It is 2024. Remove Adrenaline and Flow Decay Out of Combat.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

Title.

Warrior has too many hoops to jump through at this point with how the other professions have evolved with their especs.

No other changes. Just remove the OOC adrenaline/flow decay.

[KryTiKaL.3125]

I just want them to do something to Warrior's profession mechanic to make it more modernized to what the game is now.

It has visibly not aged well with the games increasing focus on Boons and effect uptimes. In PvE its fine...because its PvE, but in Competitive modes its a vastly different experience. Especially when we have classes with such mobility that they can literally just force OOC.

Lovely game design.

[Fueki.4753]

The no option makes no sense. Even without the decay, Warrior is still hard mode.

Edited January 11 by Fueki.4753

[Myror.7521]

@Lan Deathrider.5910 could we also get this as poll Option? : No, just let us gain adrenaline when get hit by enemys Baseline xd

Edited January 11 by Myror.7521

[Korendil.5934]

Buff Greatsword, remove adrenaline decay and then warrior can warrior again. Right now it feels like such an antiquated role compare to the others that zap around with the Goku instant transmissions.

[Guy.9207]

I can see anet trying to come up with an excuse like "but then Bladesworn will be able to instantly use Dragon Trigger!" Which knowing Virtuoso is a thing, or Necros in general, doesn't really hold much weight.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

1 hour ago, Myror.7521 said:

@Lan Deathrider.5910 could we also get this as poll Option? : No, just let us gain adrenaline when get hit by enemys Baseline xd

No. There are plenty of ways of gaining Adrenaline, the issue here is the resource decay.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

3 hours ago, Fueki.4753 said:

The no option makes no sense. Even without the decay, Warrior is still hard mode.

Harder mode.

[Teknomancer.4895]

That's just buffing power-creep on top of existing power-creep though. I'd go the other way and apply the nerf bat, personally.

Decay all profession resources when OOC. Adrenaline, illusions, life force, initiative, energy, all of it. Not in combat anymore? No combat resource for you!

I main Mesmer and yes I know full well that would erase the Virtuoso's dagger halo until the start of combat, which is how it should have always been.

But it's ANet we're working with here, so power-creep away I guess.

[Vinny.7260]

11 minutes ago, Teknomancer.4895 said:

That's just buffing power-creep on top of existing power-creep though. I'd go the other way and apply the nerf bat, personally.

Decay all profession resources when OOC. Adrenaline, illusions, life force, initiative, energy, all of it. Not in combat anymore? No combat resource for you!

I main Mesmer and yes I know full well that would erase the Virtuoso's dagger halo until the start of combat, which is how it should have always been.

But it's ANet we're working with here, so power-creep away I guess.

Initiative decaying outside of a fight sounds like the exact antithesis of having initiative.

There's a difference between a combat mechanic and a profession mechanic. Think of Staff Burst for the upcoming weapon for Warrior. You want to be able to use Staff at the beginning to ensure allies get healed at the start of a fight.

Roaming between nodes to heal/cleanse allies and accidentally get OOC'd? You'll be able to keep your adrenaline.

Maybe limit it to keeping only 1 bar of adrenaline. It'd be great for Spellbreaker, functional enough for Berserker and Bladesworn.

 

There's also the thing of mentioning that things like Energy Costs on Revenant would have to be adjusted to consider the circumstances of accidentally OOCing and suddenly all your energy vanishing.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

25 minutes ago, Teknomancer.4895 said:

That's just buffing power-creep on top of existing power-creep though. I'd go the other way and apply the nerf bat, personally.

Decay all profession resources when OOC. Adrenaline, illusions, life force, initiative, energy, all of it. Not in combat anymore? No combat resource for you!

I main Mesmer and yes I know full well that would erase the Virtuoso's dagger halo until the start of combat, which is how it should have always been.

But it's ANet we're working with here, so power-creep away I guess.

While I love your watching the world burn point of view, I'd rather not diminish the fun of the other mains. This is about addressing inconsistencies.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

11 minutes ago, Vinny.7260 said:

Initiative decaying outside of a fight sounds like the exact antithesis of having initiative.

There's a difference between a combat mechanic and a profession mechanic. Think of Staff Burst for the upcoming weapon for Warrior. You want to be able to use Staff at the beginning to ensure allies get healed at the start of a fight.

Roaming between nodes to heal/cleanse allies and accidentally get OOC'd? You'll be able to keep your adrenaline.

Maybe limit it to keeping only 1 bar of adrenaline. It'd be great for Spellbreaker, functional enough for Berserker and Bladesworn.

Revisiting the Bursts skills in isolation after the fact is a possibility, but no, you get the bar you keep the bar until it is used.

11 minutes ago, Vinny.7260 said:

There's also the thing of mentioning that things like Energy Costs on Revenant would have to be adjusted to consider the circumstances of accidentally OOCing and suddenly all your energy vanishing.

As far as Rev goes, it resets to 50, not 0, so they have energy to use. They do not start at 0 energy when entering combat.

[Vinny.7260]

1 minute ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

As far as Rev goes, it resets to 50, not 0, so they have energy to use. They do not start at 0 energy when entering combat.

Yep! I was more-so just demonstrating the extremes of what would have to happen.

1 minute ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Revisiting the Bursts skills in isolation after the fact is a possibility, but no, you get the bar you keep the bar until it is used.

Yeeeeep. I was being a little bit of a devil's advocate about the person's stance on the concern of powercreep... I agree with your statement.

Allowing bursts to be used outside of combat could open up some neat traits like something in Tactics that causes using a burst skill to grant allies Barrier.

[DanAlcedo.3281]

I like how, when Ele got a better version of Adrenalin with Catalyst, they were up in arms and got the pitchforks.

That should say alot.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

6 minutes ago, DanAlcedo.3281 said:

I like how, when Ele got a better version of Adrenalin with Catalyst, they were up in arms and got the pitchforks.

That should say alot.

YEAH. I noticed that.

[Teknomancer.4895]

15 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

While I love your watching the world burn point of view

Hey, never leave a hornet's nest un-kicked. 😆

I get where you're all coming from, and warrior really is in a bad spot compared to other classes. It's just that I see that imbalance as the result of unnecessary buffs to the others while passing over warrior for equivalent buffs. Rather than adding to the power-creep, I'd prefer to roll back the earlier changes (even knowing that it's highly unlikely).

But again, it's ANet so more power-creep is the most likely change to be made.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

21 minutes ago, Teknomancer.4895 said:

Hey, never leave a hornet's nest un-kicked. 😆

I get where you're all coming from, and warrior really is in a bad spot compared to other classes. It's just that I see that imbalance as the result of unnecessary buffs to the others while passing over warrior for equivalent buffs. Rather than adding to the power-creep, I'd prefer to roll back the earlier changes (even knowing that it's highly unlikely).

But again, it's ANet so more power-creep is the most likely change to be made.

I get your POV 100%, but I make it a point to advocate for warrior rather than crying for nerfs for other professions. I'm not saying other specs don't need nerfs, they probably do, but that can happen while also addressing the issues that warrior has.

[RiyazGuerra.9203]

I'm not sure about removing Adrenaline decay fully when out of combat, but here are some tools that can be added to mitigate decay.

1. Change Signet of Rage from

Signet Passive: Grants adrenaline while in combat.

Signet Active: Gain fury, might, and swiftness.

To

Signet Passive: Adrenaline does not decay when out of combat.

Signet Active: Gain fury, might, and swiftness..

.

.

2. Add a new weapon sigil reminiscent of the GW1 Furious weapon upgrade mod

Sigil of Adrenaline: Attacks grant double Adrenaline.

.

.

3. Add a new effect, 'Angered' to healing, utility, elite skills which grant Adrenaline when activated. 

Angered effect: your Adrenaline does not decay for 10 seconds.

.

.

4. Add the functionality to Relic of the Warrior.

From

Relic of the Warrior: Weapon swap recharge time is reduced.

To

Relic of the Warrior: Adrenaline does not decay.  Weapon swap recharge time is reduced.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

I appreciate the feedback. Here is where I see these working/not working:

22 minutes ago, RiyazGuerra.9203 said:

I'm not sure about removing Adrenaline decay fully when out of combat, but here are some tools that can be added to mitigate decay.

1. Change Signet of Rage from

Signet Passive: Grants adrenaline while in combat.

Signet Active: Gain fury, might, and swiftness.

To

Signet Passive: Adrenaline does not decay when out of combat.

Signet Active: Gain fury, might, and swiftness..

This just makes SoR mandatory to carry around. Not a good idea.

22 minutes ago, RiyazGuerra.9203 said:

.

2. Add a new weapon sigil reminiscent of the GW1 Furious weapon upgrade mod

Sigil of Adrenaline: Attacks grant double Adrenaline.

.

.

3. Add a new effect, 'Angered' to healing, utility, elite skills which grant Adrenaline when activated. 

Angered effect: your Adrenaline does not decay for 10 seconds.

.

That would be more like a Relic effect and they have never had such effects related to resource mechanics to my knowledge, so I highly doubt that will happen.

22 minutes ago, RiyazGuerra.9203 said:

.

4. Add the functionality to Relic of the Warrior.

From

Relic of the Warrior: Weapon swap recharge time is reduced.

To

Relic of the Warrior: Adrenaline does not decay.  Weapon swap recharge time is reduced.

See above statement on such effects and resources.

Could this be a trait instead? Sure. That trait will become mandatory and kill build diversity unless it where on a minor trait on a traitline already being taken by most everyone, like making FH baseline and putting this into it's old spot.

Better to just normalize the game so that resources don't decay to 0 unless their related skill can be used without the resource for diminished effects.

[RiyazGuerra.9203]

9 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Could this be a trait instead? Sure. That trait will become mandatory and kill build diversity unless it where on a minor trait on a traitline already being taken by most everyone, like making FH baseline and putting this into it's old spot.

Better to just normalize the game so that resources don't decay to 0 unless their related skill can be used without the resource for diminished effects.

For the sake of build diversity, if we're going to put this on a minor, let's put it on several trail lines, I'd vote Discipline, Arms, and Strength.

On whether to normalizing the game so resources don't decay, I am fully on board with that...I just have a strong feeling the devs feel the decay is a profession defining opportinity cost to balance Adrenaline consuming skills.  That latter assumption is why I added the suggesstions I added.  In theory, several options would be implemented so as to give individual warrior a choice on how to cope with Rage decay so one single option doesn't become the meta.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

41 minutes ago, RiyazGuerra.9203 said:

For the sake of build diversity, if we're going to put this on a minor, let's put it on several trail lines, I'd vote Discipline, Arms, and Strength.

It would only be one, and we know it would be Discipline.

41 minutes ago, RiyazGuerra.9203 said:

On whether to normalizing the game so resources don't decay, I am fully on board with that...I just have a strong feeling the devs feel the decay is a profession defining opportinity cost to balance Adrenaline consuming skills.  That latter assumption is why I added the suggesstions I added.  In theory, several options would be implemented so as to give individual warrior a choice on how to cope with Rage decay so one single option doesn't become the meta.

I'm of the opinion that they would not need to be balanced after such a change. But if they proved to be too strong if usable at the beginning of the fight, then sure they would need to be balanced. Proof would be needed for that though.

[draxynnic.3719]

At the very least, they should re-institute the grace period before adrenaline starts to decay. It's so annoying when you kill one target, the game decides you're out of combat because you've killed everything that you were tagged with at the time, and you lose adrenaline before you can jump the next target even if they're only 600 units away and hit you with a ranged attack half a second after the game decided you were out of combat.

[DanAlcedo.3281]

4 hours ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

At the very least, they should re-institute the grace period before adrenaline starts to decay. It's so annoying when you kill one target, the game decides you're out of combat because you've killed everything that you were tagged with at the time, and you lose adrenaline before you can jump the next target even if they're only 600 units away and hit you with a ranged attack half a second after the game decided you were out of combat.

When you play Hammer, are full adrenalin and want to use F1 to jump to the next mob pack. Only for this not to be an option. 

HATE HATE HATE IT!!!!! 

[Hotride.2187]

On 1/11/2024 at 3:10 PM, Teknomancer.4895 said:

That's just buffing power-creep on top of existing power-creep though. I'd go the other way and apply the nerf bat, personally.

Ah yes, that is exactly what I feel when I queue conquest on my war, or roam in wvw. The power creep is just so powerful.

You do know war can run "to the limit", so it can engage with full adrenaline? There would be 0 difference in pve, where your "power creep" is a "big deal".

Go play some war, so you see how dumb, bad and boring it feels to not have your resource available at the start of each combat. Then explain how great it is and how it will combat the imaginary problem you have in your instanced pve.

+1 for the suggestion, dont really see what will be so different. You build for heavy adrenaline generation, the only difference will be, you can actually burst on engage. War builds are bunkers anyway, wont be much of a difference considering the length of each fight.

[Teknomancer.4895]

  

8 hours ago, Hotride.2187 said:

Go play some war, so you see how dumb, bad and boring it feels to not have your resource available at the start of each combat.

Much like Mesmers having no illusions available at the start of each combat? No, I wouldn't know anything at all about what that's like:

On 1/11/2024 at 8:10 AM, Teknomancer.4895 said:

I main Mesmer and yes I know full well that would erase the Virtuoso's dagger halo until the start of combat, which is how it should have always been.

Either you stopped reading after the bit you quoted, or you think I was making a different point to the one I intended. Either way, you're barking up the wrong tree.

Edited January 15 by Teknomancer.4895
weird crosspost, fixed