Your most hated specs to fight against?

[Zekent.3652]

2 hours ago, kash.9213 said:

I haven't played my Deadeye in a while. Have Anet re-added reveal removal to the Elite skill?

My bad, yes they removed it and still removed.

Thanks they did, it was dumb.

Edited September 14, 2023 by Zizekent.2398

[Invictorum.7643]

3 hours ago, Zizekent.2398 said:

so much mobility

Ranger, guardian, and dagger ele have better mobility 

Edit: should note that I mean Willbender guard, not core/DH/FB

 

3 hours ago, Zizekent.2398 said:

instant port bursts and stealth

Mesmer does this too. And willbender does the insta port bursting just as well, if not better.

 

3 hours ago, Zizekent.2398 said:

who even needs to be tanky when you have such GOOD resources

Because once you actually catch the thief, they pop like a balloon. 

Edited September 14, 2023 by Invictorum.7643
Noting subclasses

[Zekent.3652]

41 minutes ago, Invictorum.7643 said:

Ranger, guardian, and dagger ele have better mobility 

Edit: should note that I mean Willbender guard, not core/DH/FB

It's just not true, except maybe willbender and willbender doesnt even has stealth.

 

44 minutes ago, Invictorum.7643 said:

Mesmer does this too. And willbender does the insta port bursting just as well, if not better. 

Not comparing power mesmer to thief, power mesmer runs out of gas faster and is also countered by thief, or willbender that doesnt even has stealth 🗿

(and i'm not even saying this to defend willbender because yes, willbender is broken, but i can see them)

 

48 minutes ago, Invictorum.7643 said:

Because once you actually catch the thief, they pop like a balloon. 

Are you playing or killing 11k hp thieves? As i said in my past comment, if a thief died, is because THEY wanted to, honestly, this class has such a good mobility + stealth spam to disengage that if you died, it was 100% your mistake, specially if it was against melee builds.

And im not even talking about p/p cele/trailblazer condi thief yet 💀

If you wanna discuss something, at least quote the whole comment and not small out of context parts of a comment. It's just for a better communication i promise.

[Leger.3724]

15 hours ago, TheGrimm.5624 said:

WvW players are all about the randomness that other player bring, how does this result?

Because the sign of a healthy MMO is a strong end game pve community. A sign of a good combat system is a healthy pvp scene. This game has neither.

If you want something specific - good combat should be approachable and understandable for people. Player skill should be based on a mix of decision making, reaction times and overall tactics/strategy as a player. League of Legends has unique characters each with a unique set of 4 skills. It's a very simplistic top down MOBA. For some context - over 150 million monthly players. 

Lets start off with the in development decision to get rid of monks and try to approach it as "everyone can do mostly everything but especially healing because we don't want people waiting to do content". Clearly defined roles make the game approachable. I think removing a dedicated healing class was a huge mistake from Guild Wars 1 to Guild Wars 2. You noticed ever since with each expansion they've provided monk-ish specializations. Druid, Tempest, Fire Brand. It just gets way too complicated for a new player because there's no straightforward answer. "I like supporting my team, what do I play?", "I like DPSing, what do I play?". Too much choice can be a bad thing. The game started with a lot of meaningless choice and then it overwhelmed you with choice that mattered at the launch of HoT and going forward. But it wasn't clear choices and understandings it was kind of "you need concentration gear to bring alacrity or quickness and you'll be our support and maybe a heal/support where we stand together and you aoe heal". The monk in Guild Wars 1 was a clear choice. It was understandable and it required a lot of skill. It was fun. And that's gone. They removed it to save on wait times. 

Another problem I hinted up above with League of Legends is the complexity. Guild Wars 2 has slowly creeped into creating a typical MMO skillbar where many if not all specializations have 20+ skills available within combat and then many of those skills have interactions among each other and with other ally skills.  But it's worse because it's on top of action combat, combo fields and other stuff. Finally there are consumables to maintain, complex stat distributions.  It's complex and it's a management game like an RTS and RTSes are incredibly unpopular right now in the general gaming space. Now compare to League of Legends. 4 unique skills. 2 skills the player can choose from a small pool of ~8(?), you're gradually introduced to your 4 unique skills within a match as you level them up, you have 7 item slots to purchase items and upgrade them over the course of the game. It's very simple. Simple is good. Look at the other big pvp games - Fortnite, Call of Duty, Counterstrike, Fortnite. All very simple concepts.

A third probably is the general clunkiness, the lack of direct counters, the lack of thought into point and click vs skill shot vs aoe and the general visual clutter. It doesn't look or feel particularly good. It's not like Guild Wars 1 where you're a monk and you infuse health with your quick fingers and save your teammates life.  You don't body block the flag stand and get a morale boost. You don't get that key interrupt as a ranger/mesmer to swing the momentum in the fight. Guild Wars 2 is cluttered, clunky and doesn't give good feedback (positive or negative).

Anyways I just feel overall Guild Wars 2 hasn't seen more success because of its combat approach since it was in development. Heart of Thorns and subsequent expansions have only added more to the problems described above.

If you like it, you like it and that's fine. But I was hoping for a bigger game popular among more people and I really do believe one of the major reason it's not is because of the combat.

Edited September 14, 2023 by Leger.3724

[kash.9213]

24 minutes ago, Zizekent.2398 said:

It's just not true, except maybe willbender and willbender doesnt even has stealth.

 

Not comparing power mesmer to thief, power mesmer runs out of gas faster and is also countered by thief, or willbender that doesnt even has stealth 🗿

(and i'm not even saying this to defend willbender because yes, willbender is broken, but i can see them)

 

Are you playing or killing 11k hp thieves? As i said in my past comment, if a thief died, is because THEY wanted to, honestly, this class has such a good mobility + stealth spam to disengage that if you died, it was 100% your mistake, specially if it was against melee builds.

And im not even talking about p/p cele/trailblazer condi thief yet 💀

If you wanna discuss something, at least quote the whole comment and not small out of context parts of a comment. It's just for a better communication i promise.

We'll await a demo of your perfect WvW session. No dying remember.

[ilMasa.2546]

6 minutes ago, Leger.3724 said:

Because the sign of a healthy MMO is a strong end game pve community. A sign of a good combat system is a healthy pvp scene. This game has neither.

I mean... WoW has a strong endgame pve comunity, but at the same time is bleeding more subs every month to the point that they don't even want to publish the data anymore.
And imo this BS "eNd gAmE" mentality , that has spread in recent years, is the issue.
Why Vanilla is seen as the best version of WoW?
Nobody will ever tell you about endgame raiding when talking about vanilla WoW, but most people will remember the myriad of things during the leveling phase, because the endgame was just the icing on the cake, but to get to eat that cake you had a long and difficult leveling process that really tasted like a long journey.

The goal of a mmorpg should be to keep a player logged in as much as possible. But you can't bet everything on one single aspect of a game and equally you can't use just that one aspect to define the health level.

A Healthy pvp scene only reflect the quality of balancing in the game.
A game can have an amazing and fun combat system,but the moment the balance fails, it doesn't matter anymore how good or fun the combat is: if it's unbalanced in the long run you won't have fun anymore.

Why did the E-sport failed? Cos even tho the combat system was good and intresting,the balancing was poor and the META was trash (condi bunkers)
You say "A sign of a good combat system is a healthy pvp scene",i say a sign of a healthy pvp scene is the lack of a meta.
What is the meta? it is the signal that some spells, specs and/or abilities work better than others, aka the moment you have something that perform better compared to other things ,you have no balance.

Also I don't understand what benefit it brings to analyze and compare the combat system of a moba with a mmorpg: they are 2 different things.

Specifically LOL: it has the worst balance regarding champions and matchmaking. 

[Invictorum.7643]

4 hours ago, Zizekent.2398 said:

It's just not true, except maybe willbender and willbender doesnt even has stealth.

 

Not comparing power mesmer to thief, power mesmer runs out of gas faster and is also countered by thief, or willbender that doesnt even has stealth 🗿

(and i'm not even saying this to defend willbender because yes, willbender is broken, but i can see them)

 

Are you playing or killing 11k hp thieves? As i said in my past comment, if a thief died, is because THEY wanted to, honestly, this class has such a good mobility + stealth spam to disengage that if you died, it was 100% your mistake, specially if it was against melee builds.

And im not even talking about p/p cele/trailblazer condi thief yet 💀

If you wanna discuss something, at least quote the whole comment and not small out of context parts of a comment. It's just for a better communication i promise.

Genuine question, have you played thief in WvW for an extended period of time? Because as of late, Thief has been steadily outclassed in most of its previously strongest areas, due to power creep from new elite specs, relics, and other factors.

Willbender genuinely has better burst movement and burst damage, while also packing the sustain that Thief so sorely lacks. Thief has stealth for its own form of sustain through obscuration. And it's not like they're unhittable in stealth either. One strong condi bomb on a thief? Gonna take repeatedly stealthing/unstealthing to clear if theyre running SA, and most of the time you can't do it fast enough. 

Power mesmer may gas out faster, but it accelerates at a much higher pace, especially with the new Weaponmaster stuff. 25 Vuln stacks in an opening hit, followed by shatters? Hurts like heck, man. I will admit that thief normally does counter mesmer, but with how strong Cele builds are, as well as the ability to boonstack to an insane level has severely mitigated what burst can do. Not to mention that Mirage can just laugh and make their clones evade if they're running Infinite Horizon.

 

And on the 11k health bit, please. It's genuinely easy for almost any build to be able to do 11k damage in VERY quick order.  Hell, I've seen Cele builds able to do that much in the span of a few seconds.

One final note, for P/P Cele DD. One target painter ruins their entire day. There isnt enough burst damage to stop you from using one real quick. (I will say though, let that build die. It's a blot on the class)

[Esufer.8762]

9 hours ago, Leger.3724 said:

Anyways I just feel overall Guild Wars 2 hasn't seen more success because of its combat approach since it was in development.

Meanwhile arenanet having to turn more servers on to ensure the Secrets of the Obscure launch went smoothly due to unexpected demand.
Remember, don't take what you read on the forums as representative.

[Palikka.8249]

Thiefs since perma stealth is dumb mechanic. Not everyone has reveal, so you are basicly left there to wait opponent to do mistake. Its dumb desing and new relics makes thiefs even better.

[Scolix.4879]

Anything that can spam stealth. There is no mechanic that i hate more than stealth in pvp environment it just sucks all the fun out of the fight when you have to fight against something like that douple that if the same class/spec has tons of teleports on top of constant stealthing.

[kroxx.1032]

bladesworm is insane broken and kitten to duel

[TheGrimm.5624]

On 9/7/2023 at 5:37 AM, Grand Marshal.4098 said:

What's your list?

Grand, this list has been interesting since it has been varied. After it runs longer may need to count out the various elites/cores to see how they totaled overall before we hit the next balance patch.

[dead.7638]

Thief is a gimmicky class in all forms.   Takes very little anything to play it at a proficient level.   Has handicap mechanics galore basically handing you any fight if you play with any intelligence.   Learn to dodge thieves or get one shot, losers.

[TrollingDemigod.3041]

On 9/15/2023 at 12:10 AM, Invictorum.7643 said:

Ranger, guardian, and dagger ele have better mobility 

Edit: should note that I mean Willbender guard, not core/DH/FB

Mesmer does this too. And willbender does the insta port bursting just as well, if not better.

Because once you actually catch the thief, they pop like a balloon. 

Do you play this game or what? Ranger will never outrun teef, Willyblender will lose in long run, Ele will never catch up to teef.
Virtuoso can burst high, but that's not the biggest problem of Mesmer. In case of Guardian as a whole, it's still much more managable with it's burst than any teef, period.
You only can catch bad teefs and they may or may not pop like a balloon, depends on luck and nothing beyond that. Good teef will only die if it's wants to be dead.
You're playing chess while fighting teefs predicting 318756t18763 possibilities, meanwhile teefs flip a coin for it's actions.

[Lana Del Bae.7156]

ending this discussion once and for all

most based builds:

power mesmer, fa weaver, power specter, every variant of thief besides pistol pistol cele

least based builds:

everything else

 

Edited October 29, 2023 by Lana Del Bae.7156

[Player.2475]

1. Rifle deadeyes: F1: 2 2 2 -> dodge -> 1. If it succeeds "Wow I'm the best player WvW has ever seen". If it fails -> dodge -> 4 4 4 -> dodge ->  4 4 -> Shadowstep, repeat till you're out of combat.

2. D/P Daredevil: Same as Deadeye, but 5 2 F1 1 instead and using different skills to run away.

The most annoying part about thieves is they will usually fail to kill you and reset the fight 10 times till they get lucky. I don't even bother fighting these if I'm not running a burst spec.

3. Willbenders: Permanent uptime of every boon in the game, can engage and disengage whenever they feel like it, while also hitting like a truck. I switch specs to a pewpew when I see them approach and pray I will one shot them before they apply their boons.

4. Cele Catalysts, but also other ele specs: The same reasons as WB, but tankier and unlike Willbenders, a decent one can tank 3-4 people like it's no one's business. If you're not sure if you're fighting an elementalist, count the amount of invul, block, evade, etc. you see in a minute. If it's over 100, you're fighting an elementalist. Or a virtuoso.

5. Reapers: Every noob's favourite new toy. Unless you waste your evades on avoiding weak attacks that generate life force, they will have free 50k health every 10 seconds, and you end up kiting someone that can't drop you below 90% for 3 minutes.

6. Soulbeasts: Same reason as thief. As soon as you touch them or they fail to pewpew you: About Face -> Swoop -> Swoop -> Swoop

Edited September 18, 2023 by Player.2475

[kash.9213]

On 9/17/2023 at 11:57 AM, TrollingDemigod.3041 said:

Do you play this game or what? Ranger will never outrun teef, Willyblender will lose in long run, Ele will never catch up to teef.
Virtuoso can burst high, but that's not the biggest problem of Mesmer. In case of Guardian as a whole, it's still much more managable with it's burst than any teef, period.
You only can catch bad teefs and they may or may not pop like a balloon, depends on luck and nothing beyond that. Good teef will only die if it's wants to be dead.
You're playing chess while fighting teefs predicting 318756t18763 possibilities, meanwhile teefs flip a coin for it's actions.

Once again, demonstrate.