Expanded Weapon Proficiencies Beta Feedback: Warrior

[HeliosMagi.9867]

I would like if Staff 4 in addition to its current effects could pull downed allies to you. One of the few ways allied targeting would actually make sense.

[draxynnic.3719]

On 12/22/2023 at 7:04 PM, Fueki.4753 said:

Them implementing a second version of Rush puts the "solid design that works" in a less solid and not-quite-working situation though.

Fair, but that's one skill being less than ideally implemented rather than the entire weapon's design being built off a gimmick.

[Fueki.4753]

3 hours ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

Fair, but that's one skill being less than ideally implemented rather than the entire weapon's design being built off a gimmick.

I wouldn't be surprised, if it gets neutered quickly, because people whine about Staff doing too much, while completely disregarding that Warrior has virtually no other means of properly fulfilling a support role.

After all, Warrior rarely gets to have nice stuff. And it's even rarer that Warrior gets to keep it.

Edited December 25, 2023 by Fueki.4753

[Phyb.6704]

On 12/23/2023 at 10:12 AM, HeliosMagi.9867 said:

I would like if Staff 4 in addition to its current effects could pull downed allies to you. One of the few ways allied targeting would actually make sense.

I like this idea and it goes in line with line breaker have a enemy and ally effect. 
I would also like to see barrier on staff 1 and not regen. There is soooo much regen going out and warrior has such high hp that is easily available. Barrier would match the class much more then regen.

[draxynnic.3719]

On 12/25/2023 at 5:13 PM, Fueki.4753 said:

I wouldn't be surprised, if it gets neutered quickly, because people whine about Staff doing too much, while completely disregarding that Warrior has virtually no other means of properly fulfilling a support role.

After all, Warrior rarely gets to have nice stuff. And it's even rarer that Warrior gets to keep it.

Logically, if they were to nerf it, they'd nerf the damage. In the meantime, at least it isn't a ranged weapon that requires the enemy to be standing in a PBAOE for a significant portion of its power budget or something like that.

[Fueki.4753]

2 hours ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

Logically, if they were to nerf it, they'd nerf the damage.

If people are going to complain about the damage of Staff, that would an all-new low for the people biased against Warrior. But at this point, them reaching all-new lows wouldn't surprise me anymore.

However, I think that people will complain about the support and healing of Warrior's staff more. Thus, these are the parts I can see getting nerfed quicker.

 

Edited December 27, 2023 by Fueki.4753

[draxynnic.3719]

21 hours ago, Fueki.4753 said:

If people are going to complain about the damage of Staff, that would an all-new low for the people biased against Warrior. But at this point, them reaching all-new lows wouldn't surprise me anymore.

However, I think that people will complain about the support and healing of Warrior's staff more. Thus, these are the parts I can see getting nerfed quicker.

 

There were people using staff on non-support builds, paired with another more aggressive set, to make self-sustaining bruiser/solo builds, similar to how non-support revs use their staff. So if a nerf was to be warranted (and to be clear, I'm not saying it is), I think it would make more sense to nerf the damage and keep the support so it remains a suitable support weapon, while being a substantial DPS loss for non-support builds and support/bruiser hybrids like healbreaker. Nerfing the healing would have a greater risk of killing it completely.

Of course, there's no guarantee that the sensible thing will have any connection to what actually happens.

[Fueki.4753]

35 minutes ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

I think it would make more sense to nerf the damage and keep the support so it remains a suitable support weapon, while being a substantial DPS loss for non-support builds and support/bruiser hybrids like healbreaker. Nerfing the healing would have a greater risk of killing it completely.

Don't get me wrong, I think that not touching support when going for nerfs would be the reasonable thing to do. But we are talking about a weapon for Warrior here. Doing the reasonable thing for Warrior doesn't happen very often.

Them simply nerfing what people cry about is a far more likely scenario when it comes to Warrior. And when these people see a Warrior dying even just slightly slower, they are going to complain about the sustain.

Edited December 28, 2023 by Fueki.4753

[cryorion.9532]

Nothing to see here, carry on 😶

Edited January 9 by cryorion.9532

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

@cryorion.9532, bro! Delete that comment before you give CMC ideas!

[cryorion.9532]

30 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@cryorion.9532, bro! Delete that comment before you give CMC ideas!

Do you know if you can pull enemies off walls in WvW with staff 4?

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

4 minutes ago, cryorion.9532 said:

Do you know if you can pull enemies off walls in WvW with staff 4?

Too short a pull to do that.

[cryorion.9532]

1 minute ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Too short a pull to do that.

Does it at least pull enemies off lower walls or is the hit area vertically very short?

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

2 hours ago, cryorion.9532 said:

Does it at least pull enemies off lower walls or is the hit area vertically very short?

If that is within 600 range, maybe. I don't remember how it behaves vertically, just that it is a rather short range.

[Crimthan.9308]

On 12/27/2023 at 4:15 AM, Fueki.4753 said:

If people are going to complain about the damage of Staff, that would an all-new low for the people biased against Warrior. But at this point, them reaching all-new lows wouldn't surprise me anymore.

However, I think that people will complain about the support and healing of Warrior's staff more. Thus, these are the parts I can see getting nerfed quicker.

 

Well it happened.  They nerfed the damage of staff ... on a WARRIOR...  Before anyone could even enjoy it on release for doing what a Warrior's primary role is: Roaring in and Killing things.

Rampart splitter got nerfed for damage in WvW and PVP.
Line breaker apparently does NO damage now - WHY?
Snap Pull does minimal to no damage (correct me if I'm wrong).

Basic Burst, Auto Attack, and skill 2 are the only actual damaging skills now (and they are moderate at that).

Welcome to Banner Slave 2.0.  THIS IS DISGUSTING.  After 12 years of waiting for a polearm class weapon for Warrior, after dealing with a torch, dagger, and offhand pistol for expansions.... they neuter it when we do get it.

We need an actual RL Warrior/Veteran in this design team for Warrior.  Enough is enough.

[Fueki.4753]

35 minutes ago, Crimthan.9308 said:

After 12 years of waiting for a polearm class weapon for Warrior, after dealing with a torch, dagger, and offhand pistol for expansions.... they neuter it when we do get it.

I never expected to get an actual polearm to begin with.

After seeing massive reuse of animations for the EoD specializations, it was obvious that we'd just get animations from the already-existing pool of hammer, Revenant staff and Thief staff animations. Line Breaker being a Greatsword animation was the only surprise.

Edited February 28 by Fueki.4753

[Crimthan.9308]

45 minutes ago, Fueki.4753 said:

I never expected to get an actual polearm to begin with.

After seeing massive reuse of animations for the EoD specializations, it was obvious that we'd just get animations from the already-existing pool of hammer, Revenant staff and Thief staff animations. Line Breaker being a Greatsword animation was the only surprise.

I get it about the animations, though frankly they made it work. I would like to see more "follow through" with the animations.
The issue is the function/utility being properly addressed (there must be some solid offensive output, even if it has a support "ring" to it).
Appointing a 0.5 coefficient to Rampart splitter is totally atrocious.  It's like they want warrior to suck on purpose and are forcing warrior into a weakened state.

I've been looking forward to this, and I did expect a polearm - yet it appears this could be another disappointment for the warrior. 
I was so excited during beta about this.
Side Bar:
I expect polearms in any game with a warrior - it is the premium warrior weapon. 
Some games like Conqueror's Blade, have 4, yes FOUR Polearms:  Spear, Pike, Poleaxe/Halberd, Glaive/Naginata.  ALL with very different animations from stabbing to slicing to to spinning to overhead assault, to ranged attack, etc.
Any game designer that tells us that all spear does is stab or all staff does is swing - is entirely uninformed and ignorant.
In Katori (authentic samurai martial arts), it goes katana --> staff --> naginata/glaive --> spear.  It's not an accident that the three weapons after the katana to promote to, are all polearms.

[Fueki.4753]

1 hour ago, Crimthan.9308 said:

It's like they want warrior to suck on purpose and are forcing warrior into a weakened state.

This sentiment is nothing new. It's felt this way since at least the release of HoT.

1 hour ago, Crimthan.9308 said:

Some games like Conqueror's Blade, have 4, yes FOUR Polearms:  Spear, Pike, Poleaxe/Halberd, Glaive/Naginata.  ALL with very different animations from stabbing to slicing to to spinning to overhead assault, to ranged attack, etc.
Any game designer that tells us that all spear does is stab or all staff does is swing - is entirely uninformed and ignorant.

I assume it's less about being uninformed or ignorant and more about not wanting to spend the resources in creating new animations. Reusing already existing animations is cheaper than creating new ones.

[Crimthan.9308]

1 hour ago, Fueki.4753 said:

This sentiment is nothing new. It's felt this way since at least the release of HoT.

I assume it's less about being uninformed or ignorant and more about not wanting to spend the resources in creating new animations. Reusing already existing animations is cheaper than creating new ones.

I've literally been saying the same thing since the release of HoT.  It's like the warrior designers who actually cared about warrior left, and we have been stuck with someone who hates warriors.  

Ranger is over there with dual maces, healing and kicking butt offensively, and here is warrior with a polearm that at first was a great match, but now is very subpar by way of comparison to what the ranger got (no, do NOT nerf the ranger).

It is so obvious they want warrior to suck it's not even funny.  Warrior doesn't even get a lot of the cool gimmicks and utility of ranger (let alone guardian, revenant, etc) and ALSO doesn't even do it's offensive purpose that well.  This makes NO sense, and I'm sick of it.
 

[Fueki.4753]

1 hour ago, Crimthan.9308 said:

I've literally been saying the same thing since the release of HoT.

You and me are not the only ones. THere are quite a few posts about that topic on the forums. There also were many more on the old forums.

But over the years, people moved on from hoping for better times and just try to squeeze the most they can out of Warrior, gave up on Warrior or left the game entirely.

I wouldn't be surprised, if the squeezing group is the smallest of those three groups.

Edited February 28 by Fueki.4753

[Crimthan.9308]

14 minutes ago, Fueki.4753 said:

You and me are not the only ones. THere are quite a few posts about that topic on the forums. There also were many more on the old forums.

But over the years, people moved on from hoping for better times and just try to squeeze the most they can out of Warrior, gave up on Warrior or left the game entirely.

I wouldn't be surprised, if the squeezing group is the smallest of those three groups.

I'm one of those who left the game entirely, including my brother, nephews, and friends. My nephews and I came back when I saw the promise the staff would bring the Warrior, in damage, utility, and survivability/support.

Looks like damage may be entirely out of the equation, which is a major premise for the Warrior. If this doesn't pan out, and the Warrior is left in the dust again: I will most likely be gone again, along with those who arrived originally with me 12 years ago... I'm definitely not alone.

[Myror.7521]

@Crimthan.9308i gonna mention here that staff 3 was never meant to deal dmg. Seems like it was a bug in the Beta (since it also says in the wiki description that its dmg was 0.0). Also im gonna think that they nerfed the Berserker Staff Burst cause of maybe they found big dmg + immob + big heal + Regen too strong and nerved it cause of this.

Edited February 28 by Myror.7521

[Crimthan.9308]

49 minutes ago, Myror.7521 said:

@Crimthan.9308i gonna mention here that staff 3 was never meant to deal dmg. Seems like it was a bug in the Beta (since it also says in the wiki description that its dmg was 0.0). Also im gonna think that they nerfed the Berserker Staff Burst cause of maybe they found big dmg + immob + big heal + Regen too strong and nerved it cause of this.

So they minimize the damage from Rampart Splitter, of all the things they could have - the #1 thing that needs to be left alone. They couldn't minimize anything else?  Really?

This bolsters the disdain of many who find themselves forced to take the Discipline line or be subpar in competitive content. We will constantly need to swap weapons just to deal anything close to resembling reasonable damage.

Might as well not equip staff at all and carry banners (here we go again) or go shouts (yes again) with us so we can use weapons that actually dish out damage.

Pit that up against most the other classes. I guarantee there are those who already come close or pull ahead with most if not all those tenets; and have been given great consideration with each Expansion while Warrior is left further and further behind.  Torch? Dagger? Offhand Pistol that turns into a gun-sword? A nerf staff?

Staff/Polearm is obviously just a pacifier and not taken any more seriously than Warrior is. This is self-evident by the current outcome we are staring in the face.

And why?  Because we just put up and deal with it. Because we give excuses for why they do it. Because we have no spine and compromise.

No. I'm not buying any of it.

Edited February 28 by Crimthan.9308

[Myror.7521]

@Crimthan.9308 well i totaly get your point. The nerf was not needed at all. Lets be Happy that they only nerfed Berserkers burst and left the core one as it is. ^^

[TyrantPuppy.1893]

Pleas ANet. Instead of trying to "FIX" / Force Alacrity on Support Bladesworn (who's current biggest problem is that it has to use Gunsaber as one of its weapons instead of Warhorn or Staff) Give us [Daring Dragon] back like People Want. You can nerf it into the ground or make the "flow cost" 30+ for all I care. And put the frogging Alacrity on Spellbreaker for PvE where it makes sense. Have it apply on trigger of Boon Rip' effect or against defiant foes magebane teather pulse or something and just make it a dif boon than alacrity for Competitive WvW / PvP since you seem to be moving away from that.

It solves literally every implementation problem with Warrior rn, at least for PvE. And makes EVERYONE happy. 😄 Less work for you. More fun / playstyle diversity for us.