Reworking SA traitline or adding improved reveal to all classes

[Sobx.1758]

1 hour ago, TrollingDemigod.3041 said:

Yes and no, teefs has too much mobility outside of stealth access, so their reset potential is too high and allowing them to stack stealth out of combat will not fix much. If they would be out of combat for longer than 30s then sure, but if they get out of combat and then can stack stealth again then no.

Currently there are other builds that can match or nearly match thiefs though. If there's an issue with mobility, it's an issue with mobility and not with stealth. If we were to lock stealth stacking for as much as 30 seconds out of combat, we should also address things like entering and exiting structures every second, porting to wps right when getting ooc or elementalists downstating into towers/keeps as if it's their save point against losses. In other words: I find it weird that this is somehow the thing some people have issue with ooc, when there's plenty other doing similar thing even in-combat.

Edited December 31, 2023 by Sobx.1758

[Arianth Moonlight.6453]

Necro DS #5 does wonders. All other classes should have something similar, at least tie to their profession mechanism.

[Dawdler.8521]

7 minutes ago, Arianth Moonlight.6453 said:

Necro DS #5 does wonders. All other classes should have something similar, at least tie to their profession mechanism.

Remember when scrapper was the perfect anti-stealth class? 

Then Anet said no. 

You're an engineer you cant do that. And also, kitten your stealth you cant have that.

Edited December 31, 2023 by Dawdler.8521

[schokelmei.8271]

Just make it like Warhammer Online stealth:
Give people an ability like Detection (on Armor as a stat or as trait or both) and let it work on 900 range. If your detection # is > # stealth you detect stealthed players and they get marked for you (means you can attack), but you can't detect any stealthed player over 900 range of you
Get rid of tower and sentry mark for stealthed players
Make stealth a similar ability you can stack to  maximum of x (on Armor, so you have to choose Stealth+ over Crit/Power etc.)

If you are stealthed you can stay stealthed until you attack, after that stealth goes on a cooldown and there is now way of re-stealthing until out of combat. or the cd is ready.

 

Something like this would be nice and you could finally have other options for roaming with countering a playstyle that has no counter but port away.

Edited December 31, 2023 by schokelmei.8271
clarifying stuff

[solemn.9670]

22 hours ago, Acemos.2856 said:

It’s sad to see these posts over and over again; instead of learning how to counter a class that is meant for roaming and stealth, some people prefer to complain and hope that Arenanet will change the game to suit them. Whenever I see posts like this, I have to wonder if you have any experience with thief or if you're even here to have a constructive discussion. In fact, I just checked your forum history and it’s full of you ranting on various threads about how thief is OP, deadeye is OP, shadow arts is OP, and Cele is balanced and fine (lol). You have the means, you just need to stop being lazy and get better. From some of the comments in this thread, it seems that some don’t even grasp the basics of the game. Target painters are easy to use and mark a thief for 30 seconds; it’s not just a reveal, it forces thieves out of stealth if they stay longer than 1 second, essentially giving you the upper hand in a fight. A skilled player wouldn’t even need target painters because they can handle thieves and stealth, probably because they know the class’s abilities and tactics. That’s what it boils down to. Improve, expand your choices, and be creative with solutions. Don’t be scared to adapt and switch utilities or even traits.

Rare thief W post, actually quite a reasonable thing to say. However the solution you reference is having superior mobility & running away. 7k hits out of near-perma stealth is not counterable for most builds and even classes entirely.

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

I still remember when PU gave 100% longer stealth and thieves were farmed left and right, they were the first ones to come to the forums and cry nerf.
As soon as it got nerfed suddenly stealth became a l2p issue.
The irony.

[XenesisII.1540]

Thieves, forcing everyone to fight with an open inventory for reveal.

😏

[Neukku.5713]

On 12/30/2023 at 5:00 PM, kiranslee.4829 said:

At what point in what is now , 11 years now, we are going to see SA traitline reworked and more reveal added to all classes/builds. Maybe its possible to make thief class that needs some skill to play at some point ? Just a thought 😄 .

I think pew pew is working pretty good, what do you think?

[Auragen.4162]

19 hours ago, XenesisII.1540 said:

Thieves, forcing everyone to fight with an open inventory for reveal.

😏

Um, people should be grateful that is an option at all. I would have way too much fun if I could turn off others' class mechanics by just using some supply lol.

[Auragen.4162]

On 12/31/2023 at 11:57 AM, Dawdler.8521 said:

Remember when scrapper was the perfect anti-stealth class? 

Then Anet said no. 

You're an engineer you cant do that.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Lock_On

Engineer counters stealth by brainlessly spamming AoE or tracking projectiles. The trait has TWO reveal CDs available on it. How is this not the 'perfect anti-stealth class'? 🤪Game is already playing itself for engineers vs thief and it's still not enough apparently.

BTW friendly reminder Explosive Entrance still exists, is a free 2k-3k damage on each dodge that also blinds/dazes, and is not affected by blind/evade. I literally get revealed by Holos dodging with Vent Exhaust + Explosive Entrance + Lock On whether I'm in stealth or not, because when I'm above 90% health I get dazed which triggers Lock On.

inb4 'thief mobility so broken' after infiltrator arrow costs half a whole initiative bar now lmao

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Rocket_Boots

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shift_Signet

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Gyroscopic_Acceleration

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Speed_of_Synergy

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Kinetic_Battery

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Crystal_Configuration:_Zephyr

Edited January 2 by Auragen.4162

[UncreativeGreen.2019]

5 minutes ago, Auragen.4162 said:

Um, people should be grateful that is an option at all. I would have way too much fun if I could turn off others' class mechanics by just using some supply lol.

Pretty sure initiative and steal are thief’s class mechanics… not stealth. 

[Auragen.4162]

Just now, UncreativeGreen.2019 said:

Pretty sure initiative and steal are thief’s class mechanics… not stealth. 

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Stealth_Attack

[UncreativeGreen.2019]

4 minutes ago, Auragen.4162 said:

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Stealth_Attack

Thanks, forgot one…and stealth attacks as a class mechanic… but still not stealth. Just like elementalist can detonate auras, but auras aren’t its class mechanic. It’s a game wide mechanic of their combo system that classes can use.

[Burial.1958]

15 minutes ago, Auragen.4162 said:

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Lock_On

Engineer counters stealth by brainlessly spamming AoE or tracking projectiles. The trait has TWO reveal CDs available on it. How is this not the 'perfect anti-stealth class'? 🤪Game is already playing itself for engineers vs thief and it's still not enough apparently.

inb4 'thief mobility so broken' after infiltrator arrow costs half a whole initiative bar now lmao

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Rocket_Boots

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shift_Signet

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Gyroscopic_Acceleration

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Speed_of_Synergy

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Kinetic_Battery

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Crystal_Configuration:_Zephyr

There is also a Warrior build with nearly perma reveal and with it u can kill Thiefs pretty EZ. 🙃 But yeah Engi has easy time with Thief, same also with Soulbeast. 

[Curennos.9307]

Shadow Arts is fine. Anet just needs to make using attack skills immediately break stealth.For thief, possibly make steal break it as well but let stealth attacks remain usable for a second or two after.

[Auragen.4162]

44 minutes ago, UncreativeGreen.2019 said:

Thanks, forgot one…and stealth attacks as a class mechanic… but still not stealth. Just like elementalist can detonate auras, but auras aren’t its class mechanic. It’s a game wide mechanic of their combo system that classes can use.

Stealth Attacks are a core profession mechanic that has been with Thief since launch.

Ambush skills are a class mechanic of Mirage, Stealth Attacks are a class mechanic of Thief.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Ambush

 

You are thinking of Sequence Skills, which Transmute X Aura skills fall under.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Sequence_skill

Edited January 2 by Auragen.4162

[UncreativeGreen.2019]

11 minutes ago, Auragen.4162 said:

Stealth Attacks are a core profession mechanic that has been with Thief since launch.

Ambush skills are a class mechanic of Mirage, Stealth Attacks are a class mechanic of Thief.

I agreed and thanked you for reminding me about stealth attacks, but stealth still isn’t a class mechanic, it’s a game mechanic. It may fuel your class mechanic, but it’s not the soul thing your class revolves around. And that Ambush analogy is basically saying “stealth attacks are fueled by stealth. Ambush is fueled by evades. Therefore evade is a class mechanic of Mirage.”

[Auragen.4162]

35 minutes ago, UncreativeGreen.2019 said:

I agreed and thanked you for reminding me about stealth attacks, but stealth still isn’t a class mechanic, it’s a game mechanic. It may fuel your class mechanic, but it’s not the soul thing your class revolves around. And that Ambush analogy is basically saying “stealth attacks are fueled by stealth. Ambush is fueled by evades. Therefore evade is a class mechanic of Mirage.”

I have never said stealth is a class mechanic lol. You're kinda just inserting that. I only care about access to stealth attacks which IS a class mechanic.

 

35 minutes ago, UncreativeGreen.2019 said:

"Therefore evade is a class mechanic of Mirage.”

Have you noticed that Mirages....dodge differently? Lmfao. Maybe leave determining what's a class mechanic to more able minds.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mirage_Cloak

Edited January 2 by Auragen.4162

[kash.9213]

On 12/30/2023 at 9:41 AM, TrollingDemigod.3041 said:

At this point, I'm confident that all teef mains has an alarm that goes off whenever someone wants to bring teefs bs in line with other non-clownish classes. Dude instantly brings Target Painter to the table, forgetting that's a tool to mark enemy position for your whole server to see their movement, not some tool to fight clowns. Funnily enough, stealth abusers always forget it requires to hit a target (which will fail if enemy just steps outside or ports away) and it costs supplies which is finite amount. And it's not reveal but marked, which still allows stealth~
Imagine that you could only sit in stealth for maximum 3s and after that you're getting revealed for 3s that can't be removed in any way, but nooo, that would be too balanced and teefs would actually need to learn how to play. 

No one needs an alarm for posts crying about thieves, there will normally be multiple threads near the top of the front page. People responding to your screeching and bad takes doesn't mean they're looking for you on the forums. 

I rarely need more than 3 seconds and most Stealth Attacks aren't going to be strong enough to bother anyway. You could make that revealed more than 3 seconds and my game play doesn't change much at all. 

Shadow Meld doesn't remove Revealed anymore. 

Edited January 2 by kash.9213

[TrollingDemigod.3041]

2 hours ago, kash.9213 said:

No one needs an alarm for posts crying about thieves, there will normally be multiple threads near the top of the front page. People responding to your screeching and bad takes doesn't mean they're looking for you on the forums. 

I rarely need more than 3 seconds and most Stealth Attacks aren't going to be strong enough to bother anyway. You could make that revealed more than 3 seconds and my game play doesn't change much at all. 

Shadow Meld doesn't remove Revealed anymore. 

Yet you guys keep swarming like moths to a flame. I wonder why there are multiple threads, maybe because there is a problem?
Sure, if you say that guaranteed reveal can be more than 3s, then let's go with 3s stealth and 10s revealed. Won't be a problem for you as you've just wrote.
Wasn't thinking about Shadow Meld, but more of a potential future A-net brilliant balalnce ideas.
Teef mains.🤡

[kash.9213]

25 minutes ago, TrollingDemigod.3041 said:

Yet you guys keep swarming like moths to a flame. I wonder why there are multiple threads, maybe because there is a problem?
Sure, if you say that guaranteed reveal can be more than 3s, then let's go with 3s stealth and 10s revealed. Won't be a problem for you as you've just wrote.
Wasn't thinking about Shadow Meld, but more of a potential future A-net brilliant balalnce ideas.
Teef mains.🤡

You're the third person to post in this thread. You're the one who ran to it. It's a forum, people are going to check out threads and respond. If you don't want your bad takes ran over, then go make a forum where only you can post. 

"if you say that guaranteed reveal can be more than 3s, then let's go with 3s stealth and 10s revealed". - TrollingDemigod everyone. Brilliant. If you need 10 seconds to quit tripping over yourself and think of something to do, Anet would need to revert Shadow Arts though since that was more about camping in stealth instead of coming out of it, and you can forget that 3s cap on stealth. If you need free kills, there are maps in the core world for you. 

Go ahead and say what you thought removed revealed. You put the soundbite there to influence people reading this thread. Maybe slow down and don't rush to another nerf thief thread like a moth to a flame and put some thought to the game mechanics like thief mains have to when people try to nerf an entire class because they can't be bothered to try or to even read anything pertinent to what they're on about. 

Edited January 2 by kash.9213

[TrollingDemigod.3041]

13 hours ago, kash.9213 said:

You're the third person to post in this thread. You're the one who ran to it. It's a forum, people are going to check out threads and respond. If you don't want your bad takes ran over, then go make a forum where only you can post. 

"if you say that guaranteed reveal can be more than 3s, then let's go with 3s stealth and 10s revealed". - TrollingDemigod everyone. Brilliant. If you need 10 seconds to quit tripping over yourself and think of something to do, Anet would need to revert Shadow Arts though since that was more about camping in stealth instead of coming out of it, and you can forget that 3s cap on stealth. If you need free kills, there are maps in the core world for you. 

Go ahead and say what you thought removed revealed. You put the soundbite there to influence people reading this thread. Maybe slow down and don't rush to another nerf thief thread like a moth to a flame and put some thought to the game mechanics like thief mains have to when people try to nerf an entire class because they can't be bothered to try or to even read anything pertinent to what they're on about. 

Indeed, yet the teef main was faster than me on posting, probably because he shadowstepped from stealth stacking when he heard "teef alarm" in his bedroom that someone dares to propose fixing garbo mechanic called stealth. I came to this thread because I was simply curious "how long it'll take to some teef main rush here and defend busted mechanic", then I saw some teef main tripping on first reply, that's all.
Hey, once again, you wrote it won't matter to you teef main if reveal was longer, so I proposed more balanced approach of 3s stealth and 10s revealed as a base game design for that mechanic. So stop using mental flips.
That's your delusion, there was reveal removal and what stops A-net from adding such thing again in the future? Nothing. So better to make such statements clear earlier than too late.
Still I didn't see any real proposal how to fix stealth in this game by teef mains. Oh right, for teefs it is balanced mechanic.

[kiranslee.4829]

Aside to stealth trap (that made mi giggle) , can any of you "i cant play nothing but SA thief" explain how is that the only class that was S tier for past 10 years is , well, thief ? Main eles, warriors, guards, etc, had to l2p for years , change traits , adapt , even change mains with all nerfs/fixes/updates to their classes. On the other side d/p thief, and DE, hardly moved one or two utility and traits in all this time.

One other question, how many top tier roamers atm play warrior as opposed to thief ? 

When you fight thief and he runs into water (fish called slonder), what happens when u follow it there 🙂 ?

[DarkFlopy.8197]

🍿

[Burial.1958]

21 minutes ago, kiranslee.4829 said:

Aside to stealth trap (that made mi giggle) , can any of you "i cant play nothing but SA thief" explain how is that the only class that was S tier for past 10 years is , well, thief ? Main eles, warriors, guards, etc, had to l2p for years , change traits , adapt , even change mains with all nerfs/fixes/updates to their classes. On the other side d/p thief, and DE, hardly moved one or two utility and traits in all this time.

One other question, how many top tier roamers atm play warrior as opposed to thief ? 

When you fight thief and he runs into water (fish called slonder), what happens when u follow it there 🙂 ?

Easy answer bro because other traitlines are mostly kitten (No sustain, no ini reg, bad condi cleanse for D/P).  Trickery still mandatory without it u can't even play because Ini is to high.