Where does Elementalist shine?

[noneHotBuildTest.7251]

On 11/24/2023 at 6:33 PM, TrollingDemigod.3041 said:

Yyy.. this... I mean... Ele's would probably get #1 place in being the most in downed state out of all classes I think.
Also we shine in our rotations that include being in downed state most of the time.
That's about it.

Elementalist downed state meta continues

[Zok.4956]

On 11/24/2023 at 11:33 AM, TrollingDemigod.3041 said:

Also we shine in our rotations that include being in downed state most of the time.

This is called a "tactical down" and there is no shame in it. 😇

[tenju.1290]

And so it seems, Elementalist shines the floor best

[Kheros.7256]

I’m not a game designer but I don’t think that having no reward for mastering a class with complicated rotations and probably the class that is punished the hardest when you make a mistake, is good design. 
 

I love elementalist complicated rotations and pushing buttons, but you make 1 mistake and your dps drops by a large amount, also you have to pretty much perfectly dodge everything. Even if you manage to do all that, keep perfect rotation while dodging everything, your reward is same dps or lower dps than others.
 

Also if your only job/role is to bring dps why should I pick you?, if you will most likely be in down state and reduce others dps because people have to rez you.

i don’t want ele to be easier, but it should be more rewarding for the effort, complexity  and flawless play level you need to do. 

[Dadnir.5038]

When reading this I realize that elementalist shine in the shadow of the vocal playerbase's prejudices.

[Arheundel.6451]

11 hours ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

When reading this I realize that elementalist shine in the shadow of the vocal playerbase's prejudices.

You're just a troll with no video proof of any sort...or any proof whatsoever to back up any of his ridiculous meme claims. You're so full of it....most of what you say it's cringy. You may want to add some actual contributing commentary to a discussion if you can...rather than bussing around with your pub jokes to get a few laughs out of the myriad trolls populating the forums

[ScottBroChill.3254]

Takes the most advantage from Celestial stats, more fun, and is on and off the highest theoretical dps, also large toolset with the 4 attunements for pvp that allows it to be a really decent bunker with a lot of active healing and defence. Slippery.

But in general DPS is probably it's biggest strength in a team composition. Pure healing is also the highest in the game, or was the highest. Either way I think it's up there on the healing output. 

Fire Wizard.

[Ace.1784]

On 11/24/2023 at 2:00 PM, Helgaley.3619 said:

If Anet wants the professions to be balanced in terms of numbers and roles they can fulfill but not balanced in terms of design and complexity, then that is inherently going to lead to the current situation where certain professions are left behind because there is no reward for mastering them. The average player is always going to lean towards bringing professions that offer the highest output for the lowest effort, and I just want to be clear that I think that's perfectly fine. It's fun, you know you're contributing, and unlike complex professions like Elementalist, you aren't going to feel like a burden to the group by either being in downstate all the time or making mistakes in your rotation that ruin your output. 

It's important to note that the opposite is also true. If ele was the "above and beyond" highest dps class, then players would be punished for not being able to play/perform with that class. If the elementalist DPS is incrementally better, then we have the same discussion as now, where it's not worth it over the "utility".  

 

On 11/24/2023 at 2:00 PM, Helgaley.3619 said:

The point I think others are getting at, myself included, is that if complexity and effort is not rewarded, then people aren't going to want to play it. It's that simple. If the profession cannot do anything that other professions can't do better for less effort, then that is fundamentally bad game design that, as you've said yourself, doesn't discourage people from bringing that profession in their groups because it discourages the average player from wanting to play that profession in the first place. 

Believe it or not, there are people who do enjoy something for the sake of enjoying it. Personally, the only reason why I play GW2 is because of the elementalist's design and how unique it is to anything else out there. 

Since the beginning of this game, Elementalist has ALWAYS been advertised as the class where, "you have double the buttons. Individually, they're weaker, in concert, you can pull of some effects". If this idea aligns with you, Elementalist is probably a good class for you to play. This is to say, by design, Elementalist is the class that doesn't have a singular, "i win" button but rather, a sequence of actions. When you view the balance of Elementalist from this perspective, the choices, elite specs, and weapons make sense; moreover, you can then begin to offer feedback inline with the goals of the class.

If you don't like these ideas, then it's not a problem of Elementalist being bad game design, but rather, you don't like the goals of Elementalist--and that's okay.

 

On 12/1/2023 at 10:10 AM, Kheros.7256 said:

i don’t want ele to be easier, but it should be more rewarding for the effort, complexity  and flawless play level you need to do. 

The reward is that you play well.

To answer the prompt for myself, I think Elementalist shines in situations where flexibility is needed. For me this is most obvious in medium-large scale WvW, where you can alternate between support and damage, strategically identifying when to augment CC efforts, bombs, and recovery/positioning. When I play other classes in WvW, I often feel like I'm not doing anything because of how context specific their actions are.

I also notice this in open world PvE, where you can solo various levels of content and can quickly adapt to a situation by swapping traits. Someone mentioned celestial gear as a way to enhance this identity and I agree (but I tend to use a pure offensive setup or mix an offensive setup with some celestial).

[asterix.9614]

Cele ele is the king of roaming.

[Flowki.7194]

Ele shines in any setting when you reach >8/10 skill level, anything less, youre sadly more useful playing something else. However, you can't get to >8 unless you play it.. and there is the problem ^^

 

Obviously keep in mind that being good in pve has very little pass over to pvp, but the reverse is more true.

Edited December 12, 2023 by Flowki.7194

[Kuma.1503]

Pros

PvE 

• Ele brings top tier DPS numbers in the hands of a skilled player. 
• Good access to self-boons compared to other DPS
• Versatile support options. 
• High HPS as a healer (staff)

 

PvP 

• Arguably the best support in the game
• High ranged DPS that ignores reflects with Scepter
• Very high self sustain on some builds. 
• Good self-boon access. 
• Good cleansing
• Very high stab uptime on Tempest and Cata. 
• Counters Ranger who is very popular
• Blocks, evades, and invulns for days. 
• Auras are OP

 

WvW (Roaming)

• Abuses Cele stats extremely hard
• Can be very tanky while dishing out high DPS. 
• Very good self-sustain
• Blocks, evades, and invulns for days. 
• Abuses Anti-toxin relic very hard. 
• Counters rangers who are everywhere
• Auras still OP

 

Cons

 

PvE

• Punished heavily for mistakes
• Has uptime issues on most builds
• Squishiest class in the game when running glass
• Difficult to pick up 
• No boon rip.
• Auras are not useful. 

PvP

• Borederline unplayable without vit/toughness for 99% of players. 
• Good sustained cleanse, but poor burst cleanse. 
• Immobilize + condi bomb is a death sentence
• Chill...
• Countered by necros who are very popular
• Can explode off a single mistake. 
• No boon rip

WvW (Roaming)

• Low mobility. Very poor chase/escape potential compared to other roamers
• Power/burst damage setups are VERY squishy. 
• Cata hard countered by boon corrupt. Relies on stab to cover lack of stunbreak. 
• Countered by Harbinger who are everywhere. 
• Can't stealth or boon rip

 

All game modes: 

• Downstate needs buffs. Return lesser lava font!

 

 

 

 

Edited December 19, 2023 by Kuma.1503

[Khalisto.5780]

Most classes dont really shine, we had a reign of scourge and firebrand for very very long, every other class had their spotlight for a short time

Ppl play ele cuz they enjoy it and everything else feels boring, last time ele was it was when cata was first released and you could stack 8 catas doing 45k+ dmg and you only needed 2 alac to make their rotation work

[AliamRationem.5172]

4 hours ago, Khalisto.5780 said:

Most classes dont really shine, we had a reign of scourge and firebrand for very very long, every other class had their spotlight for a short time

Ppl play ele cuz they enjoy it and everything else feels boring, last time ele was it was when cata was first released and you could stack 8 catas doing 45k+ dmg and you only needed 2 alac to make their rotation work

Snowcrows benchmarks have condi hammer weaver and tempest at #2 and #3 DPS and they're behind condi Mirage, which may not be realistic.  Pcata is #7.  So all 3 ele elites are top tier DPS currently.

It's not without its issues, but it's not exactly in a disadvantaged state.  For example, it can be difficult for weaver to access CC and other cooldowns in tight windows of time.  This is a problem that could be addressed by making unravel an F5.  But that wouldn't do anything to impact the overall power of the spec.

[Zhaid Zhem.6508]

When players start to ask to buff or revert nerf on Downstate, may be the class has an issue.

May be.

[noneHotBuildTest.7251]

Ele struggles to find its glory across different game modes. It seems like they're facing challenges that make it tough for players to fully enjoy the class. The hope is that the developers can address these concerns and give Ele the adjustments it needs to truly shine and be a rewarding choice for players in all aspects of the game. Fingers crossed for some well-deserved buffs!