CM in the wizard's special tab

[Ashen.2907]

8 hours ago, Graymatter.4723 said:

It's not that simple. There is a range of skills levels and experience across the player base. Typically, with new instanced content, the more experienced players will attempt that content first. Gradually, the people attempting the content over time will shift towards the less experienced and less knowledgeable players. It's easy for players who have completed more difficult content to say "form your own group" but the player base that they are pulling from is far less experienced than the players that they grouped together with when they first did the content. Lets take AH CM, as an example. I completed that a long time back and can join any AH CM run that I would like. A player who wants to complete a AH CM run now will have a much harder time creating their own group and completing it than what I had when I first completed AH CM.

In that respect, gatekeeping becomes a way that more experienced players block newer players from joining their groups. I am not saying that people shouldn't want an easy run, etc. I am also not saying that people shouldn't gatekeep the groups that they create. I am just saying that people "can form groups" doesn't mean that there is no gatekeeping. Gatekeeping simply means "to control or limit access to something". In this case, it's certainly limiting access to groups.

Not having someone in your group when that person admits that your group is a minority portion of what is available is not gatekeeping the content. If it were then one could argue that I am gatekeeping WvW by only taking guild members in my five man roaming party.

[Akronox.8251]

I don't understand the logic here, you can't complain about a content being hard to get into and also be against an action incentivizing people to get into said content in the same sentence.
Most likely, it will motivate more people who were maybe hesitating to try it out therefore offering more opportunities to get into the content. If everyone acts like you, there is no solution to this issue. You don't lose anything by not doing an optional objective either.
Regarding the gatekeeping, there are a lot of communities offering raid/strikes trainings for free, I've also seen quite a lot of experienced players spontaneously joining trainings advertized on the LFG to help out (to the point where it happened you had more experienced players joining than trainees in some cases), in my community, someone made an event where a few experienced players would do Minister Li over and over during a couple hours to try to get as many people their turtle.

Right now, you just sound like the "We've tried nothing and we're already out of ideas" memes.

I don't see no PvP/WvW players complaining about this although there wasn't a single special objective related to PvP or WvW since the Wizard's Vault released.

[Machineuzi.5604]

love the people going through each comment to confused react like its their job. 

guys its just 1 objective that you can skip, and its a good thing to use the game's incentive system to encourage people to do content - especially if the population of players doing that content is still growing

[jozze.9532]

13 hours ago, Graymatter.4723 said:

I am happy for more people to try out CM's, but do you realize what these "easier to find" groups are going to look like? A lot of players battle with regular strikes. I don't even go to OLC regulars anymore because 1/2 are of the pugs are wipe fests. Now stick a CM strike into the wizard's vault and see what happens to LFG.

Then it is time for people to organise. Start joining communities in an MMO and interact with the playerbase.

Get the additional information the game doesn't teach you.

Find those groups that can help you complete the content instead of struggling with the LFG system, that was already way behind industry standards when it released.

These things should spawn communities and bring the overall community together to solve struggles.

[NovaanVerdiano.6174]

I hope they do with Febe CM and then go even further, putting in some EoD Strikes and even raids in there as optional objectives.

These additions combined with rush weeks have been nothing but major boons for the content they were aimed at.

[DanAlcedo.3281]

5 hours ago, MercurialKuroSludge.8974 said:

The funny thing is, non-SoTO T3s can sometimes not count for that task, at least the 5 I did this week for Straits of Devastation didnt, yet last weeks was fine.

Also, flavor of preferred popcorn, anyone?

Spicy popcorn. 😋

[Machineuzi.5604]

1 minute ago, jozze.9532 said:

Then it is time for people to organise. Start joining communities in an MMO and interact with the playerbase.

Get the additional information the game doesn't teach you.

Find those groups that can help you complete the content instead of struggling with the LFG system, that was already way behind industry standards when it released.

These things should spawn communities and bring the overall community together to solve struggles.

yeah like idk why everything has to be so sterile these days. let people try and fail and do things, and learn to organize etc.

[maxwelgm.4315]

The unfortunate part of OP's post is the misconception that CMs give higher rewards. I assure you playing metas and at most fractals is the single most rewarding activity in this game, you're actively hurting your bottom line by merely attempting a raid or strike CM clear due to all the downtime, scheduling and potential wipes involved. If anything I'd rather get 10 AA every single time we completed a CM encounter just because.

[Astralporing.1957]

14 hours ago, Kiki.9450 said:

I imagine it's a bit of an experiment. If they offer AA as a reward for doing the CM, how many more players will they see doing the CM for that AA? What about after the AA is claimed/no longer available? If the numbers look good to them, maybe Anet can justify more work on harder content again.

They keep trying to do stuff like that for years, and so far it never worked the way they wanted. It would be a weird kind of experiment doing it once again, even though they haven't really changed anything that might make the result any different than before.

My prediction is that the results will be the same as always - they will be able to catch only those players that would have eventually tried out CMs anyway, but at the same time make some people that will try this out before they were prepared enough to give up on attempting it ever again. And they will also make some of the Raid/CM community even more jaded against pugs and new players in their squads.

Edited January 24 by Astralporing.1957

[jozze.9532]

18 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

They keep trying to do stuff like that for years, and so far it never worked the way they wanted. It would be a weird kind of experiment doing it once again, even though they haven't really changed anything that might make the result any different than before.

My prediction is that the results will be the same as always - they will be able to catch only those players that would have eventually tried out CMs anyway, but at the same time make some people that will try this out before they were prepared enough to give up on attempting it ever again. And they will also make some of the Raid/CM community even more jaded against pugs and new players in their squads.

Well yeah, that is exactly what the goal is. To get those players to try the content that would maybe eventually do the content. Duh.

What they do with this is give incentives to do it so bring them there faster. You want to build a bigger community in multiple ways: by activating those people that are currently not trying aout the content or by slowly bringing people to that point of the previous group by trying to bridge the gap (pretty much what the goal of strikes and easy strike CMs is)

The same way i can argue that people who will move away from the content because of the experience created by that incentive would have never joined that content regularly anyways.

[Astralporing.1957]

2 minutes ago, jozze.9532 said:

Well yeah, that is exactly what the goal is. To get those players to try the content that would maybe eventually do the content. Duh.

What they do with this is give incentives to do it so bring them there faster. You want to build a bigger community in multiple ways: by activating those people that are currently not trying aout the content or by slowly bringing people to that point of the previous group by trying to bridge the gap (pretty much what the goal of strikes and easy strike CMs is)

The same way i can argue that people who will move away from the content because of the experience created by that incentive would have never joined that content regularly anyways.

That's the issue - someone that would have moved into that type of content if left to their own pace, when pushed into it at accelerated schedule might bounce back instead. The end result is that they will just lose out on some edge cases without gaining anything in return.

Not to mention the best environment for adjusting to high end content is when the ratio of veteran to inexperienced players in the squad is highest (preferably with only one inexperienced player with the rest being veterans). The less veterans and more inexperienced players in the squad, the worse the feeling for most players involved. And guess what happens in an event like that? Yep, the ratios get skewed towards inexperienced - with predictable results.

It works on some encounters, where even a few veterans can easily hard carry the rest, but CO CM is not like this. It's definitely not the encounter i'd use to encourage new players to like high-end content. Not to mention it is also extremely boring, which is hardly helpful for the result Anet might want to achieve. Well, unless their goal is to discourage players, of course.

[Alethia.3597]

Most of the new folks today I met who are listening to people in training are doing ok.  I really hope they had fun and will come back again.

I've taken 5 groups through today and all got kills after some pulls. Various levels of experience and only had one person that I had to say they need to get some better gear and build then come back another day with us.

A bunch of people got their first CM kill and for some it was a first strike altogether.

[Nasbit.3240]

After this post, I hope HTCM will be added to special tab in the future.

[vares.8457]

2 hours ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

It works on some encounters, where even a few veterans can easily hard carry the rest, but CO CM is not like this.

Nonsense. CO CM is just like that, it is the easiest strike CM.  I have done several CO CM runs with the majority of the squad new or inexperienced players. All have been successful after a few tries. The mechanics are quite easy. It may take some tries to learn them but that should be normal for a challenge mode. 

Edited January 24 by vares.8457

[BlueSkies.9378]

noooooo why does the game reward players for doing content 🥺 (/s)

[Cyninja.2954]

5 hours ago, Alethia.3597 said:

Most of the new folks today I met who are listening to people in training are doing ok.  I really hope they had fun and will come back again.

I've taken 5 groups through today and all got kills after some pulls. Various levels of experience and only had one person that I had to say they need to get some better gear and build then come back another day with us.

A bunch of people got their first CM kill and for some it was a first strike altogether.

Nice work!

You are touching on one of the issues though: players that "listen".

This game has a huge inexperienced/weak veteran player base that is completely shut off in regards to advice or listening.

For many it seems to be a mental barrier by now and budging even an inch would mean accepting that they've been incompetent/incorrect in regards to how this game works for years.

There is a common meme by now about AP in that regard:

any player with over 40k AP is either terrible or decent/good, because by the time you reach that amount of game time (usually 10k hours and more), you've either learned to be effective or not (and by effective I mean bring the correct build to the correct content. Open world remains a free for all mostly).

If not, that player has essentially choosen to never improve or learn, which says everything when considering that amount of time spent on anything.

Edited January 24 by Cyninja.2954

[Jedrik.3109]

Wow, not locked yet?!

I'm almost proud of you guys. 

[Astralporing.1957]

5 hours ago, vares.8457 said:

Nonsense. CO CM is just like that, it is the easiest strike CM.  I have done several CO CM runs with the majority of the squad new or inexperienced players. All have been successful after a few tries. The mechanics are quite easy. It may take some tries to learn them but that should be normal for a challenge mode. 

Again, you make it abundantly clear you are playing with completely different people than i do.

Out of cutiosity, though: were those new/inexperienced players organized (guildies, training guild etc) or pugs?

[vares.8457]

6 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Again, you make it abundantly clear you are playing with completely different people than i do.

Doesn’t change the fact that what you wrote is nonsense, as usual. 

7 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Out of cutiosity, though: were those new/inexperienced players organized (guildies, training guild etc) or pugs?

Some were guildies, some were pugs. 

[Sirius.4510]

21 hours ago, Qys.5937 said:

I assume you aren't talking about Caudecus Manor? Or are you? 

Since you didn't get an answer - CM in this case refers to Challenge Mote, which is the thing you activate to get harder versions of raids, fractals, or strikes (the Cosmic Observatory strike in this case). Sharing the abbreviation of a dungeon is unfortunate, but here we are...

(if the question was a joke, never mind, carry on 🙂 )

[Gimli.9461]

My 2c:

1. It'd be much easier I think for people to give this CM or any group content a shot if Anet added queueing system like FF14 (group maker). It's hard to find a group, it'd be nice to be able to queue for a group. Imho a row of checkboxes where you'd check 'healer', 'alac', 'quickness' would suffice => then you could auto group people once you got 2 healer check boxes and 2 alac and 2 quickness.

Wouldn't even matter if most groups fail, I just don't wanna sit around there waiting for something to show up in lfg 🤷‍♀️ And no I don't want to start one of my own, a tag carries too many expectations.

 

2. Another thing I find that makes CM more of a 'burden' is => it seems some classes will have SUCH an easier time + carry potential compared to others, it's not even funny. So you kinda want to keep a scourge or a condi virtuoso in your pocket, and I'm just not in that place anymore where I have all 9 classes kitted out with latest builds and ready to go, keeping up with each balance patch.

So yeah this does feel a bit like much for a wizard's vault! I mean I don't have to do it, that's true, so I"ll just go with that. 😀 But yeah trying it and failing makes me sad. Esp with playing a melee aheal and having to run in and out in and out so much bahahah. Stressful.

[Qys.5937]

13 hours ago, Sirius.4510 said:

Since you didn't get an answer - CM in this case refers to Challenge Mote, which is the thing you activate to get harder versions of raids, fractals, or strikes (the Cosmic Observatory strike in this case). Sharing the abbreviation of a dungeon is unfortunate, but here we are...

(if the question was a joke, never mind, carry on 🙂 )

I have not done any raids, fractals or strikes so Caudecus Manor was the only CM I knew of. But since op was saying how hard it was I assumed they meant something else. 

[DanAlcedo.3281]

15 hours ago, Jedrik.3109 said:

Wow, not locked yet?!

I'm almost proud of you guys. 

There is a surprising lack of backlash. 

The toxic casuals are currently in other threads. 

[IAmNotMatthew.1058]

17 hours ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Again, you make it abundantly clear you are playing with completely different people than i do.

Out of cutiosity, though: were those new/inexperienced players organized (guildies, training guild etc) or pugs?

We did CO CM yesterday, we had 5 people with experience from guild and 5 people joined in as pugs, 4 of them were new to the CM, maybe all 5. Here's a log if you're interested.

CO CM is the current easiest Strike with only 2 new a bit dangerous attacks(numbers and the Scooby Doo circles) and a damage reduction mechanic that takes about 10 seconds to work out. From then on it's dealing enough damage, which is not hard and not falling asleep. Not falling asleep is still among the hardest parts of that Strike, even on CM. 

[BatelGeuce.3591]

19 hours ago, Jedrik.3109 said:

Wow, not locked yet?!

I'm almost proud of you guys. 

I feel like this thread has run its course man ...

1 hour ago, IAmNotMatthew.1058 said:

We did CO CM yesterday, we had 5 people with experience from guild and 5 people joined in as pugs, 4 of them were new to the CM, maybe all 5. Here's a log if you're interested.

CO CM is the current easiest Strike with only 2 new a bit dangerous attacks(numbers and the Scooby Doo circles) and a damage reduction mechanic that takes about 10 seconds to work out. From then on it's dealing enough damage, which is not hard and not falling asleep. Not falling asleep is still among the hardest parts of that Strike, even on CM. 

Can confirm, I was the scourge.