Thief is dead.

[Zacchary.6183]

But there is hope! Have you heard of Blue Thief? How about Green Thief? Purple Thief? Did you know that anet actually fixed Thief with the introduction of Weaponmaster? I've been particularly enjoying it now that Keen Observer and Twin Fangs have been combined. Shortbow and Vault go brr now. All of these thieves are pretty kitten tanky too, save for Fixed Thief which just dodges a lot but it makes up for it by hitting for ~20k a pop. Did you know anet added a quickness button to it? You can chunk for 8k minimum but you do it FAS! Blue thief is fun too. I regularly use the Willblender build because it blends my will to play regular thief.

What kind of thief do you like?

Edited October 16, 2023 by Zacchary.6183

[Lithril Ashwalker.6230]

what i like? the original thief -_- i dont even care anymore. failing company is fail. no one listens, laid off the only hope we had on thief forums and now he wont even touch the game. RIP DoubleTap

[Felices Bladewing.3914]

you forgot to mention psionic thief!

Or what most people on the forum would like to see the stealthless thief

[Zacchary.6183]

7 minutes ago, Felices Bladewing.3914 said:

you forgot to mention psionic thief!

Or what most people on the forum would like to see the stealthless thief

dagger go brr

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

I can hear the seething unquelled resentment of people ready to exhume thiefs corpse to give it a beating with their"but stelf 🫣🤓" whine already

[Lithril Ashwalker.6230]

3 hours ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

I can hear the seething unquelled resentment of people ready to exhume thiefs corpse to give it a beating with their"but stelf 🫣🤓" whine already

Way ahead of u. Going to BDO lol

[Doggie.3184]

I know they're planning to give Guardian Dual Pistols with Ricochet because they know guns can't survive without bounce and explosion QoL but don't want Thief to be too fun because they don't want too many people playing it.

Willbender will basically be a god version of pre-nerfed/deleted Dual Pistol Daredevil. Faster, more damage, more AoE, more survivability, more everything.

[Zacchary.6183]

22 hours ago, Doggie.3184 said:

I know they're planning to give Guardian Dual Pistols with Ricochet because they know guns can't survive without bounce and explosion QoL but don't want Thief to be too fun because they don't want too many people playing it.

Willbender will basically be a god version of pre-nerfed/deleted Dual Pistol Daredevil. Faster, more damage, more AoE, more survivability, more everything.

If they do, its going to surprise nobody.

[Puck.3697]

On 10/17/2023 at 2:44 AM, Lithril Ashwalker.6230 said:

Way ahead of u. Going to BDO lol

I'd consider playing BDO if it wasnt p2w 😞 xDD Thief rly considered that bad? pressuming this is concerning WvWvW?

Edited October 18, 2023 by Puck.3697

[Zacchary.6183]

On 10/18/2023 at 2:46 AM, Puck.3697 said:

I'd consider playing BDO if it wasnt p2w 😞 xDD Thief rly considered that bad? pressuming this is concerning WvWvW?

This is all game modes. Its not fun or rewarding anymore to play thief. The profession exists to fill niches and does so poorly. I use my virt if I want damage, my Vind if I want functioning utility or my Weaver if I want some sustain in my gameplay. There is so much contrast between thief and Rev I am almost certain rev is a better thief. As I pointed out in the OP, it is much easier to max out crit rate on a Rev than it is with thief. My vind is in almost full zerk and its low APM with access to generous self-quick and fury, literally only need one button press every 5 seconds to maintain 100% crit rate. Thief? A single fart from a vet is enough to take off 30% of my health and 15% of my crit rate. And "le just dodj" isn't that shrimple.

Virtuoso? That's my raid elite. It's baseline ranged DPS is much better, it has less forced movement, and it isn't filled to the brim with special conditions or setups like you HAVE to flank or you HAVE to be in stealth (at this point I loathe stealth). All you do is slap all the keys and things die.

[xellink.7568]

1 hour ago, Zacchary.6183 said:

This is all game modes. Its not fun or rewarding anymore to play thief. The profession exists to fill niches and does so poorly. I use my virt if I want damage, my Vind if I want functioning utility or my Weaver if I want some sustain in my gameplay. There is so much contrast between thief and Rev I am almost certain rev is a better thief. As I pointed out in the OP, it is much easier to max out crit rate on a Rev than it is with thief. My vind is in almost full zerk and its low APM with access to generous self-quick and fury, literally only need one button press every 5 seconds to maintain 100% crit rate. Thief? A single fart from a vet is enough to take off 30% of my health and 15% of my crit rate. And "le just dodj" isn't that shrimple.

Virtuoso? That's my raid elite. It's baseline ranged DPS is much better, it has less forced movement, and it isn't filled to the brim with special conditions or setups like you HAVE to flank or you HAVE to be in stealth (at this point I loathe stealth). All you do is slap all the keys and things die.

You don't main an espec, you main a class. Thief is BiS for a lot of roles.

1. DD is one of the classes that can solo towers
2. Thief is the only class that can open Samarog's door
3. Thief is one of the best alac dps providers. 
4. Thief is best for Qadim 1 Kiting
5. Thief is best for Qadim Lamp
6. Thief is good for Qadim 2 Kiting, although I feel scourge is the best 
7. Thief can climb up the towers in wvw using shadowsteps
8. Thief can shadowstep up to Tom on fractals (uncategorized) by shadowstepping the ceiling and then porting party members up.
9. Spectre and DD can solo champions. 
10. Thief has one of the highest auto attack builds on dagger. 

The issue with playing thief is that each of this is a different equipment load out, which means you may have to create more than 1 thief, have legendary equipment or buy equipment slots. 

[Antrix.4512]

1 hour ago, xellink.7568 said:

You don't main an espec, you main a class. Thief is BiS for a lot of roles.

1. DD is one of the classes that can solo towers
2. Thief is the only class that can open Samarog's door
3. Thief is one of the best alac dps providers. 
4. Thief is best for Qadim 1 Kiting
5. Thief is best for Qadim Lamp
6. Thief is good for Qadim 2 Kiting, although I feel scourge is the best 
7. Thief can climb up the towers in wvw using shadowsteps
8. Thief can shadowstep up to Tom on fractals (uncategorized) by shadowstepping the ceiling and then porting party members up.
9. Spectre and DD can solo champions. 
10. Thief has one of the highest auto attack builds on dagger. 

The issue with playing thief is that each of this is a different equipment load out, which means you may have to create more than 1 thief, have legendary equipment or buy equipment slots. 

I can only agree, at least in terms of PvE (I hate PvP in any form). I have all template slots for gear and builds purchased on my thief, and they are all filled for various situations. For example, I like the engineer, mesmer, revenant, but darn - I can't play them for more than a couple of hours. The thief, on the other hand, is something unique, and he's far from dead (but you should never, under any circumstances, underestimate ANerf). This class can perform any role and as a healer, it's just delightful and I like it more than all the available healing specs in the game. And the freedom and mobility in the open world - it's something divine. Taking myself as an example, I can say that I can't deal more than 10k DPS as a holosmith, but I don't say that this spec and even more so the class is dead.

[xellink.7568]

21 hours ago, Antrix.4512 said:

I can only agree, at least in terms of PvE (I hate PvP in any form). I have all template slots for gear and builds purchased on my thief, and they are all filled for various situations. For example, I like the engineer, mesmer, revenant, but darn - I can't play them for more than a couple of hours. The thief, on the other hand, is something unique, and he's far from dead (but you should never, under any circumstances, underestimate ANerf). This class can perform any role and as a healer, it's just delightful and I like it more than all the available healing specs in the game. And the freedom and mobility in the open world - it's something divine. Taking myself as an example, I can say that I can't deal more than 10k DPS as a holosmith, but I don't say that this spec and even more so the class is dead.

Oh right, I forgot, thief is one of the best healers in the game. But the learning curve is so high, the gameplay itself is an exposition. The need to change rotation based on what fields are available to blast (fire/water) is too high difficulty for most players out there. The skill ceiling is really high though and offers an amazing opportunity for skill expression and its also one of the few classes that can heal with hybrid stats, eg. celestial, plaguedoctors, like a scourge. 

[Eekasqueak.7850]

I swear I see a thread almost word for word like this in every single class forum.

[MercurialKuroSludge.8974]

32 minutes ago, Eekasqueak.7850 said:

I swear I see a thread almost word for word like this in every single class forum.

Some even take it to the general category itself , like that certain one in sPvP.
But it is hard to ascertain if ppl are huffing copium, or have legitimate criticism about the class, until you see the reactions and comments tho.

[Eekasqueak.7850]

2 minutes ago, MercurialKuroSludge.8974 said:

Some even take it to the general category itself , like that certain one in sPvP.
But it is hard to ascertain if ppl are huffing copium, or have legitimate criticism about the class, until you see the reactions and comments tho.

It's just hard to find coherent criticism with the amount of hyperbole that gets thrown around.

[Antrix.4512]

13 hours ago, xellink.7568 said:

Oh right, I forgot, thief is one of the best healers in the game. But the learning curve is so high, the gameplay itself is an exposition. The need to change rotation based on what fields are available to blast (fire/water) is too high difficulty for most players out there. The skill ceiling is really high though and offers an amazing opportunity for skill expression and its also one of the few classes that can heal with hybrid stats, eg. celestial, plaguedoctors, like a scourge. 

Yeah, Specter is the most "challenging" and very VERY interesting healer with a very high learning curve, and I'm sure that even after a couple of months I'm still learning this spec. But all the hard work pays off handsomely in the end.

Initially, I'd wipe the whole party, but now, with very rare exceptions, EVEN IF someone drops - it's because they ran far away from me, and the situation didn't even allow me to teleport to them, etc. Huge thanks to the guides and an amazing community, especially Lucinellia Lyndra (@Lucinellia.9247?) for the help and guidance on the healing spec.

Edited October 21, 2023 by Antrix.4512

[Zacchary.6183]

On 10/20/2023 at 12:56 AM, xellink.7568 said:

You don't main an espec, you main a class. Thief is BiS for a lot of roles.

1. DD is one of the classes that can solo towers
2. Thief is the only class that can open Samarog's door
3. Thief is one of the best alac dps providers. 
4. Thief is best for Qadim 1 Kiting
5. Thief is best for Qadim Lamp
6. Thief is good for Qadim 2 Kiting, although I feel scourge is the best 
7. Thief can climb up the towers in wvw using shadowsteps
8. Thief can shadowstep up to Tom on fractals (uncategorized) by shadowstepping the ceiling and then porting party members up.
9. Spectre and DD can solo champions. 
10. Thief has one of the highest auto attack builds on dagger. 

The issue with playing thief is that each of this is a different equipment load out, which means you may have to create more than 1 thief, have legendary equipment or buy equipment slots. 

The only thing thief has ever excelled at over other professions was exploiting mechanics, hence your list. Except for maybe 3, its all niche. The last two aren't even special. Soloing X or having comparatively high AA damage isn't exclusive to thief, nor is it indicative of any advantage it may have over other professions. I wouldn't count shadowstepping up anything as some massive advantage either (outside of speedrunning and skipping) since the system has had pathing issues ever since anet changed it years ago.

In fact, thief has been so niche in endgame content for so long that anet had to shoehorn in usefulness to incentivize players into bringing them into raids, for example Raid Stolen Skills added some time after w4. "BiS for kiting" and mechanics in general is the nice way to say least useful on-stack. How often do you hear "I'm going to raid on my thief" over "I'm going to switch to thief for mechanics"? How often do you see a thief in a boonblob that isn't spamming Choking Gas on the enemy boonblob? Or NOT roaming/tapping? Or outside of decap/+1 "roles"? Its rare, at least in my experience. Nobody wants to bring thieves unless they need them and it shows.

Its been like that for years now, alongside the numerous bugs and design flaws anet has yet to address since HoT. Countless requests to bring back Ricochet, make Preparedness baseline, etc. all so thief doesn't feel like it's being funneled to BiS traits just to perform. The lack of representation throughout its entire lifespan which would have helped make changes to the profession more sensible had they experienced the high-effort, low reward gameplay themselves. Even with the weaponmaster powercreep, thief felt like it got a mayo sandwich compared to other professions. At the end of the day, thief is niche and exists for aesthetics. But it stops being fun when you want to be useful outside of its niches.

Edited October 21, 2023 by Zacchary.6183

[Lucy.3728]

I like pistol thief that does dmg and dies less than any thief I tried before (except staff daredevil but that one is too high maintenance for me, or specter that's too much clicking for my taste for not enough dmg output).

I wish thief was dead in wvw. Or reduced to stealthless thief.

All kidding aside, my deadeye thief is the most valuable character on my account (according to gw2efficiency). It stores all my fish and bait and stuff. I had no idea it made my thief so valuable.

I think we should switch to ele. Look this ele rules them all in pvp:

 

[Zacchary.6183]

10 minutes ago, Lucy.3728 said:

All kidding aside, my deadeye thief is the most valuable character on my account (according to gw2efficiency). It stores all my fish and bait and stuff. I had no idea it made my thief so valuable.

You too???

[Lithril Ashwalker.6230]

2 hours ago, Zacchary.6183 said:

The only thing thief has ever excelled at over other professions was exploiting mechanics, hence your list. Except for maybe 3, its all niche. The last two aren't even special. Soloing X or having comparatively high AA damage isn't exclusive to thief, nor is it indicative of any advantage it may have over other professions. I wouldn't count shadowstepping up anything as some massive advantage either (outside of speedrunning and skipping) since the system has had pathing issues ever since anet changed it years ago.

In fact, thief has been so niche in endgame content for so long that anet had to shoehorn in usefulness to incentivize players into bringing them into raids, for example Raid Stolen Skills added some time after w4. "BiS for kiting" and mechanics in general is the nice way to say least useful on-stack. How often do you hear "I'm going to raid on my thief" over "I'm going to switch to thief for mechanics"? How often do you see a thief in a boonblob that isn't spamming Choking Gas on the enemy boonblob? Or NOT roaming/tapping? Or outside of decap/+1 "roles"? Its rare, at least in my experience. Nobody wants to bring thieves unless they need them and it shows.

Its been like that for years now, alongside the numerous bugs and design flaws anet has yet to address since HoT. Countless requests to bring back Ricochet, make Preparedness baseline, etc. all so thief doesn't feel like it's being funneled to BiS traits just to perform. The lack of representation throughout its entire lifespan which would have helped make changes to the profession more sensible had they experienced the high-effort, low reward gameplay themselves. Even with the weaponmaster powercreep, thief felt like it got a mayo sandwich compared to other professions. At the end of the day, thief is niche and exists for aesthetics. But it stops being fun when you want to be useful outside of its niches.

among the many reasons why i locked my account indefinitely

[Jugglemonkey.8741]

Thief is dead. Long live thief. 

[Lithril Ashwalker.6230]

2 hours ago, Jugglemonkey.8741 said:

Thief is dead. Long live thief. 

Suffer nerf after nerf and pointless buffs and still hated by all - This is the way

[Vadar.5724]

I've been noticing that if I look around I rarely see any thieves at all. I might see one other in a 50 man ow squad. If you look around crowded hubs like wizards tower or arboratone, you don't see any. I have played thief enough to have full legendary gear and a high wvw and pvp rank and its just got painful to play over time. Everything is just clunky and badly thought out.

[Lithril Ashwalker.6230]

3 hours ago, Vadar.5724 said:

I've been noticing that if I look around I rarely see any thieves at all. I might see one other in a 50 man ow squad. If you look around crowded hubs like wizards tower or arboratone, you don't see any. I have played thief enough to have full legendary gear and a high wvw and pvp rank and its just got painful to play over time. Everything is just clunky and badly thought out.

I know. I understand. That's why I personally took a break and explored different interests. I made the community to try my best to pull together a bunch of Thieves to see what we could achieve together instead of being stuck into the lonesome play style of a thief of what the meta tries to Define us as. We got some stuff achieved and it was fun and PVE raids and the occasional though very rare World versus World havocs. But it's like trying to herd cats, to quote a friend. We can make our own fun, but if we continue to play the way we've been going we're going to burn ourselves out like I did. I might not have full legendary because I enjoyed chasing versus fully achieving because if I actually got full legendary I would feel like I had done everything I would possibly want and eventually would run out of things to do. Keep your book open, keep writing. When the time is right I'll make a comeback and we'll see if we can get some thief Shenanigans going with the Eck community. Mind you this doesn't mean you can't try right now because the Discord is still up.