nerf bladesworn warrior OP sustain

[arazoth.7290]

They can litarly run full glass traited build, but aren't glass canon at all. They have too high sustain to be 1v1 immortal while outputing tons od damage without almost getting scarred. Broken builds like these shouldn't exist, ontop of using relic of defender to make them even more immortal..

 

Edit: this is pvp related, made it in wrong section 🤦

Edited September 3, 2023 by arazoth.7290

[Leo G.4501]

Is it Relic of the Defender that is OP or Bladesworn?

I won't argue that the heal is overblown tho. Typically, the blocks are supposed to overcome the drawbacks of their 'burst' skills.

[Knighthonor.4061]

you cant dish out damage equal to or greater than 5% of their health?

[arazoth.7290]

30 minutes ago, Leo G.4501 said:

Is it Relic of the Defender that is OP or Bladesworn?

I won't argue that the heal is overblown tho. Typically, the blocks are supposed to overcome the drawbacks of their 'burst' skills.

Bladesworn on its own already, but such relics just adds even more it already has. Because of both combined it becomes immortal. Bit yea even without the relic, the self sustain is still pretty busted 

[arazoth.7290]

12 minutes ago, Knighthonor.4061 said:

you cant dish out damage equal to or greater than 5% of their health?

it wasn't only about the relic. It is about adding up on already really high sustain while traiting full damage

[pninak.1069]

but it affects mostly the defensive traitline, correct? and unlike the other specs bs has to do more investment to get the full effect of adrenalin health. only thing I could see them do is line them up antiproportionally so that the higher the charge the more stacks you get with half ot the full charge yielding 1 stack only. this way the higher the charge and the better the gameplay would be rewarded. ofc compared to that spb and berserker have easy access to the full effect.

[Myror.7521]

I agree that Bladesworn is omegatanky atm. But also its just the only thing it does rn ..... been unkillable in 1v1s xD. It for real does nothing more than that ^^

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

Remove the ammo from Combat Stimulant and it will lose a great deal of sustain without crippling it.

[Dirame.8521]

3 hours ago, Myror.7521 said:

I agree that Bladesworn is omegatanky atm. But also its just the only thing it does rn ..... been unkillable in 1v1s xD. It for real does nothing more than that ^^

We are quite brilliant at interrupting rezzes though. I love'em for that.

[KryTiKaL.3125]

5 hours ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Remove the ammo from Combat Stimulant and it will lose a great deal of sustain without crippling it.

Possibly too heavy handed. I don't actually see them surviving much if they do that, nor do I trust ANet enough to suggest doing that because I foresee them turning it into an excuse to return Tactical Reload to its prior state of refreshing ammo charges on any skill with them to "compensate".

If anything the Relic itself creates the problem and would thus need to be where the solution is applied, because it isn't just the fact that Bladesworn can actively pop Aegis to trigger the Relic, its that there are multiple classes that do this and it can be similarly "taken advantage of" by them if it already hasn't been. A 1000 initial heal (assuming roughly 20k health) every 5 seconds, with subsequent 800, 600, 400 and 200 heals (total 3000 health) across the downscaled healing over that 5 seconds...is a lot.

Lets not fall into the trap that is ANet's MO where there is an issue something directly creates but then they take a complete detour from the objective and don't apply a solution that actually addresses the problem. As they have done, at this point, countless times with Warrior alone, not counting other classes; Mirage had a rough go of it with only 1 dodge because for some reason ANet didn't realize, even though it was outright pointed out to them numerous times on this forum "Hey, maybe the fact that Mirages being able to activate Mirage Cloak while otherwise being CC'd is the issue" which it was...took them literal years to figure that out, or at the very least apply the change which is not exactly acceptable.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

4 hours ago, KryTiKaL.3125 said:

Possibly too heavy handed. I don't actually see them surviving much if they do that, nor do I trust ANet enough to suggest doing that because I foresee them turning it into an excuse to return Tactical Reload to its prior state of refreshing ammo charges on any skill with them to "compensate".

If anything the Relic itself creates the problem and would thus need to be where the solution is applied, because it isn't just the fact that Bladesworn can actively pop Aegis to trigger the Relic, its that there are multiple classes that do this and it can be similarly "taken advantage of" by them if it already hasn't been. A 1000 initial heal (assuming roughly 20k health) every 5 seconds, with subsequent 800, 600, 400 and 200 heals (total 3000 health) across the downscaled healing over that 5 seconds...is a lot.

Lets not fall into the trap that is ANet's MO where there is an issue something directly creates but then they take a complete detour from the objective and don't apply a solution that actually addresses the problem. As they have done, at this point, countless times with Warrior alone, not counting other classes; Mirage had a rough go of it with only 1 dodge because for some reason ANet didn't realize, even though it was outright pointed out to them numerous times on this forum "Hey, maybe the fact that Mirages being able to activate Mirage Cloak while otherwise being CC'd is the issue" which it was...took them literal years to figure that out, or at the very least apply the change which is not exactly acceptable.

Perhaps. But Bladesworn had high sustain levels prior to the relic. Combat Stimulant needs to not have charges, but DSD or triggerguard need more stability if that happens.

[Ronnie Hu.1694]

Why cant warrior have some fun now? Leave us alone pls

[Widebody.5071]

Another hit piece cause someone read something they didn't like. It's not a coincidence that suddenly a group of folks just decide Bladesworn need a sustain nerf all of a sudden. Hang in there guys with the combined experience between you all... I'm sure you can theory craft a solution without altering any classes and adding to the games' troubles.

[KryTiKaL.3125]

1 hour ago, Widebody.5071 said:

Another hit piece cause someone read something they didn't like. It's not a coincidence that suddenly a group of folks just decide Bladesworn need a sustain nerf all of a sudden. Hang in there guys with the combined experience between you all... I'm sure you can theory craft a solution without altering any classes and adding to the games' troubles.

Well as I stated already in my post it isn't an issue that is actually with Bladesworn at all in this particular case, its an issue with how the Relic of the Defender is interacting with it. That needs to get tuned down. Outside of that Bladesworn's sustain hasn't been too over-bearing for a while now.

[pninak.1069]

the reilc itself has already an internal nerf with lower percentage healed per block. and also you overlook other classes that also have strong and long blocks . . . mesmer, daredevil, ranger . . . guardian ofc. if it is a problem of the relic itself they could just remove it then ppl would complain about the next relic til we end up at the monotone pvp matches that we had before the expansion.

[KryTiKaL.3125]

2 hours ago, pninak.1069 said:

the reilc itself has already an internal nerf with lower percentage healed per block. and also you overlook other classes that also have strong and long blocks . . . mesmer, daredevil, ranger . . . guardian ofc. if it is a problem of the relic itself they could just remove it then ppl would complain about the next relic til we end up at the monotone pvp matches that we had before the expansion.

Removal of the Relic is yet another extreme solution that wouldn't be necessary, it just needs to be tuned down so as to not make such classes that can take advantage of its effect have over bearing self sustain.

Also lets be honest, its Conquest, it is and has been monotone for quite some time...that isn't going to change unless they do some adjustment to the actual gamemode, even though I know its akin to sacrilege to even suggest that Conquest is an outdated mess of a competitive gamemode with all of the AoE, Boon and Power "creep" this game has gone through over the years, but that is another topic for another time and another place.

[pninak.1069]

I don't think there is a clear solution this. the problem might not even be one to begin with or the problem lies somewhere else. All I know is if you make the relic unusable or fall out of favor then overall meta gonna be cut down even fewer relics making it even easier to set the foundation for a small part of the relics to actually be useful for the playerbase. all it changes is the setup to smth slightly different which might even make the problem worse.

[KryTiKaL.3125]

21 minutes ago, pninak.1069 said:

I don't think there is a clear solution this. the problem might not even be one to begin with or the problem lies somewhere else. All I know is if you make the relic unusable or fall out of favor then overall meta gonna be cut down even fewer relics making it even easier to set the foundation for a small part of the relics to actually be useful for the playerbase. all it changes is the setup to smth slightly different which might even make the problem worse.

The Relics are new, they are shifting playstyles a bit but that doesn't mean they shouldn't be tuned, especially when there are a few that are creating some overbearing builds that have not been healthy in the past in other incarnations or have made some even more so. I have seen far too many Thieves in WvW recently just rocking Relic of the Daredevil and just outright spamming crits, or Relic of the Defender providing probably more than healthy sustain to classes that have enough Blocks (either through Aegis or directly from Block skills) that they can just cycle through. Those are just two, I imagine there are others I just haven't heard about yet or experienced in the capacities in which people cheese them.

Also lets be honest, more needs to be done in this game for meta to actually shift in any meaningful capacity, all Relics have done so far is nudge it a little to the left but ultimately the same or similar builds are still strong and possibly were just made stronger in certain examples.

[pninak.1069]

if the rune system hadn't been reworked we wouldn'T have this issue. overall I think the balance is busted anyways since everytime they remove dmg they seem to add more on top later. like compare virtuoso pre expansion to post expansion. it has a netwin of 2 second block(counting in the first before deja vu already).  herald and scourge didn't need that much boon duration. hammer tempest has one of the highest dmg reductions in the game that can be upkept without issues. I think sometimes the playerbase is just oblivious to good builds because they stick to benchmarks rather than buildcrafting. I am surprised that they took out the sanctuary rune bonus tho. thought hardly ppl used it. what's also weird is that some former rune bonuses also got buffed like the quickness buff for wells.

we can be lucky it heals percentage rather than a flat amount as it aswell could surpass 5%. if take a closer look at the relic too it is obvious the weapon system is at fault. before you had a rather balanced approach with limited cc and defensive capabilities now you got both without trading in smth in return. as a gw1 player this is even more awkward as I play teambuilds that are minmaxed leading ot enemies constantly being knockdown without a chance to even do smth and that in a big aoe. I am always amazed at how close gw1 and 2 seem to be balance philosophywise. they wanted a different approach yet ended at the same result.