Easiest WvW solo roamer class build for an elderly mouse-clicker

[Malak.7108]

Sorry but forgot to add some details:-

As Kuya.6495 suggested its using Celestial gear - both armor and weapons:

- exotic armor.

- runes are Superior Rune of the Pack.

 - Great Sword is Crystal Guardian.

- Short  bow is Celestial Pearl Needler of the Hydromancer.

- the rest follows the MetaBattle build except using poor trinkets etc.

 

[Junkpile.7439]

They probably were newbies if they tried to fight against vindicator 😆

[dead.7638]

Sarcasm is clearly wasted here.

[Malak.7108]

2 hours ago, Junkpile.7439 said:

They probably were newbies if they tried to fight against vindicator 😆

Seriously, I've usually no idea who I'm fighting unless they go into a Death Shroud - which explains why until today I haven't won a fight in many month - my ignorance is not bliss though :( -  :) :)

[Riba.3271]

I would suggest to learn to not mouseclick and use hotkeys.  Even for younger people it gets several weeks to get used to. It isn't that elderly are unable to learn, they're just unwilling. Most of the time age is just an excuse.

[Kuya.6495]

5 hours ago, Malak.7108 said:

Wow this Vindicator is amazing - its the one from MetaBattle - GS/Shortbow roamer.

I've only been using it less that 30 minutes and already taken three  T0 camps very easily and beaten a player - but guess they were a newbie.

The build is still a mystery and little idea how Shortbow and Great Sword work but they brought some success by spam mouse clicking a few things.

Now need to figure this build out, get better equipment and watch YT videos to see how its done properly otherwise I'll still get wrecked most times.

Thank you to everyone who had posted - I have read every post and thought about then all - still taking the info in.

Its taken some time - as I had to get the Secrets of Obscure expansion because the Short bow doesn't work by default on Vindicator - that has been fun to.

Anyhow, at least some hope for elderly mouse clickers like me who want to roam a bit - thank you all 🙂

 

P.S - somehow I messed up and double posted and earlier post - sorry.

Nice! My suggestion is go a bit tankier than the Metabattle build until you are comfortable.

Try the following: 

1. Use retribution over invocation. Take the traits close quarters, resolute evasion and vicious reprisal. These changes will: make you have perma resolution which lowers condi damage by 33%, lowers strike damage you take by 10%, increases your damage by 10%, and gives you might when you strike an enemy. With unyielding devotion, you take 25% less strike damage from melee and 35% less damage from ranged attacks. If you have protection that's 58% and 68% less damage respectively.  Retribution also increases your endurance recovery by 10% (more dodging, your lifeblood).

2. In the vindicator trait line, take: amnesty of shing jea and vassals of the empire. The idea is for you to get more boon duration and stack might, regen and protection for both more defensive and offensive power simultaneously. This also synergizes with the salvation traitline with the trait resilient spirit which gives you barrier per boon.

3. Take celestial stats if you haven't already. 

4. Take staff over greatsword. Staff will afford you even more defensive options if you are feeling pressured. Your main damage comes from shortbow anyway. Once you are comfortable with how to use vindicator you can consider using greatsword. But staff will also allow you to survive outnumbered fights easily. You can also use staff to "stall" fights and calmly observe your enemies moves to figure out how they fight. You can camp staff and pretty much cycle between dodge>staff3>dodge>staff5 and never really worry about your safety in a 1v1.

5. You need to be dodging constantly. Your boons, barrier, healing, and damage mitigation activate from your dodges so make sure to dodge regularly to trigger your traits even if you don't see a dangerous attack coming. If you want, save a 1 dodge for emergencies but never save a full endurance bar. If you have full endurance, you're using the build wrong.

6. Use ventari over Shiro. Ventari will give you access to a bubble to pretty much negate anything a ranged enemy can do to you. Ventari bubble is especially effective against harbingers. Ventari elite has a massive amount of stab. When empowered ventari elite gives you resistance (immobilize is your greatest enemy). Empowered utility skill 4 also gives you endurance for more dodging. Utility skill 3 is more condi cleanse. 

7. Use cleansing sigils and energy sigils on both weapon sets. Swapping legends triggers these sigils given you back your endurance bar and removing 3 conditions from you. You should always be swapping legends to refresh your energy and endurance. You don't have to swap weapons unless you need staff/gs for specific reasons. Stick to shortbow for the most part.

8. Use bowl of orrian and truffle meat stew (it's an option in the Metabattle page). It gives you more endurance regen and gives you might when you dodge.

9. Swap between kurzick and luxor legends often. It allows you to stack more might/regen if you took the traits I suggested. You want to swap between both before using up your energy and before swapping to vetari. Use archemorous to stack might, fury and quickness, Saint Viktor is where your condi cleanse (also gives you endurance when you cleanse), protection and resistance is at. Archemorous will allow you to stack 25 might if you use dodging+nomad's advance+selfish spirit+alliance swap after out of energy+attacking while having resolution (if you are always dodging, you always have resolution thanks to the retribution traitline).

Btw if you fully level guard killer with your wvw ability points, you gain back endurance when you kill a guard. That means you can use guards in supply camps to spam dodges and max the duration on your boons before a fight with a player. You will have perma might, protection, vigor, resolution. Spamming reaver's rage on a group of npcs will also provide you with max duration quickness and fury. So you are ironically, more powerful when you fight a player and a group of npcs at the same time.

Feel free to ask questions 

Edited December 14, 2023 by Kuya.6495

[Thomas.2564]

22 hours ago, TheGrimm.5624 said:

Chaba is being polite and suggesting to actually address the OP comments versus what posters were doing in some cases. Are you reading this as more than that? 

I was just stating that just because I mentioned cele as a viable option, doesnt make it meme advice. Since if ur looking for a roaming build, that works, and u dont wanna struggle against other cele players, u gotta play cele. Granted, that the way I phrased it, seemed to meme'ish. But that still doesnt change the fact that cele is baiscally, almost, the only thing that is roamable these days. Since it requires very little to master, compared to other bullds, that actually requires knowing when to dodge. Cele bullds dont punish the player for making mistakes, unlike other, more squishy builds. I wasnt trying to be patronizing or anything. But the fact is, cele is easier to play, then dps builds, meme, or no meme. 

[Thomas.2564]

All that said, if u dont wanna play cele, and u actually wanna learn how to fight for real. I suggest giving war a shot. Bersker trait has had a lot of nice changes, over the last of couple of months, focused on sustain. So u can play full zerk or marauder, or mix gear, for dmg. Then run def, disc and bersker traits, for sustain. War has a ton of hp, endure pain etc.. So its not super punishing, if u make a mistake now and then. 

All the warrior specilizations are fairly good atm. How ever bersker seems to work the best atm, imo. Spellbreaker is kinda meh, specially against cele, do to lack if dmg and even sustain. Havnt played bladesworn, since it only seems to run on cele fuel. Core war is still my fav, but again, u will struggle against cele players. 

[Malak.7108]

13 hours ago, Kuya.6495 said:

Nice! My suggestion is go a bit tankier than the Metabattle build until you are comfortable.

Try the following: 

1. Use retribution over invocation. Take the traits close quarters, resolute evasion and vicious reprisal. These changes will: make you have perma resolution which lowers condi damage by 33%, lowers strike damage you take by 10%, increases your damage by 10%, and gives you might when you strike an enemy. With unyielding devotion, you take 25% less strike damage from melee and 35% less damage from ranged attacks. If you have protection that's 58% and 68% less damage respectively.  Retribution also increases your endurance recovery by 10% (more dodging, your lifeblood).

2. In the vindicator trait line, take: amnesty of shing jea and vassals of the empire. The idea is for you to get more boon duration and stack might, regen and protection for both more defensive and offensive power simultaneously. This also synergizes with the salvation traitline with the trait resilient spirit which gives you barrier per boon.

3. Take celestial stats if you haven't already. 

4. Take staff over greatsword. Staff will afford you even more defensive options if you are feeling pressured. Your main damage comes from shortbow anyway. Once you are comfortable with how to use vindicator you can consider using greatsword. But staff will also allow you to survive outnumbered fights easily. You can also use staff to "stall" fights and calmly observe your enemies moves to figure out how they fight. You can camp staff and pretty much cycle between dodge>staff3>dodge>staff5 and never really worry about your safety in a 1v1.

5. You need to be dodging constantly. Your boons, barrier, healing, and damage mitigation activate from your dodges so make sure to dodge regularly to trigger your traits even if you don't see a dangerous attack coming. If you want, save a 1 dodge for emergencies but never save a full endurance bar. If you have full endurance, you're using the build wrong.

6. Use ventari over Shiro. Ventari will give you access to a bubble to pretty much negate anything a ranged enemy can do to you. Ventari bubble is especially effective against harbingers. Ventari elite has a massive amount of stab. When empowered ventari elite gives you resistance (immobilize is your greatest enemy). Empowered utility skill 4 also gives you endurance for more dodging. Utility skill 3 is more condi cleanse. 

7. Use cleansing sigils and energy sigils on both weapon sets. Swapping legends triggers these sigils given you back your endurance bar and removing 3 conditions from you. You should always be swapping legends to refresh your energy and endurance. You don't have to swap weapons unless you need staff/gs for specific reasons. Stick to shortbow for the most part.

8. Use bowl of orrian and truffle meat stew (it's an option in the Metabattle page). It gives you more endurance regen and gives you might when you dodge.

9. Swap between kurzick and luxor legends often. It allows you to stack more might/regen if you took the traits I suggested. You want to swap between both before using up your energy and before swapping to vetari. Use archemorous to stack might, fury and quickness, Saint Viktor is where your condi cleanse (also gives you endurance when you cleanse), protection and resistance is at. Archemorous will allow you to stack 25 might if you use dodging+nomad's advance+selfish spirit+alliance swap after out of energy+attacking while having resolution (if you are always dodging, you always have resolution thanks to the retribution traitline).

Btw if you fully level guard killer with your wvw ability points, you gain back endurance when you kill a guard. That means you can use guards in supply camps to spam dodges and max the duration on your boons before a fight with a player. You will have perma might, protection, vigor, resolution. Spamming reaver's rage on a group of npcs will also provide you with max duration quickness and fury. So you are ironically, more powerful when you fight a player and a group of npcs at the same time.

Feel free to ask questions 

Thank you so much for all the details here - I've been going through them step by step and they are very well explained - a lot of fun figuring this out.

I've going with Salvation, Retribution as they look best for me, and used your suggestions.

My problem, my being so dim, the Vindicator seems so unlike any other class I've seen before and understanding the stances etc is confusing Demon/Drawf . I even submitted a bug report as cannot get the  Healing and Utility skills to appear. Anyhow, I'll solve this over coming weekend then do some roaming.

Its just amazing that with my broken setup that I could actually fight better than ever before. Skillful hot key user Vindicators must be awesome :)  Perhaps a nerf is coming 😞

 

[TheGrimm.5624]

17 hours ago, dead.7638 said:

Sarcasm is clearly wasted here.

No, its a matter of context. Apply it to regulars and all good. Apply it to players not used to Forum Wars 2 and not so much since your point might miss the mark and then lead to forum lurkers with missing details. 

[Xzygy.1452]

A very long time ago, I was a skill clicker.  You'll read stories often of clickers becoming keybinders, but never keybinders becoming clickers.  The difference it makes is massive.  You don't need to find and select the ability you want, your finger knows where it is and hits it.

There is no upgrade you can make to your PC, no item or consumable you can have, that will make a larger difference than learning to keybind.

It feels like this is hard to do, but take it slow.  Pick one ability, just one.  put it somewhere on your keyboard that is comfortable to hit while also hitting your WASD (I prefer ESDF) for movement.  When you use that one ability, try to hit the key, but click everything else as you're used to.  Play that way for a day or two, and when it feels like second nature, add another.  Don't rush it, don't try to do everything at once, just one ability.

It will happen, slowly, but it will.

 

[Malak.7108]

5 hours ago, Xzygy.1452 said:

A very long time ago, I was a skill clicker.  You'll read stories often of clickers becoming keybinders, but never keybinders becoming clickers.  The difference it makes is massive.  You don't need to find and select the ability you want, your finger knows where it is and hits it.

There is no upgrade you can make to your PC, no item or consumable you can have, that will make a larger difference than learning to keybind.

It feels like this is hard to do, but take it slow.  Pick one ability, just one.  put it somewhere on your keyboard that is comfortable to hit while also hitting your WASD (I prefer ESDF) for movement.  When you use that one ability, try to hit the key, but click everything else as you're used to.  Play that way for a day or two, and when it feels like second nature, add another.  Don't rush it, don't try to do everything at once, just one ability.

It will happen, slowly, but it will.

 

Thank you - its good to hear, and you are spot on about it being slow as many of us have tried.

About a year ago I decided to use E key for dodging instead of mouse clicking. Our commanders kept stressing dodge-dodge in zerg fights. However, it took me a week, many hours to master just this one key, but made surviving in zerg fights so much easier.  I then moved on to learn Q for weapon swap, it took even longer as it interfered with E. I still get them wrong,  guess its just age or tiredness, but was worth the effort.

[TheGrimm.5624]

26 minutes ago, Malak.7108 said:

Thank you - its good to hear, and you are spot on about it being slow as many of us have tried.

About a year ago I decided to use E key for dodging instead of mouse clicking. Our commanders kept stressing dodge-dodge in zerg fights. However, it took me a week, many hours to master just this one key, but made surviving in zerg fights so much easier.  I then moved on to learn Q for weapon swap, it took even longer as it interfered with E. I still get them wrong,  guess its just age or tiredness, but was worth the effort.

If you are in a guild you can also use the guild hall and guild mates to practice ideas which include working on bindings and the skills linked to them so don't miss out on that in the guild arena which Anet is looking to expand. 

[CafPow.1542]

How about reaper?

in the pvp section, you’ll probably not win much anyways op but i had the least issues in clearing camps n stuff as reaper. Full Marauder, Greatsword and Staff or Axe/Focus for more pvp usage.

[TheGrimm.5624]

17 minutes ago, CafPow.1542 said:

How about reaper?

in the pvp section, you’ll probably not win much anyways op but i had the least issues in clearing camps n stuff as reaper. Full Marauder, Greatsword and Staff or Axe/Focus for more pvp usage.

Power Reaper is still quite strong and good in both Roamer, Havoc and Warband play.

[CafPow.1542]

1 hour ago, TheGrimm.5624 said:

Power Reaper is still quite strong and good in both Roamer, Havoc and Warband play.

Yeah i think too. I meant to say, that as a „slow clicker“, OP won’t win much pvp encounters anyways. Which has nothing to do with the class ^^
 

generally i feel like necro is an awesome class for people who can’t play quick and easy. A lot of very effective LI Builds are found there, which is nice. That’s why i brought up reaper as a roamer.

i main reaper mostly and i play it in roaming and zerg situations. Works all quite okay.

Edited December 17, 2023 by CafPow.1542

[meerfunkuhtron.9725]

On 12/14/2023 at 9:09 AM, Riba.3271 said:

I would suggest to learn to not mouseclick and use hotkeys.  Even for younger people it gets several weeks to get used to. It isn't that elderly are unable to learn, they're just unwilling. Most of the time age is just an excuse.

I don't think "can't learn" is the excuse for older folks but we have to consider physical ability. As OP stated - reaction time. I'm not old, but I have bad wrists from various injuries that didn't heal correctly. My hands will sometimes be so stiff and hard to work with that even though my brain is saying "hit that key!" (which I have bound to my mouse), my hand just simply can't and I actually have to click the skill instead.

There's dimensions to this. I wouldn't readily assume that someone just refuses to learn if they're having a hard time with something.

Edited December 23, 2023 by meerfunkuhtron.9725

[Deniara Devious.3948]

I am in my 50s and my reflexes certainly are much slower than when I was around 20. Plus I have several small kids around me, which make the gaming even more "exciting".

And even in my youth I was much slower than most people and I absolutely sucked at sports requiring aiming or fast reflexes.

Despite all my flaws, I still love roaming and I always use my own sub-optimal builds, which almost all are core builds, I tend not to use anything from the expansions except mount and gliding. I also tend to shy away from evades, invulnerability, blocks, stealth and shadow step as they are feel like cheating from my behalf. 

I use same build in pve, so I don't need to memorize too many builds for each characters. This important. I consider pve is boring, because in pve you basically only die when there is an boss fight which has an instant kill mechanism, everything else you can pretty much face tank and aggro as much mobs as you desire.

Clearing camps efficiently:
1. Stack the NPCs e.g. behind a building.
2. Kill the scouts first, as they blind & poison you. If it is an upgraded camp, then next kill the zealots.
3. Interrupt the lord heal skill.
4. Have build, which has enough AoE and I mean lots of spammable AoE. AoE blind is wonderful as their next attacks will miss you.
5. Spam your attacks, if your build is decent you don't need to use much any heals.
6. If it is t3 camp assisted by hylek & dredge mercs (only found in EBG), you might want to bring a friend. These camps are possible to solo, but if often takes 2-3 minutes at least and this is long enough for the defenders to appear.

Practice 20+ h with your new build in pve first. Try to solo some so called "difficult" content in pve to learn the rotations. Time your stuff.

Try to make a build, which can kill all the camp guards + lord in 1 minute. I find this 1 minute is critical. If you can flip a camp <1 minute, usually enemy isn't fast enough come to defend it.

Similar rules apply to soloing towers. Taking a tower alone will take a bit longer. I would say 3-4 minutes to get the lord down. Soloing keeps takes roughly twice that amount, plus time break down double walls/gates. Stone Mist Castle would take probably closer to 8-10 minutes to solo with a suboptimal core build, but I have never been lucky enough to do that undefended. SMC will always have defenders within 5 minutes, so you are out of luck trying to solo it.

I hope this helps,

Ayna from Desolation
 

Edited December 24, 2023 by Deniara Devious.3948

[JusticeRetroHunter.7684]

On 12/14/2023 at 6:07 AM, connor.2180 said:

Flamethrower Mech is probably the lowest intensity viable build. It's not optimal by any means, but you can viably play by just pressing 1 in the flamethrower kit while passively gaining perma stab and decent healing (use firearms/alchemy). Set the mech skills to autocast. You don't really have any class mechanics you need to focus on and can focus on other things. 

In the same regard, heal scrapper is also the same in that, spamming heal kit 1 is the most Efficient strategy for it (and using your wells on cooldown)

Heal mech was nerfed last year or something so it’s hard to recommend it anymore but if looking for that play style in a support role it exists.
 

ps: Relic of antitoxin being back might also alleviate some of the impact of those nerfs

 

Edited December 24, 2023 by JusticeRetroHunter.7684

[Malak.7108]

On 12/23/2023 at 10:00 PM, Deniara Devious.3948 said:

I am in my 50s and my reflexes certainly are much slower than when I was around 20. Plus I have several small kids around me, which make the gaming even more "exciting".

And even in my youth I was much slower than most people and I absolutely sucked at sports requiring aiming or fast reflexes.

Despite all my flaws, I still love roaming and I always use my own sub-optimal builds, which almost all are core builds, I tend not to use anything from the expansions except mount and gliding. I also tend to shy away from evades, invulnerability, blocks, stealth and shadow step as they are feel like cheating from my behalf. 

I use same build in pve, so I don't need to memorize too many builds for each characters. This important. I consider pve is boring, because in pve you basically only die when there is an boss fight which has an instant kill mechanism, everything else you can pretty much face tank and aggro as much mobs as you desire.

Clearing camps efficiently:
1. Stack the NPCs e.g. behind a building.
2. Kill the scouts first, as they blind & poison you. If it is an upgraded camp, then next kill the zealots.
3. Interrupt the lord heal skill.
4. Have build, which has enough AoE and I mean lots of spammable AoE. AoE blind is wonderful as their next attacks will miss you.
5. Spam your attacks, if your build is decent you don't need to use much any heals.
6. If it is t3 camp assisted by hylek & dredge mercs (only found in EBG), you might want to bring a friend. These camps are possible to solo, but if often takes 2-3 minutes at least and this is long enough for the defenders to appear.

Practice 20+ h with your new build in pve first. Try to solo some so called "difficult" content in pve to learn the rotations. Time your stuff.

Try to make a build, which can kill all the camp guards + lord in 1 minute. I find this 1 minute is critical. If you can flip a camp <1 minute, usually enemy isn't fast enough come to defend it.

Similar rules apply to soloing towers. Taking a tower alone will take a bit longer. I would say 3-4 minutes to get the lord down. Soloing keeps takes roughly twice that amount, plus time break down double walls/gates. Stone Mist Castle would take probably closer to 8-10 minutes to solo with a suboptimal core build, but I have never been lucky enough to do that undefended. SMC will always have defenders within 5 minutes, so you are out of luck trying to solo it.

I hope this helps,

Ayna from Desolation
 

Thank you for sharing. Its sounds we are both slower physically than most so have to work harder or think more, or both :)  I'll be 70 soon, so quite a lot  slower, cognitively to. But still my broken Vindi has beaten a few more players and camps since last post - so perhaps Anet developed it for us.

I'm going to try your list of things and see how it goes. Many years ago with DH I tried to solo Stoic Lord in Desert BL - took 20 mins to get it to 85% - I was mentally and physically, exhausted - so ran away. Just shows Desert BL - no one turned up to defend their Garri - lucky me. Anyhow, T0 towers sounds something to aim for.  Note, Desert BL - still the best map.

By the way, my Vindi was broken, couldn't select Legendary Centaur etc, as no option on stances. Only fixed option was Assassin / Demon. Anyway, last night finally started the Dragon expansion and made progress - and magically the Vindi Legendary option etc appeared.  Perhaps a no-brainer to have started Dragons before hand - or perhaps coincidence.

It simply never occurred to me to try the PVE areas - thank you - I'm going to practice there first but didn't know about the Boss instant kill. This game is so wide and deep.

All the best,

Malak  from Anvil Rock

P.S when your kids are old enough you can make havoc squad :)

[Malak.7108]

Just had a great reality check:-

Nearly took a T0 camp when a single player opp approached and they seemed very cautious. They then killed me in about 30 seconds with massive damage - I only took their health bar down 15%. A few minutes later we met at another camp but this time no caution from them - they destroyed me in less than 10 seconds. Kudos to them 😉 

I've no idea what class they were, and in neither fight did I dodge or have any idea how to survive - only knew attack. Clearly I'm a newbie but still fun to meet such players. Need to get some theory and then muscle memory working. Time for YT vids and lots of practice.

Lesson learnt, if you are already dead, you can't fight back 😞

[TheGrimm.5624]

4 hours ago, Malak.7108 said:

Just had a great reality check:-

Nearly took a T0 camp when a single player opp approached and they seemed very cautious. They then killed me in about 30 seconds with massive damage - I only took their health bar down 15%. A few minutes later we met at another camp but this time no caution from them - they destroyed me in less than 10 seconds. Kudos to them 😉 

I've no idea what class they were, and in neither fight did I dodge or have any idea how to survive - only knew attack. Clearly I'm a newbie but still fun to meet such players. Need to get some theory and then muscle memory working. Time for YT vids and lots of practice.

Lesson learnt, if you are already dead, you can't fight back 😞

Still not a bad idea to find some like minded battlebuddies. Roaming solo is one of the hardest things you are trying out there since odds are good you will be outnumbered. I like roaming as well when not in a Havoc but you are upping your challenge level as well. Seems like you have the right mindset for it, but don't discount the fact that you started out with the 'Hold My Beer!' challenge toggle on. 🙂 

Good hunting!

Edit: Since you mentioned not knowing the class you fought, I would work on that since some classes do better versus other classes and getting used to knowing them may help more in future fights. You can use the wiki and third party build sites like gw2skills.net to build out what the class might have been using to better plan for them in the future fights, or to give you insight into if you want to try out that build for your own use.

Edited December 25, 2023 by TheGrimm.5624
Edit: Fights and IDing classes

[ArchonWing.9480]

It's pretty hard to know all the specs; there's like what? 36 of them?

Usually the combat log would tell you but only afterwards.

[TheGrimm.5624]

21 hours ago, ArchonWing.9480 said:

It's pretty hard to know all the specs; there's like what? 36 of them?

Usually the combat log would tell you but only afterwards.

More to the point if they keep seeing the same symbol and its something that is giving them more grief than others. Then it has value to look up. Again wouldn't recommend roaming unless you are looking to up your challenge level. With upcoming changes to the guild hall also recommend players to use guild mates to test out what might have gone wrong there so they can see what they might have done differently. All that requires is a small to medium guild or some alt-o-holic guildmates that might have 30 some toons. 😉 

[jakob.7210]

folks - too many words and no conclusion - give us builds so we can try out