Rifle Mesmers Direct Allies to the Nearest Emergency Exit

[draxynnic.3719]

17 minutes ago, HotDelirium.7984 said:

Would be so cool if that's what the ambush skill is

I'm now imagining the ambush being you and all of your clones lining up sniper shots like a rifle deadeye. Not as powerful, obviously, but that sort of feel.

[ShadowKatt.6740]

2 hours ago, Assolador.3598 said:

Im litterally using torch and scepter right now, can solo a team of silver players, how is it not good, lmfao

Is that so? I'd love to know how.

I'm actually not as negative as a lot of other people here (for a change) when it comes to the scepter. I'll admit that the scepter isn't the highest performing weapon but I don't think it's as bad as people make it out to be. But I will maintain that it's not the best weapon we have. It's biggest strength lies in its clone creation which is auxilliary to other functions. I use a scepter with my chronomancer for a shatterstorm build. I use a torch on a different build but that's more of a meme build, using its invisibility and all the other invisibility to make a super sneaky but otherwise utterly useless build. I still think the torch is a waste of a weapon that doesn't really benefit us at all. But that doesn't mean I'm not curious that it could be, so I'm curious as to how you make this combo work.

[Curunen.8729]

1 hour ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

I'm now imagining the ambush being you and all of your clones lining up sniper shots like a rifle deadeye. Not as powerful, obviously, but that sort of feel.

That would be so cool. Illusionary ambush with this would look so stylish. Click click, boom! 😄

[Doam.8305]

56 minutes ago, ShadowKatt.6740 said:

Is that so? I'd love to know how.

I'm actually not as negative as a lot of other people here (for a change) when it comes to the scepter. I'll admit that the scepter isn't the highest performing weapon but I don't think it's as bad as people make it out to be. But I will maintain that it's not the best weapon we have. It's biggest strength lies in its clone creation which is auxilliary to other functions. I use a scepter with my chronomancer for a shatterstorm build. I use a torch on a different build but that's more of a meme build, using its invisibility and all the other invisibility to make a super sneaky but otherwise utterly useless build. I still think the torch is a waste of a weapon that doesn't really benefit us at all. But that doesn't mean I'm not curious that it could be, so I'm curious as to how you make this combo work.

I've actually recently have had great success with the torch and scepter. Pairing it with relic of the Unseen Invasion. Which grants super speed to allies whenever the player uses stealth. The scepter merely stacks confusion quickly and can probably be swapped out but Im testing for a nov 28 support build.

You pop the torch stealth and your party can run down other players in pvp, champ kryptis, or run out of AoE in a flash. Unlike with glamours you can keep it up making repositioning in group play trivial.

[LichOverlord.6329]

18 hours ago, Provocative.3561 said:

Underwhelmed. When I think of rifle and how other classes use the weapon, I think of mobility-CC-long range damage. I was expecting a stun or daze and an ability to blink forward for kite/catch or phase backward. Granting aoe, seems cool, especially in team fight scenarios, but mesmers kit doesn’t necessarily align with support. Slowly we’ve seen a progression of mesmer being able to grant Allie’s boons in various ways over time, opposed to the old heal Allie’s with phantasms that granted regeneration-inspiration trait line, like mantras healing on channel. The idea is there, but mesmer lacks the fundamentals to be considered support. 
Through time we’ve seen chrono be a powerful weapon and shelter in all kinds of fights. Granting aoe boons(from wells), heals. Weapons like Shield offering various boons based on patch. Not even mentioning core ult time warp, glamours, mantras, the weapon staff in general, chaos vortex etc. The idea for mesmer to support  is there but lacks a stronger foundation, to make it pop. 
Mesmer is a high mobility high damage mage class that utilizes chaos, misdirection and dominates fights when played well. What would give mesmer more “magier” things while leaning into support, is allowing boons granted to self allow it to aoe to Allie’s. Things like mirage cloak ambush ability use granting what is given to mesmer, but also to Allie’s. Things like chrono offering more boons to Allie’s when it shatters, not just quickness or alacrity but also might and fury maybe resistance? A chaos armor. Like for example, bountiful disillusionment could be granting Allie’s all those boons and it’s only to the mesmer currently. 
 

I play mesmer zerker, even if I’m support, something as an easy build tab switch for a build I made to lead the team to victory whether that be in pve pvp or WvW setting. Mesmer does offer ways to speed up their team, increase their damage, lock down enemies. And the introduction of relics has opened other ways of adding magier/supporty utility for that team aspect. Being so, I think mesmer could use a mage/support buff, to grant more boons via mirage ambush or chrono or shatters in general since that’s what I see it leaning to. Wouldn’t they compliment the already Implanted idea of granting particular boons to Allie’s, allow mesmer to grant more. 

I dont disagree with some of what you're saying, and I think you're making some good points, but what you're addressing here is much more core to the class toolkit itself and how it handles support, boons, etc.

A weapon isn't going to allow a class to support by itself - it's only going to enhance the support coming from the other abilities and traits of the class

The idea is that this weapon will work with the changes coming to mesmer healing in the balance patch on the 28th, but yes, I do think that they can go farther with this and allow for more support options for mesmer - but that's something that will have to be addressed at the fundamental class level in a balance patch, and not via a weapon

[ShadowKatt.6740]

30 minutes ago, Doam.8305 said:

I've actually recently have had great success with the torch and scepter. Pairing it with relic of the Unseen Invasion. Which grants super speed to allies whenever the player uses stealth. The scepter merely stacks confusion quickly and can probably be swapped out but Im testing for a nov 28 support build.

You pop the torch stealth and your party can run down other players in pvp, champ kryptis, or run out of AoE in a flash. Unlike with glamours you can keep it up making repositioning in group play trivial.

Okay, well I don't pvp so that part's worthless to me. And the purrson I was responding to also said silver players, which I'm pretty sure is a pvp category so I was already taking what they said with an enormous grain of salt. As for the rest....

Champ kryptis....I don't understand this. I've never had to chase down a kryptis before so I'm not sure what you mean by that. Is this a rift I've never done before or some kind of other content I just haven't made it to? Where do you have to chase kryptis? And then running out of AoEs. I can see where you're coming from, although I usually take a different approach. If I can get out of an AoE I do, sure. But if I can't, and especially if it's a blast AoE, a dodge roll works just fine. Now, you said PvP, so MAYBE you're talking about the "AoE" that happens when, say, two zergs collide and it turns into a literal No Mans Land between them, which I'm not sure I'd handle any differently, Run out, dodge roll, or since I use a staff, just teleport out of it, but I think I at least grasp the concept you're trying to get across. And the you mentione glamours and group positioning....the torch doesn't stealth other people, as far as I know (I just checked, no it doesn't) so I'm not sure I understand what you mean. While it's true that glamours like Veil require you to throw it in front of your party to hide them, we're just talking about you here, and you can always throw your glamours where you want them. But again I feel like you're applying this to a PvP situation that I have very little experience with and very little interest in (I'm a sore loser).

[LichOverlord.6329]

16 hours ago, Doam.8305 said:

I mention both World of Warcraft and Final Fantasy 14 have the same mechanic minus the choice. To port to your location means to port to a safe spot if you were in a trolling position that means the mesmer themselves would have to physical be in that trolling location at the time of cast. Its not a create a port to a soon to be death field, drag over pit, or plummet to death but the exact position of the caster. In addition this game is pigeon held by short distance boon support the mesmer and everyone else will be in that small bubble as players have been taught since their first world boss. So even bad support is just going to pull stragglers to the epicenter of the zerg for boonshare with everyone else.

The technique is a god send because you waste a ton of energy healing people who merely stand in fire or stand in a soon to be nuked location. Even people that run ahead or get close enough to aggro something that shouldnt be aggroed can be corrected.

It's a tried and true MMO staple at this point for healers to physical reposition players and it helps the saved player learn as well without the death. 

As for rifle its aura sharing is coming before the rifle and as a support weapon we have other supports. Mantra and wells if people choose to play it will no doubt benefit from rifle both of which can be played with power.

That said its niche anyway as I said we stack and zerg against meta bosses so Im sorta lost on why a technique like this is even needed as why would anyone run out of a zerg. The few instances when players become bombs in strikes and whatnot they avoid the zerg but they also avoid overlapping the bomb with each other so they are to spread out for this to help their either. Our bosses are too stationary and dont posses mechanics for subgroups other then lets say a mordremoth with the tail and head but even then its seperated by platforms.

Depending on the range of the skill, im sure this will also see use in smaller encounters where people aren't always stacked up (like dungeons or fractals), and will definetly see use in certain fights for me, personally

Off the top of my head, a portal skill with a much shorter cooldown like this would be useful in any dungeon and any fractal, especially those that require "move or die" mechanics like Sunqua (hide behind rocks), or Aetherblade (laser walls), etc.

They'd also be useful on-demand in raid fights like: Spirit Woods, Sabetha (save bombers/flak from the burn wall), Slothasor (poison evac), Xera (move dps to clear pylons), Cairn (greens), Mursaat (spikes), Deimos (oils), Desmina (fire walls), Dhuum (bombs/post-gaze), Qadim (platforms, pyres, maybe lamp), Cardinal Adina (pillars), and once again for Qadim (pylons)

That's 12 raid encounters right off the top of my head in which an on-demand short-cooldown portal would be useful, and I guarantee you all I will personally be using it in all of these, not to mention strikes

If you dont think having on-demand portals attached to a weapon skill instead of a 60 second cooldown is useful, then you're just not being creative enough tbh

 

 

 

[Doam.8305]

32 minutes ago, ShadowKatt.6740 said:

Okay, well I don't pvp so that part's worthless to me. And the purrson I was responding to also said silver players, which I'm pretty sure is a pvp category so I was already taking what they said with an enormous grain of salt. As for the rest....

Champ kryptis....I don't understand this. I've never had to chase down a kryptis before so I'm not sure what you mean by that. Is this a rift I've never done before or some kind of other content I just haven't made it to? Where do you have to chase kryptis? And then running out of AoEs. I can see where you're coming from, although I usually take a different approach. If I can get out of an AoE I do, sure. But if I can't, and especially if it's a blast AoE, a dodge roll works just fine. Now, you said PvP, so MAYBE you're talking about the "AoE" that happens when, say, two zergs collide and it turns into a literal No Mans Land between them, which I'm not sure I'd handle any differently, Run out, dodge roll, or since I use a staff, just teleport out of it, but I think I at least grasp the concept you're trying to get across. And the you mentione glamours and group positioning....the torch doesn't stealth other people, as far as I know (I just checked, no it doesn't) so I'm not sure I understand what you mean. While it's true that glamours like Veil require you to throw it in front of your party to hide them, we're just talking about you here, and you can always throw your glamours where you want them. But again I feel like you're applying this to a PvP situation that I have very little experience with and very little interest in (I'm a sore loser).

Oh 

 

32 minutes ago, ShadowKatt.6740 said:

Okay, well I don't pvp so that part's worthless to me. And the purrson I was responding to also said silver players, which I'm pretty sure is a pvp category so I was already taking what they said with an enormous grain of salt. As for the rest....

Champ kryptis....I don't understand this. I've never had to chase down a kryptis before so I'm not sure what you mean by that. Is this a rift I've never done before or some kind of other content I just haven't made it to? Where do you have to chase kryptis? And then running out of AoEs. I can see where you're coming from, although I usually take a different approach. If I can get out of an AoE I do, sure. But if I can't, and especially if it's a blast AoE, a dodge roll works just fine. Now, you said PvP, so MAYBE you're talking about the "AoE" that happens when, say, two zergs collide and it turns into a literal No Mans Land between them, which I'm not sure I'd handle any differently, Run out, dodge roll, or since I use a staff, just teleport out of it, but I think I at least grasp the concept you're trying to get across. And the you mentione glamours and group positioning....the torch doesn't stealth other people, as far as I know (I just checked, no it doesn't) so I'm not sure I understand what you mean. While it's true that glamours like Veil require you to throw it in front of your party to hide them, we're just talking about you here, and you can always throw your glamours where you want them. But again I feel like you're applying this to a PvP situation that I have very little experience with and very little interest in (I'm a sore loser).

Oh in Amnytas Bastion event that deals with Lyhr two champion Kryptis spawn at one point. I have no idea what the heck is up with the one on near the stairs. However that champion will stop then start bolting to one side of the room run up one flight of staira across the top down the other flight and reset back then do it all over again multiple times as people chase from behind. In addition the rider kryptis will charge and there is the one that leaves a trail of fire behind as it dances around.

As for Aoe I was thinking Strikes something like Boneskinner that requires people to move around the boss.

There is a trait that grants superspeed  and resistance to allies under glamours.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Relic_of_the_Unseen_Invasion

Whenever a player uses stealth their allies get 2 seconds of speed with a 5s Cd. Its not for you to move out of danger but to grant other people like a straggler to move out of danger. Better relics exist no doubt but this one seems unique as its something you can build around.

[Gesbo.6420]

3 hours ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

I'm now imagining the ambush being you and all of your clones lining up sniper shots like a rifle deadeye. Not as powerful, obviously, but that sort of feel.

Maybe allowing you to retargrt clones on your current target too! That would be unique and nifty

[mirage.8046]

Im hoping for rifle ambush to be chaotic for real: perhaps you fire a fast cursed bullet that converts boons into torment or confusion while rolling backward. enemies who weren't targeted are inflicted with weakness and take additional confusion or torment damage.

[Roadkizzle.2157]

3 hours ago, LichOverlord.6329 said:

I dont disagree with some of what you're saying, and I think you're making some good points, but what you're addressing here is much more core to the class toolkit itself and how it handles support, boons, etc.

A weapon isn't going to allow a class to support by itself - it's only going to enhance the support coming from the other abilities and traits of the class

The idea is that this weapon will work with the changes coming to mesmer healing in the balance patch on the 28th, but yes, I do think that they can go farther with this and allow for more support options for mesmer - but that's something that will have to be addressed at the fundamental class level in a balance patch, and not via a weapon

My main concern is the Mesmer healing and boons are tied to generating clones and shattering. In the video I saw clones but it looked like they were only being generated one at a time.

 

It looked like something generated a clone or Phantasm on the rear side of the enemy.

But I'm thinking there's definitely a possibility that Scepter or staff will generate clones faster than the rifle.

So while the rifle may have more utility for a support class the scepter and staff may be better for fitting in with the trait lines to provide boons and healing.

[draxynnic.3719]

I do find this 'torch sucks' discussion a bit strange since there have been times when torch was meta. It's not at the moment, to be sure, but with as many offhands as mesmer has, they can't all be the best DPS offhand available.

[ShadowKatt.6740]

1 hour ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

I do find this 'torch sucks' discussion a bit strange since there have been times when torch was meta. It's not at the moment, to be sure, but with as many offhands as mesmer has, they can't all be the best DPS offhand available.

When was that? I clearly missed it.

[Roadkizzle.2157]

15 minutes ago, ShadowKatt.6740 said:

When was that? I clearly missed it.

Well until the latest patch when Relic of Akeem was nerfed I believe the meta Chaos Virtuoso build used Torch.

 

Edit: well technically probably not meta. But definitely the recommended off hand for the highest DPS mesmer spec on Snowcrows.

Edited November 15, 2023 by Roadkizzle.2157

[Eekasqueak.7850]

Condi DPS mirage used to use torch too. 

[Levetty.1279]

Warrior and Mesmer really did get shafted hard by these "new mechanics" the weapons are supposed to have. Somebody is obviously playing favorites again.

[ZephidelGRS.9520]

But you don't have to use it as a portal gun, it's (presumably from what's written) a ground-targeted skill similar to Necro's Serpent Siphon. You drop the AoE on people and they get barriers, heal and boons. The portal thing is more an additional unique option rather than its main function. 

[ShadowKatt.6740]

You know, on the note of Portal gun, it would have been REALLY cool if we could have played with that. Imagine if we had a rifle that couldn't be obstructed because we just teleport the bullets at people. You'd still need to get line of sight to target someone, but after that....shoot through walls.

[Varis.5467]

19 hours ago, vrauns.3215 said:

You already have a portal skill that can port more, so.

So with this theoretical context of "emergency" assigned to the identity of the rifle, by Anet, I expect to toss out the portal on short notice. 

Given the assumed urgency of these so called "emergency" situations, I am NOT going to:

- pre-emptively set up a utility portal with a 1 min reactivation window that could expire before it is needed

- rely on a portal that is fixed in placed instead of being 'shot' to the target in need

-waste a valuable utility slot if the fight IS actually that intense (or that my party really need clutches that much)

But of cause, the rifle 'emergency escape plan' is a band-aid solution at best if not just a meme. 

If your party is struggling so much, where your strategy is to save one and only one of them, so the two of you can res the other 3, there are bigger fundamental issues at hand. 

 

So no, I won't take normal portal for these "emergency" in the rifel's tag line. 

 

[Levetty.1279]

6 hours ago, ZephidelGRS.9520 said:

heal and boons

heal OR boons

The two things Chrono healer is currently bad at at the moment is might generation and healing. The Rifle forces Mesmer to chose to do one or the other making it pointless, and using the terrible well pulsing mechanic as an extra insult too.

[draxynnic.3719]

16 hours ago, ShadowKatt.6740 said:

When was that? I clearly missed it.

As has already been said - the Relic of Akeem did it, but that was an anomaly. More importantly, it was used on double axe condi mirage, and I think it was used on condi chrono back in the day. You don't see it with condi virtuoso partially because that build is somewhat more of a hybrid, and partially because cvirt naturally relies more on bleeds through Sharper Images. These factors combine to make normally power-oriented phantasms with multiple strikes more valuable for cvirt than a single blast of flame.

[Solo.6873]

I cant really speak to the most recent events but,

 

Torch was meta when mirage was first introduced on both Power and condi builds in WvW and pvp, mainly for the stealth burst for power and the added burning for the condi builds. x/torch was a very common pairing on mirage . ( until anet nerfed it below the ground and used it as fertilizer. yes i am still bitter)

[Curunen.8729]

I wonder if they might change barrier's visual effect a bit from yellow to something that fits with all colour schemes - like they did with alacrity from a pink flame to a white and rainbow flame after everyone got given it.

Also rewatching the video I can see where people mention the possible skill 2 clone summon following that kneel - though the shot through the pink portal with massive aoe on the target looks quite visually intense for what usually are low cooldown skills, unless I'm not seeing the editing in the video correctly and that's actually a different skill. Hopefully the kneel is only when stationary, but can equally be used while moving.

[Every day pon.5386]

On 11/14/2023 at 2:16 PM, Provocative.3561 said:

Underwhelmed. When I think of rifle and how other classes use the weapon, I think of mobility-CC-long range damage. I was expecting a stun or daze and an ability to blink forward for kite/catch or phase backward. Granting aoe, seems cool, especially in team fight scenarios, but mesmers kit doesn’t necessarily align with support. Slowly we’ve seen a progression of mesmer being able to grant Allie’s boons in various ways over time, opposed to the old heal Allie’s with phantasms that granted regeneration-inspiration trait line, like mantras healing on channel. The idea is there, but mesmer lacks the fundamentals to be considered support. 
Through time we’ve seen chrono be a powerful weapon and shelter in all kinds of fights. Granting aoe boons(from wells), heals. Weapons like Shield offering various boons based on patch. Not even mentioning core ult time warp, glamours, mantras, the weapon staff in general, chaos vortex etc. The idea for mesmer to support  is there but lacks a stronger foundation, to make it pop. 
Mesmer is a high mobility high damage mage class that utilizes chaos, misdirection and dominates fights when played well. What would give mesmer more “magier” things while leaning into support, is allowing boons granted to self allow it to aoe to Allie’s. Things like mirage cloak ambush ability use granting what is given to mesmer, but also to Allie’s. Things like chrono offering more boons to Allie’s when it shatters, not just quickness or alacrity but also might and fury maybe resistance? A chaos armor. Like for example, bountiful disillusionment could be granting Allie’s all those boons and it’s only to the mesmer currently. 
 

I play mesmer zerker, even if I’m support, something as an easy build tab switch for a build I made to lead the team to victory whether that be in pve pvp or WvW setting. Mesmer does offer ways to speed up their team, increase their damage, lock down enemies. And the introduction of relics has opened other ways of adding magier/supporty utility for that team aspect. Being so, I think mesmer could use a mage/support buff, to grant more boons via mirage ambush or chrono or shatters in general since that’s what I see it leaning to. Wouldn’t they compliment the already Implanted idea of granting particular boons to Allie’s, allow mesmer to grant more. 

👏 a support instrument, like Horn.. a Rifle is some Inquest vibe..

[SoulGuardian.6203]

Could we, possibly, have a main hand pistol instead?

Or maybe have both?

If that's not to much to ask?

Thay would be tremendously awesome. 

Edited November 18, 2023 by SoulGuardian.6203