ANet please, PLEASE Revert the [Daring Dragon] Change and put Alacrity on [Immortal Dragon], or just Spellbreaker instead.

[PseudoOAlias.4279]

Old [Daring Dragon] was supposed to be the PvP trait. It was fun, unique, and while people thought it was underpowered, it was actually pretty good and scaled well if you built for it.

This alacrity change was clearly a half-baked idea to begin with. The [Daring Dragon] gives 10 seconds of alacrity without any boon duration in PvE and the tooltip isn't even done.

New [Daring Dragon] provides 3s of alacrity in PvP and WvW to an attack that barely does any damage there to begin with and has the most ridiculous "use requirements" of Building 100 flow and then channeling without being interrupted to use. If you want Bladesworn to do alacrity for PvE fine. Everything's nuts now so why not. But why not just put this in the slot that [Immortal Dragon] is using and bring back the FUN version of [Daring Dragon]? The idea of a Grandmaster shifting a slash from: "Something that supports your allies" to "One big hit that generates might & is ublockable" to "One that does a bunch of little hits but gets progressively stronger as it applies vulnerability if you spec into the flow to maintain it." You could even revert the change and make new-new DD give alacrity per charge loaded. That way you could still give out alacrity by doing a bunch of little slashes. Best of both worlds.

As is in WvW the only use for existing [Daring Dragon] is roaming with 100% boon duration. And even this just generates a build that is even more spamm-y than before. Partially because [Shield Master] is still bugged and lets you permanently reflect projectiles as long as you upkeep aegis and partially because regular Dragon Slashes STILL DO NO DAMAGE. Meanwhile Deadeyes are running around with new [Steal Time] that can be double-cast over their shoulder at 1500 range and hits for 7K+ without any might, vs a fully charged [Dragon Slash] doesn't even do 6K and misses half the time because of terrain jank.

The old options were already in the game, and I will eat an actual shoe if you provide me metrics that more players were using [Immortal Dragon] than old [Daring Dragon]. Ya'll are always going on about "We don't want to delete cool builds unless they're dramatically over-performing." Old DD wasn't. It was just fun. Please, please, please don't make us play this way.

 

Proof that it was fun, and good but not OP:

 

Proof that it's viable but not the best:

 

[Loboling.5293]

I must admit, I never rolled that trait and it does look fun. Warrior in general is lots of fun, shame they removed this though. I agree with your change request. I hope they bring back the original daring dragon for the enjoyers.

[Myror.7521]

Yeap letz be honest alacrity to Lush forest would have made more sence since this is a traitline that allready reduce the CD of skills. Just rework it so you share boons every time you spend ammuninion.

But also If u use this instead of the 10% dmg modifire of fierce and fire. So you would only just need to maybe buff fierce and fire nerf the dmg of Dragon burst skills and yep you would have a balanced way to use alacrity instead of just more dps ^^

Edited July 1, 2023 by Myror.7521

[PseudoOAlias.4279]

To the above ^ it also wouldn't have relied on the problems that Warrior/Bladesworn has always had of:

a) actually being in combat

b) building 100 flow and then

c) channeling + casting the slash.

I can't tell you how many times Bladesworns or Warriors in my HTCM group or similarly bugged instances drop combat for no reason and have to build adrenaline/flow up to get their DPS going again. Now imagine that at a pivotal point in the raid & affecting your entire group because you're now the source of Alacrity.

Altho, if [Lush Forest] is going to do it, the trait should proc off any charge use imo. That way it could avoid the playstyle of "staying at the last charge" that the Devs mentioned they want to avoid with Bladesworn play. (Altho imo, you kind of end up doing that anyway.)

[GigityCat.7529]

I genuinely hope ANet stops being afraid to admit when they're wrong and revert changes like this that don't make any sense, anyone happy, and that no one asked for. I only started playing with EoD and had just convinced a couple of my friends to come try the game BECAUSE of Bladesworn and this playstyle.

We don't raid or anything, but it was pretty fun being Gun Samurai in open world & the WvW mode.

I literally can't convince them to log on now since the patch, and will likely refund my pre-purchase of SoTO because of this.

The new spammy' Bladesworn is even more spammy' and aweful. Except now it's not fun & there's a MILLION different, better ways they could have done Warrior alacrity.

[UpsHigh.5724]

22 of Warrior's traits are currently dog do-do.

ANet there was no need for this. You could have put it literally anywhere else or just added alacrity to existing [Daring Dragon] and people wouldn't have cared. Hell, maybe some of them would have realized what an actually cool trait it was AND that would have BALANCED [Daring Dragon] PvE Bladesworn's damage anyway, since it was around 30K if you did a good rotation as it was.

10s of blanket alacrity and RUINING ANOTHER PIECE OF WARRIOR'S ALREADY ANEMIC PVP KIT IS PATHETIC and along with ANOHTER MELEE WEAPON ANNOUNCED you have to be deliberately trying to kitten off the ~3 Warriors who still play this game right!? There is no other honest reason I can think of for this.

[oscuro.9720]

Not spell. Spell should have disenchantment expanded and it’s strips buffed so it s a real boon counter. I don’t want my anti-boon class to start spitting alacrity. That’s disgusting. 

[GeneralWut.7426]

I agree on reverting Daring Dragon and moving the alacrity to Immortal Dragon or even changing Lush Forest to apply alacrity on first ammo count used. The old Daring Dragon, as niche as it was, felt incredibly fun to use, while now it feels clunky, and I'm finding that I'm effortlessly staying at almost full flow.

If they insist on keeping alacrity on Daring Dragon, I wouldn't mind if they dropped the damage down a little bit as long as DD automatically puts you back into dragon trigger.

[SkyRight.2370]

There's 0 reason it can't be both:

If they instead just kept [Daring Dragon] at 5 bullets, and made it dump out 1s of alacrity per bullet loaded. You would have to invest slightly into boon duration (similar to other alac dps classes rn) accounting for [Dragonspike Mine] Reload & also wouldn't get the insane benefit of 10 full charges this would solve:

1) Alac Bladsworn doing 42K+ rn with 0 boon duration effort.

2) It would play differently than regular Bladesworn and require slightly different gear.

3) It preserves the old playstyle and maybe gives the slight bump to the awesome old [Daring Dragon] trait that it needed for people to realize how FUN  the old [Daring Dragon] actually was in PvP & WvW.

>> LITERALLY EVERYONE WINS <<

Or. They could have just put alac on [Immortal Dragon] and made it heal your allies a bit too so Bls could be a real support like everyone actually wanted. The funny part now is, with the double bullet scaling the way it is, "the alac trait" of [Daring Dragon] is just the dps trait too because it essentially just lets you load your bullets faster. And since none of the other traits give you bonus damage:

(Same Damage) / (Less Time) = More DPS. 

 

I am so, So, SO tired of ANet taking the actually usable/fun/both parts of Warrior's kit and dumping them for no reason because there are OTHER OPTIONS. I might make my own thread for visibility on this too b/c frankly old [DD] was fun & literally the only build that I was enjoying and there's 0 reason for it to be deleted like this.

Edited June 29, 2023 by SkyRight.2370

[TiedHam.4923]

Agree 1,000% with this ^. Warrior still needs some love BAD. Most of the weapons and specialization utilities (outside Berserker now) are awful, same with the core traits. There's no reason for them to take a trait that people clearly were using but the idiot community didn't understand so they meme'd on it and replace it with a half-baked support boon when the alac could have been put anywhere else like you said unless it's a temporary fix.

Edited June 29, 2023 by TiedHam.4923

[TyrantPuppy.1893]

Bumping this thread because I also super agree with pretty much everything that's been said here.

I get the feeling that old [DD] was changed because people didn't understand it & went "lower number in PvE Lol" but the people who were using it & loving LIKE ME FOR EXAMPLE didn't say anything, cause you know, vocal minority. So now that it's in a place that makes 0 sense the people who WERE using it are like wtf.

Daring Dragon was super fun, played well, and added a lot that the Spec needed as an option if nothing else. Bring it back & move the alac if you need to.

[FirePowerr.1820]

I am SO tired of having pieced of my Warrior Specialization's PvP kit cannibalized so that it can "work" in quite an unintended way in PvE.

Did you learn nothing from Berserker 4 years ago!?!? Almost all of those "duration" changes were hated and universally split or reverted since. ANet PLEASE give me back my cool high-fantasy multistrike Bladesworn and while your at it please restore the distance & 1/4s of an evade frame you took from [Dragonspike Mine] so that you could refresh your slash in PvE by rolling off the edge of a raid encounter.

 

& While you're at it please give me a reason to actually push Gunsaber 2. Thanks.

[izzoartistry.9814]

Bump

[GoldSilva.8950]

Removing/Changing [Daring Dragon] smacks very of "Play it our way or else ANet."

I much preferred the multihit playstyle that the old one afforded. Alacrity should be somewhere else imo.

Kinda same with Druid, or it should at least be base longer. These changes both kinda say to me "F-IT We gotta get this sh*t out and put it somewhere. THERE THAT TRAIT People 'don't understand it' & No One's using that one right!?" Except now:

+ Bladesworn literally takes this now as a DPS option because it does the same damage per slash, just in less time in PvE.

+ Druid relies on their healing mode (Avatar) to dump out alacrity.

 

Like, imagine for a sec that they removed the Stability-On-Aura Grandmaster PvP trait on Cata to have it give quickness on aura application, but like only an acceptable amount in PvE or Tempest could only give alacrity by overloading water attunement. PvP and PvE players would riot. Since it's only the people who were actually enjoying existing [Daring Dragon] and now they're rightfully now like "What-The-Kitten!?" you're seeing those people actually upset, as opposed to the people who dox'd and meme'd on the trait beforehand because they were comparing it to traits like [Unyielding Dragon] that is intended for the single big-hit. When the whole original point of [Original Daring Dragon] as should be with Grandmater Traits as stated by ANet was to give people an alternative playstyle. Maybe instead of trying to make your slash just unblindable. People would rather strip the blind with a preliminary slash and then follow it up with the actual charged bigger hit. Or stack some vuln if they could manage to hit with a couple slashes with [Sundering Burst] while somehow managing not to get cc'd. This was legitimately one of the coolest trait combo interactions that I've seen in this game in 10+ years. & It's not like there was a difference between 5 & 10 bullets damage-wise in PvP anyway.

And there's 0 reason for this sacrifice.

If ANet had instead put aoe alacrity on both entering & exiting Astral Form on Druid you could at least save some Astral so you wouldn't have to completely dump it all and have nothing when you needed to heal. Or for Warrior in place of [Immortal Dragon] as-it-is-now, or better yet, with less boon duration so you had to build some if you wanted it would have given people a clear choice between:

Top: The PvE trait that gives either: More DPS (Because SameDamage @ AFasterChargeRate = More DPS) OR Alac per bullet (viable for group alacrity if they built some boon duration, and supplemental if they didn't.) + Good for open-world people learning the class too.

Middle: The BIG HIT PvP or PvE Break Bar Trait Option.

Bottom: Previous [Daring Dragon]: Giving Mobility, allowing slice refresh, and affording the class a different very fun playstyle that legitimately had some of the coolest trait interactions.

 

Or Yeah. They could have just put it on [Lush Forest] and made it alac for any ammo use. Since asking players of any game mode to not use past their first ammo charge is kinda a bad band-aid & needed an update imo. PLEASE CHANGE THIS BACK!

[Underyill.6495]

#metoo :)

Temporary fix or no, Please put old DD back! It was crazy fun. :(

[CornFarm.9260]

Another square-peg/round hole change that no one not working at ANet asked for. ANet, if you're going to brute-force overblown bandaid PvE boons, can you at least do it in a way that doesn't completely kill entire builds and playstyles that have been in the game for over a year?? Some of us have actually been playing Guild Wars 2, building muscle memory for it, and even actually enjoying it.

When you do kitten like this without thinking twice or ever reverting/following it up in a way that demonstrates that you actually took a second look at it and understand now why changes like this reflect 0 understanding of the diverse player base and playstyles that you always preach that you supposedly want to cater to. It makes a lot of us "diverse" disposable wallets that have been playing your game, that you are blatantly shitting on not actually want to play your game, or for that matter buy your new expansion.

[CrashCrusFGH.8904]

[Lush Forest] is an infinitely better place for this support' boon. One that doesn't sacrifice an entire playstyle that people have had for a year. Bump.

[UNOwen.7132]

Daring Dragon was super fun, I absolutely hate what they did to it. And I concurr, Lush Forest is absolutely the place to put it, its a trait that currently serves no purpose whatsoever and sees no play at all, and thematically is the most appropriate for it.

[TyrantPuppy.1893]

Can literally anyone explain to me why the trait that does actually nothing because the protection it gives is redundant rn [Immortal Dragon] that allowed the full 10 charges & thus full PvE damage (which they cited as their main concern) to begin with, doesn't just give aoe alacrity per pulse instead of protection instead??

Why is ANet paying someone, in what I'm assuming is real money, to rework a trait that was like the dopest kitten ever, people were clearly using, when there's an infinitely more uesless trait THAT THE CODING'S EVEN ALREADY DONE FOR right there!?!? Like, am I on drugs here??

 

or yeah... put it on LF. Seems a better place anyway.

[WaterMud.8106]

This ^ Bump.

Alacrity does not belong on a DPS trait. (Which it is now b/c: same damage/less time.) Nor is it necessary to destroy an entire playstyle to add it. Both [ID] and [LF] are better places. The only reason to keep it on DD doing more DPS than any other Grandmaster now is because you don't want the old play style to exist. People clearly thought it was fun. Please don't do this when the alternative(s) are both so much easier to implement & objectively better.

[FShoppe.6572]

8 hours ago, WaterMud.8106 said:

This ^ Bump.

Alacrity does not belong on a DPS trait. (Which it is now b/c: same damage/less time.) Nor is it necessary to destroy an entire playstyle to add it. Both [ID] and [LF] are better places. The only reason to keep it on DD doing more DPS than any other Grandmaster now is because you don't want the old play style to exist. People clearly thought it was fun. Please don't do this when the alternative(s) are both so much easier to implement & objectively better.

To this ^ I think they fixed it. But I also agree there are 100% better places for support alacrity. (Imo. ID should pulse prot and Regen but have 7 bullets.

I was also getting ludicrous 41k+ numbers on it as soon as the patch dropped. I assume each of the 'bullets' had double scaling. But they realized, as you said, that this was not actually necessary and just kept the fast charging part.

ANet I took like doing 10s of alacrity with 0 effort. But there are better ways to do this long-term, as numerous people have said. Ways that don't sacrifice fun WvW builds for no reason at that.

[pninak.1069]

liked the old daring dragon more yet found it hard to combo with traits. dmg wasn't good. the new one gives too much alacrity and initially I hoped for a combo of the two. like you charge up the max then do multiple slashes that provide a tiny amount of alac to overstack so you can use other skills for adrenline and healing of the party when outside of dt. the reduced cd of the skills with last patch and lush forest also speed up with alac so you can use them more efficiently. the amount of different skills you can use now is a bit bigger yet the trait itself is too simplistic and lacks character. but as it is right now it would simply be another trait that works while in a different skill bar(ca and ss). now since ppl want heal warrior I wonder why they didn't just stick to the old version and added a heal on dragonslash instead.

[DownDrisis.4826]

40 minutes ago, pninak.1069 said:

liked the old daring dragon more yet found it hard to combo with traits. dmg wasn't good. the new one gives too much alacrity and initially I hoped for a combo of the two. like you charge up the max then do multiple slashes that provide a tiny amount of alac to overstack so you can use other skills for adrenline and healing of the party when outside of dt. the reduced cd of the skills with last patch and lush forest also speed up with alac so you can use them more efficiently. the amount of different skills you can use now is a bit bigger yet the trait itself is too simplistic and lacks character. but as it is right now it would simply be another trait that works while in a different skill bar(ca and ss). now since ppl want heal warrior I wonder why they didn't just stick to the old version and added a heal on dragonslash instead.

It's funny cause so was I. It's weird too because post patch I heard reports of it doing insane > regular benchmarks due to probably? Increased bullet damage scaling? But they seem to have culled that down if it existed at all & now just charges faster at 5 cap. So net + ~2k DPS max.

Id HARD prefer they bring back the old DD as you said & maybe ancillary alacrity on it (like maybe 1/4s per bullet loaded) might give it a reason to exist in WvW & PvP. They could even limit the # of "refreshes" as a compromise if they had to. Altho I think limited insta-cast buttons / ways to generate flow does that anyway. Not a PvP player but I'm pretty sure it was pretty strong, people just meme on what's not on SC or metabattle. That I do know. And this video makes it look awesome. 😄

[SevenFives.2734]

2 hours ago, DownDrisis.4826 said:

ld DD as you said & maybe ancillary alacrity on it (like maybe 1/4s per bullet loaded) might give it a reason to exist in WvW & PvP. They could even limit the # of "refreshes" 

I love this for PvX. Seconded!

Or, old DD w/ AOE Alac+Protein pulse on ID with reduced damage per bullet for variety? ^^ I dig the idea of being able to "Build my own Gunsaber" similar to how Holos can "Build their own lightsaber forge." ^^

[FellFalls.3750]

Connected my forum account just to + this thread. I logged in to find my Cloud Cosplay very un-Cloud like today. 😑 Really hoping you undo this change ANet bros, cause old [Daring Dragon] was dope AF.