Some feedback on the Rifle updates

[Ravenwulfe.5360]

Friendly Fire - My only complaint is it has a long cast time, like obnoxiously long. To the point I am not even really bothering to use it most of the time, which is a shame since a steady heal is what is needed on a mesmer. I would suggest speeding up the cast time on this.

Journey - The Cooldown is just a smidge too long. Maybe make it four seconds otherwise I haven't had any real problem with it for clone generation.

Phantasmal Sharpshooter - Cast time again is the issue. It says 3/4 second cast but you are waiting an additional half second or more for the clone to act and deliver the attack. In this instance if the clone is going to take time to aim then the cast time should be pretty negligible if not instant, especially compared to other defiance breaks in our kits. The CD on this should probably be reduced as well, given this is another way to generate clones reliably as well, and given that will likely be the use it gets over it's defiance break. In Summary, reduce the cast time, reduce the recharge on it, and if anything reduce how much defiance break it gives since I doubt anyone using this weapon to its fullest will be using it for that feature.

[ShadowKatt.6740]

1 hour ago, Ravenwulfe.5360 said:

I would suggest...

You can suggest all you want, NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO ONE at Anet is listening.

[FlowingWater.6193]

While @ShadowKatt.6740 put it in slightly more rude terms, they're unfortunately correct. A LOT of feedback was given during and after the beta trials, both here and in the reddit megathreads, but none of it was used which is an absolute shame. I wouldn't get hopes up any worthwhile changes in the coming 6-12 months.

In its current state, it's still the clunkiest of all. Heck, the rifle2 animation is still bugged visually.

I'm somewhat confident that they had to prioritize the resources they had available to them as a few other weapons, like engineer shortbow, needed much more work to actually make them playable. Rifle mesmer is technically playable in a niche setting compared to those originally, but that doesn't make it a fun weapon nor a properly fleshed out one.

Edited February 28 by FlowingWater.6193
Added niche in last sentence because it's only plyable for heal-chrono in instanced content

[Mevelios.4809]

8 hours ago, Ravenwulfe.5360 said:

Phantasmal Sharpshooter - Cast time again is the issue. It says 3/4 second cast but you are waiting an additional half second or more for the clone to act and deliver the attack. In this instance if the clone is going to take time to aim then the cast time should be pretty negligible if not instant, especially compared to other defiance breaks in our kits.

Replace sharpshooter with Mage, observations are similar. Almost thought I was in the wrong topic!

[Teknomancer.4895]

It's OKish for jumping into a meta event. I was basically just firing into the blob as they stacked on stuff in Nayos and it seemed to do its job reasonably well. Firing at downed players helps them get back up so that's useful. However the phantasm straight-up sucks, and skill 5 is just as pointless as it was before.

The fact that they added a flash effect to it is either a bad joke or a middle finger (probably both tbh), when it's designed to be fired into a group where there is already so much particle spam it's not even visible. There's no way to tell if the effect itself is worthwhile, because no one will ever even see the stupid thing to try it out.

Another tricky thing is that it's very clearly intended for Chrono rather than any other spec, it also seems intended to combo with wells considering the projectile finisher on 1 (the field on 3 is too short-lived). The issue is that the rifle is range 1200, wells are range 900. You can't really keep the range you want while a non-offense weapon is equipped, but if you move to the weapon's range then you can't drop your combo fields in the target area.

I'll carry it for occasional meta event use while I do other OW stuffs, but I don't really see using it much. It's a niche option and little else.

[draxynnic.3719]

20 hours ago, FlowingWater.6193 said:

I'm somewhat confident that they had to prioritize the resources they had available to them as a few other weapons, like engineer shortbow, needed much more work to actually make them playable. Rifle mesmer is technically playable in a niche setting compared to those originally, but that doesn't make it a fun weapon nor a properly fleshed out one.

That's my suspicion as well. Engineer shortbow was so obviously terrible that they needed a pretty big rework just to bring it up to a level that's... still pretty bad. Everything else seems to have had scraps and bandaids. Mind you, it would have been nice if they'd admitted this rather than giving the impression that they completely ignored most of the feedback.

[FlowingWater.6193]

4 hours ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

That's my suspicion as well. Engineer shortbow was so obviously terrible that they needed a pretty big rework just to bring it up to a level that's... still pretty bad. Everything else seems to have had scraps and bandaids. Mind you, it would have been nice if they'd admitted this rather than giving the impression that they completely ignored most of the feedback.

Yeah, some of the weapons seem like a rush job at this point (and so does the SotO expansion, but that's more of a personal opinion).

Arenanet is still very far from using skeleton crews and going into maintenance mode, but their earnings reports and the way they've scheduled their content (IBS getting shafted midway, SotO having to be divided into multiple parts) along with getting basically no marketing money thrown at them from Nexon doesn't exactly inspire confidence. I have no doubt that there are some really passionate people working there, but you can only put out so many fires with a limited number of hands.

[Alva.4590]

On 2/28/2024 at 11:32 AM, FlowingWater.6193 said:

Rifle mesmer is technically playable in a niche setting compared to those originally, but that doesn't make it a fun weapon nor a properly fleshed out one.

Rifle Heal Chrono is a very viable build in fractals, raids and strikes. You can even easily tank on it in raids including CM's. It's not at all technically playable in a niche setting and it is properly fleshed out. Studying and understanding the skills is all there is to it. 

[Teknomancer.4895]

5 hours ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

That's my suspicion as well. Engineer shortbow was so obviously terrible that they needed a pretty big rework just to bring it up to a level that's... still pretty bad. Everything else seems to have had scraps and bandaids. Mind you, it would have been nice if they'd admitted this rather than giving the impression that they completely ignored most of the feedback.

You say that like those are mutually exclusive options. I'm pretty sure it was both of those things.

11 minutes ago, Alva.4590 said:

Rifle Heal Chrono is a very viable build in fractals, raids and strikes. You can even easily tank on it in raids including CM's. It's not at all technically playable in a niche setting and it is properly fleshed out. Studying and understanding the skills is all there is to it. 

Keep sucking down that copium, sooner or later it'll work, right? Studying and understanding the skills isn't useful if the skills themselves aren't useful. Yes, skills 1-3 are basically fine the way they are; I would have designed them differently but as they are, they're functional and useful. Skill 4 is just bad especially when compared to all other phantasm skills, and 5 is a completely wasted skill slot. They decided the problem with 5 was that it didn't have enough particle spam so they added some -- for a weapon designed to be fired directly into the particle spam blob where its insignificant little "flash effect" will be instantly drowned out with everything else happening on the screen.

[apharma.3741]

1 hour ago, Alva.4590 said:

Rifle Heal Chrono is a very viable build in fractals, raids and strikes. You can even easily tank on it in raids including CM's. It's not at all technically playable in a niche setting and it is properly fleshed out. Studying and understanding the skills is all there is to it. 

Giving only 1 example in 1 specific area where it is good is niche. If you're trying to disprove what he said you're doing as good a job as ANet in regard to balancing. Not agreeing or disagreeing, just showing that you've only proven their point.

At topic.
One of the biggest issues I have with rifle is it doesn't fit in with mesmer's play style very well and it feels like a shoe horned approach to providing support, especially in the context of the changes they made a few months ago to inspiration and chaos trait lines. It has no mobility on it for the mesmer, no defence for the mesmer, and the self healing is focused on 2 skills which are not big enough to get allies too. Heal on auto while nice, the damage side isn't too good as mesmer doesn't have huge damage modifiers to stack like other classes.

I'd like to see the damage on auto increase a little, about 10% should do it.
I'd like to see you able to swap places with your singularity from singularity shot, it's not often I find the need to portal and ally out as opposed to teleport away from thieves.
Journey needs a lower CD in WvW, play around with the healing/damage modifiers if needed but constant clone generation would be useful.
I'd like to see boon removal added to the phantasm but we all know how much some people on the balance team seem to hate boon removal. This wouldn't do anything to the PvE performance but would help PvP and WvW.

Evaluate after the changes.

[Alva.4590]

Did you two (last repliers) truly try out mesmer in instanced content? I have no issue healing allies and myself even if every damage is 100% facetanked. You can even outheal Qadim 2 carpet which usually downs you within 1-2 seconds. If you think the skills aren't useful for healing and all then you truly just don't understand the weapon. Sounds like a skill issue to me and not understanding the how skills, traits etc interact. 
Also: it was meant as support weapon and not as a DPS weapon. 

[Teknomancer.4895]

1 hour ago, Alva.4590 said:

If you think the skills aren't useful for healing and all then you truly just don't understand the weapon. Sounds like a skill issue to me and not understanding the how skills, traits etc interact. 

Nobody is complaining about the healing. The complaints are about the sorry state of skills 4 & 5, the complete lack of mobility, and more.

What we got is the equivalent of a reasonably decent MH weapon (the healing skills 1-3) with a total garbage OH weapon (skills 4 & 5) welded onto it.

I suspect that what was originally intended was a MH/OH combo, but that got changed to be the 2-hand rifle so they were just mashed together. Starting off conceptually as two separate weapons would explain its disjointed feel.

Edited February 29 by Teknomancer.4895

[ZephidelGRS.9520]

Technically Rifle 4 is the strongest CC on a Mesmer weapon (2 x 200, 1s between ammo. And no, Magic Bullet doesn't do the CC amount it lists) on a short cooldown (20s for full ammo recharge, 16s under Alac. Very useful in Silent Surf any modes).

And the selling point of Rifle 5 has always been the huge barrier and the free Resistance, why are people so obsessed with the portal part lol. That makes Rifle loaded with everything desired from an organized PvE support: big CC,  fat heals, loaded boons and huge barrier. Results speak for itself, Rifle Chronos are invading all kinds of instanced content.

Sure it could be better. But it's not just playable, it's darn near busted that in fact, the numbers were nerfed compared to beta version but it's still that strong. 

Edited February 29 by ZephidelGRS.9520

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

ANet: We are happy to see positive feedback around the weapon.

[ShadowKatt.6740]

1 hour ago, ZephidelGRS.9520 said:

And the selling point of Rifle 5 has always been the huge barrier and the free Resistance, why are people so obsessed with the portal part lol.

That's not hard to answer. Despite the great degree of homoginzation that is already present in GW2 what makes the professions different? If you're a warrior....absolutely nothing. Sorry Warriors, you pulled the short bus. But for Elementalists they have their elements, for Thieves they have their initiative (or rather, they don't have cool downs...like at all). For us Mesmers, we have a few things chief among them being clones, but another are our portals.

Yes, thieves have a weaker, somewhat more combat focused portal they can use since Shadowstep is a bit part of their kit, but we can teleport. And part of that are our portals. These have been there since DAY....uh, less than 1 actually since Portal Entre/Exhunt was showcased in the trailer before the game even came out. It is a core part of WHO WE ARE. So when they gave us this rifle and said "Hey, you can shoot portals!" every mesmer players collectively went "YAY!" and then they explained that it's actually a secondary ability to a support skill....and it's only one use.....and it's only one way, that's a literal slap in the face to every mesmer player and it's a slap that gets harder the longer you've been here. If you've been here since the GW2 beta, they may as well have backhanded you through a wall and then asked YOU if you'd like another.

I mean, think about it. And I really do mean this, really think about it. Think about all the ways that portals could be so severly overpowered. They already ignore pathing in this game, which even Blink won't do. I suggested that Portal needed to last longer, like 20-30 seconds OR until 20 uses because as it stands now it's basically impossible to wear out the portal before it times out. But what could you do to make portals better? And then ask yourself why aren't our portals better when they're a cornerstone of who we are and what we do, and then ask yourself again why they put this kitten poor cheap imitation on the second activation of Rifle 5, and maybe you'll start to understand why so many people are downright insulted right now.

[Teknomancer.4895]

1 hour ago, ZephidelGRS.9520 said:

why are people so obsessed with the portal part lol

Because that's the main feature of the thing that ANet is choosing to emphasize. Based on the promo material, the boons are intended to be extras, not the primary function of skill 5.

The thing it's designed for doesn't work worth anything, but hey you get some boons! Sorry for the fake hype!

It's only half the skill it's supposed to be, that's why.

Edited February 29 by Teknomancer.4895

[Alva.4590]

5 hours ago, Teknomancer.4895 said:

The complaints are about the sorry state of skills 4 & 5, the complete lack of mobility, and more.

Skill 4 is a very good CC skill and 5 gives barrier or a one ally portal. And why would you even need more mobility on mesmer? Most rifle skills are AOE and if you need to move you can still use blink? 
Please do elaborate on the "and more" as well. 

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

17 minutes ago, Alva.4590 said:

Skill 4 is a very good CC skill and 5 gives barrier or a one ally portal. And why would you even need more mobility on mesmer? Most rifle skills are AOE and if you need to move you can still use blink? 
Please do elaborate on the "and more" as well. 

Skill 4 is beyond garbage. It takes more time firing the stun than the stun duration, no one ever will get it.
Skill 5 is garbage, barrier is meh the ally portal is ultra situational.

Yeah you're right why would you want more mobility on a profession who has no access to swiftness/superspeed and has one port especially on a ranged weapon with no means to keep enimies at bay.

Edited February 29 by Lincolnbeard.1735

[Teknomancer.4895]

Just tested cc/breakbar damage on the golem, and while it's close to matching Magic Bullet, the Phantasmal Sharpshooter still comes in dead last:

Average golem with 4M HP and a 10-sec breakbar, no additional conditions or boons other than what happens during combat. The final ranking:

1. Signet of Humility
2. Gravity Well
3. Magic Bullet
4. Phantasmal Sharpshooter

It's adequate. Ish.

[ShadowKatt.6740]

53 minutes ago, Teknomancer.4895 said:

Just tested cc/breakbar damage on the golem, and while it's close to matching Magic Bullet, the Phantasmal Sharpshooter still comes in dead last:

Average golem with 4M HP and a 10-sec breakbar, no additional conditions or boons other than what happens during combat. The final ranking:

1. Signet of Humility
2. Gravity Well
3. Magic Bullet
4. Phantasmal Sharpshooter

It's adequate. Ish.

You should have tested Diversion/Time Sink as well. Just speaking for myself, after Signet of Humility that's my go-to for breaking defiance, although only if I have to. My clones are more valuable to me alive generally. It's also worth noting, and I don't know the numbers here, that Chaos Storm has CC as well and I use that for at least tagging defiance bars for the WV dailies. Greatsword also has a decent knockback as well, although I don't use greatswords and I try not to get that close in the first place.

[Teknomancer.4895]

Well I didn't want the video to be too long, it's already boring at under 2 minutes. 😜

Diversion (defiance break 150) and Time Sink (defiance break 100) are great as instant-cast interrupts, but if I want that bar down NOW I go for the maximum options.

The Sharpshooter does competitive breakbar damage compared to Magic Bullet, but as @Lincolnbeard.1735 pointed out, it's so slow that it's worthless as an interrupt and you can see how slow it is up there.

Chaos Storm does do a brief daze on the first strike, but it's really more of an interrupt than anything that will do serious breakbar damage.

[Zenith.7301]

The autoattacks are so slow for how little they hit...

[draxynnic.3719]

15 hours ago, Teknomancer.4895 said:

You say that like those are mutually exclusive options. I'm pretty sure it was both of those things.

Hard to say without reading their minds, but I think limited time and having a priority order is a sufficient explanation. ArenaNet does have a tendency to eventually fix something out of the blue that people thought was being ignored, so I think a big part of the problem is that they've grown increasingly averse to acknowledging a problem until they already have a solution ready. Which, mind you, is still not a good look.

I do have to say that there's a degree to which if there's a priority order, mesmer rifle isn't at the top. Most of the complaints I see are based on people wanting it to be a DPS weapon (mesmer already has four ranged weapons that can be used for DPS, buff those if needed) or overexaggerating the importance of the portal (it's cute, but it's not what the weapon is for). Mesmer rifle is designed for a specific purpose, and from what I've seen from the people using it for that purpose, it does it well.

EDIT Apart from being a complete failure for support mirage, that is.

Edited March 1 by draxynnic.3719

[Ark.2694]

6 hours ago, Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

Yeah you're right why would you want more mobility on a profession who has no access to swiftness/superspeed and has one port

Focus and shield gives Swiftness. There is a chronomancer well, inspiration trait, and elite skill that gives super-speed.  Chronomancer has a passive speed boost as a minor trait.  Mirage can take sword and leap with every dodge (I have a set just for this, super useful.)  Staff has a very low cd blink. Blink (the utility) is one of the lowest cooldown, longest range ports in the game.  Finally, portal is crazy mobility for your entire team that is currently being abused in the new CM. 

In what world do you live that MESMER is not mobile?

[ZephidelGRS.9520]

5 hours ago, Teknomancer.4895 said:

Just tested cc/breakbar damage on the golem, and while it's close to matching Magic Bullet, the Phantasmal Sharpshooter still comes in dead last:

But in your testing you didn't fire both of Sharpshooter charges. Notice how the 2nd ammo becomes available immediately after you press the 1st, and if you press both, then Rifle indeed does the most CC amount from a weapon. 1 Sharpshooter charge will do exactly the same amount as Magic Bullet (200) as shown in your vid. 10s is enough time to fire both charges.

And Sharpshooter has a relatively short cooldown, it isn't unreasonable to assume both charges will be available during any CC phases.