Future Expansion Content Should Include SPvP/WvW

[Biziut.3594]

Agree with the OP. It's been so long since we got remotly anything worth noticing in WvW and PvP. At this point I would be even satisfied if they would just made EotM match the normal maps, so peoples would have a reason to actually go and play there.

On the side note, gz to someone who managed to squeeze "I AM GATEKEEPED GIMME REWARDS" rant, into a kitten WvW thread, like... really?

On 1/15/2024 at 7:35 PM, Kera.3982 said:

 developers should focus on PvE content and make Fractal Rewards accessible for casual players.

 

[Cuks.8241]

18 hours ago, ShadowKatt.6740 said:

You ignored a lot of what else I said. PvP players care more about mechanics than anyone else in the game. They ARE the meta, the ones that are looking for even the slightest edge over everyone else, the ones constantly tweaking their build like a gear head fine tuning the lifters in their prize car. I'm not saying they don't care about the BLTC at all, just that for them it's significantly lower down, and that's not going to change. They have different priorities.

I'm not disagreeing. But the largest, most popular games ever are free to play and pvp. Fortnite, League, Counter Strike... Their revenue greatly depends on cosmetics.

Also gw2 is not a f2p game. Pvp players also buy the game and get very little from it. While pve players get continuous updates. So if the investment in pvp modes is low, they can't expect their return to be high.

About new maps. I don't think maps are really what's needed. It wouldn't hurt but it's not so dire. I think what would be needed is just continuous improvement of service. Bug fixes, UI, grouping, matchmaking improvements. A vision on meta and balance. Not perfect balance, just continuity, not sporadic changes all over the place.

But yeah it's a shame how pvp/wvw are treated. The game is advertised as a pvp game. "Compete in online pvp". You look how it's categorised on steam: "MMO", "Online-PVP", "Co-op". I'm not even sure it's  a problem of resources for Anet. I think it's more a problem that they don't know what to do. Or at least they found out years ago that whatever they do is not what players want and they just stopped. 

Also pvp and wvw are completely dislocated from the rest of the game. Which is on one hand good: separated pvp itemization, balance. But there is no interaction between pve and pvp sides of the game and players. I'm not saying pve should engage in pvp activities. But that pvp success would somehow reflect in all the game modes. 

[Cuks.8241]

edit: double post

Edited January 17 by Cuks.8241

[Gorani.7205]

6 hours ago, Cuks.8241 said:

Also pvp and wvw are completely dislocated from the rest of the game. Which is on one hand good: separated pvp itemization, balance. But there is no interaction between pve and pvp sides of the game and players. I'm not saying pve should engage in pvp activities. But that pvp success would somehow reflect in all the game modes. 

Are you aware we had that in the early years, when your server's success (in terms of total scoring points earned) gave you a bonus in PvE open world, when it came to XP earned, critical crafting success, higher base HP etc. ? (can't find it right now on the wiki, because that one's search feature takes forever to return results for me right now) It got removed when they gave us mega servers in PvE to create pretty much "a big EU and NA region" for PvE.

[Morvran.8265]

23 hours ago, Cuks.8241 said:

About new maps. I don't think maps are really what's needed. It wouldn't hurt but it's not so dire. I think what would be needed is just continuous improvement of service. Bug fixes, UI, grouping, matchmaking improvements. A vision on meta and balance. Not perfect balance, just continuity, not sporadic changes all over the place.

I have to disagree there. The things you mention aren't content, just minor tweaks. Nobody would care, whereas a new map would bring some attention to the gamemode and give PvP players simething new to do because things have gotten stale.

[Cuks.8241]

On 1/17/2024 at 4:09 PM, Gorani.7205 said:

Are you aware we had that in the early years, when your server's success (in terms of total scoring points earned) gave you a bonus in PvE open world, when it came to XP earned, critical crafting success, higher base HP etc. ? (can't find it right now on the wiki, because that one's search feature takes forever to return results for me right now) It got removed when they gave us mega servers in PvE to create pretty much "a big EU and NA region" for PvE.

I heard about it, didn't play at the time. Although another buff is really not exiting anymore and it just clutters the effect bar which is already completely bloated with useless effects. I played Korean mmorpgs in the past and there a winning guild/alliance got to control the whole castle or area for the week in the open world. It was also very profitable to hold a castle as the guild/alliance got revenue from it, usually through taxes. It can't be directly related to WvW but that is an example of a nice impact of a mass pvp mode in open world. Maybe an area in LA for the winning top guilds which they can benefit from in some way. Or a special longue they can access until the next reset.

11 hours ago, Morvran.8265 said:

I have to disagree there. The things you mention aren't content, just minor tweaks. Nobody would care, whereas a new map would bring some attention to the gamemode and give PvP players simething new to do because things have gotten stale.

I have nothing against new maps. At least 1 map per expansion would be appropriate. Like you mentioned it would definitely bring attention to the game mode together with new achievements. But from my experience competitive players will play the same good maps for years and years, sometimes they even persist through many iterations of the same game. Most mobas for example have very limited pool of maps if they even have more than 1. While new content mostly comes in form of new heroes, items and just general meta tweaks. 

What I would really like is a a new mode, possibly 10v10. Or just an upgrade of stronghold. Can be even a bit more casual like wow battlegrounds are compared to arena. I always liked battlegrounds, a more casual pvp mode when you don't feel like playing arena. Where your individual impact might not be as big as in arena but it's still small enough mode that it's not just zerging. I think it would also appeal to more players than the current spvp for exactly that reason. But yeah, wishful thinking.

[RisingDawn.5796]

PvP and WvW used to be selling points, they marketed them both during the first 3 years and PvP a little longer, due to the Esports push, which was always bound to fail from the start.

Consdering RvR is a niche game mode in any MMO, they won't pour too many resources into either modes I think, besides the balance patches, but even the Alliance/WR betas have been largely underwhelming too.

Edited January 19 by RisingDawn.5796

[Shiyo.3578]

On 1/17/2024 at 3:19 AM, Cuks.8241 said:

. I think it's more a problem that they don't know what to do.

Sums up the entire game. They still, 10 years later, don't know how to make a MMO.

[GBEW.5947]

On 1/15/2024 at 12:53 PM, Kera.3982 said:

I do. And have been PvPing way longer than you that's for sure.

New players are gatekeeped at Tier 3-4. Not sure if you've realized but its been going on for a long time. Nobody teaches new players how to do Fractals except some Guilds but most experienced players expect gold in return.

Nothing is keeping new players from completing this content but themselves. no one taught me how to do fractals i went and tried with 4 other people that weren't taught how to do fractals. You do realize you can figure things out on your own right.

Also how do you know that you have been playing the pvp game mode more and longer than that one guy in particular. You don't. 

[Obtena.7952]

On 1/18/2024 at 8:57 PM, Shiyo.3578 said:

Sums up the entire game. They still, 10 years later, don't know how to make a MMO.

That's absurd for the very reason that we are 11 years later and Anet is STILL making this MMO. 

[Shiyo.3578]

2 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:

That's absurd for the very reason that we are 11 years later and Anet is STILL making this MMO. 

A really bad one, still.

No goals or new challenges added since EOD.

[Gotejjeken.1267]

On 1/17/2024 at 10:09 AM, Gorani.7205 said:

Are you aware we had that in the early years, when your server's success (in terms of total scoring points earned) gave you a bonus in PvE open world, when it came to XP earned, critical crafting success, higher base HP etc. ? (can't find it right now on the wiki, because that one's search feature takes forever to return results for me right now) It got removed when they gave us mega servers in PvE to create pretty much "a big EU and NA region" for PvE.

Yeah, around 2015 that was IIRC when tournaments and such were a thing for WvW.  

Also, whoever says PvP/WvW players don't care about comestics--that's ludicrous.  Your WvW player definitely does as it uses PvE gear so they are going to go after legendaries.  SPvP does too, outside of the creatures that camp FFA arena 24/7--there's a reason visuals like gizmos and such sell on less than above board places.  

[Obtena.7952]

17 hours ago, Shiyo.3578 said:

A really bad one, still.

No goals or new challenges added since EOD.

Then I guess people like 'really bad' MMOs then ... because it's still here and people are still putting money into it so Anet can continue to develop it. 

The fact is that the things you say are nonsense. 100% certain that Anet knows how to make an MMO. I'm 100% certain that the people that continue to play and pay into the game still have goals and new challenges, even since EoD. You're just a bitter individual that craps on everything. 

Edited January 24 by Obtena.7952

[Shiyo.3578]

6 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Then I guess people like 'really bad' MMOs then ... because it's still here and people are still putting money into it so Anet can continue to develop it. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunk_cost

[Obtena.7952]

2 hours ago, Shiyo.3578 said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunk_cost

Sunk costs have NOTHING to do with the fact that GW2 is still a viable business for Anet and a compelling offering to customers willing to patronize Anet by playing it. You don't know what you are talking about, obvious by the fact that you are hiding behind wiki pages unrelated to the discussion instead of talking about the points being made to you. 

If the game wasn't good, people wouldn't play it. Bad MMO's don't stick around for 11 years and they ESPECIALLY don't get development funding. 

In otherwords, you might not like GW2 now ... OK ... but that doesn't mean it's really bad. It just means you can't be objective because of how you feel about it, which makes any critique of the game very low-value.  

Edited January 24 by Obtena.7952

[Ashen.2907]

On 1/16/2024 at 4:23 PM, Obtena.7952 said:

Right, so more maps isn't actually a comprehensive answer to WvW/PvP problems. 

IMO, the whole problem with WvW and PVP is that there isn't anything in the GS that is monetized that is useful in those game modes. SO mainly PVP/WvW players have much less reason to spend in the GS than PVE players do and therefore, those game modes will never get the attention for development that PVE does. 

 

I am not going to claim that Warclaw skins compare to the volume of skins available to purchase for other mounts but I do see a lot of them in WvW. Weapon and armor skins as well as minipets and finishers. I completely agree that it is probably a drop in the bucket compared to PvE purchases but WvWers do spend money in the gemstore as well.

[Obtena.7952]

4 minutes ago, Ashen.2907 said:

I am not going to claim that Warclaw skins compare to the volume of skins available to purchase for other mounts but I do see a lot of them in WvW. Weapon and armor skins as well as minipets and finishers. I completely agree that it is probably a drop in the bucket compared to PvE purchases but WvWers do spend money in the gemstore as well.

Sure, but there isn't a debate here. If MOST of the spending came from played minutes in WvW/PVP instead of PVE ... THAT'S where Anet would be spending it's resource to develop the game.

I wasn't claiming there aren't people spending from all game modes. I'm 100% certain people in PVP/WVW are buying skins in the GS. I'm saying Anet should give them more compelling items in the GS to spend money on. 

 

Edited January 24 by Obtena.7952

[Ashen.2907]

Just now, Obtena.7952 said:

Sure, but there isn't a debate here. If MOST of the spending came from played minutes in WvW/PVP instead of PVE ... THAT'S where Anet would be spending it's resource to develop the game. 

Understood. I was primarily responding to the statement that there wasn't anything in the gemstore useful to wvw(ers). I expect the vast majority of ANet's resources to be spent on PvE, as any company should prioritize according to expected return....but there are WvW useful items in the gemstore too.