Elementalist is so disappointing, it's sad to see

[Squirrell.1493]

21 hours ago, Helgaley.3619 said:

Wingman doesn't account for pvp, wvw, and open world, though, and according to gw2efficiency, it's actually number 5 for playtime: https://gw2efficiency.com/account/player-statistics

 

 

Because I don't see limit date, and seeing the numbers of play, I think the statistic from Gw2efficiency count since the beginning of the game, when there was a lot of elem. And it count only the players that register on the site.

I'd be curious to see the same statistic since 1 year, for exemple

Edited November 13, 2023 by Squirrell.1493

[Joncal.9623]

On 11/12/2023 at 1:49 PM, kharmin.7683 said:

I believe that this is due to the game's change of direction toward instanced content (raids, strikes) in order to keep players close together for boon-sharing.

Which can easily be fixed/bypassed with an increase range of all boons (and/or heals).  The lazy route is the easiest tho. 

[Helgaley.3619]

16 minutes ago, Joncal.9623 said:

Which can easily be fixed/bypassed with an increase range of all boons (and/or heals).  The lazy route is the easiest tho. 

It's already kind of lazy as it is. Most of the offensive boons are almost effortless to maintain, but then with quickness and alacrity, you have some classes that can vomit them out with no effort (harb) while others, and I'm not gonna name any names (CATALYST), have to build energy to place a stationary field people might move out of that goes on cool down before it can be placed again, and you can't build energy while it's down. 

You definitely notice when you don't have them, but it doesn't really feel impactful or fun as much as it feels like checking off a box. It would be nice if they had some kind of diminishing return that would gradually reduce their benefit for a certain period so groups would need to plan out when they actually need to stack to share boons for like 20ish seconds to push a phase or something, then they can spread back out to wherever they are least likely to get one shot. 

They'd definitely need to fix staff for elementalist, though, otherwise we're still stuck in melee hoping the boss doesn't fart in our general direction. 

[AliamRationem.5172]

8 hours ago, Joncal.9623 said:

Which can easily be fixed/bypassed with an increase range of all boons (and/or heals).  The lazy route is the easiest tho. 

Actually, what you propose is the lazy way.  The limited area of effect for boons is more a side-effect of not having any means to control enemy aggro (i.e. tanking).  They could extend the boon range, but you'd still have to stack to control enemy positioning against non-stationary bosses.  On stationary bosses this would increase the disparity between ranged and melee as encounters are currently designed for stacking at melee.  For example, imagine split phases where your ranged DPS are already split.

There is no easy solution to these issues.  The "right" way to do it would have been to have the trinity from the start including tanks to control enemy positioning, healers with ranged targeted heals, boons, and cleansing, and the UI to support these roles.  This would have necessitated encounter design that takes these things into account with challenges for both melee and ranged classes built into the design.

[Squirrell.1493]

20 hours ago, Squirrell.1493 said:

Because I don't see limit date, and seeing the numbers of play, I think the statistic from Gw2efficiency count since the beginning of the game, when there was a lot of elem. And it count only the players that register on the site.

I'd be curious to see the same statistic since 1 year, for exemple

For fun, I have look for the evolution of hour's number of play by class since yesterday on gw2efficiency : 

Necromancer +55 438 hours (total play : 135 323 304 hours)

Guardian +44 293 

Mesmer +42 586

Revenant +39 323

Ranger +28 640

Thief +28 236

Warrior +27 225

Elementalist +24 443

Engineer +22 627

 

Even if those numbers look high, compare to the total of hours play by class prove that the statistics run since a long time (see for Necro)

The number for Engineer is curious, I expected more for this class. I'll check the evolution tomorrow 🙂

 

Have fun everyone, because that's what a game is for

[draxynnic.3719]

55 minutes ago, Squirrell.1493 said:

The number for Engineer is curious, I expected more for this class. I'll check the evolution tomorrow 🙂

Mech seems to be slipping off its pedestal, and other engineer builds tend to be about as complicated (or even more so) to play as ele builds. That'd probably explain the low numbers.

[Joncal.9623]

20 hours ago, AliamRationem.5172 said:

Actually, what you propose is the lazy way. 

I mean, you already have warriors with insane boon range so why not just expand it to others, right?

But that’s asking for a lot when it comes to aNet. 

[Scar.1793]

On 11/10/2023 at 9:06 PM, Omg Im Target.3095 said:

Where is this anti-ele propaganda coming from? From self victimizing weavers to this...

If that is how you feel I can’t help it.

It’s just my POV and experience after boosting an ele, gearing it up, learning to play it, only to find it’s absolute pisspoor compared to other classes.

Went back to warrior since it can properly use a sword and has a ton of fire VFX as berserker, which was exactly what I wanted. To top it off, not only it’s easier but more fun and effective at what it does (aka applying burning).

[corwin.3495]

I will simply copy paste what I wrote in another topic regarding similar problems and hope that the devs will at least increase base hp of the elementalist. 

I played gw2 for about 7 years now and I decided to finally try out Elementalist, in my case Weaver. I heard many jokes how it's low hp, glass class, did not believe it. But after playing it for a couple of weeks, even with my 7 years of knowledge I easily get downed in the open world (I even have vitality jadebot core). 
Stop calling it a "glass cannon" because there is no cannon to be found. Ele is just a piece of glass waiting to be stomped on. What cannon, when a heavy armor herald has 200% more survivability and damage. Please buff the HP and add more survivability to Eles, I die faster than I can swap out the elements to protect or heal myself. Heck, I can't even finish casting my heal utility spell and I get downed/interrupted. 

TLDR; please buff Ele's HP, it's not funny anymore. 

[AliamRationem.5172]

8 hours ago, corwin.3495 said:

I will simply copy paste what I wrote in another topic regarding similar problems and hope that the devs will at least increase base hp of the elementalist. 

I played gw2 for about 7 years now and I decided to finally try out Elementalist, in my case Weaver. I heard many jokes how it's low hp, glass class, did not believe it. But after playing it for a couple of weeks, even with my 7 years of knowledge I easily get downed in the open world (I even have vitality jadebot core). 
Stop calling it a "glass cannon" because there is no cannon to be found. Ele is just a piece of glass waiting to be stomped on. What cannon, when a heavy armor herald has 200% more survivability and damage. Please buff the HP and add more survivability to Eles, I die faster than I can swap out the elements to protect or heal myself. Heck, I can't even finish casting my heal utility spell and I get downed/interrupted. 

TLDR; please buff Ele's HP, it's not funny anymore. 

I'm not going to argue that other classes don't have it easier or that both their baseline and potential sustain aren't higher, but ele isn't as bad as all that.  Have you tried playing different builds?  For example, this build can manage 21k DPS while having 3.1k armor plus full protection uptime, multiple cleanses and reflects, projectile block, invuln, extra evades, and great CC as well. 

As you can see in the clip, it's so tanky just the passive healing and barrier it generates are enough to sustain indefinitely against this champion even though I'm neither moving nor dodging to avoid any of its attacks.  But you still have all of the other active defenses, cleansing, etc. you need to handle really tough enemies up to and including legendary bounties, T2/T3 rift champions, etc.  I think this is a great build for solo play if you feel the need to survive against even the toughest challenges without giving up too much damage.

Edited November 17, 2023 by AliamRationem.5172

[corwin.3495]

3 hours ago, AliamRationem.5172 said:

I'm not going to argue that other classes don't have it easier or that both their baseline and potential sustain aren't higher, but ele isn't as bad as all that.  Have you tried playing different builds?  For example, this build can manage 21k DPS while having 3.1k armor plus full protection uptime, multiple cleanses and reflects, projectile block, invuln, extra evades, and great CC as well. 

As you can see in the clip, it's so tanky just the passive healing and barrier it generates are enough to sustain indefinitely against this champion even though I'm neither moving nor dodging to avoid any of its attacks.  But you still have all of the other active defenses, cleansing, etc. you need to handle really tough enemies up to and including legendary bounties, T2/T3 rift champions, etc.  I think this is a great build for solo play if you feel the need to survive against even the toughest challenges without giving up too much damage.

I know there are build that would help me survive, of course there are. The problem is that the Ele needs to jump through hoops and loops to survive while other classes just casually use what ever and do fine in the open world. 

[AliamRationem.5172]

On 11/17/2023 at 3:20 PM, corwin.3495 said:

I know there are build that would help me survive, of course there are. The problem is that the Ele needs to jump through hoops and loops to survive while other classes just casually use what ever and do fine in the open world. 

Other classes definitely do not have anywhere near that level of sustain and damage without making significant changes to their builds.  Also, it wasn't much of a hoop to jump through.  This build is only 1 trait off of the meta build and you can run it with viper stats and still solo champs, just probably not the really tough stuff like legendary or t3.

Edit:  I'm a little confused by the hate train on this one.  Did I say anything inaccurate?  Do other classes not also have to build for defense if they want to have the kind of sustain demonstrated in the video clip I linked previously?  And can weaver not perform perfectly well in open world using a normal DPS build? 

If you doubt that, here are a couple of clips to illustrate the point.  I know everyone loves these frogs, for starters.  But even in a discussion where we're specifically disputing weaver's ability to survive and kill trash mobs in open world, I know this won't convince anyone.  So here's everyone's favorite champion, Balthazar, for good measure.

So what's the problem with these claims?  Do they not hold up?  I'm showing you full viper weaver using pretty much the same exact build I use to run CM fractals, raids, and strikes.  It works just fine in open world.  No hoops.  No tricks.  Just using the available kit.  I'll grant you weaver is a difficult spec to pick up and play.  It takes some practice. 

Is that the source of the problem?  While I certainly wouldn't mind some of the goodies like boons, boonstrip, etc. that other classes seem to get for free, I am strongly against changing the way weaver works.  It's the one thing I think they really got right more than any other spec in the game.  It feels great to play.  In my opinion, it's okay to have specs that aren't just push buttons at random and win.  I like that about weaver.  I just wouldn't mind some of the good stuff as I don't feel it's justified that weaver is a zero utility spec in a field full of classes that do just as much damage while also having all the goodies.  Agree/disagree?

Edited November 19, 2023 by AliamRationem.5172

[Arheundel.6451]

On 11/18/2023 at 1:59 AM, AliamRationem.5172 said:

Other classes definitely do not have anywhere near that level of sustain and damage without making significant changes to their builds.  Also, it wasn't much of a hoop to jump through.  This build is only 1 trait off of the meta build and you can run it with viper stats and still solo champs, just probably not the really tough stuff like legendary or t3.

Edit:  I'm a little confused by the hate train on this one.  Did I say anything inaccurate?  Do other classes not also have to build for defense if they want to have the kind of sustain demonstrated in the video clip I linked previously?  And can weaver not perform perfectly well in open world using a normal DPS build? 

If you doubt that, here are a couple of clips to illustrate the point.  I know everyone loves these frogs, for starters.  But even in a discussion where we're specifically disputing weaver's ability to survive and kill trash mobs in open world, I know this won't convince anyone.  So here's everyone's favorite champion, Balthazar, for good measure.

So what's the problem with these claims?  Do they not hold up?  I'm showing you full viper weaver using pretty much the same exact build I use to run CM fractals, raids, and strikes.  It works just fine in open world.  No hoops.  No tricks.  Just using the available kit.  I'll grant you weaver is a difficult spec to pick up and play.  It takes some practice. 

Is that the source of the problem?  While I certainly wouldn't mind some of the goodies like boons, boonstrip, etc. that other classes seem to get for free, I am strongly against changing the way weaver works.  It's the one thing I think they really got right more than any other spec in the game.  It feels great to play.  In my opinion, it's okay to have specs that aren't just push buttons at random and win.  I like that about weaver.  I just wouldn't mind some of the good stuff as I don't feel it's justified that weaver is a zero utility spec in a field full of classes that do just as much damage while also having all the goodies.  Agree/disagree?

You need to realize and accept the frustration people go through to succeed on ele...while they face literal braindead specs doing dmg and sustain themselves at the press of a couple of buttons...it's the frustration talking

[AliamRationem.5172]

1 hour ago, Arheundel.6451 said:

You need to realize and accept the frustration people go through to succeed on ele...while they face literal braindead specs doing dmg and sustain themselves at the press of a couple of buttons...it's the frustration talking

Fair enough.  Like I said, it's not an easy spec to pick up and play.  And I do think that should be taken into account as a factor in balancing, although perhaps not to the degree that some might consider necessary based on the frustration.  For myself, I'd like to see them stop treating weaver as a special case that deserves to have no utility whatsoever.  It really isn't justified in the current climate where classes like druid which were once single-purpose are now top damage specs.

[Doctor Hide.6345]

2 hours ago, Arheundel.6451 said:

You need to realize and accept the frustration people go through to succeed on ele...while they face literal braindead specs doing dmg and sustain themselves at the press of a couple of buttons...it's the frustration talking

The thing is everyone who plays Ele has to go through that stage to get actually good at the profession. So, a lot of us do get it, but we never complained about it though or asked for it to be changed to fit our needs better. We accepted that it is just how the class is and just dealt with it. That is my problem with those complaining. Yes, we know it is frustrating. But it is just part of the "get gud" phase for playing Ele. If they can't handle it, then I would just recommend they play something else and leave Ele alone to those who like it as is.

Edited November 22, 2023 by Doctor Hide.6345

[RazieL.5684]

On 11/23/2023 at 12:47 AM, Doctor Hide.6345 said:

The thing is everyone who plays Ele has to go through that stage to get actually good at the profession. So, a lot of us do get it, but we never complained about it though or asked for it to be changed to fit our needs better. We accepted that it is just how the class is and just dealt with it. That is my problem with those complaining. Yes, we know it is frustrating. But it is just part of the "get gud" phase for playing Ele. If they can't handle it, then I would just recommend they play something else and leave Ele alone to those who like it as is.

"yeah ele is worse than everyone else but since i tortured myself with it through the years they shouldn't fix it to be on the same level as the rest but leave it as it is for everyone else to go through the same torture i did"

JEEEEEEESUS CHRIST!!!....

Edited November 24, 2023 by RazieL.5684

[Helgaley.3619]

9 minutes ago, RazieL.5684 said:

"yeah ele is worse than everyone else but since i tortured myself with it through the years they shouldn't fix it to be on the same level as the rest but leave it as it is for everyone else to go through the same torture i did"

JEEEEEEESUS CHRIST!!!....

110% this. "I suffered so others should too. If they don't like it, they can go play some other profession that brings more DPS, utility, and survivability with half the complexity of ele." 

[Doctor Hide.6345]

8 minutes ago, RazieL.5684 said:

"yeah ele is worse than everyone else but since i tortured myself with it through the years they shouldn't fix it to be on the same level as the rest but leave it as it is for everyone else to go through the same torture i did"

JEEEEEEESUS CHRIST!!!....

The good thing it really doesn't matter if you like my take or not because that seems to be the take Anet has taken as well with the profession. So, it stinks to be those who don't like it then. Oh well, I guess it's time they move on to another class that does suit their needs. 🙂

[Helgaley.3619]

13 minutes ago, Doctor Hide.6345 said:

The good thing it really doesn't matter if you like my take or not because that seems to be the take Anet has taken as well with the profession. So, it stinks to be those who don't like it then. Oh well, I guess it's time they move on to another class that does suit their needs. 🙂

Okay boomer 

[Doctor Hide.6345]

1 minute ago, Helgaley.3619 said:

Okay boomer 

You say that like it is an insult, but it is not. I find that word to be a compliment, so I thank you for complimenting me. 🙂

[RazieL.5684]

14 hours ago, Doctor Hide.6345 said:

The good thing it really doesn't matter if you like my take or not because that seems to be the take Anet has taken as well with the profession. So, it stinks to be those who don't like it then. Oh well, I guess it's time they move on to another class that does suit their needs. 🙂

it's not about "liking" your take, it's a stupid take so nobody cares... btw what happened with that skyscale thingy? oooh riiight... anet saw it was tougher than it needed to be, and streamlined it later on... you know nothing about anet's takes so don't try to sound smug... there is no telling what anet will do with ele in the future, hopefully they fix it up a bit...

Edited November 25, 2023 by RazieL.5684

[Incurve Giidis.7829]

ele without staff is not worht playing and its not worth playing staff not even on heal

cata with hammer was fun but even its' only profession mechanic isnt worth playing lmao

[AliamRationem.5172]

3 hours ago, RazieL.5684 said:

it's not about "liking" your take, it's a stupid take so nobody cares... btw what happened with that skyscale thingy? oooh riiight... anet saw it was tougher than it needed to be, and streamlined it later on... you know nothing about anet's takes so don't try to sound smug... there is no telling what anet will do with ele in the future, hopefully they fix it up a bit...

I guess it depends on what you mean by "fixing it up".  You seem to be suggesting that this would involve reworking the way the class plays to make it easier, which would likely ruin the class for anyone who enjoys it the way it is.  However, if it means giving elementalist access to the things it lacks so that it doesn't feel so much like you work harder for weaker results, then I think a lot of people would agree with that.  Why no boonstrip? Fewer boons? Less mobility? Weaker CC? Garbage utilities?  These are things they could fix that I think many would agree are no longer justified in the game's current state.

[RazieL.5684]

39 minutes ago, AliamRationem.5172 said:

I guess it depends on what you mean by "fixing it up".  You seem to be suggesting that this would involve reworking the way the class plays to make it easier, which would likely ruin the class for anyone who enjoys it the way it is.  However, if it means giving elementalist access to the things it lacks so that it doesn't feel so much like you work harder for weaker results, then I think a lot of people would agree with that.  Why no boonstrip? Fewer boons? Less mobility? Weaker CC? Garbage utilities?  These are things they could fix that I think many would agree are no longer justified in the game's current state.

idk why would anyone get the first part from what i'm saying... the latter is what everyone is talking about... ele works harder than anyone else to achieve the same results as everyone else... why though? effort should be rewarded...

[Birdie.3869]

If you're still playing ele, take all your gear off, swap it to necromancer and run harbinger instead. You can be a better boon support with infinite quickness and fury, do equal dps with the same gear just auto attacking, have access to the best pull in the game, are about two to three times as tanky, AND you get access to corrupting or removing boons.
They're getting a buff next patch too, with death magic being better for even better tanky ways without giving up dps.
If you want to run support, go scourge instead for ranged alacrity on a slightly harder rotation.

Ele has always done three times the work for half the pay off. CMC was suppose to be the "ele main" that would save us but ended up not caring just like the last devs. Every patch that buffs ele, two more comes out that nerfs it.

If you play ele do yourself a favor and swap over to necro to do literally everything better for way less work and much more survivability.
Sorry if you enjoy ele.