upcoming relic... no golemancer... Starting to really dislike this relic system...

[Sobx.1758]

1 hour ago, Zzik.5873 said:

Only stupid thing they did is take my golem away

That was actually one of the smart things they did with relics. But them being soulbound is weird.

Edited November 13, 2023 by Sobx.1758

[Fueki.4753]

31 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

That was actually one of the smart things they did with relics.

Because taking away people's fun is oh-so-smart, when there's literally no need to.

Edited November 13, 2023 by Fueki.4753

[kharmin.7683]

2 minutes ago, Fueki.4753 said:

Because taking away people's fun is oh-so-smart, when there's literally no need to.

C'mon, it's Anet.  You act like they've never taken away certain players' fun before.

[Fueki.4753]

35 minutes ago, kharmin.7683 said:

C'mon, it's Anet.  You act like they've never taken away certain players' fun before.

Of course I'm no stranger to that. But doing it again and again doesn't mean it's a smart thing to do.

Edited November 13, 2023 by Fueki.4753

[kharmin.7683]

8 minutes ago, Fueki.4753 said:

Of course I'm no stranger to that. But doing it again and again doesn't mean it's a smart thing to do.

C'mon, it's Anet.  You act like they've done smart things before.

[Sobx.1758]

45 minutes ago, Fueki.4753 said:

Because taking away people's fun is oh-so-smart, when there's literally no need to.

Any change can be "taking away someone's fun", so what meaning is this supposed to have? Nerf? Took away someone's fun. Buff? Took away someone's fun. Whatever change? Took away someone's fun.

[raykor.6723]

I've been here since launch. There have been many wonderful changes and many changes that I didn't like. But this rune & relic change has disappointed me more than anything they've done before.

[Fueki.4753]

1 hour ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Any change can be "taking away someone's fun", so what meaning is this supposed to have? Nerf? Took away someone's fun. Buff? Took away someone's fun. Whatever change? Took away someone's fun.

It's not a change, it's been a straight up removal of the summoning effects.

A change would imply that we got relics that can summon things now. We didn't get those.

 

Edited November 13, 2023 by Fueki.4753

[Sobx.1758]

1 minute ago, Fueki.4753 said:

It's not a change, it's been a straight up removal.

A change implies that they something has been given in return. That did not happen for the summoning rune effects.

It's a change to a system and an attempt to make those effects more active. It is a change. And it did get something in return. Like... the main point of that change is what you got in return.

Edited November 13, 2023 by Sobx.1758

[Fueki.4753]

1 minute ago, Sobx.1758 said:

It's a change to a system and an attempt to make those effects more active. It is a change. And it did get something in return. Like... the main point of that change is what you got in return.

As already said, we got literally nothing in return for losing the summoning effects.

The relics we lost may make up for other lost effects, but not for the summoning effects.

[Sobx.1758]

7 minutes ago, Fueki.4753 said:

As already said, we got literally nothing in return for losing the summoning effects.

The relics we lost may make up for other lost effects, but not for the summoning effects.

It's a system change and your weird overfocusing on "summoning effects" is irrelevant to anything, let alone to deciding whether this is "a change" or not. The point of the change was never your made up focus on keeping "summoning effects", so not sure what you're talking about here in the first place. 

As already said: It's a change to a system and an attempt to make those effects more active -and removal of passive summons playing by themselves (either indefinitely or until they come up with a more active way of having them) is a direct part of that change.

Edited November 13, 2023 by Sobx.1758

[Fueki.4753]

5 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

your weird overfocusing on "summoning effects" is irrelevant to anything

The topic of this thread literally is the loss of one of the summoning effects, so it's very relevant to the topic.

Edited November 13, 2023 by Fueki.4753

[Sobx.1758]

5 minutes ago, Fueki.4753 said:

It's literally the topic of the thread, so it's very relevant to the topic.

Are you lost in this comment chain?

2 hours ago, Fueki.4753 said:

Because taking away people's fun is oh-so-smart, when there's literally no need to.

2 hours ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Any change can be "taking away someone's fun", so what meaning is this supposed to have? Nerf? Took away someone's fun. Buff? Took away someone's fun. Whatever change? Took away someone's fun.

 

Your "argument" was that the change shouldn't happen because it took away [someone's] fun. Then my response and your subsequent swap into "but this is not a change because no summon". Wat.
Yes, it is a change and we've been told what the goal of it is.

Edited November 13, 2023 by Sobx.1758

[Sugar Min.5834]

Since when are you allowed to have fun these days? 

Discover a fun, decent build? Count your blessings if they just nerfed it and not kill that build in the name of balance and changes (like the removal of summon skills on runes).
They nerf or and sometimes kill individual professions on their "balance" patches.
They give practically every trash mobs knock down skills and stun skills or whatever they can throw in, not to kill you, but just to frustrate your combat process.
They tied half the MPs needed for your new mastery to meta or achievement grinds.
And now, even QoL fun is not spared. They see more and more hall decorators are having fun, so they decided to put a grind and time gate wall on mats for scribing.

This is present day ArenaNet.

Edited November 13, 2023 by Sugar Min.5834

[Zzik.5873]

4 hours ago, Fueki.4753 said:

The topic of this thread literally is the loss of one of the summoning effects, so it's very relevant to the topic.

Youre right I started this topic only because I lost my golem, the relic system in itself aint my issue, my issue is the removal of summon rune effect!

[Ashen.2907]

6 hours ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Any change can be "taking away someone's fun", so what meaning is this supposed to have? Nerf? Took away someone's fun. Buff? Took away someone's fun. Whatever change? Took away someone's fun.

There is a pretty big difference between tweaking some numbers as part of a nerf pass and actually removing content from the game.

[Zzik.5873]

1 minute ago, Ashen.2907 said:

There is a pretty big difference between tweaking some numbers as part of a nerf pass and actually removing content from the game.

THANKS!

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

For rp purposes I had rune of the lich on my revenant.

I miss my little necrominion summon. 😞

I miss the ogre pet and golemancer ones too, but not as much.

Also miss the fleshreaver sigil, in all honesty. That and rune of the lich made minion master more fun and more minion mastery.

[Sobx.1758]

12 hours ago, Ashen.2907 said:

There is a pretty big difference between tweaking some numbers as part of a nerf pass and actually removing content from the game.

And that responds to what I wrote in my posts how excatly? I write about change of the systems, you're writing about... "tweaking some numbers"? Where did that come from exactly? You actually think the only thing that qualifies as a "change" is... "some number tweaking"? Because it doesn't, it's a very limited way of looking at system/balance passes and it's not how it works at all. Not here and not anywhere else.

Edited November 14, 2023 by Sobx.1758

[Zzik.5873]

20 hours ago, Sobx.1758 said:

And that responds to what I wrote in my posts how excatly? I write about change of the systems, you're writing about... "tweaking some numbers"? Where did that come from exactly? You actually think the only thing that qualifies as a "change" is... "some number tweaking"? Because it doesn't, it's a very limited way of looking at system/balance passes and it's not how it works at all. Not here and not anywhere else.

They did remove content via this system change. Also this famous system change seem to have been poorly taugh, its not just the removal of certain rune effect. The whole rune system is now a mess. The relics change was poorly design, the idea on paper sound good, but in praticse, its a mess.

[kharmin.7683]

Ok, so how exactly is it a mess.  Can you be more specific?

[Zera.9435]

On 11/7/2023 at 8:21 AM, idpersona.3810 said:

Anecdotal, but I don't fall into that category.

Sanctuary runes losing their tier 6 ability broke my WvW character build, along with other changes in the same patch. There was/is nothing remotely comparable so that build is just no longer viable. 
My golemancer character had to be completely reworked.
I had a couple of characters with Vampirism runes. Those builds don't really work anymore.

For simplicity, most of my power character/builds are just using the Thief relic now.

I think in total, across 40-50 characters/builds I'm only using about 4 or 5 different relics. And because playing around with builds is much more inconvenient now (without being able to use my legendary runes to change the 6th tier), I've just kind of abandoned/parked several character I used to play regularly.

For me personally, the relic/rune change did diminish my fun in the game. I've got half a bank tab dedicated to storing the expansion relics, which I didn't have to deal with before. For anyone that crafted all their legendary runes, this move was a huge step backwards.

Ah I see, it seems like perhaps they made the change to make balancing easier for themselves. Less changing factors to work with.

[idpersona.3810]

5 minutes ago, Zera.9435 said:

Ah I see, it seems like perhaps they made the change to make balancing easier for themselves. Less changing factors to work with.

That's possible. The summons runes never seemed overpowered, but I don't really know how the background coding on them worked. Maybe there was some exploit to them with the new relic system implemented. Maybe they just dropped them because they decided enough players didn't use them. We don;t have any way to know for sure.

[Zera.9435]

12 minutes ago, idpersona.3810 said:

That's possible. The summons runes never seemed overpowered, but I don't really know how the background coding on them worked. Maybe there was some exploit to them with the new relic system implemented. Maybe they just dropped them because they decided enough players didn't use them. We don;t have any way to know for sure.

Perhaps, but I was just getting flashbacks to GW1 and why GW2 went in a completely different direction with skills. GW1 was a balancing nightmare for the devs. The skill system was more powerful than the devs due to player ingenuity with combinations. The relic situation made me think of that.

[Ashantara.8731]

Wiki states that there will be more Core Relics released in the future, so there is still a chance your Golemancer effect might be among those.