Nerf boonball!

[manu.7539]

I just came back to work and wanted to have some wvw fun as usual but we had that little srge boonball on our ebg keep at wg. Got so disgusted to waste my time and fun I logged out. Is there anything normal to see 6-7 guys stalling 15 others with this kind of stupidly over tanky comp? Jesus Christ anet, wake up!

[XenesisII.1540]

🤏💳

🤏 https://www.guildwars2.com/en/secrets-of-the-obscure/

🤏https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Relic_of_Cerus

💳👉🎆🎉🎊

[manu.7539]

Ah, yeah, relic of cerus looks like a nice option if many players can use it.

Still think something is wrong with boons, some builds and squad comp provide way too many perma boons.

[XenesisII.1540]

7 hours ago, manu.7539 said:

Ah, yeah, relic of cerus looks like a nice option if many players can use it.

Still think something is wrong with boons, some builds and squad comp provide way too many perma boons.

A lot of us don't disagree, but it's no longer a discussion. Boons won, strips lost, blame anet and the guilds they run with, and get carried by it. 🤷‍♂️

Edited September 26, 2023 by XenesisII.1540

[senftube.6081]

Anet does not care. They luv Boonball and they luv cele.

[ArchonWing.9480]

It is dumb, but if you can't kill them with over 2x the numbers it means that you people aren't playing smart, and probably tunneling into a single target.  And because I am in the aforementioned matchup, I know this is a common occurrence.

In general these things in small scale lack ranged pressure. And usually their damage is mostly condis so just run an anti-condi build. In general if you cloud at 900+ range, you should be able to keep them away indefinitely.

The most annoying thing though, is the ease of projectile hate. This means you need ground targeted aoes or unblockables. Yea, I've been complaining about that for years, but alas.

If you really just want to get rid of them, this is nothing a few ballistas or shield gens can't fix. I would imagine half the pugs are useless and would be better on siege anyways. Do not build arrow carts. It is a waste of supply and tickles people even on mounts.

I mean, I'm not saying fighting these sorts of groups (especially with even numbers) isn't a dumb experience. There's a been a huge rash of mini boonballs lately but you can still bypass it if you have the numbers and siege

edit: Boo p2w relics ig.

edit 2: Though to be fair, the easiest solution is for you to also switch to a boon support vomit build too. Or if someone in your team does that. However, I do believe this is the worst option when it comes to fun and hate doing it myself. I do it if things get out of hand.

Edited September 25, 2023 by ArchonWing.9480

[Junkpile.7439]

Wonder who Einstein got this ide that game should be played all boons on whole time. I would think that would be much more interesting if players would have to think when to use boons.

[kiwituatara.6053]

 

4 minutes ago, Junkpile.7439 said:

Wonder who Einstein got this ide that game should be played all boons on whole time. I would think that would be much more interesting if players would have to think when to use boons.

Yup. Vanilla gw2 was good cuz there was no concentration stats.

[ArchonWing.9480]

36 minutes ago, Junkpile.7439 said:

players would have to think

How dare you expect me to think? Just gimme the shiny already.

[subversiontwo.7501]

48 minutes ago, kiwituatara.6053 said:

 

Yup. Vanilla gw2 was good cuz there was no concentration stats.

Wdym. There were raw %time stats back then on things like plat dubloons. The game has never been without boon duration.

Plus, looking at both recent videos from srge and rL, the issue was never the balance between damage and tank but rather between being organised and unorganised, even more as more people these days are playing all kinds of uncommittant ranged projectile builds with pets. You could easily break the content in both those videos by something as simple as stacking a couple of berserkers in a party and arcing together. If that is the bar that brings all these tears to the forum, it is more embarrassing than I had assumed.

I think I've said it elsewhere but it is worth repeating: You don't have to play tanky or with boons to play together or as a group, you can easily build something together around something else (a certain way to do damage etc.). You choose not to and that is your main problem. It's not boons, tanks or condition damage. You and the people in those videos are not playing together or committing to do damage. That's playing right into those guilds' hands.

[kiwituatara.6053]

2 minutes ago, subversiontwo.7501 said:

Wdym. There were raw %time stats back then on things like plat dubloons. The game has never been without boon duration.

Plus, looking at both recent videos from srge and rL, the issue was never the balance between damage and tank but rather between being organised and unorganised, even more as more people these days are playing all kinds of uncommittant ranged projectile builds with pets. You could easily break the content in both those videos by something as simple as stacking a couple of berserkers in a party and arcing together. If that is the bar that brings all these tears to the forum, it is more embarrassing than I had assumed.

I think I've said it elsewhere but it is worth repeating: You don't have to play tanky or with boons to play together or as a group, you can easily build something together around something else (a certain way to do damage etc.). You choose not to and that is your main problem. It's not boons, tanks or condition damage. You and the people in those videos are not playing together or committing to do damage. That's playing right into those guilds' hands.

I meant what I meant. Boon duration was only accessible through plat doubloons, maybe giver's stats and some runes , sure, but you had to sacrifice a lot of basic stats for boon duration and it didn't add up to such extreme %s

[subversiontwo.7501]

I'm sure you did. I too sometimes get irritated with the rebranding of things. I mainly just wanted to point out that it was pretty common to see eg., Guard builds run Cleric-Soldier mixes with dubloons before Cele came out, while most people seem only to remember everyone doing damage and healing solely from blasts. Though I'm sure you remember that too.

[DeceiverX.8361]

23 minutes ago, subversiontwo.7501 said:

I'm sure you did. I too sometimes get irritated with the rebranding of things. I mainly just wanted to point out that it was pretty common to see eg., Guard builds run Cleric-Soldier mixes with dubloons before Cele came out, while most people seem only to remember everyone doing damage and healing solely from blasts. Though I'm sure you remember that too.

 

I mean yeah, but Soldier's/Sentinel's Plat Doubloon builds only had 18% boon duration and sacrificed all six runes and rune effects for it.

Equip Wanderer's gear with Leadership runes and it's 90% with a similar stat profile.

And boons themselves were also much harder to come by and generally much shorter duration than what we have now.

While boon duration effects existed back then, let's not pretend they were even remotely comparable.  Half the time, doubloons were for swiftness and prot for guardians and that was about it.

For most players, these sources may as well not have existed.

[XenesisII.1540]

The obvious answer to the boon spam is the boon strips. But wvw is now balanced around those groups.

I don't know where anet got the idea to nerf boon strips, maybe they were told it's "too effective" for those top groups to use on the lesser groups, so nerfing it would make it easier for the lesser groups. Less random boon loss to worry about, the longer those groups can stand up in a fight. But that also nerfs the tools everyone was using on those groups. Not to mention their mission in pve to make sure groups have boons up 100% of the time, but even the pve'ers are hating the quickness and alacrity spam.

Anet doesn't expect you to use boon strips to solve that problem, they expect everyone to organize into raid groups and run the same meta to counter, because those groups advised on it. Maybe they thought casuals and pugs would be pushed to run in groups instead, but not everyone wants to be a squad or meta slave so it really solved nothing, but makes those top groups stronger.

Solo players bring two things to a group fight, strips and damage, and BOTH were nerfed! While more boons were added, you get a quickness, and you get a quickness, and you get an alacrity, and you get an alacrity... and those groups keep their super tank advantage running with numbers. It's just hilarious, all those years ago in the pvp seasons tank specs like chrono were nerfed because it made combat "boring", everyone hates tank specs in spvp, you can't even run cele, but wvw it's celebrated and balanced around it. Then we get the groups that come in here bragging about beating twice the pugs with their 4 support 1 dps boon ball. Stupendous challenge there. 😏

Might as well get rid of boon strips and give everyone Elixir of Ambition. Kitten why even let people play different  custom specs, just force meta only specs when you enter wvw if all you want is to balance and make everyone play like that. 🤷‍♂️ Alright got the last boon rant off my chest, prepare for more delightful boon strip nerfs tomorrow. 🤭

[Zebulon.1850]

Yeah, this is exactly what Anet wants, unfortunately. Maybe if they reverted/updated spellbreaker winds, there might be a counter to nonsense like that.

With the current state of winds, you would probably need 2-3 stacked up to even make a dent in the boon spam I saw there.

For reference, I tested jumping into that group while they were sitting in a lord room with scourge, used GS 4, corrupt well, elite and cerus and didn't see that they really even lost any boons. And that's 4 skills ticking almost at once, so 4 boons removed per sec.

[Dawdler.8521]

8 hours ago, XenesisII.1540 said:

🤏💳

🤏 https://www.guildwars2.com/en/secrets-of-the-obscure/

🤏https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Relic_of_Cerus

💳👉🎆🎉🎊

And you're paying for such a nerf then since we've seen those 8ish guild boonballs tank 20+ before soto was even known 😛

[XenesisII.1540]

1 hour ago, Dawdler.8521 said:

And you're paying for such a nerf then since we've seen those 8ish guild boonballs tank 20+ before soto was even known 😛

Haven't bought the last two expansions, so haven't paid for anything. 🤷‍♂️

[Dawdler.8521]

13 minutes ago, XenesisII.1540 said:

Haven't bought the last two expansions, so haven't paid for anything. 🤷‍♂️

See thats probably why Anet cant afford to balance WvW.

[TheGrimm.5624]

Just now, Dawdler.8521 said:

See thats probably why Anet cant afford to balance WvW.

lol, nope, I have the whale aspect covered over time for a number of my snarky peeps, including you shark teethed short peeps. Just sayin.

[Thomas.2564]

10 hours ago, senftube.6081 said:

Anet does not care. They luv Boonball and they luv cele.

U ever seen anet devs play wvw? 

Do that, and u'll understand why they love boonballer meta 😅

[kiwituatara.6053]

9 hours ago, subversiontwo.7501 said:

I'm sure you did. I too sometimes get irritated with the rebranding of things. I mainly just wanted to point out that it was pretty common to see eg., Guard builds run Cleric-Soldier mixes with dubloons before Cele came out, while most people seem only to remember everyone doing damage and healing solely from blasts. Though I'm sure you remember that too.

Yeah, the old way was way more balanced. It's so easy to achieve 100% boon duration now. Before, even getting 50% was difficult and there were much bigger trade-offs.

[subversiontwo.7501]

3 hours ago, kiwituatara.6053 said:

Yeah, the old way was way more balanced. It's so easy to achieve 100% boon duration now. Before, even getting 50% was difficult and there were much bigger trade-offs.

I don't disagree with any of that. Of the recent remarks here, the only thing I'd see quite different is Deceiver's point about base boon times being raised. I mostly see them as lowered. There's also the additional spam to consider. However, that needs to be compared to the amount of strips too and back in those early days the amount of groups who had even figured out that strips were quite valuable were few and far apart. If I look at old videos of my own guilds we tend to have quite full bars of boons with little risk of losing them in most fights. That's what brings us back here. There are easily ways to break groups who more or less utilise boons to sustain by simply coordinating damage. My point also stands the same as from my first post: This is less about boons and more about solos trying to match content to groups, without really adapting in any meaningful way. It's easy to blame boons though (or toughness, or downstate, or reflects or whatever else is common).

Instead of nerfing boons, maybe build some proper parties and see what can be done with available tools. At least with regards to the kind of "boonballs" described in this thread.

I'd be more ears when it comes to boons (or cele) in smaller solo settings but once it comes to groups there are so many more options available to deal with them but most of that entales adapting and taking some risks - which is what this game mode is supposedly about.

Edited September 26, 2023 by subversiontwo.7501

[XenesisII.1540]

6 hours ago, Dawdler.8521 said:

See thats probably why Anet cant afford to balance WvW.

lol their misbalancing and neglect of wvw is why I'm purchase protesting them in the first place. 😏

[God.2708]

33 minutes ago, subversiontwo.7501 said:

I don't disagree with any of that. Of the recent remarks here, the only thing I'd see quite different is Deceiver's point about base boon times being raised. I mostly see them as lowered. There's also the additional spam to consider. However, that needs to be compared to the amount of strips too and back in those early days the amount of groups who had even figured out that strips were quite valuable were few and far apart. If I look at old videos of my own guilds we tend to have quite full bars of boons with little risk of losing them in most fights. That's what brings us back here. There are easily ways to break groups who more or less utilise boons to sustain by simply coordinating damage. My point also stands the same as from my first post: This is less about boons and more about solos trying to match content to groups, without really adapting in any meaningful way. It's easy to blame boons though (or toughness, or downstate, or reflects or whatever else is common).

Instead of nerfing boons, maybe build some proper parties and see what can be done with available tools. At least with regards to the kind of "boonballs" described in this thread.

I'd be more ears when it comes to boons (or cele) in smaller solo settings but once it comes to groups there are so many more options available to deal with them but most of that entales adapting and taking some risks - which is what this game mode is supposedly about.

Honestly there are only three standout differences between then and now.

1. Quickness being readily available. A casualty of HoT raids and PvE. It has shrunk in availability a lot but is still in spades over how much you use to get.

2. Alacrity existing. I generally find this to be a net neutral though, since defensive and offensive both get CDs reduces. (unless you aren't bringing defensive along....)

3. Might being 25 stackable easily. This is usually where the big divide in solos and groups is too. Way back you'd blast fire fields to open a fight with 25 stacks and would basically never see that number of stacks again. Now they've applied duration reduction pretty hard across the board with the great pvp patch, which hit solos ability to stack and maintain it. But groups have no problem capping it every spike, and dps that can apply lots of little stacks to themselves (and/or others) are generally much more favored in group play.

This is also where a lot of different Cele builds strength comes from as without being able to achieve 25 might easily they'd have near no kill potential and would be quite boring to play and quickly 'fall' out of the meta in roaming.

---

Most other boons are at a similar level of application/duration. The frequency of which is easily offset by the massive increase in strips.

[kiwituatara.6053]

1 hour ago, subversiontwo.7501 said:

I don't disagree with any of that. Of the recent remarks here, the only thing I'd see quite different is Deceiver's point about base boon times being raised. I mostly see them as lowered. There's also the additional spam to consider. However, that needs to be compared to the amount of strips too and back in those early days the amount of groups who had even figured out that strips were quite valuable were few and far apart. If I look at old videos of my own guilds we tend to have quite full bars of boons with little risk of losing them in most fights. That's what brings us back here. There are easily ways to break groups who more or less utilise boons to sustain by simply coordinating damage. My point also stands the same as from my first post: This is less about boons and more about solos trying to match content to groups, without really adapting in any meaningful way. It's easy to blame boons though (or toughness, or downstate, or reflects or whatever else is common).

Instead of nerfing boons, maybe build some proper parties and see what can be done with available tools. At least with regards to the kind of "boonballs" described in this thread.

I'd be more ears when it comes to boons (or cele) in smaller solo settings but once it comes to groups there are so many more options available to deal with them but most of that entales adapting and taking some risks - which is what this game mode is supposedly about.

I don’t think anybody here cares about how the meta game plays out and what sort of group comp builds to run to counter boonballs. The bottom line is boonball meta is boring. 
 

Whatever happened to commanders calling out for fire fields or water fields or blast finishers. Everyone is able to pump out so many boons and heals now without working for it.

I think we’ve had boon meta for far too long it’s getting stale. Need to shake things up a bit. Maybe bring back some old plays into the rotation.