Macro Policy Clarifications

[Enko.6123]

I am posting these questions to the forums as requested by a response from a support ticket.

The following examples are some use cases that I would like some clarification on.

Would a macro that follows these actions to extract a single item be allowed or is this considered multiple actions?
1. move mouse to item
2. hold left mouse button down
3. drag item to extract window
4. release left mouse button
5. move mouse to extract button
6. click extract button.

I have an extract macro that when I hit a button, it extracts whatever item my mouse is hovering over using the above sequence. Do these need to be separated into separate key presses to be compliant with your macro policy? Am I allowed to chain that process to extract multiple items or does it need to be a separate key for each item?

Is this considered exploitive to extract multiple items quickly as there is no Extract All option on the extractor?

edit: Besides the question of what is considered an action, is using the extractor on items to make extra profit on an item considered exploiting a game mechanic? This is being done since the masterwork item can be then sold or salvaged and the upgrade can then also be sold or salvaged. 

Another example would be a macro used to salvage exotics. Since there is no Salvage All function for exotics like there is for rares, the sequence would look like this:
1. Move mouse to silver fed salvage o matic
2. Double click  silver fed
3. Move mouse to item
4. Click item
5. Move mouse to confirm button
6. Click confirm button.

I have a salvage macro that when I hit a button, it salvages whatever item my mouse is hovering over using the above sequence. Do these need to be separated into separate key presses to be compliant with your macro policy? Am I allowed to chain that process to salvage multiple items or does it need to be a separate key for each item? Is this considered exploitive to salvage multiple exotics quickly as there is no Salvage All Exotics option on the salvage o matics?

The main question at hand is what's considered an "action" by the macro policy posted here: https://help.guildwars2.com/hc/en-us/articles/360013762153-Policy-Macros-and-Macro-Use. Are mouse movements considered an action or is the action that is occurring that an exotic was salvaged?

This has been a question running among the community for a while now which has led to what is an action being considered a grey area. 
As most players will probably agree, we are trying to avoid doing things that will result in actions against our accounts. 

Edited February 23 by Enko.6123
added question if using the extractor to make profit is considered exploiting a game mechanic

[Vavume.8065]

I assume you got banned for using macro's, I think that is your answer right there. 

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

Using the Extractor (to make profit) is fine.

Using macros you are unsure about is risky.  I would not risk my account if I were not assured it was non-actionable by ArenaNet.

[Linken.6345]

I'd say both those are 1 key press for multiple actions so yea not allowed.

Only marco that is allowed is instrument ones that I am aware of.

[Enko.6123]

18 minutes ago, Vavume.8065 said:

I assume you got banned for using macro's, I think that is your answer right there. 

Macros are allowed. The problem is that there's a grey area on what they consider an action. These questions were posted to the forums as requested in a response to my ticket.

Things that are automated or exploit a game mechanic is what they are banning for. If they consider extracting items for profit as exploiting a game mechanic, then so be it. It wasn't made clear what they considered exploiting a game mechanic in the response.

The reason why the use cases I posted were posted is because if each of those steps is to be considered a separate action, then I can separate out those functions into separate keypresses just fine. If its considered that the action is extracting a single item or salvaging a single item, then a keypress to do that is fine. It's not made clear what is ok or not. If each step is to be considered a separate action, then there's some Blishhud modules that people need to be warned to not use as some of those follow the exact same processes.

It would be nice if they would just add an Extract All function to the Extractor like they added the Salvage All functions to the salvage kits. A Salvage All Exotics function would also be nice.

22 minutes ago, Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:

Using the Extractor (to make profit) is fine.

Using macros you are unsure about is risky.  I would not risk my account if I were not assured it was non-actionable by ArenaNet.

My support ticket specifically warned about macros with the intent for automation / exploiting a game mechanic. If the issue was just macros being used for automation, then the comment about exploiting a game mechanic wouldn't have needed to be mentioned. So something in the use cases I sent to Anet is considered exploiting a game mechanic (or was just included as part of a normal response).

 

8 minutes ago, Linken.6345 said:

I'd say both those are 1 key press for multiple actions so yea not allowed.

Only marco that is allowed is instrument ones that I am aware of.

Again, that's the question being asked. Are those considered multiple actions? Is it considered an action just went there's a game state change ie an item was extracted or is it just the act of moving your mouse?

As for what macros are allowed, their general policy is "Attended macro use is permitted as long as it is not exploitative, and as long as it does not provide the user with an unfair advantage over other players. Unattended macro use is prohibited under any circumstances." from Policy: Macros and Macro Use – Guild Wars 2 Support

Addons like Blishhud have a lot of different macros build into their modules so if its a case that things like moving your mouse and clicking your mouse are all considered separate actions, then some of the Blishhud modules either need to not be used or how they are used needs to be modified to require multiple keypresses. 

[Vavume.8065]

16 minutes ago, Enko.6123 said:

Macros are allowed.

Stop playing dumb, the type of macro's you are using could prob get you a job with Elon Musk.

[DanAlcedo.3281]

It's a gray area when it comes to stuff like this:

Using a programmable mouse to put headbutt - > outrage on one button with a short delay between the Skills so it works properly. 

I do this to make the dps rotation for power berserker easier. 

Again, this is already not really OK. 

What you are doing is Ban worthy. 

Edited February 23 by DanAlcedo.3281

[Linken.6345]

4 minutes ago, DanAlcedo.3281 said:

It's a gray area when it comes to stuff like this:

Using a programmable mouse to put headbutt - > outrage on one button with a short delay between the Skills so it works properly. 

I do this to make the dps rotation for power berserker easier. 

Again, this is already not really OK. 

What you are doing is Ban worthy. 

What you are doing are aswell.

[DanAlcedo.3281]

3 minutes ago, Linken.6345 said:

What you are doing are aswell.

Players have being using these simple QoL improvements for many years now with nothing happening because it is such a minor thing, it doesn't really matter. 

Even auto clicker was a huge thing that everyone used before the open all option got added to bags. 

I even used it now, if I want to get all the item from the material storage out. To see what to sell. Imagine clicking like 300 times. 

These are minor QoL improvements. 

Not a full blown macro like OP does. 

[Linken.6345]

8 minutes ago, DanAlcedo.3281 said:

Players have being using these simple QoL improvements for many years now with nothing happening because it is such a minor thing, it doesn't really matter. 

Even auto clicker was a huge thing that everyone used before the open all option got added to bags. 

I even used it now, if I want to get all the item from the material storage out. To see what to sell. Imagine clicking like 300 times. 

These are minor QoL improvements. 

Not a full blown macro like OP does. 

It is still 2 actions by 1 keypress that give you an advantage over a person that have to press 2 key presses in sequence.

And what I used to do was bind left mouse click to the mouse scroll wheel and scroll away on the identified gear stacls.

 

[DanAlcedo.3281]

3 minutes ago, Linken.6345 said:

It is still 2 actions by 1 keypress that give you an advantage over a person that have to press 2 key presses in sequence.

And what I used to do was bind left mouse click to the mouse scroll wheel and scroll away on the identified gear stacls.

 

The point is that the TOS and Laws in general (should) work like fishing nets. 

You want to get the big fish while letting the tiny ones swim through to holes. 

If you start catching all the tiny fish too, we would have a massive problem on our hand. 

Anet would need to ban probably over 25% of their playerbase if they started to actually enforce the TOS. 

It's like me walking over the street while the light is red but there are no cars around. 

Even if a police man saw me, clearly breaking the law, do you think he would bother with it?

On personal experience, they never did. As to many people do it each day. 

 

[Sobx.1758]

52 minutes ago, DanAlcedo.3281 said:

Players have being using these simple QoL improvements for many years now with nothing happening because it is such a minor thing, it doesn't really matter. 

Even auto clicker was a huge thing that everyone used before the open all option got added to bags. 

I even used it now, if I want to get all the item from the material storage out. To see what to sell. Imagine clicking like 300 times. 

These are minor QoL improvements. 

Not a full blown macro like OP does. 

Chaining skills isn't really "qol improvement", it improves your performance. The macros policy lists it as not allowed: You cannot use macros to create skill chains in any competitive environment, including PvP, WvW, open world activities, races, etc.  

Well, at least in competitive modes. 

Edited February 23 by Sobx.1758

[DanAlcedo.3281]

11 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Chaining skills isn't really "qol improvement", it improves your performance. The macros policy lists it as not allowed: You cannot use macros to create skill chains in any competitive environment, including PvP, WvW, open world activities, races, etc.  

Well, at least in competitive modes. 

With how many people do that, I really want to see what happens when they enforce it. 

Snapping thousands of players out of existence.😆 Especially these who care enough to do something like that. The core audience. 

But I don't think they even have the tech for it, given how many necros use 10+ skill on one button in Wvw. Having their entire bomb on it. 

Some having that going on for like 8 years now. 

Edited February 23 by DanAlcedo.3281

[Parasite.5389]

3 hours ago, DanAlcedo.3281 said:

With how many people do that, I really want to see what happens when they enforce it. 

"Everyone else was doing it" is generally a bad legal argument

[kharmin.7683]

OP if you really want clarification on the macro policy, then you will need to have a discussion with Anet.  No one here can give you an official answer unless they are marked as an Anet employee.

[Astralporing.1957]

3 minutes ago, kharmin.7683 said:

OP if you really want clarification on the macro policy, then you will need to have a discussion with Anet.  No one here can give you an official answer unless they are marked as an Anet employee.

This. An unoficial response from me to @Enko.6123 however is: that does not look like an allowed use. Does not mean you will certainly get banned for using this, but for all we know you might. Do it at your own risk, knowing full well it might become an issue.

Edited February 23 by Astralporing.1957

[Sobx.1758]

9 hours ago, DanAlcedo.3281 said:

With how many people do that, I really want to see what happens when they enforce it. 

Snapping thousands of players out of existence.😆 Especially these who care enough to do something like that. The core audience. 

But I don't think they even have the tech for it, given how many necros use 10+ skill on one button in Wvw. Having their entire bomb on it. 

Some having that going on for like 8 years now. 

Doesn't matter how many people are stealing, it's still against the law. The question wasn't about "how many get away with breaking rules", it was "is it against the rules". And it is.
Calling chaining your skills with macros a "QoL" feature is also some nice cope 😉 

Edited February 23 by Sobx.1758

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

9 hours ago, DanAlcedo.3281 said:

With how many people do that, I really want to see what happens when they enforce it. 

Snapping thousands of players out of existence.😆 Especially these who care enough to do something like that. The core audience. 

But I don't think they even have the tech for it, given how many necros use 10+ skill on one button in Wvw. Having their entire bomb on it. 

Some having that going on for like 8 years now. 

Hey buddy, I advise you to stop doing that macro.

[Monkey Brawler.7523]

It's a good question, I've considered it myself. Hope you get an official response.

[notebene.3190]

It would be really nice if they changed how the unlimited extractor works.

[Sindust.7059]

The examples you gave don't sound like they would provide much of an advantage, so it should be within the ToS. As long as you stay at the PC and watch what your char does. What you're describing is inventory management, so you're not gaining anything you didn't already own, and as such I see no reason why such macros should be illegal.

A much blurrier line would be the macro I wrote for a friend once. She just couldn't watch cooldowns on skills while paying attention to the fights, so she wanted a macro that would do the rotation for her. Since that would be obviously illegal, I wrote a macro that just pressed all skills that are part of her char's rotation at once when she used the macro's keybind, and one of the skills that's off cooldown would go off. Now that's an actual grey area, because by the letter of the policy it's fine, since it's one button press one action in game, combined with the fact that it basically activates a random skill, it's not really "chaining" skills either. But it definitely was much more than a QoL improvement for a build with a whack-a-mole rotation, because the part of learning the build before taking it into fights was basically skipped.

[Enko.6123]

5 hours ago, kharmin.7683 said:

OP if you really want clarification on the macro policy, then you will need to have a discussion with Anet.  No one here can give you an official answer unless they are marked as an Anet employee.

Anet told me to post to the forums.

This is the first line of my post:

  

17 hours ago, Enko.6123 said:

I am posting these questions to the forums as requested by a response from a support ticket.

 

Edited February 23 by Enko.6123

[Linken.6345]

16 minutes ago, Enko.6123 said:

Anet told me to post to the forums.

This is the first line of my post:

  

 

That is just a standard reply blurb line from support that everyone get mate.

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

The CS Team uses that boilerplate response when they have no tools/only Devs can address the issue.  They suggest posting on the Forums so that Devs can see the issue and, maybe, respond to said issue; by either posting or updating the game.  It's not something forum-users can remedy. 

[Sobx.1758]

56 minutes ago, Sindust.7059 said:

A much blurrier line would be the macro I wrote for a friend once. She just couldn't watch cooldowns on skills while paying attention to the fights, so she wanted a macro that would do the rotation for her. Since that would be obviously illegal, I wrote a macro that just pressed all skills that are part of her char's rotation at once when she used the macro's keybind, and one of the skills that's off cooldown would go off. Now that's an actual grey area, because by the letter of the policy it's fine, since it's one button press one action in game, combined with the fact that it basically activates a random skill, it's not really "chaining" skills either. But it definitely was much more than a QoL improvement for a build with a whack-a-mole rotation, because the part of learning the build before taking it into fights was basically skipped.

"and as long as it does not provide the user with an unfair advantage over other players"

Mashing one key instead of 7-10 which allowed you to skip learning the build at all doesn't provide you with an unfair advantage?

Edited February 23 by Sobx.1758