is cerus cm possible? [Merged]

[rotten.9753]

27 minutes ago, Noro.2879 said:

I don't see why not? There's a lot of imperfections in our kill. Ironing those out and optimizing builds a little bit more, a kill is definitely still possible. It's possible it wouldn't be as fast is all.

There's also other comps that could reasonably do the exact same strategy as showcased in that video. The comp was originally designed to try and take on empowered gluttony so we had a lot more defensive stats and skills across the whole team than was actually needed. If you don't believe it, why don't you go try yourself?

I'm close enough to the kill that swapping tactics is not really feasible. I'll wait for some other team to kill Cerus with mostly melee comp to believe your claims.

[Jumpin Lumpix.6108]

So my static has gotten to 50% on this fight and ive played as portal 1 and portal 2 condi virtuoso.  I've had to watch the snowcrows clear and various other clears for hours and its difficult finding a group of people with enough competent players to do the fight that are also motivated to stick with it. 

The fight is basically the same as the legendary mode only with less health.  What this means is that you're still very restrictive on what builds you can bring because the mechanics are so punishing and the entire fight is very anal-retentive.  What I mean is its like learning a dance from a Korean k-pop group, it honestly would be easier if the fight was set to music.  Every single second you have to be in a specific place in the arena, doing a specific thing and the exact specific time, and everyone has to know exactly what they're doing.  You can still technically clear it with one person dying, but in all honestly if anyone dies (especially early) its a wipe.  Whats ridiculous is the mechanics are so punishing that at least half of the stuff one shots you (specifically the green circles that appear under 3 random players, and then at least 3 other players need to stand in each one and the green circles cant overlap each other.) 

The green circles i feel are gimmicky because you can setup groups beforehand and say ok you stack on these 3 people each time, but if the green circles happen to spawn on 3 players who are all supposed to stack together, you end up running around like a chicken with your head cut off trying to figure out where to go for 5 seconds and then everyone instantly dies, usually because not enough people are standing in each circle.  I feel like for the CM this mechanic should be nerfed to do like 75%-90% health damage (or maybe just downed state) if you mess it up, and not instant death of the entire squad. 

The fight is very restrictive and requires so much perfect coordination that if you have a group that can do the CM, you can basically do the legendary mode., so i feel like some nerfs are needed to the mechanics, besides just nerfing the total health pool which negates some of the dps check.  Personally i dont like this kind of content (im doing it cuz i want the infusion) because it is so restrictive.  I feel like it limits builds and the player base  and i can tell that the second my group or any group clears this, nobody is going to want to touch this with a 10 foot pole.  All will be left is a couple of CM strike sellers selling the 10th spot for 10k gold and good luck to anyone trying to do it in the future.  Thats my take on it -

Thoughts?

Edited March 28 by Jumpin Lumpix.6108

[Randulf.7614]

We are going to end up with a lot of tiers for this fight at this rate…

Although now I want a rhythm based strike - Crypt of the GuildDancer!

[DanAlcedo.3281]

Do it like me and pretend the fight doesn't exist.

Wake me up if someone cleared the cm without Mesmers and a warrior on the roster. 

 

[Gendalfs.7521]

This CM is for sweatlords. Let them have their fun.

[Jumpin Lumpix.6108]

I dont think they should make content like this in the future, its bad for the game and the playerbase isn't large enough to support this kind of content.

[andreiblue.8231]

Either increase the rewards (right now I am part of multiple statics because I try to get the purple title, but afterwards I probably wont do even the normal CM in the current state) or nerf the normal CM because it is simply not worth doing weekly and I can't see it appearing on lfg each week cuz even experienced groups who have cleared it need multiple tries to complete it. Also change the 3 greens to not be random and instead be to the 3 players farthest from Cerus or maybe the 3 closest to the Regret aspect.

Edited March 30 by andreiblue.8231

[maxwelgm.4315]

On 3/28/2024 at 8:48 AM, Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:

So my static has gotten to 50% on this fight and ive played as portal 1 and portal 2 condi virtuoso.  I've had to watch the snowcrows clear and various other clears for hours and its difficult finding a group of people with enough competent players to do the fight that are also motivated to stick with it. 

The fight is basically the same as the legendary mode only with less health.  What this means is that you're still very restrictive on what builds you can bring because the mechanics are so punishing and the entire fight is very anal-retentive.  What I mean is its like learning a dance from a Korean k-pop group, it honestly would be easier if the fight was set to music.  Every single second you have to be in a specific place in the arena, doing a specific thing and the exact specific time, and everyone has to know exactly what they're doing.  You can still technically clear it with one person dying, but in all honestly if anyone dies (especially early) its a wipe.  Whats ridiculous is the mechanics are so punishing that at least half of the stuff one shots you (specifically the green circles that appear under 3 random players, and then at least 3 other players need to stand in each one and the green circles cant overlap each other.) 

The green circles i feel are gimmicky because you can setup groups beforehand and say ok you stack on these 3 people each time, but if the green circles happen to spawn on 3 players who are all supposed to stack together, you end up running around like a chicken with your head cut off trying to figure out where to go for 5 seconds and then everyone instantly dies, usually because not enough people are standing in each circle.  I feel like for the CM this mechanic should be nerfed to do like 75%-90% health damage (or maybe just downed state) if you mess it up, and not instant death of the entire squad. 

The fight is very restrictive and requires so much perfect coordination that if you have a group that can do the CM, you can basically do the legendary mode., so i feel like some nerfs are needed to the mechanics, besides just nerfing the total health pool which negates some of the dps check.  Personally i dont like this kind of content (im doing it cuz i want the infusion) because it is so restrictive.  I feel like it limits builds and the player base  and i can tell that the second my group or any group clears this, nobody is going to want to touch this with a 10 foot pole.  All will be left is a couple of CM strike sellers selling the 10th spot for 10k gold and good luck to anyone trying to do it in the future.  Thats my take on it -

Thoughts?

I don't know why this has so many confused reacts (which I guess is a mere "dislike" button in the forums). It would have made more sense for them to further differentiate legendary and "regular" CM rather than just changing HP - including changing the greens mechanic as just one example. The fact mechanics remain so similar just shows how much they had to salvage a mistake/bug rather than have something release that was carefully planned and tailored as an experience. I don't know why people can't be happy about the hard content while simultaneously acknowledging Anet didn't even plan for it at all and the hardcore crowd got not much more than a modest nod (a single, *accidentally* hard encounter throughout an entire expansion).

[rotten.9753]

They will nerf "normal" CM further because the Embodiment of Sin is pretty much impossible with how Gluttony works. That title is currently much harder than the "legendary" title. The "legendary" version is just a silly reaction of Anet because Cerus would have been killed much faster with the original 106m hp. They buffed the hp based on the players damage output.

[maxwelgm.4315]

41 minutes ago, rotten.9753 said:

They will nerf "normal" CM further because the Embodiment of Sin is pretty much impossible with how Gluttony works. That title is currently much harder than the "legendary" title. The "legendary" version is just a silly reaction of Anet because Cerus would have been killed much faster with the original 106m hp. They buffed the hp based on the players damage output.

GW2Efficiency (yes we're all aware it's only a slice of the population) has 83 people listed as completing "Legendary Conqueror of Cerus" and, indeed, there are no statistics shown whatsoever for "Apathetic" which is the Embodiment of Sin title achievement - I guess it's not far from saying the normal CM may get a nerf eventually then, since at least the legendary groups would have easily cleared the alternative title if HP was really the only previous source of the Embodiment of Sin title challenge.

[Jumpin Lumpix.6108]

On 4/4/2024 at 4:31 AM, maxwelgm.4315 said:

I don't know why this has so many confused reacts (which I guess is a mere "dislike" button in the forums). It would have made more sense for them to further differentiate legendary and "regular" CM rather than just changing HP - including changing the greens mechanic as just one example. The fact mechanics remain so similar just shows how much they had to salvage a mistake/bug rather than have something release that was carefully planned and tailored as an experience. I don't know why people can't be happy about the hard content while simultaneously acknowledging Anet didn't even plan for it at all and the hardcore crowd got not much more than a modest nod (a single, *accidentally* hard encounter throughout an entire expansion).

thats cuz this forum permits passive aggressive emoting, (the main reason they should be removed) they don't like me personally not what I said. Nothing I said was untrue or nonfactual about the fight. I've now reached sub 40% on CM Cereus and its almost solely the green circles mechanic that wipes us every single time. They probably could tune this fight down easily by making this mechanic more forgiving in some manner.

 

I figured id share my experience since its clear that so few people are doing this in the game (I rarely see groups doing the fight/advertising for the fight, and mostly everyone is done talking about it on this thread, none of which is good).  they do however, have the time and commitment to "downvote" my posts (which is amusing for me), but not to actually play the game and experiment with challenging content and/or post their experiences here.

Edited April 7 by Jumpin Lumpix.6108

[Cyninja.2954]

59 minutes ago, Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:

thats cuz this forum permits passive aggressive emoting, (the main reason they should be removed) they don't like me personally not what I said. Nothing I said was untrue or nonfactual about the fight. I've now reached sub 40% on CM Cereus and its almost solely the green circles mechanic that wipes us every single time. They probably could tune this fight down easily by making this mechanic more forgiving in some manner.

Groups have a choice here: those which struggle with the empowered green mechanic can choose to remove it by killing the appropriate add.

40% is about where the fight becomes interesting and actually ramps up the challenge with faster paced and overlapping mechanics as well as significantly more movement involved.

Quote

I figured id share my experience since its clear that so few people are doing this in the game (I rarely see groups doing the fight/advertising for the fight, and mostly everyone is done talking about it on this thread, none of which is good).  they do however, have the time and commitment to "downvote" my posts (which is amusing for me), but not to actually play the game and experiment with challenging content and/or post their experiences here.

Most players which are serious about clearing this fight are doing so in statics, hence why there is no advertising for it. It's the same as HT CM, which also went the discord and organized groups way.

Now one can argue about if this is the right level of difficulty. It does explain though why the perception is the way it is and talk about the fight has now shifted to the appropriate discords/communities.

As far as engagement: the total amount of players which have cleared the regular Temple of Febe CM has grown to 169 on gw2efficiency (as of this writing). This is nearly a doubling from the former 80-90 1 week ago. It's also in line time-frame wise for how long it takes on average for a group to clear the fight starting at new (aka the statics formed on release are clearing the fight). FYI: the amount of players clearing the regular CM is growing faster than back in the day for HT CM (which was also being sold at this point in time).

EDIT: and interesting side tidbit: the amount of players which have cleared the legendary version has grown to 128. Even this has grown faster than HT CM at this point in time.

Edited April 7 by Cyninja.2954

[Sobx.1758]

On 4/4/2024 at 10:31 AM, maxwelgm.4315 said:

I don't know why this has so many confused reacts (which I guess is a mere "dislike" button in the forums). It would have made more sense for them to further differentiate legendary and "regular" CM rather than just changing HP - including changing the greens mechanic as just one example. The fact mechanics remain so similar just shows how much they had to salvage a mistake/bug rather than have something release that was carefully planned and tailored as an experience. I don't know why people can't be happy about the hard content while simultaneously acknowledging Anet didn't even plan for it at all and the hardcore crowd got not much more than a modest nod (a single, *accidentally* hard encounter throughout an entire expansion).

Maybe because he's complaining about the fight being "like learning a dance from a Korean k-pop group" and 2 sentences later he's complaining that you can't set up 3 specific groups because some parts of the fights -like assigning circles- are random.If mechanics being pre-planned are bad, but using your eyes and counting to 3 during the fight is also bad then what's supposed to be good?

[Lucinellia.9247]

On 4/7/2024 at 6:59 AM, Cyninja.2954 said:

As far as engagement: the total amount of players which have cleared the regular Temple of Febe CM has grown to 169 on gw2efficiency (as of this writing). This is nearly a doubling from the former 80-90 1 week ago. It's also in line time-frame wise for how long it takes on average for a group to clear the fight starting at new (aka the statics formed on release are clearing the fight). FYI: the amount of players clearing the regular CM is growing faster than back in the day for HT CM (which was also being sold at this point in time).

EDIT: and interesting side tidbit: the amount of players which have cleared the legendary version has grown to 128. Even this has grown faster than HT CM at this point in time.

Meanwhile, Embodiment of Sin doesn't have any clear as far as I know. HT CM was being cleared with the title originally associated with the fight, this isn't.

Whether or not that is considered healthy for the game is a matter up for debate, but I'm going to hazard that it isn't. SotO instanced PvE content has been terrible for the "midcore" and the base version of ToF CM should be adjusted for that.

[maxwelgm.4315]

23 hours ago, Lucinellia.9247 said:

Meanwhile, Embodiment of Sin doesn't have any clear as far as I know. HT CM was being cleared with the title originally associated with the fight, this isn't.

Whether or not that is considered healthy for the game is a matter up for debate, but I'm going to hazard that it isn't. SotO instanced PvE content has been terrible for the "midcore" and the base version of ToF CM should be adjusted for that.

Why isn't embodiment of sin the colored title 🙂 GW2Efficiency does show no one completed it yet, and I can't see any PoVs in the discords I'm part of, not even many attempt logs. And the angry poster above was right: the fight is the same with only health differences, so the title condition should actually be harder due to forcing players into empowering nasty debuffs like Gluttony. EDIT: I have just found a few hours before I posted this one NA group has completed the Embodiment of Sin title. They had to use trailblazer scourges with parasitic contagion and a deadeye spamming immobilize, they also used several epidemics to handle adds. In other words a whole lot of utility which IMO is good but now we face the fact it's actually more punishing than the legendary encounter anyway.

Edited April 9 by maxwelgm.4315

[Jumpin Lumpix.6108]

On 4/7/2024 at 1:59 AM, Cyninja.2954 said:

Groups have a choice here: those which struggle with the empowered green mechanic can choose to remove it by killing the appropriate add.

40% is about where the fight becomes interesting and actually ramps up the challenge with faster paced and overlapping mechanics as well as significantly more movement involved.

Most players which are serious about clearing this fight are doing so in statics, hence why there is no advertising for it. It's the same as HT CM, which also went the discord and organized groups way.

Now one can argue about if this is the right level of difficulty. It does explain though why the perception is the way it is and talk about the fight has now shifted to the appropriate discords/communities.

As far as engagement: the total amount of players which have cleared the regular Temple of Febe CM has grown to 169 on gw2efficiency (as of this writing). This is nearly a doubling from the former 80-90 1 week ago. It's also in line time-frame wise for how long it takes on average for a group to clear the fight starting at new (aka the statics formed on release are clearing the fight). FYI: the amount of players clearing the regular CM is growing faster than back in the day for HT CM (which was also being sold at this point in time).

EDIT: and interesting side tidbit: the amount of players which have cleared the legendary version has grown to 128. Even this has grown faster than HT CM at this point in time.

I find it kind of funny that people are always quoting not wanting the devs to take away precious development resources for things like more cosmetics/dyeable weapons/swappable auras or content thats like jumping puzzles or more infusions, and instead they say they want anet to focus on content thats geared towards everyone, and yet a lot of the same people i see making this argument are in this thread defending content like this which only 200 people can/want to clear and everyone else won't touch it with a 10 foot pole. 

yah good allocation of resources, an entire choreographed fight which tons of dev hours were spent to create, so that 200 to maybe 500 people will ever complete lol.

Edited April 15 by Jumpin Lumpix.6108

[Cyninja.2954]

3 hours ago, Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:

I find it kind of funny that people are always quoting not wanting the devs to take away precious development resources for things like more cosmetics/dyeable weapons/swappable auras or content thats like jumping puzzles or more infusions, and instead they say they want anet to focus on content thats geared towards everyone, and yet a lot of the same people i see making this argument are in this thread defending content like this which only 200 people can/want to clear and everyone else won't touch it with a 10 foot pole. 

Are you sure? What or rather when was the last jumping puzzle added? I must have missed all the threads on wanting more jumping puzzles over the years.

How many threads are made about not wanting resources shifted from cosmetics (which are often at least in part gem store related)? Most are focused around wanting cosmetics via game play versus the gem store.

As far as niche content, everything in this game is niche content, even story and open world metas. Easy to follow for players who keep track of completion rates. The only question is of how niche exactly.

3 hours ago, Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:

yah good allocation of resources, an entire choreographed fight which tons of dev hours were spent to create, so that 200 to maybe 500 people will ever complete lol.

Yeah, still makes it wildly more successful than say Gaya Delves or some other select maps which are basically dead now.

This is aspirational content which, while maybe slightly overtuned compared to the amount of instanced content delivered, is actually successful at holding player interest for an extended period of time.

It's the equivalent of Heart of Thorns on release: a lot of whining, a lot of complaining, a lot of reworks, and then years down the road praised as the best expansion ever (after sufficient power creep).

The reason I was drawing examples to HT CM is because essentially that fight was similar to Cerus, only better executed (and just as buggy if not more). It has new groups of players start practicing it even now, and has become more accessible over time.

Meanwhile 12-24 months down the road, fights like Cosmic Observatory or Icebrood Construct will become even more disliked (Construct is not that disliked, given its the "get your free weekly strike" go-to fight. Fraenir of Jormag might be a better example), only part of some players grind routine, drawing near no enjoment out of the actual encounter.

[Jumpin Lumpix.6108]

23 hours ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

Are you sure? What or rather when was the last jumping puzzle added? I must have missed all the threads on wanting more jumping puzzles over the years.

How many threads are made about not wanting resources shifted from cosmetics (which are often at least in part gem store related)? Most are focused around wanting cosmetics via game play versus the gem store.

As far as niche content, everything in this game is niche content, even story and open world metas. Easy to follow for players who keep track of completion rates. The only question is of how niche exactly.

Yeah, still makes it wildly more successful than say Gaya Delves or some other select maps which are basically dead now.

This is aspirational content which, while maybe slightly overtuned compared to the amount of instanced content delivered, is actually successful at holding player interest for an extended period of time.

It's the equivalent of Heart of Thorns on release: a lot of whining, a lot of complaining, a lot of reworks, and then years down the road praised as the best expansion ever (after sufficient power creep).

The reason I was drawing examples to HT CM is because essentially that fight was similar to Cerus, only better executed (and just as buggy if not more). It has new groups of players start practicing it even now, and has become more accessible over time.

Meanwhile 12-24 months down the road, fights like Cosmic Observatory or Icebrood Construct will become even more disliked (Construct is not that disliked, given its the "get your free weekly strike" go-to fight. Fraenir of Jormag might be a better example), only part of some players grind routine, drawing near no enjoment out of the actual encounter.

slightly overtuned lol, im up to about 20hrs now on this fight, best is 32%, its too difficult relying on everyone in the group to play perfect and know what to do, (and by "know what to do," its like, this portal needs to be dropped here, at this exact time at this specific location or else its a wipe, pretty much guaranteed) its just terrible content and its beyond overtuned and anal retentive.  I mean snowcrows clear was what day 8, 10 hrs per day so thats 80 hours lol guess i have a ways to go.

but yah seems like balanced content for sure that everyone will totally aspire towards and eventually beat 🙃

Edited April 16 by Jumpin Lumpix.6108

[Shadowmoon.7986]

I think the best way to make thr fight more enjoyable while preserving the fight difficult for lcm and eos would be to change the green mechanic to the follow.

1 person in green, that player is instant dead.

2 people in green, both players are downed with a 30 sec dps down debuff.

3 people in green success.

This would allow prog groups to continue the fight after the fail, which how tight the dps check is for eos and lcm would ultimately end with a wipe, BUT would allow player to keep learning the mechanics of latter parts of the fight as they progress.

This will make proging to be like learning a piece of music, where you get to work on the entire peice and get better over time instead of stopping once you play one wrong note and starting from the beginning. 

 

Edited April 19 by Shadowmoon.7986

[Juan.6124]

As someone who just killed legendary mode with empowered walls I recommend Anet to change the challenge mode more than just reduce the hp to make it more accessible. First and foremost, the resistance from Malice should run out way sooner to allow squads to immobilize without having to place it at the edge of the map with portals.

Edited April 24 by Juan.6124

[Tharan.9085]

On 4/16/2024 at 7:31 AM, Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:

slightly overtuned lol, im up to about 20hrs now on this fight, best is 32%, its too difficult relying on everyone in the group to play perfect and know what to do, (and by "know what to do," its like, this portal needs to be dropped here, at this exact time at this specific location or else its a wipe, pretty much guaranteed) its just terrible content and its beyond overtuned and anal retentive.  I mean snowcrows clear was what day 8, 10 hrs per day so thats 80 hours lol guess i have a ways to go.

but yah seems like balanced content for sure that everyone will totally aspire towards and eventually beat 🙃

If you only got to 32% after 20h your group is just bad

[Chyro.1462]

On 4/24/2024 at 7:11 PM, Juan.6124 said:

As someone who just killed legendary mode with empowered walls I recommend Anet to change the challenge mode more than just reduce the hp to make it more accessible. First and foremost, the resistance from Malice should run out way sooner to allow squads to immobilize without having to place it at the edge of the map with portals.

Just curious. Malice are the player-mimic adds right? If they get resistance that prevents immob, wouldn't it be an option to boonstrip or boon corrupt them?

[Cyninja.2954]

3 minutes ago, Chyro.1462 said:

Just curious. Malice are the player-mimic adds right? If they get resistance that prevents immob, wouldn't it be an option to boonstrip or boon corrupt them?

The resistance they have can not be stripped or removed except via having it run out.

[Chyro.1462]

Huh. Are there other situations in the game where boons are unstrippable? Kinda seems like bad design if the game just ignores its own gameplay rules for the sake of difficulty, if there is nothing indicating or explaining why boons can't be stripped from that enemy.

[Juan.6124]

3 hours ago, Chyro.1462 said:

Huh. Are there other situations in the game where boons are unstrippable? Kinda seems like bad design if the game just ignores its own gameplay rules for the sake of difficulty, if there is nothing indicating or explaining why boons can't be stripped from that enemy.

The indication that it can't be stripped is that the icon does not have the white boarder representing its remaining duration.

Edited May 14 by Juan.6124