28/2023 at 1:55 AM, Roxy Enjoy.1950 said:

Ranger damage is insanely hight, need an hot fix, we cannot wait the next balance patch, is not balance matter, is more like a bug, is very insane.

Mesmer has many issues, first of all the shield on any mesmer spec is too much, too strong. Second, Virtuoso singet is immortal and keep deal condi damage with any skill pressed, too easy to play, too easy to survive and too easy to tank everyone, virtuoso is immortal and now even worse due to shield, Virtuoso need Distortion nerf, Virtuoso need shield nerf, Mesmer need more CD in his passive.

Engineer Granade is a problem, the granade kit deal way too much damage, can 100 - 0 whole team in a team fight, too much damage, also the combo invisible + gyro + granade spam can kill any player within 2 seconds, this is too much, granade kit need a nerf. 

Engi is fine, Ranger is fine, we complaining about virt now? My dude your posts are just nerf everything you loose too? This is what I gather. This forum is ridiculous. Virt is not an issue atm even a little bit. Tf is this?

Grenade range on engi could use an adjustment

PvE Damage being used in pvp for ranger is not good

Virt I cant even tell what your upset about so idk - but be specific before they ignore grenades all together and reduce melee damage by 50% making grenades the only viable thing on engi at all. 

Edited August 30, 2023 by jdawgie.1835

[jdawgie.1835]

On 8/28/2023 at 10:22 AM, Endorphin.9147 said:

I dont think ranger is bugged. I think just some coefficients were overlooked along with dmg mods of things like sic em for soulbeast. Ranger has always had ways to stack a lot of dmg modifiers onto itself. The problem people also have is compared to other specs that do the same thing dont have as strong of a utility to survive when pressured.

That being said, power soulbeasts can still die super easily outside of their combos. More than one person just need to treat them like other glass specs and hard focus them as soon as they enter a fight like they would vs a power chrono or a gunflame warrior.

10/10