Is Desert Map still viable

[TheGrimm.5624]

6 hours ago, Justine.6351 said:

lol @ people bashing alpine bl. If anet didn't add the 2 back in then the borderlands would be dead altogether, possibly even wvw as a whole.

I can't speak for others, but ABL was why most of the RvR style players left after a short time (less than 1-2 years compare to 5+ years) since they came from Warhammer and found ABL stale in short order after having so many maps to choose from. Going down to 2 maps, was shocking at best. I guess you missed the outrage when the new director said remove DBL and all the players that had never posted suddenly showed up asking WTW and where did the new map go. This is outside of the questionable poll but more when they pulled the map and then faced feedback asking WTW just happened when players that were just playing were impacted and started posting which is what brought DBL back. So yeah, ABL was highly questioned after year 1. We are now how many years in? We should have had 1 map per year, so by now rotating maps. And I say this as a compliment considering the quality of the PvE maps that we have seen in expansions and in living story. A lot of those also would have made awesome WvW made with added objectives. Nothing wrong with reusing assets here. ABL has more than likely lost us more players than we retain. 3 way maps, as EBG has shown over a decade should be the way for all maps.

[Justine.6351]

1 hour ago, TheGrimm.5624 said:

I can't speak for others, but ABL was why most of the RvR style players left after a short time (less than 1-2 years compare to 5+ years) since they came from Warhammer and found ABL stale in short order after having so many maps to choose from. Going down to 2 maps, was shocking at best. I guess you missed the outrage when the new director said remove DBL and all the players that had never posted suddenly showed up asking WTW and where did the new map go. This is outside of the questionable poll but more when they pulled the map and then faced feedback asking WTW just happened when players that were just playing were impacted and started posting which is what brought DBL back. So yeah, ABL was highly questioned after year 1. We are now how many years in? We should have had 1 map per year, so by now rotating maps. And I say this as a compliment considering the quality of the PvE maps that we have seen in expansions and in living story. A lot of those also would have made awesome WvW made with added objectives. Nothing wrong with reusing assets here. ABL has more than likely lost us more players than we retain. 3 way maps, as EBG has shown over a decade should be the way for all maps.

We lost players over time because of time, not abl...

[TheGrimm.5624]

22 hours ago, Justine.6351 said:

We lost players over time because of time, not abl...

I am glad you did not lose people to ABL as others of us did.

[gofriccurself.9037]

Dear anet,

Delete Alpines.

3 desert maps.

Thanks.

[TheGrimm.5624]

10 hours ago, Itachi.3610 said:

Dear anet,

Delete Alpines.

3 desert maps.

Thanks.

No, I admit not this either. Some people still really enjoy ABL. Change ABL to also be a three way map and remove the wasted spaces. Remove the second ABL and add another three way map in that has varied tactics and mechanics. 

[Deniara Devious.3948]

On 11/28/2023 at 9:18 AM, Thomas.2564 said:

No thx, we dont need more area's that ppl can abuse, and run and hide when they cant win. One SM is MORE then enough. We already have OS for ppl who wanna gvg, dont see the need for neutrals areas in alpine bl's. Plus it would make the q's on alpine bl's even worse. 

But the rest of ur arguments are spot on 👍

By neutrality I mean that the center island could not be claimed by any guild (no guild auras) or have any server related buffs. You could still attack enemy players there as much as you want. This would be perfect for duels & gvg crowd. Also the central location means each side would have roughly same distance from spawn to reach it, in case you died and nobody revived you.

[Deniara Devious.3948]

On 11/28/2023 at 9:18 AM, Thomas.2564 said:

No thx, we dont need more area's that ppl can abuse, and run and hide when they cant win. One SM is MORE then enough. We already have OS for ppl who wanna gvg, dont see the need for neutrals areas in alpine bl's. Plus it would make the q's on alpine bl's even worse. 

But the rest of ur arguments are spot on 👍

By neutrality I mean that the center island could not be claimed by any guild (no guild auras) or have any server related buffs. You could still attack enemy players there as much as you want. This would be perfect for duels & gvg crowd. Also the central location means each side would have roughly same distance from spawn to reach it, in case you died and nobody revived you.

[XenesisII.1540]

On 11/29/2023 at 2:50 AM, TheGrimm.5624 said:

I can't speak for others, but ABL was why most of the RvR style players left after a short time (less than 1-2 years compare to 5+ years) since they came from Warhammer and found ABL stale in short order after having so many maps to choose from. Going down to 2 maps, was shocking at best. I guess you missed the outrage when the new director said remove DBL and all the players that had never posted suddenly showed up asking WTW and where did the new map go.

This is outside of the questionable poll but more when they pulled the map and then faced feedback asking WTW just happened when players that were just playing were impacted and started posting which is what brought DBL back. So yeah, ABL was highly questioned after year 1. We are now how many years in? We should have had 1 map per year, so by now rotating maps. And I say this as a compliment considering the quality of the PvE maps that we have seen in expansions and in living story. A lot of those also would have made awesome WvW made with added objectives. Nothing wrong with reusing assets here.

ABL has more than likely lost us more players than we retain. 3 way maps, as EBG has shown over a decade should be the way for all maps.

I counter with, the first year or two of gw2 wvw was loaded with players that it had 4 map queues for long periods of time, to the point they had to create eotm in 2013 to try and help with the situation. 2013/14/15 is when we started to see a slow bleed of players, and players moving to stack higher up in tiers, not to mention eotm sucked up some players permanently during that time. Was the decline really the fault of one map? eh debatable.

Games lose players over the years, no question, there's only actually a couple mmo's that grew their numbers from initial release. But looking at gw2 we can definitely see there was a loss of wvw players when HoT launched, the 6 month period when there was 3 dbl, with a combination of other factors that turned players off(guildhall grind), and then a resurgence of players when abl was brought back in and relinks which stabilize the population again.

It's been 7 years since links and we haven't had to reduce tiers, using the same double pair linking for the most part, and still managing to get a queue or two, sometimes four, every night in prime time. If it was still 3 dbl I'm not sure the population would have stabilized quickly back then, even though it was suppose to be on a rotation with abl, but then again things could have looked much different, maybe desert would have gotten much more work done on it instead, but the buggy laggy launch of the map really didn't do it any favors. If anything they didnt need to rush it's launch with HoT, and instead could have ran betas for another 6 months to clean up the map, there was already more than enough coming with HoT to keep wvw players busy (guildhall grind).

There are many competitive games that operate on one map alone(BRs, Mobas, FPS), so I would argue large amount of players don't really leave because they got bored of a map, it's the classes, game play, competitiveness, and an extra point for gw2 is it's combat, that hold players in a game, gw2 loses more players to it's skitten balance than it's maps. Personally if I was playing for aesthetics, desert would have been a huge turnoff to me, the biggest turn off of desert was/is/foreverwillbe is it's travel times, time to find any action, and why ebg will continue to be the top map.

They really should just retrofit alpine and desert into ebg designed maps, or add more objectives or lattice game play. Or at least clean up desert, I still get irritated every time I run into a tree stump in there.

[TheGrimm.5624]

7 hours ago, Deniara Devious.3948 said:

By neutrality I mean that the center island could not be claimed by any guild (no guild auras) or have any server related buffs. You could still attack enemy players there as much as you want. This would be perfect for duels & gvg crowd. Also the central location means each side would have roughly same distance from spawn to reach it, in case you died and nobody revived you.

Am not a GvG style player but agree with the intent and the balancing idea of no claims. Considering the concept have you measured the return time to the center ruins in DBL for all three sides?

[TheGrimm.5624]

2 hours ago, XenesisII.1540 said:

I counter with, the first year or two of gw2 wvw was loaded with players that it had 4 map queues for long periods of time, to the point they had to create eotm in 2013 to try and help with the situation. 2013/14/15 is when we started to see a slow bleed of players, and players moving to stack higher up in tiers, not to mention eotm sucked up some players permanently during that time. Was the decline really the fault of one map? eh debatable.

Games lose players over the years, no question, there's only actually a couple mmo's that grew their numbers from initial release. But looking at gw2 we can definitely see there was a loss of wvw players when HoT launched, the 6 month period when there was 3 dbl, with a combination of other factors that turned players off(guildhall grind), and then a resurgence of players when abl was brought back in and relinks which stabilize the population again.

It's been 7 years since links and we haven't had to reduce tiers, using the same double pair linking for the most part, and still managing to get a queue or two, sometimes four, every night in prime time. If it was still 3 dbl I'm not sure the population would have stabilized quickly back then, even though it was suppose to be on a rotation with abl, but then again things could have looked much different, maybe desert would have gotten much more work done on it instead, but the buggy laggy launch of the map really didn't do it any favors. If anything they didnt need to rush it's launch with HoT, and instead could have ran betas for another 6 months to clean up the map, there was already more than enough coming with HoT to keep wvw players busy (guildhall grind).

There are many competitive games that operate on one map alone(BRs, Mobas, FPS), so I would argue large amount of players don't really leave because they got bored of a map, it's the classes, game play, competitiveness, and an extra point for gw2 is it's combat, that hold players in a game, gw2 loses more players to it's skitten balance than it's maps. Personally if I was playing for aesthetics, desert would have been a huge turnoff to me, the biggest turn off of desert was/is/foreverwillbe is it's travel times, time to find any action, and why ebg will continue to be the top map.

They really should just retrofit alpine and desert into ebg designed maps, or add more objectives or lattice game play. Or at least clean up desert, I still get irritated every time I run into a tree stump in there.

I do not disagree with games lose people overtime, that is the trend. I don't disagree with some players don't like changes. I do disagree with we didn't lose players due to stale maps though. I can accept people may have not have known why they lost guildmates and it may have been other reasons. But the ones I know that moved on were stated as lack of changes in maps and same old same old got to be too much. But mileage will vary is valid.

[XenesisII.1540]

3 minutes ago, TheGrimm.5624 said:

But the ones I know that moved on were stated as lack of changes in maps and same old same old got to be too much. But mileage will vary is valid.

I'm sure people left because of alpine, people left because of desert, overall I think people leave cause they're bored of the content in the maps.

All my guild mates left the game because of class changes, or someone they hung with left the game. 🤷‍♂️

[TheGrimm.5624]

10 hours ago, XenesisII.1540 said:

I'm sure people left because of alpine, people left because of desert, overall I think people leave cause they're bored of the content in the maps.

All my guild mates left the game because of class changes, or someone they hung with left the game. 🤷‍♂️

I hear you my friend. Had a causal friend that have emoted with for years ask, "Are we now too old to be gamers?" My reply was lol no. They asked really? I told her this pub wasn't closed yet so we should have another round. Tomorrow is a new day. 🙂 Hope as always your bags were full at reset.

[XenesisII.1540]

11 minutes ago, TheGrimm.5624 said:

Hope as always your bags were full at reset.

Full of lag it was... 🤷‍♂️😏

[TheGrimm.5624]

3 minutes ago, XenesisII.1540 said:

Full of lag it was... 🤷‍♂️😏

I admit, didn't run into any in the EBG three ways. My questions from last week remain so back out to Google I go looking for the issue. I admit I dislike those that can't just have fun. Its a game, but jerks going to be jerks I guess.

[Oahkahmewolf.6210]

I just want a jade tech map

 

[Sviel.7493]

I am not sure what you mean by 'still' viable.  Nothing major has changed in WvW in ages--certainly nothing on the scale that would affect viability of maps.

DBL is better for havoc, for non-zerg-v-zerg defensive stalling, etc.  These differences are baked into the map and will not change. If that's what you're here for, it's still the map for you.

There are still as many exploits as there ever were. Anet does not generally fix those. If that's an issue, WvW as a whole is non-viable.

[Dinas Dragonbane.2978]

On 12/1/2023 at 1:49 PM, XenesisII.1540 said:

 

Games lose players over the years, no question, there's only actually a couple mmo's that grew their numbers from initial release. But looking at gw2 we can definitely see there was a loss of wvw players when HoT launched, the 6 month period when there was 3 dbl, with a combination of other factors that turned players off(guildhall grind), and then a resurgence of players when abl was brought back in and relinks which stabilize the population again.

Don't disclose them adding legendary gear, which probably is one of our main population keepers at this stage(while simultaneously being good and bad for the mode).

The guildhall grind was especially bad, as 95% of the wvw upgrades needed stuff from pve only. And don't forget the centaur banner that needed an item only found in the kurta reward track because there were no level 80 centaurs to kill that dropped stuff because they nixed that when reward tracks were introduced.

[Shinhwa.1604]

Anytime my server gets stuck with the Desert Map boobie prize I just play on EB all week. 

[Thomas.2564]

Desert bl is kitten, and has always been kitten and will always be kitten! Crap freaking map design. Sucks for any kind semi large fights, do to crappy enviroment design. Now this would be fine if the games other mechanics didnt suck so hard aswell. Like stading on a slope, svinging ur melee weapon, but not being able to hit the ur apponent cause his half an inch above u on the slope. Even if hes targeted, ur guy just keeps svinging his sword into the ground, below said target 😮‍💨 

Exploids to the left, exploids to the right, exploids here, exploids there...exploids exploids exploids exploids exploids exploids exploids exploids......!!!!! 10 years almost TEN YEARS! 

Not the mention fighting near garri, and they have 3 shrines... free stab, free protection!! Spwan area above nc? ? ? ? ? ? Fall dmg, fall dmg, fall dmg, fall dmg... glider didnt deploy, dead!

There are so many things wrong with kitten map, ill get finger cramps, if i had to mention them all.

REMOVE!(And when u do, throw EB in the trash at the same time).

[TheGrimm.5624]

21 hours ago, Thomas.2564 said:

Desert bl is kitten, and has always been kitten and will always be kitten! Crap freaking map design. Sucks for any kind semi large fights, do to crappy enviroment design. Now this would be fine if the games other mechanics didnt suck so hard aswell. Like stading on a slope, svinging ur melee weapon, but not being able to hit the ur apponent cause his half an inch above u on the slope. Even if hes targeted, ur guy just keeps svinging his sword into the ground, below said target 😮‍💨 

Exploids to the left, exploids to the right, exploids here, exploids there...exploids exploids exploids exploids exploids exploids exploids exploids......!!!!! 10 years almost TEN YEARS! 

Not the mention fighting near garri, and they have 3 shrines... free stab, free protection!! Spwan area above nc? ? ? ? ? ? Fall dmg, fall dmg, fall dmg, fall dmg... glider didnt deploy, dead!

There are so many things wrong with kitten map, ill get finger cramps, if i had to mention them all.

REMOVE!(And when u do, throw EB in the trash at the same time).

Mind sharing your region? This seems to be a factor.

[Dawdler.8521]

1 hour ago, TheGrimm.5624 said:

Mind sharing your region? This seems to be a factor.

It doesn’t matter, let’s face it DBL just make you want to exploid!

[Thomas.2564]

Why? Dos knowing my region change the fact that u have been able to exploid into EVERY single keep on redbl since launch? U think because they might not do it as much in other regions, that somehow that excuses the fact that this issue hasnt been fixed yet? They havnt even tried. They simple dont care. 

I mean i honestly dont care if they fix it.. the map is still trash. 

[Thomas.2564]

Oh and btw, here's a little fun fact about being red atm. U ever noticed bay on bluebl being contested? But funny enough there is no timer? 🤔 that bug only happens when being red. Of topic, just a fun fact. And a nother thing they dont fix 😅