Now we have whole roaming Guilds using all CELE

[Hotride.2187]

"You dont do as much dmg as glass cannon"

You do way more because unlike the glass cannon, you dont get melted in 10 seconds.

Or you live in some ideal scenario with a pocket healer? That is doing the sustain for you?

[Gotejjeken.1267]

These 'roaming guilds' just go up to nc and farm hapless WvW players that have no idea what CC is.

Seriously, I watched it happen two nights in a row now with a certain GoM guild that has a pension for chasing noobs around DBL nc--they would 'farm' 5-10 people at a time, but all said people were spamming 1, not cc'ing, and not focusing any of them.

I killed the wb of the group with some cc, but was not about to be bothered to chase the two thieves with them.  WB then comes back as untamed, which is easier kill--down them again and walk away--then they bring a spectre and some spellbreakers.  Have to be smart enough to know to leave them then--eventually another boon 'roaming' guild came and they fought each other for like 15 minutes.  

The tldr; is unless you PvP and understand positioning / cc mechanics, just ride by on your warclaw or use one of the two exits they aren't at.  Haplessly fighting and dying is the most ridiculous case of insanity to me.  

[urd.8306]

3 hours ago, Hotride.2187 said:

"You dont do as much dmg as glass cannon"

You do way more because unlike the glass cannon, you dont get melted in 10 seconds.

Or you live in some ideal scenario with a pocket healer? That is doing the sustain for you?

So, you mean Cele is similar to thief where you can run Berserker/Valk/Marauder and still never die?
That would mean balancing finally achieved.

[ItsBooscuits.6791]

I understand a lot of the benefits of cele is for the new player experience ( which I have my own opinion because it doesn't teach a new player how stats work but at the same time most new people to the game as a whole aren't jumping into wvw ) I also understand that it's decent for people who do not play small-scale often and I also understand that cele does not effect zerg play. It's unhealthy only in small scale fights, and it kills smallscale build diversity there is 0 reason play something else unless you are playing support for a small group which even then you could just use cele and change a few traits to keep a small group alive on let's say tempest and playing power into cele feels like an uphill battle. I would argue even that cele is not the problem but maybe that boons are too accessible now and concentration may just be too strong in its current state because of the easy access too boons However it seems like devs are working in a direction where everything has access to most boons so I don't see them changing that either, maybe lowering the concentration would be a good change maybe lowering the power scaling on cele or even the healing power I don't know what the best solution is but in small scale it is very much overturned I get it people like it and people dislike being 1 shot as well by roamers in glass but on the other side it's not fun for a roamer to have to run cele if they encounter another roamer running cele because if both players or groups are good it often ends in a stalemate and to roamers who enjoy playing power bursting someone who didn't dodge eats the full burst puts everything on cd and then watch the person who had 0 interaction heal to full and continue pressuring you, and if you think that doesn't happen you don't small-scale enough and so if it isn't an issue for zerg play then why is everyone so against finding a better solution for small scale which exist whether you want it to or not. And I'm sure a ton of people will dislike that which is fine because none of us can come to a middle ground because someone has to be right or wrong discussions are difficult.

Maybe it's finally time to separate wvw stats from pve as well. Because cele is fine In pve as well.

Edited January 12 by ItsBooscuits.6791

[XIIICaesar.8451]

On 1/3/2024 at 12:23 PM, Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

Make everyone able to use cele and then we'll all be unkillable and the game will be a stall forevermore. Fun times ahead!

Literally anyone that goes into WvW can equip Celestial gear. 

[XIIICaesar.8451]

On 1/9/2024 at 11:34 PM, CafPow.1542 said:

Even better.

i think when you fight them and they can’t kill you but it’s hard to kill them … this is fair.

as it is when you engage a glasscannon. You oneshot him or he deletes you in a second.

that‘s exactly the point of those builds, for me a figt that goes on for a minute or 2 is way more fun than being globaled into dowend state in a blink of an eye.

but I’d never consider coming here and crying for nerfs.

Finally someone got it right lol. 

[XIIICaesar.8451]

On 1/4/2024 at 1:46 PM, Sonork.2916 said:

Cele is great at power, condi and survivability.   The boon duration the set provides makes powerful boons likes protection/resist and might near infinite.  Making 25 stacks of might easy to obtain and keep up on a decent amount of classes, which increases someone's power and condi damage by... 750 power/condi which puts cele close if not equal to where full power/condi builds sit for those stats while also providing everything else.

Celestial gives an okay amount of damage but great survivability. Marauders, berserker, the plethora id viable condi set give awesome DPS but not survivability. That's the trade off. You wanna delete someone in a burst? Run all damage. You wanna survive that burst? Wear nothing but defensive stat gear. You wanna survive a burst & do damage but know it's not gonna be quick fight wear Celestial. There's a trade off for all the gear stats. 

[XIIICaesar.8451]

On 1/4/2024 at 2:26 PM, CafPow.1542 said:

If there only was a way to obtain boons for non-cele builds.

cele does less damage than pure dps builds. I still stand to that.

A full Marauder/Berserker/Viper build does way more damage than a full Celestial. 

[gofriccurself.9037]

On 1/12/2024 at 1:45 AM, Hotride.2187 said:

Or you live in some ideal scenario with a pocket healer? That is doing the sustain for you?

Hey look a solution!

[Zyreva.1078]

1 hour ago, XIIICaesar.8451 said:

A full Marauder/Berserker/Viper build does way more damage than a full Celestial. 

Mara/zerk has more burst againt a squishy target, but cele has better overall pressure (viper would lose out in pretty much every regard). And in a direct fight the superior burst of a power build is completely negated by cele defense, while cele has more dmg than a pure power build can handle, so it is a very clear win for cele with no real downside.

[XIIICaesar.8451]

2 hours ago, Zyreva.1078 said:

Mara/zerk has more burst againt a squishy target, but cele has better overall pressure (viper would lose out in pretty much every regard). And in a direct fight the superior burst of a power build is completely negated by cele defense, while cele has more dmg than a pure power build can handle, so it is a very clear win for cele with no real downside.

So your saying Celestial doesn't do as much damage as a glass cannon but has enough defense it isn't deleted in one burst. Celestial however does have enough damage it can still at least pressure a glass cannon. I think you've pointed the downside right there. Celestial is a middling set between damage & defense. Not all in defense to be a bunker build with no damage but not all in damage to be a glass cannon. Unless I'm reading that wrong, isn't that the tradeoff that it's not all in one way or the other & instead a middle ground? 

[Kayowin.9217]

1 hour ago, XIIICaesar.8451 said:

So your saying Celestial doesn't do as much damage as a glass cannon but has enough defense it isn't deleted in one burst. Celestial however does have enough damage it can still at least pressure a glass cannon. I think you've pointed the downside right there. Celestial is a middling set between damage & defense. Not all in defense to be a bunker build with no damage but not all in damage to be a glass cannon. Unless I'm reading that wrong, isn't that the tradeoff that it's not all in one way or the other & instead a middle ground? 

Once the might ramps up from the added concentration for the cele spec classes that use it, it can absolutely hurt.   It is difficult for most of the one shot builds to down a cele spec abuser target within the time of their one shot CD, as the fight quickly favors the latter as the time of the engagement marches forward.     They really need to increase boon degradation, the higher you stack it, the faster it is consumed, than it is now...   

[Zyreva.1078]

1 hour ago, XIIICaesar.8451 said:

Unless I'm reading that wrong, isn't that the tradeoff that it's not all in one way or the other & instead a middle ground? 

It's hardly a trade off if you gain much more than you lose and the downside ends up being more theoretical than relevant in practise because of that.

[XIIICaesar.8451]

9 minutes ago, Kayowin.9217 said:

Once the might ramps up from the added concentration for the cele spec classes that use it, it can absolutely hurt.   It is difficult for most of the one shot builds to down a cele spec abuser target within the time of their one shot CD, as the fight quickly favors the latter as the time of the engagement marches forward.     They really need to increase boon degradation, the higher you stack it, the faster it is consumed, than it is now...   

Considering what you're saying, it seems Celestial acts as a counter to one shot glass cannons. So, here's an idea, hear it out. Instead of asking for a nerf to a gear stat set that is comparatively a smaller portion of players (roamers/small scale) because it counter the glass cannons that are a majority of builds, why not sacrifice a small portion of the stats glass cannons use & instead mix in some defensive trinkets etc to give their builds sustain as well while still holding more DPS than Celestial at that point but enough sustain/defense to go toe to toe as well? Isn't that what counter play is? 

Edited January 13 by XIIICaesar.8451

[Nefras.7314]

1 minute ago, XIIICaesar.8451 said:

Considering what you're saying, it seems Celestial acts as a counter to one shot glass cannons. So, here's an idea, hear it out. Instead of asking for a nerf to a gear stat set that is comparatively a smaller portion of players (roamers/small scale) because it counter the glass cannons that are a majority of builds, why not sacrifice a small portion of the stats glass cannons use & instead mix in some defensive trinkets etc to give their builds sustain as well while still holding more DPS than Celestial at that point but enough sustain/defense to go toe to toe as well? 

ah yes just stat in defensive quad stats on power builds .... oh look you just made a build that has less power damage, no condi pressure and less survivability than cele builds amazing.

[Kayowin.9217]

7 minutes ago, XIIICaesar.8451 said:

Considering what you're saying, it seems Celestial acts as a counter to one shot glass cannons. So, here's an idea, hear it out. Instead of asking for a nerf to a gear stat set that is comparatively a smaller portion of players (roamers/small scale) because it counter the glass cannons that are a majority of builds, why not sacrifice a small portion of the stats glass cannons use & instead mix in some defensive trinkets etc to give their builds sustain as well while still holding more DPS than Celestial at that point but enough sustain/defense to go toe to toe as well? 

The counter should be a full minstrel or other defensive stat type build, or a pocket healer with the glass.  I have seen some cele on cele action that went on for 15+ min until they both just bowed and left the building.  (likely with cramped fingers)  The fact that it can only be taken out reliably by a burst stealth spec or another certain specialization which will not be named here, is a problem.  The sad thing is I like Cele, and have been using it in builds long before the stat change when it skyrocketed in popularity.   But the Might stacking needs to be detuned (like all boon stacking does) or the abusing elite specs do.

Edited January 13 by Kayowin.9217
sp

[Zyreva.1078]

50 minutes ago, XIIICaesar.8451 said:

Considering what you're saying, it seems Celestial acts as a counter to one shot glass cannons.

Cele isn't a counter to glass cannons. It's a counter to everything and non cele brawler or hybrid builds tend to fare even worse against cele than pure glass cannons, because they end up weaker in pretty much every aspect. Cele just offers too many total stats after getting those huge unnecessary buffs a few years ago. There is no alternative and no counter, except bringing more players. Which just shows how broken it is.

Edited January 13 by Zyreva.1078

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

1 hour ago, XIIICaesar.8451 said:

Considering what you're saying, it seems Celestial acts as a counter to one shot glass cannons. So, here's an idea, hear it out. Instead of asking for a nerf to a gear stat set that is comparatively a smaller portion of players (roamers/small scale) because it counter the glass cannons that are a majority of builds, why not sacrifice a small portion of the stats glass cannons use & instead mix in some defensive trinkets etc to give their builds sustain as well while still holding more DPS than Celestial at that point but enough sustain/defense to go toe to toe as well? Isn't that what counter play is? 

Cele armor/trinkets have ~1950 more stats than 4 stats armor/trinkets.
And glass cannons are the ones that need to sacrifice something.

[Axelteas.7192]

On 1/3/2024 at 8:21 PM, TrollingDemigod.3041 said:

These kitten celestial core Eles wiping everyone in WvW.
I wonder what's the real reason for it to be "too strong" stats set~ Maybe... Powercreeped e-speces? Nah. That can't be the reason, right~ ( ✧≖ ͜ʖ≖)

knwothatfeelbro cele eles are in another level of toxicity

[Justine.6351]

4 hours ago, XIIICaesar.8451 said:

Considering what you're saying, it seems Celestial acts as a counter to one shot glass cannons. So, here's an idea, hear it out. Instead of asking for a nerf to a gear stat set that is comparatively a smaller portion of players (roamers/small scale) because it counter the glass cannons that are a majority of builds, why not sacrifice a small portion of the stats glass cannons use & instead mix in some defensive trinkets etc to give their builds sustain as well while still holding more DPS than Celestial at that point but enough sustain/defense to go toe to toe as well? Isn't that what counter play is? 

Its already hard to trade well against celestial so sacrificing stats to be more tanky to trade better is you also slotting celestial to trade better. And then we end up with 5 minute fights of people face tanking each other instead of learning how to play the game actively. The counter against celestial is typically boon removal. Guess what anet has spent the past year nerfing?

[phalaris.5134]

I love the celestial builds as it has its place in roaming, and honestly, if you know how to play your class well, you can counter play. 
 

If you die in a 1vs1 don’t blame the build, blame the operator. 

[Thizz.3970]

You guys just want to gank people and kill them in 1 to 4 seconds with your berserker builds..  Nope.  show your skill and lets prolong this fight.  

[Justine.6351]

7 hours ago, phalaris.5134 said:

I love the celestial builds as it has its place in roaming, and honestly, if you know how to play your class well, you can counter play. 
 

If you die in a 1vs1 don’t blame the build, blame the operator. 

"Just be better than them to counter their build."

It would be nice if that worked both ways...

[Meviken.2054]

On 1/3/2024 at 8:26 AM, Itachi.3610 said:

Facts.

Using it, and I still get punked a lot. Must not be all that OP.

[gofriccurself.9037]

1 minute ago, Meviken.2054 said:

Using it, and I still get punked a lot. Must not be all that OP.

Facts.