Do raids need easy/normal/hard difficulty mode? [merged]

[STIHL.2489]

@"Feanor.2358" said:No, it's not irrelevant only to me. Other players have more or less the same cognitive abilities. The novelty of the content wears out very quickly for everyone. Let's say it's not one time, let it be ten times. It is still irrelevant in the long run. These pieces of content are designed to be played many more times that that. You're only looking at yourself, imagining the one perfect gameplay experience you would get from playing this. Look at the bigger picture. Imagine playing your easy mode raid for 250th time over. Would the theme really matter? The behaviors? The characters or the scenery? At this point it is all routine. You go there, you do this, then that. You know it by heart, you've done it time and again, you can do it with your eyes closed, figuratively speaking. Do you really think the theme matters at this point? You might actually believe so, but you're wrong. It doesn't.

This folks is why "Challenging" content is a myth, at some point it will become routine, lose all it's challenge and be nothing but a mindless easy grind.

This is why any request for Challenging PvE content is just a veil by elitist and meta junkies to put in a means to stop players they feel are inferior to them from getting their precious prestige and best loots.

Quite petty really when you see it for what it is, and what I have always called it out to be.

[Grogba.6204]

"This folks is why "Challenging" content is a myth, at some point it will become routine, lose all it's challenge and be nothing but a mindless easy grind."

This statement is false. The content does not lose its challenge just because players learn how to properly deal with the content. One slip up and the fight ends in a wipe and just because certain groups like Snow Crows, Lucky Noobs or Quantify can breeze through the content means both that the content is easier than people in this thread want to accept and that these guilds are made up from exceptionally good players.

"This is why any request for Challenging PvE content is just a veil by elitist and meta junkies to put in a means to stop players they feel are inferior to them from getting their precious prestige and best loots."

Yeah, let us just remove everything requiring an iota of thought from the game, can't overload the poor casuals brain with demanding rotations that take effort to learn and are very rewarding if done correctly. Remove all elite specs, all class skills, all classes and just give everyone an automatic rifle with 9000 range to one-shot kill everything. Certainly the peak of gaming experience.

[Anvil.9230]

I regularly play raid since mid december.I think they are a good challenge for an average player like me without being too complex.

Some are quite easy (escort, trio, cairn, mursat, samarog...). Some Are more difficult...some can be more technic (Matthias, Dhum....), some are DPS test (Gorseval, KC...).People can increase diffciculty of most of them activating a challenge mode.

It take me on month and a half to unlock the legendary armor, meaning it take me one month and a half to be able to play the W1 to 4, starting from 0.

I play only with the LFG (no guild). So I mean it's possible to play raid, and it's not so difficult as long as you have an interest in what is needed to play them and as long as you make an effort to adapt yourself to their content (gear, rotation, mechanism, ...).Socialization is also interesting: I always try to discuss with people who find we had a good team on a boss to propose them to play together a boss I know less. They often accept without asking for KP, LI or Something else.I mean I use Boss I know well to try to push the raid team I play with to the next boss I know less. Of course I always prepare myself before to do that (looking for boss description and video on the net, etc.).And well...what more normal for an MMO to push people to socialize to be able to success....

I'll continue to play the raid, of course to complete the LI I need to finish the 6 pieces of the legendary armor: in one month and a half I played to unlock the armor, I had enough to craft two pieces. Actually, 4 month after I start Raids I have 4, nearly 5.And I'll although continue raid because I apreciate the coordination challenge...In fact, I think the real interest in raids is the mandatory coordination between the 10 players they actually impose to players.

[belognom.3685]

@Grogba.6204 said:I'd argue some of the new fractal bosses are above many raid encounters in terms of mechanics at this point. VG, Gorseval, Sabetha, Trio, Cairn, Mursaat, Samarog are not particularly mechanic heavy. Unlike the fractal bosses, only a handful of players even have to deal with mechanics while the rest pummels the boss until the HP bar is empty. shrug

I see no point in easy modes. As others wrote before they will either end up being deserted because they offer nothing in return nor prepare you for the real encounter...Or the easy mode ends up rewarding too much, making the real mode undesirable for rewarddriven players while still not preparing them for the normal encounter set up.

I call BS. I entered t1 fractals knowing nothing 4 mouths ago and worked my way up to t4s. Learning and practicing.As well as in any other RPGMMO i played there were easy and hard mode (at least) of dungeon/raid . So people can group up go try, learn and progress.Dahell with your drops I get my loot from open world events. More then enough to get 3 chars geared in ascended(by crafting) and made 2 legendary weapons.

I wanna see the content and I can't for various reasons. Biggest one being there are no way to practice and progress. Not everyone has time and willing to wipe on a single boss for 4 hours. People wanna get a kill, learn a bit, come back next day, learn another bit.Not everyone wanna get that legendary armor, cut the achievement for easy mods if you must. But almost everyone plays to have fun. Raids are fun, they suppose to be fun, why we are locked behind the wall?

[Vinceman.4572]

@belognom.3685 said:

I call BS. I entered t1 fractals knowing nothing 4 mouths ago and worked my way up to t4s. Learning and practicing.As well as in any other RPGMMO i played there were easy and hard mode (at least) of dungeon/raid . So people can group up go try, learn and progress.Dahell with your drops I get my loot from open world events. More then enough to get 3 chars geared in ascended(by crafting) and made 2 legendary weapons.

I wanna see the content and I can't for various reasons. Biggest one being there are no way to practice and progress. Not everyone has time and willing to wipe on a single boss for 4 hours. People wanna get a kill, learn a bit, come back next day, learn another bit.

As a regular fractal and raid player I can assure you that fractals will net you a lot more of stuff to get asc gear than open world content. And it's not a bit, it's massive unless you grind things like Istan or Silverwastes.

[belognom.3685]

@Vinceman.4572 said:

@belognom.3685 said:

I call BS. I entered t1 fractals knowing nothing 4 mouths ago and worked my way up to t4s. Learning and practicing.As well as in any other RPGMMO i played there were easy and hard mode (at least) of dungeon/raid . So people can group up go try, learn and progress.Dahell with your drops I get my loot from open world events. More then enough to get 3 chars geared in ascended(by crafting) and made 2 legendary weapons.

I wanna see the content and I can't for various reasons. Biggest one being there are no way to practice and progress. Not everyone has time and willing to wipe on a single boss for 4 hours. People wanna get a kill, learn a bit, come back next day, learn another bit.

As a regular fractal and raid player I can assure you that fractals will net you a lot more of stuff to get asc gear than open world content. And it's not a bit, it's massive unless you grind things like Istan or Silverwastes.

I don't need the loot. I already have what i need and even more. Thanks to SW and Istan yes. If i need something else I will swipe the card, I can afford that. I wanna have fun and see the content, simple. And the end of the day I payed for it, why i can't see what I payed for?Every single game ever solo has difficulty levels why there is no such thing to raids in GW2?

I need to be abble to open LFG like in any other game and join raid. Saying here is me, my role, my gear and my knowledge of fight. Do you guys and girls mind if it's my first time? If they do I'll drop and join next.

I don't want to que on 3rd part discords, whatnot etc. It's a bloody game, not a job, I need to be abble to play on times that are convenient to me, not anyone else.

Again I'm in guild with 4k members, that runs warious events, pve and wvw but no raid training, people are avoiding it as plague. no time. no nerves. Why there isn't less stressful mode where people can go without being stressed ?

[Grogba.6204]

"I don't need the loot. I already have what i need and even more. Thanks to SW and Istan yes. If i need something else I will swipe the card, I can afford that."

Nothing stopping you to buy a clear from a selling guild then. Or I don't know, put some effort and try to learn the encounter like all the "TOXIC ELITIST" did before. :shrug

[Sarrs.4831]

@"STIHL.2489" said:This folks is why "Challenging" content is a myth, at some point it will become routine, lose all it's challenge and be nothing but a mindless easy grind.

Then why do you need easy mode? Once you put forth the effort, it's become easy mode.

[Vinceman.4572]

@belognom.3685 said:Why there isn't less stressful mode where people can go without being stressed ?

Because you would run it once and never come back again a.k.a. wasted dev ressources.

[belognom.3685]

@Vinceman.4572 said:

@"belognom.3685" said:Why there isn't less stressful mode where people can go without being stressed ?

Because you would run it once and never come back again a.k.a. wasted dev ressources.

So by your determination t2 and t3s of fractals are wasted resources? Then again what you call wasted resources? Adding dozen 'if' https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conditional_(computer_programming) functions to already existing content?

[Feanor.2358]

@STIHL.2489 said:

@"Feanor.2358" said:No, it's not irrelevant only to me. Other players have more or less the same cognitive abilities. The novelty of the content wears out very quickly for everyone. Let's say it's not one time, let it be ten times. It is still irrelevant in the long run. These pieces of content are designed to be played many more times that that. You're only looking at yourself, imagining the one perfect gameplay experience you would get from playing this. Look at the bigger picture. Imagine playing your easy mode raid for 250th time over. Would the theme really matter? The behaviors? The characters or the scenery? At this point it is all routine. You go there, you do this, then that. You know it by heart, you've done it time and again, you can do it with your eyes closed, figuratively speaking. Do you really think the theme matters at this point? You might actually believe so, but you're wrong. It doesn't.

This folks is why "Challenging" content is a myth, at some point it will become routine, lose all it's challenge and be nothing but a mindless easy grind.

This is why any request for Challenging PvE content is just a veil by elitist and meta junkies to put in a means to stop players they feel are inferior to them from getting their precious prestige and best loots.

Quite petty really when you see it for what it is, and what I have always called it out to be.

The meta elitists did just as well excluding players they felt inferior before raids, in less challenging content. They do it in every single game, by the way. So again you're jumping to conclusions having absolutely zero reason for them.

[Sarrs.4831]

@belognom.3685 said:So by your determination t2 and t3s of fractals are wasted resources?

They're not quite the same, fractals are explicitly structured around the fractal level and instabilities, and the different tiers of fractals tie into those mechanics.

Even then I'd probably say that FotM has one bracket too many, and T2 and T3 could comfortably be compressed into one bracket.

[belognom.3685]

@Sarrs.4831 said:

@belognom.3685 said:So by your determination t2 and t3s of fractals are wasted resources?

They're not quite the same, fractals are explicitly structured around the fractal level and instabilities, and the different tiers of fractals tie into those mechanics.

Even then I'd probably say that FotM has one bracket too many, and T2 and T3 could comfortably be compressed into one bracket.

That is why i put t2-t3 could have just been easy-hard mod. And structured around the same 'if' functions determining difficulty, mech and agony .

But the role they play is to let you see and taste the content before you take deep breath and go to t4, you know most things, most mech, you know what to expect. you have experience of clearing content. You have grown over t2-t3 and want to do more challenging mod. It's those t2-t3s gave you that confidence and knowledge.So it's not wasted . Its just right, it's perfect to have.

[Feanor.2358]

@belognom.3685 said:

@Sarrs.4831 said:

@belognom.3685 said:So by your determination t2 and t3s of fractals are wasted resources?

They're not quite the same, fractals are explicitly structured around the fractal level and instabilities, and the different tiers of fractals tie into those mechanics.

Even then I'd probably say that FotM has one bracket too many, and T2 and T3 could comfortably be compressed into one bracket.

That is why i put t2-t3 could have just been easy-hard mod. And structured around the same 'if' functions determining difficulty, mech and agony .

But the role they play is to let you see and taste the content before you take deep breath and go to t4, you know most things, most mech, you know what to expect. you have experience of clearing content. You have grown over t2-t3 and want to do more challenging mod. It's those t2-t3s gave you that confidence and knowledge.So it's not wasted . Its just right, it's perfect to have.

This doesn't scale to actual challenging content though. Playing the T4 version doesn't prepare you for the CM one.

[Salicia.5943]

Fractals aside (because they are two different game modes with different mechanics) that Raids are fine the way they are and meant to be as such. When GW2 released Raids for HoT expansion the first line in the news feed were as follows: "You asked for the ultimate challenging content in Guild Wars 2—challenges that would put your skills to the test and push you and your friends to the edge to achieve victory. Now the answer is here." https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/raids-in-guild-wars-2/

Let me remind you that there was only a Normal and a Hard mode in GW1. You cannot compare GW2 to World of Warcraft so you have no ground to stand on. Just like Raiding in GW2 is easy compared to Raiding in Final Fantasy XIV Online. You want those raids? Go play that game and stop trying to change Anet's mind or decision on their game.

Allowing Easy mode will only hit the Raiding community in a negative way. It allows casuals or people who stand at a world/meta boss and press 1, or stand in a donut, die in a poison field on tequatl... is going to give them an open door to go "Oh hey that isn't that bad I want to do more" and hinder future groups that they join doing Normal Raids. We already have enough trouble with casuals trying to enter the raiding scene without getting proper training experience. If you do not have 2 hours to spend in a Raid Training group with the Inn discord or with guildmates/friends to enjoy the content then go enjoy the rest of the game. There's no story that you need to experience in raids that isn't searchable in a "Watch this" function on YouTube. As I don't know how to actually vote on this thread for the option I'd choose I'm sure it's obvious.

[Tyson.5160]

@"Salicia.5943" said:Fractals aside (because they are two different game modes with different mechanics) that Raids are fine the way they are and meant to be as such. When GW2 released Raids for HoT expansion the first line in the news feed were as follows: "You asked for the ultimate challenging content in Guild Wars 2—challenges that would put your skills to the test and push you and your friends to the edge to achieve victory. Now the answer is here." https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/raids-in-guild-wars-2/

Let me remind you that there was only a Normal and a Hard mode in GW1. You cannot compare GW2 to World of Warcraft so you have no ground to stand on. Just like Raiding in GW2 is easy compared to Raiding in Final Fantasy XIV Online. You want those raids? Go play that game and stop trying to change Anet's mind or decision on their game.

Allowing Easy mode will only hit the Raiding community in a negative way. It allows casuals or people who stand at a world/meta boss and press 1, or stand in a donut, die in a poison field on tequatl... is going to give them an open door to go "Oh hey that isn't that bad I want to do more" and hinder future groups that they join doing Normal Raids. We already have enough trouble with casuals trying to enter the raiding scene without getting proper training experience. If you do not have 2 hours to spend in a Raid Training group with the Inn discord or with guildmates/friends to enjoy the content then go enjoy the rest of the game. There's no story that you need to experience in raids that isn't searchable in a "Watch this" function on YouTube. As I don't know how to actually vote on this thread for the option I'd choose I'm sure it's obvious.

Why play the game at all and watch the whole thing on you tube...

[Salicia.5943]

@"Tyson.5160" said:

Why play the game at all and watch the whole thing on you tube...

I've done every raid multiple times, completed many open world things multiple times and don't know the story to them. Who is Xera? Who is Matthias? I think If I actually cared to know - like the OP is making an argument for people who want to "know the story" - they would find an alternative way to find them if they don't want to put in the effort to play it. You play a game online to play with friends and interact with other people and do collections and enjoy what the game has to offer. But if it's not in your taste to do things required (training, effort, time) just like in real life you have to find a work around to get the experience of what you want. Sure, it's not the "same" thing but it's close enough.

[Tyson.5160]

@Salicia.5943 said:

@Tyson.5160 said:

Why play the game at all and watch the whole thing on you tube...

But if it's not in your taste to do things required (training, effort, time) just like in real life

Shouldn’t have to be like real life, this is a hobby.

[Blocki.4931]

Just gonna note how hilarious it is to see people say that GW2 is past its prime etc. because the expansion was weak. The story has never been stronger and coherrent. The expansion was fine. It is sad that beyond collections there is no reason to ever return to the beautiful maps, but they still give a really good amount of playtime if you really do decide to finish achievements and collections and that is perfectly fine. LS4 brought with it multiple meta events that are extremely profitable and seeing people talk about how they're mostly abandoned at this point.. have you seen Istan for the past months? It went down a little, but it's still a very active farm map.

Now on raids: I believe they are fine the way they are. I'd like to bring a point videogamedunkey made in one of his videos: Games that have one set difficulty are much more interesting to play. They are set and balanced around this and they offer one solid experience. Not some varying health numbers, stat checks or what gives. Adding different difficulties completely changes the experience.

Not everybody has to enjoy every little part of a game. If raiding isn't for you, don't do it. Don't cry about it, instead start working on getting in. Why would the game accomodate YOU when it's mostly your job, you are playing the game you shouldn't complain about having to do so. I've enjoyed open world and WvW for years and only recently got into raiding - it's fun. But I don't hardcore grind progression either. I play with friends/guild and we slowly make our way forward. No pressure, no hard feelings when somebody is a little slow. That's fine.

Random people might not be fine with that and in a way, even that is perfectly fine in itself. I just wish for people to be a bit more open about things. I've seen people declare something a "TRAINING GROUP" just to then insult people who were new and then ragequit instead of explaining mechanics in the first place. It's frustrating if you fail, then somebody leaves, you explain the same stuff again, then another person leaves or the classic "uhh this takes longer than 10 min??? I have to go" people come in and you just toss your keyboard at your screen because progression is done for today. People should bring more than 30 minutes of time if they are serious about it and that isn't asking for too much. On the other hand people should also be more willing to explain mechanics etc. to new people. ease them in and perhaps remind them of something important happening. It would also be great if multiple people did explaining, not one guy that just gets extremely tired of doing it over and over on his own.

Okay, that was quite the tangent there but you get the point. One difficulty because it is supposed to be one special experience that isn't washed out by additional dev work.

[Talindra.4958]

Well said blocki.. it's not meant to be easy

[Ohoni.6057]

@"Blocki.4931" said:Now on raids: I believe they are fine the way they are. I'd like to bring a point videogamedunkey made in one of his videos: Games that have one set difficulty are much more interesting to play. They are set and balanced around this and they offer one solid experience. Not some varying health numbers, stat checks or what gives. Adding different difficulties completely changes the experience.

And I'm going to reference a video by

, that not having alternate difficulty modes can alienate potential players and greatly limit the number of people that can enjoy the gameplay mode. There is no harm in serving multiple audiences. Yes, it obviously changes the experience, but to many players, that "changed experience" is exactly what they are looking for.

Not everybody has to enjoy every little part of a game. If raiding isn't for you, don't do it. Don't cry about it, instead start working on getting in.

You're presenting two completely contradictory arguments here, "Not everybody has to enjoy every little part of a game" and "instead start working on getting in." Which is it? Should players accept that this element will never be for them, or should they force themselves into it, even knowing that they will never enjoy it? If there is a reward that they want from it, should they be fine accepting that they will never have that thing, or should they endure an experience that they will never enjoy in order to acquire it?

I feel like your basic argument boils down to "I'm fine with this, so you should be too, stop complaining about things that don't bother me, just because they bother you."

[Blocki.4931]

@Ohoni.6057 said:

@"Blocki.4931" said:Now on raids: I believe they are fine the way they are. I'd like to bring a point videogamedunkey made in one of his videos: Games that have one set difficulty are much more interesting to play. They are set and balanced around this and they offer one solid experience. Not some varying health numbers, stat checks or what gives. Adding different difficulties completely changes the experience.

And I'm going to reference a video by

, that

not

having alternate difficulty modes can alienate potential players and greatly limit the number of people that can enjoy the gameplay mode. There is no harm in serving multiple audiences. Yes, it

obviously

changes the experience, but to many players, that "changed experience" is exactly what they are looking for.

Not everybody has to enjoy every little part of a game. If raiding isn't for you, don't do it. Don't cry about it, instead start working on getting in.

You're presenting two completely contradictory arguments here, "Not everybody has to enjoy every little part of a game" and "instead start working on getting in." Which is it? Should players accept that this element will never be for them, or should they force themselves into it, even knowing that they will never enjoy it? If there is a reward that they want from it, should they be fine accepting that they will never have that thing, or should they endure an experience that they will never enjoy in order to acquire it?

I feel like your basic argument boils down to "I'm fine with this, so you should be too, stop complaining about things that don't bother

me,

just because they bother

you."

It's not contradictory at all. It's just the perspective you didn't quite catch there and I could have written it differently.

People who are grumpy about raids are unlikely to enjoy them, even if they try them beyond what might be expected. Those can live happily ever after without going back in there - I brought up my anecdotal story about how I just recently got into it after not being interested in it at all. That is accepting that this part of the game simply doesn't interest them. No need to talk about this. These people shouldn't comment about how raids should have to change just so they might enjoy it themselves because they chose to not be part of it.

There are people who are simply not good enough to enjoy this content, those need to put in the work in to get to that point. That's what I was talking about. Somebody in full soldier gear from a level boost without spending a second thought on gear or skills shouldn't be able to clear raids in a normal group that can't hardcarry him. Those are the people that I don't want to see any complaint from either. Learn and get there, realize it isn't all that difficult once you're past a certain point of the learning curve.

It's like collections. Not everybody does or cares about them but the people that do can get a lot of enjoyment from it. Should collections be made easier so everybody can enjoy them? No, because that defeats the point. Doesn't help anybody enjoy them who didn't want to do so in the first place.I guess you could say that having a barrier of entry (really like that term) like in those cases is the main issue here. How do you get people into raids? By telling them there are fancy rewards in legendary armor and easy ascendeds/challenging content and amazing lore! Meanwhile people still don't enjoy actually playing the content. If you don't enjoy what you are playing then you probably shouldn't do it. It's that easy. That's where I was looping back to point 1.If you absolutely HAVE to have that special armor skin or whatever, then you will swallow the bitter pill and do it one way or another. I think we need to differentiate that from the rest.

Again, it's about putting in effort vs "this should entertain me even if I don't try"

You could also bring up that the Super Adventure Box may be super exciting for many, extremely uninteresting to others. Why is that okay? Because it's only temporary? But it comes back and will bore you to death again! A looming threat! That even, quite literally, has an infantile mode that allows you to breeze through everything. I loved that default feeling back when it first came out, though by now I simply can't enjoy it at all anymore. I accept that this content simply isn't aimed at me, because it doesn't appeal to who I am and how I (and want to) play the game. I will not go around and demand changes because this festival in particular is annoying the hell out of me because I don't think that my opinion is exactly qualified to do that.

That is not to say that people aren't allowed to have opinions. It's just that somebody who isn't part of that target audience can't really speak for that target audience.

[Ohoni.6057]

@"Blocki.4931" said:People who are grumpy about raids are unlikely to enjoy them, even if they try them beyond what might be expected. Those can live happily ever after without going back in there - I brought up my anecdotal story about how I just recently got into it after not being interested in it at all. That is accepting that this part of the game simply doesn't interest them. No need to talk about this. These people shouldn't comment about how raids should have to change just so they might enjoy it themselves because they chose to not be part of it.

Why shouldn't they? If there are changes that could be made so that they would enjoy the content, then why should they stay silent about that?

I get that if plenty of people enjoy them the way they are, then it's a tough sell to change the existing version to suit a different audience, but nobody is really asking for that. The recommendation on the table is for there to be alternatives to the existing raids that would be available to those remaining players, in addition to the existing version.

There are people who are simply not good enough to enjoy this content, those need to put in the work in to get to that point.

No, they don't. That might not be what would make them happy. This is a game, nobody needs to do anything.

Somebody in full soldier gear from a level boost without spending a second thought on gear or skills shouldn't be able to clear raids in a normal group that can't hardcarry him.

Right, which is why that person might prefer to have access to an easy mode raid, in which everyone shows up in Soldier's gear, everyone carries their own weight, and they still get through it.

It's like collections. Not everybody does or cares about them but the people that do can get a lot of enjoyment from it. Should collections be made easier so everybody can enjoy them? No, because that defeats the point.

It really does depend on what the community in general thinks about the collection. Some collections are fine, but just because the collection exists does not mean it is automatically fine, that there couldn't be ways to improve upon it.

I guess you could say that having a barrier of entry (really like that term) like in those cases is the main issue here. How do you get people into raids? By telling them there are fancy rewards in legendary armor and easy ascendeds/challenging content and amazing lore! Meanwhile people still don't enjoy actually playing the content. If you don't enjoy what you are playing then you probably shouldn't do it. It's that easy. That's where I was looping back to point 1.

Exactly, which is why there need to be alternatives, so that people aren't left with two bad choices, either A. Keep playing something you'll never enjoy or B. Quit and never get the reward/experience you were interested in. There needs to be an option C, do something else and get that reward/experience you set out to get.

Again, it's about putting in effort vs "this should entertain me even if I don't try"

But what if not every player enjoy putting in the sort of effort that you're talking about? What if some players just want to have fun right from the start, the entire time, rather than being willing to only have fun after putting in hours and hours of "getting gud?"

You could also bring up that the Super Adventure Box may be super exciting for many, extremely uninteresting to others. Why is that okay? Because it's only temporary?

Because most rewards can be earned with relatively minimal effort and skill. It might take a bit longer, but you don't need to farm Tribulation mode if you don't want to.

That is not to say that people aren't allowed to have opinions. It's just that somebody who isn't part of that target audience can't really speak for that target audience.

But they don't have to speak for the target audience, speaking for themselves is plenty. So long as they are part of the game's community, they ARE important.

[STIHL.2489]

@Feanor.2358 said:

@STIHL.2489 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:No, it's not irrelevant only to me. Other players have more or less the same cognitive abilities. The novelty of the content wears out very quickly for everyone. Let's say it's not one time, let it be ten times. It is still irrelevant in the long run. These pieces of content are designed to be played many more times that that. You're only looking at yourself, imagining the one perfect gameplay experience you would get from playing this. Look at the bigger picture. Imagine playing your easy mode raid for 250th time over. Would the theme really matter? The behaviors? The characters or the scenery? At this point it is all routine. You go there, you do this, then that. You know it by heart, you've done it time and again, you can do it with your eyes closed, figuratively speaking. Do you really think the theme matters at this point? You might actually believe so, but you're wrong. It doesn't.

This folks is why "Challenging" content is a myth, at some point it will become routine, lose all it's challenge and be nothing but a mindless easy grind.

This is why any request for Challenging PvE content is just a veil by elitist and meta junkies to put in a means to stop players they feel are inferior to them from getting their precious prestige and best loots.

Quite petty really when you see it for what it is, and what I have always called it out to be.

The meta elitists did just as well excluding players they felt inferior before raids, in less challenging content. They do it in every single game, by the way. So again you're jumping to conclusions having absolutely zero reason for them.

And... Wrong Again.

They could not exclude people from the content itself, as it was easy enough for mid level players to enjoy and they would often invite casuals and the like to join them. At best the elitist and meta junkies excluded people from their groups, but this in no way denied those players the ability to enjoy the content. Which is they cried and whined and begged for content that was too hard for others. Pitiful vanity and self serving egotistic pride.

The only thing wrong here, is that Anet gave it to them.... and Anet will suffer for that stupidity.

[STIHL.2489]

@"Blocki.4931" said:Why would the game accomodate YOU when it's mostly your job, you are playing the game you shouldn't complain about having to do so.

Lets get one thing very clear here, it's their Job to entertain me, that is why I pay them. It is not, nor shall it ever be, my job in this relationship. I do this for fun, and escapism, not work, not a job, not a duty, but frivolous mindless escapism. No.. I don't plan to "git gud" as I don't have the time or the give a damn to turn this game into a work.