Thieves message to Anet

[Morte de Angelis.7986]

11 hours ago, Blind.4162 said:

unlike thief that misses the backstab, has to wait 1 sec for "recharge"

You can blame the slow projectile on Shortbow for that because at max range you could fire a 2nd projectile before the 1st one landed and rather then speed up the projectile for the shortbow so you couldn't get two off they added a CD to all Stealth Attack skills.   At least thats what I remember their reasoning was

Edited January 31 by Morte de Angelis.7986

[cyberzombie.7348]

Hate to be pestimistic, ever since they made willbender I don't have any hope of Anet giving thief an off-hand sword. Plus the fact they gave guardian an assassin-esque spec with off-hand sword, despite thieves asking for years make me hate them out of principal.

[TheThief.8475]

On 1/31/2024 at 11:26 AM, Strider.7849 said:

Personally I'm hoping for greatsword on thief and they make it a ninja spec. I would become a thief main if that happened 🙂

It's my second most wanted weapon after off hand sword, but at this point they will probably give thief an off hand weapon next time since we had 2 main hands and 2 two handed weapons (not sword of course, one we don't like)

[TheThief.8475]

12 hours ago, cyberzombie.7348 said:

Hate to be pestimistic, ever since they made willbender I don't have any hope of Anet giving thief an off-hand sword. Plus the fact they gave guardian an assassin-esque spec with off-hand sword, despite thieves asking for years make me hate them out of principal.

I think a lot of thieves do hate them for this. I mean Cantha was the region of Shiro Tagachi, an assassin who wielded dual sword, and assassins are the origins of gw2 thief, even tho they never felt as good to play 

[draxynnic.3719]

On 2/1/2024 at 7:46 AM, Morte de Angelis.7986 said:

You can blame the slow projectile on Shortbow for that because at max range you could fire a 2nd projectile before the 1st one landed and rather then speed up the projectile for the shortbow so you couldn't get two off they added a CD to all Stealth Attack skills.   At least thats what I remember their reasoning was

I think it was more that they wanted stealth attacks to have a bit more counterplay: if you stealth and then the enemy uses a skill that blocks a single attack, you can't deal with that by attacking into the block and then repeating the stealth attack right away. Previously, the reward for successfully riposting a stealthed thief was virtually nil because the thief would just backstab you anyway half a second later.

[BlindBardian.5781]

Let's phrase this into some high level feedback instead of another loaded thread:

To the Esteemed Developers at ArenaNet,

As dedicated members of the Thief community, we find ourselves reflecting on the journey since the announcement of Heart of Thorns in 2015. Over the years, we've embraced a variety of weapons – staffs, ranged weaponry, and even magical ranged options. Yet, one significant desire remains unmet: the inclusion of an off-hand sword or weapon.

In the spirit of our shared passion for the Thief class, we pose a collective question to you: "What draws players to choose Thief as their class?" By delving into the essence of this choice, we believe you may uncover valuable insights to create content that resonates deeply with those of us who have been fervent Thief enthusiasts for more than a decade.

Despite the passage of 12 years, our longing for an off-hand sword persists. We implore you to consider our collective voice and insights as you craft the future of our beloved Thief profession. Your understanding and response would mean a great deal to the Thief community.

Edited February 3 by BlindBardian.5781

[Lithril Ashwalker.6230]

13 hours ago, BlindBardian.5781 said:

Let's phrase this into some high level feedback instead of another loaded thread:

To the Esteemed Developers at ArenaNet,

As dedicated members of the Thief community, we find ourselves reflecting on the journey since the announcement of Heart of Thorns in 2015. Over the years, we've embraced a variety of weapons – staffs, ranged weaponry, and even magical ranged options. Yet, one significant desire remains unmet: the inclusion of an off-hand sword or weapon.

In the spirit of our shared passion for the Thief class, we pose a collective question to you: "What draws players to choose Thief as their class?" By delving into the essence of this choice, we believe you may uncover valuable insights to create content that resonates deeply with those of us who have been fervent Thief enthusiasts for more than a decade.

Despite the passage of 12 years, our longing for an off-hand sword persists. We implore you to consider our collective voice and insights as you craft the future of our beloved Thief profession. Your understanding and response would mean a great deal to the Thief community.

Choosing to main a thief in Guild Wars 2, despite the class being frequently nerfed, reflects the player's resilience, dedication, and tolerance. It suggests that the person behind the thief character is someone who perseveres through challenges and remains committed to their chosen path, even when facing setbacks or changes in the game dynamics. It highlights the player's determination and ability to excel with a class that may be considered underpowered, showcasing a unique and resilient gaming personality.

Players who exclusively play other classes in Guild Wars 2 and call for nerfs on thieves might be seen as giving up too easily. It reflects a tendency to seek an easier path rather than persevering through challenges. Unlike those who main thieves, these players may display a preference for simplicity and avoidance of difficulties, showcasing a different gaming personality with less tolerance for overcoming obstacles.

Edited February 3 by Lithril Ashwalker.6230

[Asra.8746]

On 1/31/2024 at 5:46 AM, Blind.4162 said:

Basically dedicated to stealth? Shadow Arts was destroyed by ANet with the infamous words from Josh Davis: stealth is a source of frustration in pvp and wvw. But this ok

and this is encouraged

and this needs more buffs

I also noticed that when mesmer is stealthed they can keep on using skills without any cool downs when they miss unlike thief that misses the backstab, has to wait 1 sec for "recharge". Not to mention that a thief needs to use initiative to maintain any extended stealth. Which is forever being increased. So yea totally fair and unbias because stealth and power on a thief is totally the only sources of frustration.

You see: all of those are fine because those specs don't have a dedicated traitline for stealth and you can "see and react" to all of them and cause they can't "instantly" and "effortlessly" reset a fight while "spamming stealth" and "insane mobility" - this isn't what I think...this is what the balance team has preached over the course of over a decade (ie. this is what the balance team thinks.).

Meanwhile, none of them actually plays thief - funny how that works. Thief is so busted and overpowered 24/7/365 that none of them plays it.

[Morte de Angelis.7986]

On 2/3/2024 at 2:47 AM, draxynnic.3719 said:

I think it was more that they wanted stealth attacks to have a bit more counterplay: if you stealth and then the enemy uses a skill that blocks a single attack, you can't deal with that by attacking into the block and then repeating the stealth attack right away. 

Blocking a stealth attack still applied reveal which is what made Basilisk Venom really strong when it gave two stacks,, you could make the argument for evasion based mitigation (Dodge, Distort) as the attack never actually landed.  I just remember hearing about the shortbow attack at the time.  Though now they're splitting skills based on game made would be nice to remove the CD in PvE at least 😞

Edited February 6 by Morte de Angelis.7986

[reddie.5861]

On 1/20/2024 at 5:48 PM, TheThief.8475 said:

It was 2015 when HoT was annouced,

I was young, back then,

and since,

i'm waiting for off hand sword.

I got a stick;

I got a pewpew ranged weapon;

I got ranged magic weapon;

I will get a ranged phisical weapon;

WHEN WILLL I GET MY OFF HAND SWORD?!

 

I will leave this question for you Anet: "Why do people pick Thief as their class?" 

Maybe if you answer this simple question you will be able to craft something we love (after 12 years of not delivering anything I whished for as a Thief/Rogue enjoyer)

why? because back in the day pre expansions thief was fast had mobility and could deal a MASSIVE single dmg spike.

nowadays i dunno thief doesnt have the mobility anymore as all classes port like fools
thief has been nerfed million times on dmg and its not even close to massive anymore on a single target with a spike.

thief is kind of a handicapted class with stealth. its no good at anything vs a equal skilled player.

 

 

lets not mention every thief build has
trickery and kitten

OR

trickery and CS

then ur limited to a elite so neat.
 

[Meridian.9103]

On 1/23/2024 at 11:46 AM, draxynnic.3719 said:

I suspect that the devs might be a little shy about going to the effort of making three dual skills that are DOA. "Not everything needs to be good in all modes" only goes so far - there's not much justification in making an offhand that obviously only works with one or two mainhands when they could do something that works for all.

 

What skills are DOA obviously depends on the skills themselves, and not the weapon type. People are ultimately going to play what is good and fun.

And besides, the prospect of wielding an offhand sword with any mainhand sparks way more excitement for me as a rogue archetype player than e.g. throwing axes or pew pewing with a rifle.

[draxynnic.3719]

15 hours ago, Meridian.9103 said:

 

What skills are DOA obviously depends on the skills themselves, and not the weapon type. People are ultimately going to play what is good and fun.

And besides, the prospect of wielding an offhand sword with any mainhand sparks way more excitement for me as a rogue archetype player than e.g. throwing axes or pew pewing with a rifle.

The skills would need to still be useful when paired with a ranged weapon in the main hand. That's the bottom line.

Compromise: Skill 4 is a block/parry effect (useful at any range). Skill 5 is a gap opener (useful for kiting with a ranged build, a melee build might follow up with sword 2 or dagger 2 to close the gap again once they're ready to do so).

Comes with a skin that's essentially a shortsword-sized main gauche or parrying dagger, so that as well as covering dual sword fantasies, it can also cover sword/dagger or even dagger/dagger fantasies where the offhand isn't held in reverse grip.

[TheThief.8475]

23 hours ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

The skills would need to still be useful when paired with a ranged weapon in the main hand. That's the bottom line.

Compromise: Skill 4 is a block/parry effect (useful at any range). Skill 5 is a gap opener (useful for kiting with a ranged build, a melee build might follow up with sword 2 or dagger 2 to close the gap again once they're ready to do so).

Comes with a skin that's essentially a shortsword-sized main gauche or parrying dagger, so that as well as covering dual sword fantasies, it can also cover sword/dagger or even dagger/dagger fantasies where the offhand isn't held in reverse grip.

Other professions have loads of off hand weapons that are not good with other main hand weapons

They don't need to make the new off hand good for all main hands, a good dual wield skill would be enough. As thieves we have a lot of movent skills, so I don't see a problem in having to play a mixed melee/ranged build.

As long as they manage to provide stealth access or alternatives (say block with sword skill 4 or 5) the weapon would be very flexible, and that's more than enough

They have designers that can make it work with some brain and maybe playing thief a little bit more xD

[Bunny.9834]

watching the LB podcast with the devs... I'm confused how they say "player feedback" is the most important yet they kept going on this path of doing whatever they want. 

None of them def plays the thief. they don't know what to do with it. 

Everybody has been asking for this, including one of the most prominent GW2 player like WP, yet they REFUSED to just give thief the freaking OH sword. 

[Doggie.3184]

One reason I want Dual Axe or a new off-hand in general is I'm just tired of /Pistol, it's broken and only good for breakbars, which Staff can handle now, and Dagger/Pistol in PvP only (you'd never use it in PvE). Black Powder is useless majority of time due to the bug where ally fields delete it from comboing with Bounding Dodge: Something that desperately needs fixed. If we're never getting a new off-hand they could at least make both off-hand pistol's skills useful for all weapons. Or fix the combo finisher bug so at least it's useful on Daredevil.

Not sure how much people will be using Dancing Dagger on Axe/Dagger either. 

We also have no offhands that aren't Stealth Focused for Non-Stealth builds. For hating stealth so much we get little options to not use it.

 

[draxynnic.3719]

17 hours ago, TheThief.8475 said:

Other professions have loads of off hand weapons that are not good with other main hand weapons

They don't need to make the new off hand good for all main hands, a good dual wield skill would be enough. As thieves we have a lot of movent skills, so I don't see a problem in having to play a mixed melee/ranged build.

As long as they manage to provide stealth access or alternatives (say block with sword skill 4 or 5) the weapon would be very flexible, and that's more than enough

They have designers that can make it work with some brain and maybe playing thief a little bit more xD

Other professions don't have dual attacks, so it's fine if some mainhand/offhand pairs are 'wrong choices'. For thief, though, they don't want to make dual skills that will never be used, nor do they want to make a set where the offhand is only ever going to be used for the dual skill. Any offhand, especially in an environment where thief still only has three or four offhands, needs to have 4 and 5 skills that are useful regardless of what the mainhand is.

[TheThief.8475]

8 hours ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

Other professions don't have dual attacks, so it's fine if some mainhand/offhand pairs are 'wrong choices'. For thief, though, they don't want to make dual skills that will never be used, nor do they want to make a set where the offhand is only ever going to be used for the dual skill. Any offhand, especially in an environment where thief still only has three or four offhands, needs to have 4 and 5 skills that are useful regardless of what the mainhand is.

I don't think this is impossible to achieve this. They have experienced designers in the team, if they want to make it that can

[draxynnic.3719]

18 hours ago, TheThief.8475 said:

I don't think this is impossible to achieve this. They have experienced designers in the team, if they want to make it that can

And I gave a couple of examples of skills that would work. The key point, though, is that the 4 and 5 skills can't be overly melee-oriented.