Untamed teleport burst nerf

[kiwituatara.6053]

Just wondering why untamed teleport -> burst was nerfed when willbenders can still do. Not to mention, the untamed burst combo was much harder to pull off than willbender.

[DarkFlopy.8197]

The most used excuse I have seen is "because I don't like being one-shot without any time to react" meanwhile almost every other class/spec is still capable of doing it some since 2012.

we just have to face it that Anet hate rangers and don't want this class to have fun.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

Just typical anet logic. Thief can do it, guardian can do it, mesmer can do it. Ranger which is typically a ambush heavy spec in most other games with less stealth than rogue but beefier wouldn't make sense, not like a ambushing guardian would/does.

Honestly anyone who's played this game for any decent amount of time should kno anets balance decisions are almost 99% questionable and make little sense. Just enjoy game for what it is and move on when u don't.

Edited October 31, 2023 by Psycoprophet.8107

[Sansar.1302]

The favored classes needs to have an advantage 😞

[kiwituatara.6053]

In WvW the other day, I got 100 -> 0 from a teleport willbender. I had 3k+ armor with dolyak stance on. I kept the receipt if anyone wants to watch.

[Gotejjeken.1267]

Literally sPvP--if anyone wonders why nerfs happen, look at the sPvP forums, you will always find the reason there.

Anyway, the 'reason' is Plat 2+ players (e.g. Boyce) were using teleburst to great effect--the problem for the rest of us mortals is that specific combo was VERY hard to pull off in an actual situation without macro use.

For the WvW side no one cared about it as Untamed isn't really used there, so yes, things like Judges Intervention seems out of line on WB because it has so much mobility.  The problem there though is JI is a core skill that used to make sense when Guardians wern't sonic the hedghog speed.  

[psizone.8437]

11 hours ago, kiwituatara.6053 said:

In WvW the other day, I got 100 -> 0 from a teleport willbender. I had 3k+ armor with dolyak stance on. I kept the receipt if anyone wants to watch.

Post it in the WvW and Guardian forums, they get real mad when someone says Willbender is broken.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

8 hours ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

Literally sPvP--if anyone wonders why nerfs happen, look at the sPvP forums, you will always find the reason there.

Anyway, the 'reason' is Plat 2+ players (e.g. Boyce) were using teleburst to great effect--the problem for the rest of us mortals is that specific combo was VERY hard to pull off in an actual situation without macro use.

For the WvW side no one cared about it as Untamed isn't really used there, so yes, things like Judges Intervention seems out of line on WB because it has so much mobility.  The problem there though is JI is a core skill that used to make sense when Guardians wern't sonic the hedghog speed.  

This is a issue I see getting worse and worse every year. The balance devs have always made questionable nerf and rework decisions in this game and the forums have always had nerf threads but recently seems like the factor of whether somthing needs to be nerfed or not is if it's seeing play in mat's and if it's effective, not if it's actually out of line withing the balance of the game and its other classes. Considering all the teleport bursts other classes are capable of in the game why was rangers removed and not guards,thief etc? If the preload of maul was why than why not nerf maul damage to that of what thief or guards follow up skills to their teleports are instead of removing the ability to combo the skills from ranger alone.

Just seems like whether somthing is actually op or not if it sees play in a MaT and is effective it's automatically deemed op by community and by the devs and nerfed. Things can be effectively used and be useful without being op.

[Gotejjeken.1267]

5 hours ago, Psycoprophet.8107 said:

Just seems like whether somthing is actually op or not if it sees play in a MaT and is effective it's automatically deemed op by community and by the devs and nerfed. Things can be effectively used and be useful without being op.

Agree; and the fact that sPvP is the least played mode makes it all the worse.  

Actually too, they have a 3-mode split for a reason--so if they changed in sPvP they didn't have to touch it in PvE or WvW where it wasn't problematic.  But like you said, they base everything on MAT for at least sPvP and WvW (sometimes they use test golem for PvE), which makes no sense.  

[Nanoir.2315]

On 10/31/2023 at 2:00 PM, kiwituatara.6053 said:

Just wondering why untamed teleport -> burst was nerfed when willbenders can still do. Not to mention, the untamed burst combo was much harder to pull off than willbender.

Balancing on this game is done with chatgpt or something stg plus guardian is anets golden child no?

[Nero.3108]

Where can one find such combos? I need Jesus when it comes to this right here... Lost is an understatement. 

Thanks, 
Nero.3108

[Silvoshipnos.2089]

At least with respect to WvW, the thing is that the game isn't balanced around roaming, except when it comes to nerfing ranger but that's because rangers should only be allowed to play druid in zergs

[Lazze.9870]

The answers are that 1)Remorseless ranger, and Untamed in particular, was strong and didn't need the teleport on top of it to be really good, and 2) PvP players complaining.

Reason number 1 is also why they removed the fury from Let Loose.

And yes, it sucks, but Ranger can live without it. It did for months after the nerf. Willbender would be complete trash without the ports (not that I like WvW Willies, they are obnoxious at best).

Edited November 21, 2023 by Lazze.9870

[DarkFlopy.8197]

On 11/20/2023 at 5:17 PM, Lazze.9870 said:

Willbender would be complete trash without the ports

Well... Willbender has access (and insane uptime) to almost anything available in the game and that include boons, the only thing they miss is stealth/distortion but don't worry they will get it eventually since their Anets golden child.

Therefore your "willbender would be complete trash without the ports" is one of the worst excuses I have yet to encounter about this topic since noone said take away ALL the ports since they have plenty with very low CD and ability to reset them too and on top of that some have ammunition too.

Untamed has ONE per 40sec if it didn't hit the target WITH IT and 20sec if it did and it requires a target, that's it and also it's a utility unlike willbender where it's literally everywhere, we are lucky their heal is not a port too...

Edited November 21, 2023 by DarkFlopy.8197

[Lazze.9870]

3 hours ago, DarkFlopy.8197 said:

Well... Willbender has access (and insane uptime) to almost anything available in the game and that include boons, the only thing they miss is stealth/distortion but don't worry they will get it eventually since their Anets golden child.

Therefore your "willbender would be complete trash without the ports" is one of the worst excuses I have yet to encounter about this topic since noone said take away ALL the ports since they have plenty with very low CD and ability to reset them too and on top of that some have ammunition too.

Untamed has ONE per 40sec if it didn't hit the target WITH IT and 20sec if it did and it requires a target, that's it and also it's a utility unlike willbender where it's literally everywhere, we are lucky their heal is not a port too...

I'm just replying to "Willbender can still port". That implies having access to ports at all.

The Untamed nerf sucks and it also sucks that Anet thinks ranger can't have a regular port without all the drawbacks, but Untamed managed just fine in the PvP meta without it.

[Gotejjeken.1267]

2 hours ago, Lazze.9870 said:

The Untamed nerf sucks and it also sucks that Anet thinks ranger can't have a regular port without all the drawbacks, but Untamed managed just fine in the PvP meta without it.

Where in the PvP meta, exactly? 

The latest Untamed PvP build was hotfixed nerfed due to being a bunker--that one didn't use UT at all.  

You know what it did use? Neurotoxin Burst, which has been nerfed I believe three times now in sPvP, to the point to where, in persistent g2/g3 and above, I have never seen an Untamed use it.  I've seen Solar Brilliance a few times, and by and large still Sword variant Soulbeasts--but have not fought an offensive Dagger untamed (ex: non-bunker) yet in over hundred games between the last two seasons.

But power untamed? Completely and utterly relied on that teleburst, hasn't been 'meta' since late last year / early this year at best.  The power meta since then was soulbeast, but they took a nuke to it in both PvP and WvW.  

On 11/20/2023 at 9:29 AM, Silvoshipnos.2089 said:

At least with respect to WvW, the thing is that the game isn't balanced around roaming, except when it comes to nerfing ranger but that's because rangers should only be allowed to play druid in zergs

Agree in general sense for WvW--from my perspective, Druid is really the only safe bet anywhere at the moment. 

You can run on Soulbeast, but do no damage (outside of obvious +1 ganks with a partner that always have existed), and if you run Untamed you either can't do enough damage on power, be mildly useful in guild duels / havoc, and be useless in zergs or have a decent duelist in condi but cannot do outnumbered or zergs like you can on a Druid. 

Who knows, this may change with mace--at least in WvW, I for one don't expect Mace to last long in sPvP due to it literally being designed as support/bunker.   

[Yasai.3549]

On 11/1/2023 at 8:51 PM, psizone.8437 said:

Post it in the WvW and Guardian forums, they get real mad when someone says Willbender is broken.

How Guardian mains act whenever someone suggests to nerf the Elite Virtue refresh is hilarious. Highly recommend poking them just to see the reactions.

[Silvoshipnos.2089]

13 hours ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

have a decent duelist in condi

I think decent it's a bit of a stretch. You're still going to get destroyed by any willbenders or harbingers (except for the really terrible ones) and any average mesmer is going to give you a really hard time. Condi soulbeast is at the bottom of the list of viable builds for dueling.

[Gotejjeken.1267]

11 hours ago, Silvoshipnos.2089 said:

I think decent it's a bit of a stretch. You're still going to get destroyed by any willbenders or harbingers (except for the really terrible ones) and any average mesmer is going to give you a really hard time. Condi soulbeast is at the bottom of the list of viable builds for dueling.

To clarify, above I'm talking about condi untamed being a decent duelist--I agree that condi soulbeast is lacking as the merge skills are not up to par with what unleashed pet skills can do. 

The only change that made condi untamed 'decent' for me is the double ambush, you can do a lot of things with that which doesn't exist on soulbeast and is only marginally outclassed by Druid because of Celestial Shadow.  

I have some roaming here with a build I'm still working on for Untamed and my normal Druid roaming build:

This one is before the new relics, so believe I was just using speed and Dire stats? Anyway, it gives some idea of my thoughts on roaming with condi variants of both Druid and Untamed.

[Mell.4873]

On 11/21/2023 at 3:29 AM, Silvoshipnos.2089 said:

At least with respect to WvW, the thing is that the game isn't balanced around roaming, except when it comes to nerfing ranger but that's because rangers should only be allowed to play druid in zergs

That's not entirely true, there is a type of Zerg called a pirate ship that longbow Soulbeast and Untamed do very well at. Chaining Barrages together is one of my favourite playstyles in WvW Zergs. 

[Yasai.3549]

10 hours ago, Mell.4873 said:

That's not entirely true, there is a type of Zerg called a pirate ship that longbow Soulbeast and Untamed do very well at. Chaining Barrages together is one of my favourite playstyles in WvW Zergs. 

If I were steering that ship anyone who is barraging is gonna get left behind cos I'm not doing a ranged comp and sitting still so a boon deathball runs me over. 

Pirateship is just a failboat (pun intended) because a boon deathball clashing into you with cleaves is just gonna decimate you before you can peel away. 

Edited November 23, 2023 by Yasai.3549

[Mell.4873]

1 hour ago, Yasai.3549 said:

If I were steering that ship anyone who is barraging is gonna get left behind cos I'm not doing a ranged comp and sitting still so a boon deathball runs me over. 

Pirateship is just a failboat (pun intended) because a boon deathball clashing into you with cleaves is just gonna decimate you before you can peel away. 

True but that is why pirate ship is a very particular counter to another type of Zerg a swarm. Commander normally will target players who you pick off. 

[Lazze.9870]

On 11/21/2023 at 10:45 PM, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

Where in the PvP meta, exactly? 

The latest Untamed PvP build was hotfixed nerfed due to being a bunker--that one didn't use UT at all.  

You know what it did use? Neurotoxin Burst, which has been nerfed I believe three times now in sPvP, to the point to where, in persistent g2/g3 and above, I have never seen an Untamed use it.  I've seen Solar Brilliance a few times, and by and large still Sword variant Soulbeasts--but have not fought an offensive Dagger untamed (ex: non-bunker) yet in over hundred games between the last two seasons.

But power untamed? Completely and utterly relied on that teleburst, hasn't been 'meta' since late last year / early this year at best.  The power meta since then was soulbeast, but they took a nuke to it in both PvP and WvW.  

yOu kNow whaT iT dID usE!???

Dude, I'm talking about how power untamed managed just fine in the meta (a kittening difference from "being meta") without the teleport, especially with the Let Loose update prior to them removing the fury from it. There is a ridiculous huge twitch archive of boyce kicking kitten on it for months after the port gutting.

I know what the "last untamed" build is and that it's already nerfed, because every kittening ranger build with a hint of bunker capability to it always get whipped within a month or two. Nothing new.

Edited November 23, 2023 by Lazze.9870

[Lazze.9870]

+

13 hours ago, Mell.4873 said:

That's not entirely true, there is a type of Zerg called a pirate ship that longbow Soulbeast and Untamed do very well at. Chaining Barrages together is one of my favourite playstyles in WvW Zergs. 

The fact that people cling to that playstyle says everything about how sad the state of dps ranger in zergs are.

They finally made druid capable of what it was supposed to do. We just have to wait and see how long it takes for them to release a decent zerg weapon that soulbeast/untamed can make use of.

[Gotejjeken.1267]

9 hours ago, Lazze.9870 said:

Dude, I'm talking about how power untamed managed just fine in the meta (a kittening difference from "being meta") without the teleport

Anything can manage just fine in the meta as long as you outskill your opponents lol.  

Of course, Boyce could do fine without the teleport as...it's Boyce?

I can solo q into plat with immob Druid in late 2023 after about 5 nerfs and 3 adjustments to hammer it into a 'support' role, and in a super invuln / tank / projectile hate meta at that...does it mean it's good? No...